Video: McCain righteously demolished by … Joe Scarborough?

posted at 10:00 am on January 31, 2008 by Allahpundit

What’s most impressive is how long, yet still incomplete, the list of grievances is and how effortlessly he calls it up from memory. A testament, surely, to how deeply McCain’s betrayals have seeped into the conservative consciousness. VDH is doing his best to rehabilitate Maverick for the sake of the war, but he’d be better off waiting until we’ve reconciled ourselves to our fate before trying this. At this stage he’s probably alienating more readers than he’s converting.

This is a pithy piece of mythbusting, though:

Even stranger, the various Republican candidates began invoking Ronald Reagan’s three-decade-old tenure as the new litmus test of the times — apparently to show how moderates like the wayward McCain fell far short of the Gipper’s true-blue conservatism.

Were conservatives supposed to forget that a maverick Reagan raised some taxes, signed an illegal-alien amnesty bill, expanded government, appointed centrist Supreme Court justices, advocated nuclear disarmament, sold arms to Iran, and pulled out of Lebanon — but to remember only that John McCain was not for the original Bush tax cuts or once supported the administration’s offer of a quasi-amnesty?

True, but not only does that gloss over key differences, some of it’s attributable to the reality of being pulled to the center while in office by having to compromise with a Democratic Congress. Where’s Maverick going to end up when he’s already starting from the center? Click the image to watch.

scar-mccain.jpg


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Scarborough and I got off to a bad start when he did the whole “work the pole” thing with Fred’s wife. But since then he’s delivered some fair commentary, even being critical of NBC from time to time.

AbaddonsReign on January 31, 2008 at 10:04 AM

I’d also point out that A) Reagan called it amnesty, B) It wasn’t quite known whether or not it would work.

Now it’s known that amnesty failed.

amerpundit on January 31, 2008 at 10:04 AM

i’m sorry, but Scarborough doesn’t have alot of room to talk himself.

jp on January 31, 2008 at 10:04 AM

AP, he was anti-McCain HEAVY in Florida. He’s from Florida and he was hoping that he could get Romney the nomination. He didn’t ‘just come up with’ this list of issues with McCain. This list was honed over the last week when he stumped for Romney on his show. After the debate, he said ‘Romney won, Romney is going to be the nominee’.

He’s in the tank for Mitt. He’s been anti-McCain for at least a week by now. I would put about as much credibility in what he says as Hannity talking about the ruDe.

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:06 AM

AP, he was anti-McCain HEAVY in Florida. He’s from Florida and he was hoping that he could get Romney the nomination. He didn’t ‘just come up with’ this list of issues with McCain. This list was honed over the last week when he stumped for Romney on his show. After the debate, he said ‘Romney won, Romney is going to be the nominee’.

He’s in the tank for Mitt. He’s been anti-McCain for at least a week by now. I would put about as much credibility in what he says as Hannity talking about the ruDe.

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:06 AM

HE IS ALSO COMPLETELLY CORRECT !

stenwin77 on January 31, 2008 at 10:08 AM

Cry me a river Joe. The days of you and the rest of social conservatives telling us how to live our lives are done. Buh-bye.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:09 AM

I could go over a list of things that make Mitt not conservative too. . . but then I’d be labeled a ‘bigot’ against Mormons. . . so yep, Mitt’s got that minority victimhood so you can’t criticize thing going like the D’s too.

But of course, McCain is the only ‘liberal’ in the R party, right?

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Thacker,
It doesn’t matter who is saying it, it matters what he is saying, and whether or not it is factual. On that, there is no non-laughable argument.

kflynn on January 31, 2008 at 10:11 AM

Cranky O-L-D John McDole may think he will win in November with the independents and moderate Dems. But (MY FRIENDS) they will vote for 1 – Hillary, 2 -Osama 3 – Both.

John CANNOT win sans the Conservative vote and this conservative will NEVER, EVER vote for John McDole.

stenwin77 on January 31, 2008 at 10:11 AM

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:06 AM

So, that takes away from the fact that Joe’s right about all of the things he just said?

Cry me a river Joe. The days of you and the rest of social conservatives telling us how to live our lives are done. Buh-bye.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:09 AM

Huh?

amerpundit on January 31, 2008 at 10:11 AM

On Monday morning, Joe said “My feeling is on the street and my people in Florida are telling me that it’s going to break Romney. Nice try Joe, he only lost by 100,000 votes.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:11 AM

Atta’ boy Joe. Tell it like it is.
I hope Fred!! hasn’t put away his running shoes just yet. I’m still praying for an open convention with Fred !! walking away with the nonination. Don’t laugh me off – there is always hope until it is all over! That is the only thing that will save the party.

OBX Pete on January 31, 2008 at 10:12 AM

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:11 AM

We were hearing reports from media outlets in the Panhandle and some southern areas that it was going to break for Romney.

amerpundit on January 31, 2008 at 10:12 AM

The days of you and the rest of social conservatives telling us how to live our lives are done. Buh-bye.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:09 AM

WOAH! How did this come up? Who’s upset at the social conservatives? I’m certainly expecting McCain to be more of a social conservative than Mitt (based on record) – Mitt actually distanced himself from a pro-life organization that endorsed him when he was running for governor of Mass. Mitt said that he wished they didn’t endorse him and he didn’t accept their endorsement. So wow, some ‘conservative’ who doesn’t want pro-life organizations supporting him.

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:13 AM

Actually, Joe was just getting warmed up. He may be on an obnoxious network, that is the virtual mouthpiece of the DNC and Daily Kos, but he is one of the few who actually knows what the conservative base is looking for.

Oh, and btw, I have changed my opinion of Mika Brzy. She is nothing but an obnoxious, liberal twit with a moussed-up hairdo.

Always Right on January 31, 2008 at 10:14 AM

I’ve got a feeling that Moderates have taken control of the Republican Party and now outnumber conservatives. How can I prove such a notion? I know, hold an election and tally the votes.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:14 AM

Sales to Iran was the Shah

Starlink on January 31, 2008 at 10:06 AM

No, the Shah was dead and Iran in the grip of the ayatollahs by the time Reagan took office. Selling arms to Iran was a part of the whole “arms-for-hostages” thing in the 80s…

Frozen Tex on January 31, 2008 at 10:16 AM

Cry me a river Joe. The days of you and the rest of social conservatives telling us how to live our lives are done. Buh-bye.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:09 AM

Since McCain isn’t economically conservative either, I guess you still lose…if you care about that sort of thing.

And Democrats are the ones telling you how to live your life…economic freedom is the most basic of all freedoms. Everything else springs from that.

But I guess none of that really matters to a McCain supporter anyway.

Asher on January 31, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Frozen Tex on January 31, 2008 at 10:16 AM

Factually correct.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Is that why Phil Graham the most conservative fiscal leader in the nation is endorsing McCain?

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:18 AM

I’ve got a feeling that Moderates have taken control of the Republican Party and now outnumber conservatives. How can I prove such a notion? I know, hold an election and tally the votes.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:14 AM

We’ll see how that election goes in November. Old Man doesn’t stand a chance which is why MSM is propping him up.

stenwin77 on January 31, 2008 at 10:19 AM

He could go on.

A conservative doesn’t push forth legislation in conjunction with an “Impeach Bush”-happy senator from my state demanding that 527s have their first amendment rights unconstitutionally removed within a month of an election.

A conservative doesn’t support the continuation of a ban on weapons based on modifications that, if removed, would make barely make the weapon any less deadly.

A conservative, regardless of his history, doesn’t rule out the use of interrogation techniques by intelligence services when in a time of war and when he is well aware that such tactics have been proven to save lives because of the information they supply.

Finally, a conservative does not run for the office of the presidency after admitting that he doesn’t f***ing understand economics!!!

MadisonConservative on January 31, 2008 at 10:19 AM

I noticed Derb is trumpeting that McCain finished near bottom of his class at the Naval Academy and is thus “incompetent”.

someone needs to point out to that dork that General Patton finished at the bottom of his class at West Point.

jp on January 31, 2008 at 10:20 AM

Joe may have got this one right but he is still a disgrace for the things he has said on msnbc.Even a broke clock is right 2 times a day

thmcbb on January 31, 2008 at 10:20 AM

I hope the first thing Mac does is allow gay marriage. I’m sick and tired of that rediculous argument. We as a nation have spent too long debating and too many resources arguing whether Bill and Steve can share medical benefits. I don’t care! I am completely comfortable with my masculinity. Move on to something of substance like, oh I don’t know, THE WAR ON TERROR.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:21 AM

Is that why Phil Graham the most conservative fiscal leader in the nation is endorsing McCain?

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Didn’t McCain stump for Graham in a failed election bid?

amerpundit on January 31, 2008 at 10:23 AM

I hope the first thing Mac does is allow gay marriage. I’m sick and tired of that rediculous argument. We as a nation have spent too long debating and too many resources arguing whether Bill and Steve can share medical benefits. I don’t care! I am completely comfortable with my masculinity. Move on to something of substance like, oh I don’t know, THE WAR ON TERROR.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:21 AM

Who exactly “chose” you, oh great chosen one? And what have you been chosen for?

stenwin77 on January 31, 2008 at 10:23 AM

AP, he was anti-McCain HEAVY in Florida. He’s from Florida and he was hoping that he could get Romney the nomination. He didn’t ‘just come up with’ this list of issues with McCain. This list was honed over the last week when he stumped for Romney on his show. After the debate, he said ‘Romney won, Romney is going to be the nominee’.

He’s in the tank for Mitt. He’s been anti-McCain for at least a week by now. I would put about as much credibility in what he says as Hannity talking about the ruDe.

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:06 AM

Joe’s probably peeved because despite all his efforts McCain won the large majority of his old congressional district.

Complete7 on January 31, 2008 at 10:24 AM

When it comes to gay marriage I say let the states and the voters decide.

EnochCain on January 31, 2008 at 10:24 AM

On Drudge: Nancy Reagan supports McCain

bnelson44 on January 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM

It was just a matter of time before the unchosen one revealed his “inner self” squish

kflynn on January 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM

I was chosen by the gods of moderation. I’m here to water you down a little so our concerted message comes out somewhat coherant for the general.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:27 AM

Mitt needs to take off the mitts.

McVain fights bare knuckle.

Romney needs to reeview some Reagan debates and maybe a few ancient silent-era boxing films.

This is to win an office where you will have to be battling Putin and Achmadinejad and OBL and the Chinese pirates simultaneously.

People need to see if Romney can smack down a lying crank with gusto and panache and seriousness.

Reagan got rid of Carter with “There you go again!” and a smile.

Maybe McVain deserves the exact same phrase.

Since both he and Carter were Navy men, who served honorably, and then went bad once in politics.

profitsbeard on January 31, 2008 at 10:28 AM

On Drudge: Nancy Reagan supports McCain

bnelson44 on January 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM

Seems like we won’t know if the source is right or not. She doesn’t plan to publicly endorse anyone.

amerpundit on January 31, 2008 at 10:30 AM

It was just a matter of time before the unchosen one revealed his “inner self” squish

kflynn on January 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM

I’ve been a consistant Moderate since my Hotair arrival.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:32 AM

I noticed Derb is trumpeting that McCain finished near bottom of his class at the Naval Academy and is thus “incompetent”.

Jimmy Carter graduated near the top of his Annapolis Class (59th of 850). I trust this will put an end to equating grades at the USNA to competence!

McCain will never get my vote for any number of reasons but questions of his competence are not among them- except for economics which McCain himself says he is clueless.

highhopes on January 31, 2008 at 10:33 AM

John McCain has his name on more pieces of liberal legislation with DEMOCRATS than the two DEMOCRAT SENATATORS running for POTUS against him.

THink about that for a minute.

The maverick has made it his life’s work to give Liberals standing in legisltive matters that THE VOTERS OF THIS COUNTRY DID NOT GIVE THEM.
When Repulicans were in the majority, McCain was validating the DEMS, not strengthenig the CONSERVATIVES.

EJDolbow on January 31, 2008 at 10:35 AM

The only thing keeping Maverick in the lead is Huckles. Another gutless moderate.

Big Orange on January 31, 2008 at 10:36 AM

The second thing the Mac should do is take on the 2nd ammendment. No individual person should be able to arm themselves like a small army. There has to be some legislation passed that allows citizens to arm themselves within reason. Multiple guns is cool, I’m totally for the right to carry a concealed weapon, and I’d like to see more enforcement of laws already on the books. However, hopefully those who have an underground bunker full of Ak’s won’t be allowed to wrap themselves in the constitution any longer.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:37 AM

Huckles

funny.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:38 AM

The second thing the Mac should do is take on the 2nd ammendment. No individual person should be able to arm themselves like a small army. There has to be some legislation passed that allows citizens to arm themselves within reason. Multiple guns is cool, I’m totally for the right to carry a concealed weapon, and I’d like to see more enforcement of laws already on the books. However, hopefully those who have an underground bunker full of Ak’s won’t be allowed to wrap themselves in the constitution any longer.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:37 AM

I don’t think your a republican at all. I think your a trolling liberal who knows that a McCain ticket is an automatic victory for the dems.

Big Orange on January 31, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Mac will destroy either of the donkeys, bro. Check the polls.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Like I am really impressed by MSNBC’s version of Alan Colmes.

The opinions of a “house conservative” for a radical left wing organization do not mean much to me.

JayHaw Phrenzie on January 31, 2008 at 10:43 AM

War Hero vs. Billary. Mark Mckinnon who is Mac’s ad guy will have a field day with this matchup. He also was Bush’s ad guy during 04′.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Mac will destroy either of the donkeys, bro. Check the polls.

THE CHOSEN ONE on January 31, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Yeah boy. Those polls are NEVER wrong. The people loving this is the left wing media. They know exactly what their doing.

Big Orange on January 31, 2008 at 10:46 AM

War hero vs Bill Clinton: How did that work out
War hero vs George Bush: Again…..

Big Orange on January 31, 2008 at 10:48 AM

I’m sorry, but Scarborough doesn’t have alot of room to talk himself.

jp on January 31, 2008 at 10:04 AM

Why so?

Spirit of 1776 on January 31, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Too bad I didn’t watch this. That’s because NewsBusters, much as I love the site, has the lamest video on the planet.

rivlax on January 31, 2008 at 10:56 AM

So John (feingold-Kennedy-Hernandez) McCain wins in Fla. Big deal. Most of the people in Florida are retired and not scrambling for work out in the marketplace where there are no longer entry level jobs. Hell, my kids can’t even get a job at mcDonalds during the summer because all the jobs are taken by Mexicans.

If republicans are happy with John (feingold-Kennedy-Henandez) McCain then obviously they’ve forgotten what the influx of uneducated-unskilled Mexicans is doing to our culture, workplace and social services. What is this, mass attention deficit disorder? The man co-authored the worst Bill in decades (completly rejected by the American people) and brags that he’d still sign it if he could.

If he wins the republican nomination, I and many like me will leave the party because the party is in shambles. Thank you George Bush and screw you McCain. Bush a one trick pony and John (Feingold-Kennedy-Hernandez) McCain, and embarrassment. OH GREAT. THAT LEAVES MITT ROMNEY WAITING IN THE WINGS. WOW, AIN’T THAT A KICK IN THE TEETH!

Pardon me for venting but I really thought the Republican party was better than this. I’m outa here.

Ernest on January 31, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Dear Chosen One
So, you’re tired of hearing about gay marriage. Share your feelings with your therapist or your sponsor. But if a radical legal change is to be made the burden of proof falls on you.

snaggletoothie on January 31, 2008 at 11:07 AM

He’s in the tank for Mitt. He’s been anti-McCain for at least a week by now. I would put about as much credibility in what he says as Hannity talking about the ruDe.

ThackerAgency on January 31, 2008 at 10:06 AM

So what? What did Joe say that was factually incorrect? Are you willing to postulate that in addition to the litany Joe laid out for us that voting against drilling in ANWR (against the wishes of the Alaskan people to boot) and wanting to close GITMO is “conservative”?

Buy Danish on January 31, 2008 at 11:18 AM

Since when is getting shot down and captured by an enemy a hero, make? Thousands of men where shot down over Europe during WWII, but somehow I do not think they were hailed as heros. The last several navy men who were elected President avoided capture. I’m not judging, I’m just saying.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on January 31, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Still not voting for McCain. Nope. It just isn’t going to happen. Word to GWB: superglue the furniture to the floor, because when a REAL conservative evicts Billary from the White House in 2012, the American people would prefer not to see another ransacking of the sofas, paintings, and nic-nacs in the presidential living quarters… thanks.

Gartrip on January 31, 2008 at 11:23 AM

I’m voting for McCain or Romney…are you?

McCain got a %100 rating from the Club for Growth in 2007.
I think you guys can still work with the guy but you might have to work harder. I guess people don’t want to do that.

tomas on January 31, 2008 at 11:32 AM

McCain ’08==Dole ’96
EOM

belad on January 31, 2008 at 11:39 AM

I hope the first thing Mac does is allow gay marriage. I’m sick and tired of that rediculous argument. We as a nation have spent too long debating and too many resources arguing whether Bill and Steve can share medical benefits. I don’t care! I am completely comfortable with my masculinity. Move on to something of substance like, oh I don’t know, THE WAR ON TERROR.

A bit clumsy on the segway there girlfriend. May I suggest beating around the bush a bit more in the future (pun intended).

As for McCain, I’m officially tired of his presidency already.

Immolate on January 31, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on January 31, 2008 at 11:20 AM

You are just wrong here. “Getting shot down and captured by the enemy” isn’t the heroic part. He even isn’t the only one in Congress who was a POW (Sam Johnson-TX). McCain’s actions as a POW were heroic and he should be praised as an American hero for that. It’s just that he should be praised at his retirement home in Arizona not the Capitol and certainly not the Oval Office!

The part about McCain’s military record that really annoys me is his comments that he commanded the biggest squadron in the Pacific. That doesn’t prove anything but McCain’s dad was CINCPAC at the time.

highhopes on January 31, 2008 at 11:51 AM

Since when is getting shot down and captured by an enemy a hero, make? Thousands of men where shot down over Europe during WWII, but somehow I do not think they were hailed as heros. The last several navy men who were elected President avoided capture. I’m not judging, I’m just saying.”
.
Dude… I’m no McCain fan, and still stinging enough from Tuesday that I’m not sure I’ll vote for him if he wins the nomination, but dude… McCain is not a hero because he got shot down, or because he was held prisoner, or because he survived being held prisoner. He is a hero because of what he did while he survived being held prisoner after being shot down. Please research before making unforced errors. You’ll find all you need to know online without charge.
.
Wiki

Immolate on January 31, 2008 at 11:52 AM

That was so awesome I almost hurt myself watching it. MSNBC talking about conservativism and bashing John McCain — it’s gonna be a good day.

Personally I wish we could skip the next debate and just go to cagefighting instead. Since we’re basically down to two candidates on each side, I think we should just lock them up and the last man standing gets the White House. Of course, a friend of mine did have a good point: “I pity the person who steps in the ring with Hillary. That kind of evil superpower will rip your still-beating heart out and feed it to you.”

Numenorean on January 31, 2008 at 11:55 AM

McCain got a %100 rating from the Club for Growth in 2007.
I think you guys can still work with the guy but you might have to work harder. I guess people don’t want to do that.

tomas on January 31, 2008 at 11:32 AM

How do you work with someone who considers any position you hold that he does not share, “extreme”?

And if you listen, (because while he tries to hide it, he’s no good at it) the “Straight talker” is doing an awful lot of double talking and talking out the side of his mouth. In the debate the other night he was asked if he would vote for his original immigration bill. He never said “no”, he just said it wasn’t going to come up for a vote. That tells me that given a chance to vote for it again, he would.

It’s no surprise to me that Schwarzenegger (a RINO), and Crist and Guilliani, all from states or cities with large numbers of illegal immigrants would endorse him.

eclark1849 on January 31, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Let’s see if I’ve got this straight?

The Democratic Party is offering up Candidate Clinton: a self-indulgent, truth-bending narcissist who will say virtually anything to be elected. The Republicans have countered by nominating an aging, self-righteous senior ranking Senator and wounded war hero whose primary claim to fame is a distrustful relationship with a 2-term Republican President and an awkward history with his own party’s core constituencies.

Correct? OK, I think I’ve got it. Well, at least we all know how the story will end. I guess that should count for something.

Gartrip on January 31, 2008 at 12:03 PM

I am hoping that Romney finds a way to win the nomination. That said, the rhetoric of the conservative McCain haters is doing little to further conservatism within the Republican Party or among the broader American electorate. Most Americans share many of the core values that conservatives hold dear, but they don’t seem to be voting for conservative candidates. Until we figure out why that is happening, our collective conservative voices will be much less effective.

Although I understand all of the angst surrounding McCain, punishing Republican candidates by not supporting them in the general election hasn’t worked for us. Our best strategy, given the current circumstances, is to lobby for a conservative running mate for McCain if he gets the nomination, hold our noses and vote for the Republican ticket in November, and then intensify our lobbying efforts to keep liberal legislation from getting to the President’s desk. McCain, for all of his many liberal failings, will continue to fight the war on terror rather than surrendering. He will be with us on some issues and will have to be fought by us on others.

Rush Limbaugh said on his program that even though he is not happy with McCain’s liberalness, he is not advocating that we intentionally lose in November. We can never win by losing. We can only win, if we unite behind our Presidential nominee and then use intense lobbying to hold him and our other elected leaders accountable. This is the hallmark of an effective proactive democracy.

Unless conservatives demonstrate more unity and less venom within our own party, it is unlikely that we will appeal to the conservative values that exist in most Americans. If we continue to deride and ridicule those within our own party, most Americans will simply turn away from the ugliness and move farther away from their support of conservatism. We have to learn how to kindle and inspire support for conservative values without resorting to hateful rhetoric and attacks. Unless we find a way to do this, we will fail in our efforts to promote more conservative candidates in the future. We will be regarded as no better than the hate-filled loons on the left. It does no good to be right on the issues facing this country when you are relegated to a position of irrelevance in the eyes of most Americans.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 12:07 PM

NuclearPhysicist:
Actually we CAN “win by losing” in November and more importantly, we can also LOSE BY WINNING in November. When Hillary moves into the White House, the Republican Party will have received a very powerful message from their core voters: give us a real conservative, or else.
If McCain moves in, the Republican leadership will dismiss “McCain Haters” as just a bunch of backward morons who don’t really matter. In addition, McCain will move the party to the left AND set up his own heir apparent from a small circle of RINO’s who will be in control of the White House, the Executive branch, and the party. How EXACTLY does this benefit the conservative movement? How?!

Gartrip on January 31, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Since when is getting shot down and captured by an enemy a hero, make?

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on January 31, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Someone finally had the guts to say what I have been thinking for years. My idea of a hero is someone who does something heroic. Maybe like sacrificing yourself to save your comrades or (like in the movies) standing up in heavy incoming fire and mow down the enemy to save your fellow soldiers. The word ‘hero’, in my opinion, has been used rather loosely in recent years. I’m talking about those who call O.J. Simpson a football hero or those who call other atheletes heroes. You get the picture.

Not only is McAmnesty NOT a hero maybe he should be asked to pay for the plane he lost. Just saying!! Just kidding!!

OBX Pete on January 31, 2008 at 12:20 PM

Your claim that we can win by losing is absurd. Show me where this has worked for us in the past. The “powerful messages” that we have attempted to send in recent history have resulted in less influence by conservatives rather than more. The conservative movement will only win by fighting at the grass-roots level for the values that we believe in. This fight includes grass-roots efforts to resist moving the party to the left. We will only lose by winning if we sit on our collective butts after the election and let the other team win.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 12:31 PM

OBX Pete on January 31, 2008 at 12:20 PM

Myh problem with McCains’s hero status is that he uses it ad naseum. He mentions his military service more instances than referring to his senatorial service whenever someone ask him experience qualifications or leadership qualifications.

We get it John, but we have moved on. Time for you to stop looking at the shiny medals anytime someone asks you about the here and now.

geckomon on January 31, 2008 at 12:31 PM

My message above is for Gartrip. I forgot to note that.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Although I understand all of the angst surrounding McCain, punishing Republican candidates by not supporting them in the general election hasn’t worked for us. Our best strategy, given the current circumstances, is to lobby for a conservative running mate for McCain if he gets the nomination, hold our noses and vote for the Republican ticket in November, and then intensify our lobbying efforts to keep liberal legislation from getting to the President’s desk. McCain, for all of his many liberal failings, will continue to fight the war on terror rather than surrendering. He will be with us on some issues and will have to be fought by us on others.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 12:07 PM

There’s that, or… just tossing this out to see if it sticks… we could nominate someone who agrees with us in the first place. Call me “crazy” or “deranged”, but I don’t feel I should be pressured to vote for someone I don’t agree with just for the sake of party unity. And you can bet that SAME argument with come up the first time we disagree with PRESIDENT McCain. We’ll be told to shut up and sit down for the sake of party unity.

eclark1849 on January 31, 2008 at 12:36 PM

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 12:31 PM

The question is, do conservatives belong in the GOP anymore? Is it all about being a moderate now? If a conservative sits out in voting for a republican, it only means that person no longer feels a part of the rhetoric coming from the Republican Party and thus has no reason to support it.

The “anybody but . . .” reason, to me, is anti-conservative. It’s a compromise that only breeds more complacency and invites more left-wing thought. The more we win for the sake of a win, the more conservatism looses.

I’m getting tired of voting in those who would rather “reach across the aisles” than stay and support their own parties values. If the country really wanted bi-partisanship, then change the constitution so that every seat and office is occupied by two opposite party members.

geckomon on January 31, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Mika is an empty skirt. I say she is ready for The View once Joe kicks her off his show.

RobCon on January 31, 2008 at 12:40 PM

My problem with McCains’s hero status is that he uses it ad naseum. He mentions his military service more instances than referring to his senatorial service whenever someone ask him experience qualifications or leadership qualifications.

We get it John, but we have moved on. Time for you to stop looking at the shiny medals anytime someone asks you about the here and now.

geckomon on January 31, 2008 at 12:31 PM

AMEN !!

OBX Pete on January 31, 2008 at 12:42 PM

NuclearPhysicist:
Actually we CAN “win by losing” in November and more importantly, we can also LOSE BY WINNING in November. When Hillary moves into the White House, the Republican Party will have received a very powerful message from their core voters: give us a real conservative, or else.
If McCain moves in, the Republican leadership will dismiss “McCain Haters” as just a bunch of backward morons who don’t really matter. In addition, McCain will move the party to the left AND set up his own heir apparent from a small circle of RINO’s who will be in control of the White House, the Executive branch, and the party. How EXACTLY does this benefit the conservative movement? How?!

Gartrip

I agree Gart, personally, I may even cross over and vote for the dem. If we are going to get a dem either way, because, lets face it, McCain is more of a dem than some dems, I would rather their party get the credit for screwing up the country for the next four years. If McCain is pres with a dem congress, he will kill business, which will sink the economy, he will open the borders inviting tens of millions more uneducated workers here. That’s going to be a HUGH problem in a sub-prime fueled recession where a lot of those jobs they used to have are already gone. The countrys going to have a rough few years ahead either way. But the trut is, McCain is a dem and governs like a dem and will be absolutely NO different that any other dem.

Remember what happened in 94? After Billy Jeff got into office, the whole country took one look at what he was doing and put republicans in charge of congress for the first time in 44 years! That will happen again if Hill is president, but it will not happen if McCain is in their because people will see no difference between the two parties. Just my $.02 worth.

Bikerken on January 31, 2008 at 12:46 PM

eclark:

I am not advocating that we nominate/vote for McCain in the primaries. If possible, we should all work to get Romney the nomination. However, if this strategy fails, we need to implement Plan B as stated above.

Does it really matter that McCain might want us to shut up and go away or that he might get upset with us? I don’t think so. There are far too many conservative voices out there for him to simply disregard us. He will only be able to silence us and ignore us, if we withdraw from active participation in the democratic process and choose to be silent. If we do that then we will deserve to be ignored.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 12:49 PM

NuclearPhysicist:
When did we win by losing? I’ve already stated this on another thread, but I’ll say it again here. We won in 1980 when we sat home in 1976. We won in 1994 when we sat home in 1992. We won in 2000 when we sat home in 1996 (which by the way is looking eerily similar to 2008). And just for the record, I never actually sit home. I’m not missing a chance to cast a vote for local real conservatives just because my party nominates RINO for President. I’ll go and I’ll do what I did in 1996. I left the Presidential portion of my ballot empty. And in November, I’ll do it again.
Fortunately, the law lets me do that. You can do what you want to do, just don’t think you can control what I do. My plan is to bring back the real conservatives to leadership positions in the party of Reagan. Clearly, you seem to have a different plan. So be it.

Gartrip on January 31, 2008 at 12:51 PM

What’s most impressive is how long, yet still incomplete, the list of grievances is and how effortlessly he calls it up from memory. A testament, surely, to how deeply McCain’s betrayals have seeped into the conservative consciousness. VDH is doing his best to rehabilitate Maverick for the sake of the war, but he’d be better off waiting until we’ve reconciled ourselves to our fate before trying this. At this stage he’s probably alienating more readers than he’s converting.

AllahPundit

I haven’t even watched the video; why bother? Allah’s first paragraph goes right to the HotAir Hall of Fame for its sheer perfection.

Joe Scarborough?! What the hell does he know about conservatism? This is apparently even worse than I thought, if that’s possible.

Jaibones on January 31, 2008 at 12:54 PM

Mark Mckinnon who is Mac’s ad guy

Right. And Yvette Lozano’s boss.

I like McKinnon, I worked with him on some estate tax reform stuff about a decade ago. But there’s hardly anyone I’d put up to the job of fighting the MSM tide once they rally ’round their candidate (who, let’s not kid ourselves, is not McCain).

DrSteve on January 31, 2008 at 1:05 PM

Joe is an idiot Im sorry he is where he belongs on MSNBC. Enough said

TroubledMonkey on January 31, 2008 at 1:07 PM

Bikerken:

If too many conservatives continue to bicker and stay home in November, we will not get a repeat of ’94. What we will get is more Democrats and surrender to the terrorists. If conservatives really care about the future direction of this country, they need to learn how to set aside their differences with the other factions of their party and work toward stopping the further demise of this nation. McCain will work with us in many areas. I can’t say the same for either Clinton or Obama. Inaction by conservatives will only bring certain defeat. We win by pro-actively electing our Party’s candidates and then vigorously holding them accountable to more conservative standards. Moving the country in a more conservative direction is a long struggle that will take consistent effort over many years or perhaps decades. It will never happen if we withdraw and let the other guys win.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 1:09 PM

I stopped taking Scarborough seriously a long time ago. He’s a media whore. Nothing more.

rightwingprof on January 31, 2008 at 1:19 PM

This has gone too far. Scarborough is now, for money, a poltical hitman against the Repubs for MSNBC.

The idea that Scarborough has any credibility is foolishness.

The guy is a politcal mercenary

georgealbert on January 31, 2008 at 1:32 PM

NuclearPhysicist, McCain is never going to govern like a conservative, even on the war. How much difference do you think their is going to be between a dem and McCain on the war? Not much I think. Congress will still have some voice but I don’t place much confidence in those jerks. I will never vote for that man because of the way he tried to shove that immigration legislation down our throats before anyone could even find out what was in it and it was probably the most destructive act that could have happened to this country. I live in San Diego and if you ask me which has a higher priority, the war overseas, or the invasion in my front yard, I gotta say here at home. The way I look at it, there is no difference in the level of damage that McCain or the other dems are going to inflict on the country in the next four years. I would rather a dem do it than a RINO I voted for.

Bikerken on January 31, 2008 at 1:35 PM

Gartrip:

We won in 1980, because we had a charismatic candidate, not because conservatives stayed home in 1976. Staying home in 1976 brought us Carter and a nightmarish legacy that is still haunting us. We won in 1994 because the American people became tired of the Democrat approach to running the country and because we had charismatic Republican leaders that persuaded them to give the Republicans a chance (too bad that they blew it). Staying home in 1992 brought us 4 years of Clinton and a liberal foreign policy that has cost us dearly. Staying home in 1996 brought us another 4 years of Clinton filled with scandal and lax federal oversight. We won in 2000 because Gore was a bore and Bush was a good campaigner. The country would be far better off today, if we had showed up in 1976, 1992, and 1996 and actively moved the country away from disaster with our imperfect yet more responsible candidates. Many of the problems that we have today are with us because many of us stayed home rather than support our admittedly uninspiring candidates. I stand by the approach that I have outlined above. You are free to disagree and not vote for the Republican Presidential candidate. Just don’t expect me to agree to another 4-8 years of disastrous liberal leadership under the Democrats. I’ve been there and done that. It has left a bad taste in my mouth.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Once again, any ideas how to form “The New Conservative Party”?

kcd on January 31, 2008 at 1:42 PM

kcd on January 31, 2008 at 1:42 PM

a huge enema to flush all the s*** rinos out once and for all . If that means we have to put up with 4 years of a dimi then so be it.

Mojack420 on January 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Bikerken:

No, McCain will not govern like a conservative. But, he will be a hawk in the war on terror. We will find more common ground with him than with the alternatives. But, we will have to fight like h*ll to keep liberal legislation from showing up on his desk. We stopped the immigration package under Bush. We will have the same ability to stop similar legislation under a President McCain.

If conservatives like you have no faith in our ability to stop the legislation before it gets to the President’s desk, then you have already thrown in the towel. So, why let the Democrats win? If illegal immigration is really such a lost cause under McCain then it is also a lost cause under the Democrats. Why not take what you can get with a President McCain and declare victory with a better chance of winning the war on terror?

I simply can’t agree with you on illegal immigration being more important than the war on terror. Losing the war on terror will be far more damaging to us and the rest of the world than having 20-30 million illegals taking out our garbage and picking our fruits and vegetables. Illegal immigration is a real problem, but it does not rise to the level of potential catastrophic consequences that losing the war on terror does.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM

Just don’t expect me to agree to another 4-8 years of disastrous liberal leadership under the Democrats. I’ve been there and done that. It has left a bad taste in my mouth.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 1:38 PM

That is my point… A vote for McCain IS a vote for what you fear. I simply believe (as do thousands of others) that it’s best if that “disastrous liberal leadership” is accompanied by a President with a “D” by her name in the history books as opposed to an “R”.

I think we’re done here. Time to move to a new thread.

Gartrip on January 31, 2008 at 2:05 PM

McCain is already trying to give terrorists the same rights as US citizens and bring the war into the courts. That would kill the war on terror right there. He does not seem to realize that there is a such thing as illegal warriors, (Not part of a country, no uniform, not following geneva convention rules) which are NOT covered by the Geneva convention, let alone have US citizen rights. And he had not been all that gracious to vets either, of which I am one, 20 year retired navy. I don’t believe ANYTHING is going to stop McCain from doing whatever the hell Ted Kennedy tells him to do. He is a nasty, bitter, washington insider who consistantly gives the finger to conservatives. And by the way, NP, I’m not the only one, I got news for you, I don’t think McCain beat any dem anyway. He is Walter Mondale v2.0. Once he gets the nomination, the media will start to tear him to pieces and pump up whoever the dem nominee is. McCain is a loser for us, we have allowed the other party to pick our man and we are going to lose.

Bikerken on January 31, 2008 at 2:09 PM

kcd and Mojack20:

Based on what I’ve seen recently, your new conservative party will be pretty small and mostly irrelevant. Good luck with that. As a lifelong conservative, I’ll stay put and work for change within the party. I’ll take the bad with the good and work to make things better. I’ll work on my people skills and try to find out how we can convince more Americans to support the conservative values that lie dormant within them. I might make a difference. It’s unlikely that you will.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Your claim that we can win by losing is absurd. Show me where this has worked for us in the past.

NuclearPhysicist

Compare spending under Clinton to spending under Bush, compare the Republican in congress who blocked Clinton’s attempts at spending increases, but walked where Bush led.

We’re talking mostly the same Congress critters, but with a Republican pushing liberal actions, they’ll agree. With a Democrat pushing comparable actions, they’ll balk and fight.

If this doesn’t work as an “example”, explain why the same Republicans who blocked HillaryCare and Clinton’s attempted spending hikes were willing to push liberal legislation under Bush.

gekkobear on January 31, 2008 at 2:15 PM

Gartrip:

You need to work on your disaster prevention skills. We don’t need to let them happen.

Bikerken:

McCain is a hawk on the war on terror. The fact that he may allow more legal options for captured terrorist doesn’t change that. He will still make sure that most of them are killed on the battlefield. Although I don’t agree with his stance on granting these terrorists more legal rights, it is not a fatal flaw when it comes to fighting and winning the war on terror.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:16 PM

gekkobear:

Your example illustrates exactly why we can’t become complacent even when Republicans are running things. Intense lobbying is still needed no matter who is in charge. Spending other peoples money is an addicting thing. Few can resist the urge to do this after they settle in for a while. We can make a difference, if we hammer our messages home. We seem to be getting things through to them on things like more accountability with earmarks. We simply need to keep at it and stay alert to rising problems. Consistent pressure usually wins out in the long run, if we are lobbying for things that connect with the dormant conservative values that exist in most Americans.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:28 PM

I simply can’t agree with you on illegal immigration being more important than the war on terror. Losing the war on terror will be far more damaging to us and the rest of the world than having 20-30 million illegals taking out our garbage and picking our fruits and vegetables. Illegal immigration is a real problem, but it does not rise to the level of potential catastrophic consequences that losing the war on terror does.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM

Border security is a fundamental part of national security. If you don’t think so, take the dead bolt off your back door and add it to the one already (I assume) on your front door. And then cancel your home insurance.

You want catastrophe? Imagine this village in your backyard. Then imagine how many villages we would have after 12 to 30 million invaders get “legalized”, to make room for the NEXT 30 million, after they see what a great deal is to be had by crossing our border illegally. You will never stop the flood if you keep rewarding illegal behavior. Never. No matter how high and wide a fence you build. And we should build the fence!

BTW, here is the solution; working just fine in four states so far.

We have to take off our shoes to board airplanes. The threat of Dubai managing our ports caused a real firestorm. It is insane to think that we are secure by guarding two of the three doors to get into our country. Remember this?

For over two years, McCain has insisted on REWARDING foreign invaders (permanent residency after only a one business day to complete background and health checks on 12 to 30 million Z visa applicants) rather than secure our border to protect his own constituents. He has held hostage our national security to get his way on rewarding illegal behavior, thereby encouraging more illegal behavior in the future.

He said on Russert that he would sign the same bill. He has not learned his lesson. He still wants to sell out our country.

I trust Mitt to listen to his military advisors on WOT. I trust McCain to listen to Juan Hernandez on border security.

fred5678 on January 31, 2008 at 2:49 PM

Last Word for NuclearPhysicist:
Thanks for the advice, I’ll do that. You might want to do the same though, because I have every intention of letting Hillary waltz right past Mr McCain and on into the White House. It’s a done deal.
As I said, I’ve already made up my mind. I’m ready though. I have good job, a lot of savings, a gun to defend myself with, and a house that’s paid for. I can withstand just about anything at this point.
See you in 2012.

Gartrip on January 31, 2008 at 2:50 PM

Romney 2012!! There’s no way old, senile McCain will be any DEM. It’s a repeat of Dole in 96.

therightwinger on January 31, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Does it really matter that McCain might want us to shut up and go away or that he might get upset with us? I don’t think so. There are far too many conservative voices out there for him to simply disregard us. He will only be able to silence us and ignore us, if we withdraw from active participation in the democratic process and choose to be silent. If we do that then we will deserve to be ignored.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM

You mean “conservative voices” like yours that are telling me to shut up, sit down and vote for McCain even if I don’t like him? Yeah, it’s troubling me just a tad.

It’s sort of funny that you should mention McCain attempting to “silence and ignore us” with a straight face (I’m assuming you weren’t having a laughing fit when you actually typed it) considering McCain-Feingold. Seems to me that if he DOES silence and ignore us, we didn’t withdraw from the democratic process, we were ejected.

eclark1849 on January 31, 2008 at 3:19 PM

Well, here’s my last word on McCain. He has been doing nothing but giving the finger to conservatives for at least the last eight or ten years. And that’s exactly what he’s gonna get from me in November.

Bikerken on January 31, 2008 at 3:24 PM