Quote of the day

posted at 10:00 pm on January 27, 2008 by Allahpundit

“Yes, they might peg out any time, but it’s not our job to play God.”

Blowback

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Responding to the survey’s findings on the treatment of the elderly, Dr Calland, of the BMA, said: “If a patient of 90 needs a hip operation they should get one. Yes, they might peg out any time, but it’s not our job to play God.”

If only there was a way to recycle cigarette waste into artificial hips… We could say these people have butts in their butt.

ErikTheRed on January 27, 2008 at 10:02 PM

God bless socialized medicine!

madne0 on January 27, 2008 at 10:04 PM

Moral questions, moral questions. Which side will the HA commentariat come down on?

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:06 PM

I say once the women get ugly, immediate DNR placed on their medical record. Once men can’t bench 180, immediate DNR. I would run a tight ship in my country. Oh yea, children who dont make me smile when I look at them, hope they dont need cough medicine. My country would rule.

muyoso on January 27, 2008 at 10:07 PM

Well (sarc.)didn’t someone in Germany,WW2
come to the same conclusion with some of
its own citizens!

canopfor on January 27, 2008 at 10:10 PM

They always start with the elderly, eh? And then the mentally challenged. And then those with squints. And then…

mram on January 27, 2008 at 10:11 PM

That’s the problem with collevtivism in general – it attempts to decide for the individual based on what it perceives to be best for society as a whole, rather than letting individuals determine their own fate. Once you start down the “good of society” path, just about anything can be justified. Wars, genocide, eugenics, forced starvation, letting people die of easily preventable disease, etc. All of these are actual results of collectivist policies in the last 100 years.

ErikTheRed on January 27, 2008 at 10:13 PM

muyoso on January 27, 2008 at 10:07 PM

Erk!

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:13 PM

That’s the problem with collevtivism in genera

And that’s the problem with not clicking preview. /me rolls eyes at self.

ErikTheRed on January 27, 2008 at 10:15 PM

But isn’t the mantra of communism/socialism that none of us better than any of us? Hypocrites as usual.

SouthernGent on January 27, 2008 at 10:16 PM

All of these are actual results of collectivist policies in the last 100 years.

ErikTheRed on January 27, 2008 at 10:13 PM

Results?1? Results, you say? Nawww. You must judge intentions. INTENTIONS I say!

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:16 PM

Not so fast Jonah!

A similar dynamic defined much of Nazi Germany. Nazi Youth manuals proclaimed that “nutrition is not a private matter!” “Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz” – essentially, all for one, one for all – was the rallying slogan of the Nazi crackdown on smoking, the first serious anti-tobacco campaign of the 20th century. The first systematized mass murder in Nazi Germany wasn’t of the Jews but of the “useless bread-gobblers” and other lebensunwertes leben (“life unworthy of life”). The argument was that the mentally ill, the aged, the infirm were too much of a drain on the socialist economy.

Now, nobody thinks anything like that is in store for us these days. But we can come far short of that and still overshoot the mark of what is desirable by a wide margin.

Deety on January 27, 2008 at 10:17 PM

Don’t worry. In 30 years, after sharia is implemented, Brits will be hoping the NHS will let them die. And the future Wahhabi overlords will be glad to let the drinkers and pork eater die. Filthy fat infidels. Didn’t they hear the fatwa on the BBC?

Vote Sauron 08 on January 27, 2008 at 10:19 PM

If you ask the government to address a problem, don’t be surprised if they wind up regulating and controlling that problem.

A state that will provide for you will tell you what they will and won’t provide. And you damned better well accept it.

Tocqueville warned about this about 180 years ago; but all for naught.

SteveMG on January 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM

If we are all created equal and endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights, it follows that certain actions will always be right and others will always be wrong.

If, however, there is no God, then all that remains is the will of the majority – in whatever form it happens to take, whether benign or malignant.

Therefore, choose wisely and remember: you can’t have Falstaff – and have him thin.

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:24 PM

When your medicine is provided by the state; the state decides what medicine you receive.

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 10:27 PM

Oh the joys we can look forward to with socialized medicine.

BRING ON THE HILLARYCARE!!!!

Yakko77 on January 27, 2008 at 10:27 PM

Tocqueville warned about this about 180 years ago; but all for naught.

SteveMG on January 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM

His warning is still sounding crystal clear around these parts. * tocsin *

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:28 PM

His warning is still sounding crystal clear around these parts. * tocsin * – RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:28 PM

You rang?

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Who knew that Logan’s Run was a predictor of future events?

I have lots of one-liners for this QOTD :P

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 10:30 PM

You rang?

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Your humble student learned.

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:30 PM

A system that goes against human nature always comes to this end. Conservatism and Laissez-faire need to be fought for and preserved by those that have true compassion for the human condition on this mortal coil. This is one of the reasons the FF put the 2nd amendment in place, and at this stage the choice of weaponry should be open.No submission,no quarter.

bbz123 on January 27, 2008 at 10:31 PM

Your appendix have burst, sir? Sorry. Take a number and get at the end of the line. Next!

Travis1 on January 27, 2008 at 10:32 PM

So will this be brought up at the next Dimocratic debate?

Vigilante on January 27, 2008 at 10:32 PM

Somehow, I don’t see Michael Moore supporting this particular result of socialized medicine.

Sicko indeed…

SuperCool on January 27, 2008 at 10:32 PM

bbz123 on January 27, 2008 at 10:31 PM

Agreed. Stock up if you love your country and your family.

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:33 PM

Your humble student learned. – RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:30 PM

The Master is pleased. Now here is your Trac II razor. Vilma is in the next room…

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:33 PM

Remind me again. Why is it that we need socialized medicine?

DAT60A3 on January 27, 2008 at 10:34 PM

It gives meaning to the phrase

Die young and leave a good looking corpus.

So much for the hippocratic oath.

Kini on January 27, 2008 at 10:35 PM

The Master is pleased. Now here is your Trac II razor. Vilma is in the next room…

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:33 PM

Your humble student wonders what you mean and who TH is Vilma. *sigh*

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:35 PM

Remind me again. Why is it that we need socialized medicine? – DAT60A3 on January 27, 2008 at 10:34 PM

We don’t. Next question?

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:36 PM

DAT60A3 on January 27, 2008 at 10:34 PM

so politicians can acquire votes by saying “no this will never happen” then after their election voting for it to happen. Without socialized medicine; how will politicians feel important?

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 10:36 PM

So much for the hippocratic oath.

Kini on January 27, 2008 at 10:35 PM

Hammer, meet nail.

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:36 PM

Your humble student wonders what you mean and who TH is Vilma. *sigh*- RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:35 PM

Calm yourself, Grasshopper. Walk in the fields of Google. Type “Dr. Evil Vilma speech” into the search engine box. Read the text. Become enlightened.

Then make sure to shower first, as this tends to soften the hair.

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:40 PM

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:36 PM

Indeed.

Nanny, meet constituent.

Kini on January 27, 2008 at 10:41 PM

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:40 PM

Dr. Evil: The details of my life are quite inconsequential.

Therapist: Oh no, please, please, let’s hear about your childhood.

Dr Evil: Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we’d make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it’s breathtaking, I suggest you try it.

Therapist: You know, we have to stop.

Kini on January 27, 2008 at 10:48 PM

If they’re looking to cut some money out of the budget, how about not paying for terrorist parasites to do nothing but sit around and be deadbeats when they’re not spewing fire and brimstone at their local radical mosque?

Mark V. on January 27, 2008 at 10:48 PM

There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it’s breathtaking, I suggest you try it. – Kini on January 27, 2008 at 10:48 PM

It truly is breathtaking. Just be sure Vilma has a steady hand, or you can end your days as an assistant for Hillary Clinton.

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:52 PM

First they say they’ll take over the management of health care. Then they say they’ll take your money to pay for it.
After a little while they claim you are getting it for free.
Now they say they won’t serve you if they don’t like you because they can’t afford managing all the health care.

Throw them into the furnaces to heat the houses! Oh wait, that was Irish street kids in the 1800′s and that’s not environmentally friendly in this era of anthropogenic global warming.

Bury them alive, I say, before their carbon gets into the atmosphere!1!1

Dusty on January 27, 2008 at 10:53 PM

First to be similarly barred from receiving services under Hillarycare, no doubt, will be registered Republicans.

Blacklake on January 27, 2008 at 10:54 PM

Hmm. The syllabus mentioned that there were no dumb questions. Guess it was wrong, or else I haven’t been in touch with popular culture in a number of years!

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 10:57 PM

Once men can’t bench 180,

Dude. Maybe I’m a late-bloomer in puberty or something, but I’m 19 and still can’t do that!

Do not recessitate me, I guess…

HYTEAndy on January 27, 2008 at 10:58 PM

Oh, and in response to this article, they should get care if they pay for it.

But they don’t pay for it under NHS, do they?

Why America is better, case study #13623723428.

HYTEAndy on January 27, 2008 at 10:59 PM

Who knew that Logan’s Run was a predictor of future events?

I have lots of one-liners for this QOTD :P

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 10:30 PM

That Movie has a Lot of Conservative messages.
Watch it (there is nudity even though its PG so be warned)
It is so interesting though they live in a totally LIBERAL society with hardly any consequences but find out in the end they really want conservative lives its really so weird coming from the 70′s

-Wasteland Man.

WastelandMan on January 27, 2008 at 11:01 PM

kini-

Live fast, die young, and leave a good-looking copse.”

-Dorothy Parker.

(Safer to be uncomely, move measured, and carry a shovel.)

A good scare is worth more to a man than good advice.”

-E.W.Howe.

profitsbeard on January 27, 2008 at 11:02 PM

It truly is breathtaking. Just be sure Vilma has a steady hand, or you can end begin your days as an assistant for Hillary Clinton.

NemoParticularis on January 27, 2008 at 10:52 PM

I think.

wccawa on January 27, 2008 at 11:02 PM

Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations, according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.

I guess I don’t have but a prayer. I’ll die happy using what little I have left.

Isn’t this just another ruse for doctors in the organ transplant business to show concern about the harvest?

Kini on January 27, 2008 at 11:03 PM

profitsbeard on January 27, 2008 at 11:02 PM

Also Arthur Fonzerelli – Ehay!

Kini on January 27, 2008 at 11:07 PM

Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations, according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.

So much for that universal part…

doubleplusundead on January 27, 2008 at 11:07 PM

WastelandMan on January 27, 2008 at 11:01 PM

I’ve seen it. But I -still- don’t understand the Robot protecting the ice cave after they leave the city.

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 11:10 PM

So if we install Hillarycare, there will be an abundance of Soylent Green for everyone!!

landlines on January 27, 2008 at 11:21 PM

Gosh, and to think I thought this was merely satire.
Monty Python strikes again!

redshirt on January 27, 2008 at 11:24 PM

So we got their rocket scientists and England took their doctors? Who knew?

TheBigOldDog on January 27, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Why stop at the old, and the smokers?

Why not the HIV/AIDS patients? Is not their illness “behavior” related? And the syphilitics, those with skin cancer…

… In fact, anyone who is NOT on a strict VEGAN diet should be properly debriefed prior to treatment.

And for that matter, debrief the professed VEGANs too… You know how much the taxpayers lie!

darkpixel on January 27, 2008 at 11:40 PM

restrictions [are] most common in hospitals battling debt.

Managers defend the policies because of the higher risk of complications on the operating table for unfit patients. But critics believe that patients are being denied care simply to save money.

They’re both right.

Wrong #1: laws and regulations in place to force unnatural and unrealistic treatments upon patients who are not candidates for them.

Wrong #2: Well-intentioned as they may be, laws and regulations in health care automatically and predictably result in discriminatory treatment against those who require or demand expensive accommodation (i.e., Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly).

Folks in the health care industry don’t reflexively want to discriminate against these folks. However, hospitals and clinics are businesses with a bottom line. A business in debt is a business grasping for shortcuts — just before it gives up and folds.

And at the root of it all, once the ashes are sifted and the lives are counted, is the cottonpickin’ government. Don’t think the government messes with your personal life? Well rest assured that it sure has a hand in how you and your loved ones, when injured or afflicted or aged, will live… or be abandoned to die.

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 11:44 PM

Once men can’t bench 180,

Dude. Maybe I’m a late-bloomer in puberty or something, but I’m 19 and still can’t do that!

Do not recessitate me, I guess…

HYTEAndy on January 27, 2008 at 10:58 PM

OT…but I’ve been drinking…

WHEN I WAS YOUNG…and Reagan was president and Red Dawn was our favorite movie, there were two exercises…bench press and curls. If you couldn’t bench your own weight 10 or 12 times then what chance did you have against the Soviet horde. And curls…well, no coincidence that curls and girls rhyme.

Anyway, clearly our bench pressing saved America from the USSR. Now it’s time for the next generation to hit the gym and bench press to preserve our way of life!

tlynch001 on January 27, 2008 at 11:48 PM

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 11:44 PM

There’s a big difference between doctors and hospital administrators. This is the doctors talking (you know, the guys who are supposed to put their patients well being above all) not the hospital admins who worry about the bottom line.

Something is seriously amiss in the health care system in Great Brittan where if doctors aren’t busy setting off car bombs they are busy playing God.

TheBigOldDog on January 27, 2008 at 11:52 PM

This is the doctors talking (you know, the guys who are supposed to put their patients well being above all) not the hospital admins who worry about the bottom line.

TheBigOldDog on January 27, 2008 at 11:52 PM

The pressure on the doctors from the bean counters is unbelievable. Inconceivable. Immoral in the name of “Amoral”. The bottom line is winning, and will win, until government steps out of the way and lets the health care system achieve its own balance.

RushBaby on January 27, 2008 at 11:58 PM

SteveMG on January 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM

the founding fathers warned about it more than 200 years ago. They even made a document to help fight this and to promote Freedom instead of socialism.

unseen on January 28, 2008 at 12:14 AM

Fertility treatment and “social” abortions are also on the list of procedures that many doctors say should not be funded by the state.

Anybody else have a problem putting obesity, alcoholism, abortions- all things we pretty much have a choice about and control over- in the same category as fertility treatment? Most people with fertility issues do nothing to cause them and can do nothing to prevent them. Obviously the same cannot be said of abortion.

rbos on January 28, 2008 at 12:16 AM

Ah, c’mon. Eugenics is fun. When did it ever get a bad rap?

And since when did secular humanism ever hurt anybody?

Lighten up. Old people are ugly, anyway. I’m sure putting the government in charge of life and death health care decisions is a fine idea.

Professor Blather on January 28, 2008 at 12:21 AM

Wow….if the beast is elected, every commenter over at Aces will be denied health care within 4 years.

A. Weasel on January 28, 2008 at 12:23 AM

what happens if Doctors find out that death is a sickness that can be cured? will they decide who gets that treatment?

unseen on January 28, 2008 at 12:29 AM

Who knew that Logan’s Run was a predictor of future events?

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 10:30 PM

Of course, that’s rather the whole idea of the dystopian sci-fi genre. Do you think they’ll go with Carousel, as in the movie, or just have people report to the incinerators, like in the book?

My favorite aspect of the movie, incidentally, is freeze-framing the DVD during the Box scenes and looking at the crew, lights, and even soundstage exit signs reflected on the robot’s large mirrored body. Good stuff! (Well, ok, that’s my second favorite aspect. Jenny Agutter still takes first.)

Blacklake on January 28, 2008 at 12:36 AM

I am Arthur Frayn, and I am Zardoz. I have lived 300 years, and long to die. But death is no longer possible, I am immortal. I present now my story – full of mystery and intrigue. Rich in irony, and most satirical. It is set deep within a possible future, so none of these events have yet occurred. But they may! Be warned, lest you end as I. In this tale I am a fake god by occupation, and a magician by inclination. Merlin is my hero! I am the puppet master. I manipulate many of the characters and events you will see. But I am invented too for your entertainment and amusement. And you, poor creatures, who conjured you out of the clay? Is God in showbusiness too?

And the new hippocratic oath…

“The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life, and poisons the earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the gun shoots death, and purifies the earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth and kill!”

Interchangeable by todays standards.

Kini on January 28, 2008 at 12:39 AM

Most people haver lost a lot of respect for those in the medical profession especially those doctors who seem to get paid more and more for doing less and less.

That quote is from one of the commentators and it illustrates what conservatives have been saying would happen under government health care. Doctors being paid by the government would have no incentive to stay competitive and build a strong business. The DMV syndrome. Sounds like these doctors get mandated pay increases every year with no real review of their work. Sounds like a great system /s

Mallard T. Drake on January 28, 2008 at 12:46 AM

These doctors are just saying that the government shouldn’t pay for behaviorally-induced illness. If the doctors were referring to gay men who have HIV, some of the commentariat here would (gleefully) agree with them.

But since the doctors are referring to drinkers, smokers and the obese, which describes some of the commentariat here, you dissent.

Amazing how that works, isn’t it?

paul006 on January 28, 2008 at 1:12 AM

We really dodged a bullet when we dumped their tea, eh?

Black Adam on January 28, 2008 at 1:31 AM

Pretty much all the doctors I know and have known (including my “EX”) work their posteriors off.

Because the the government taxpayers pay for so much already and because of insurance with small or no co-pays, people go waste the time of the doctors for every little sniffle and headache. And because it is the government or some other bureaucracy writing the checks, they have to waste their productive time filling out tons of paperwork.

Other than a few top surgeons and specialists, and a few that have learned to scam the medicare gravy train, I haven’t seen any that are getting “paid more and more for doing less and less”.

LegendHasIt on January 28, 2008 at 1:38 AM

These doctors are just saying that the government shouldn’t pay for behaviorally-induced illness. If the doctors were referring to gay men who have HIV, some of the commentariat here would (gleefully) agree with them.

But since the doctors are referring to drinkers, smokers and the obese, which describes some of the commentariat here, you dissent.

Amazing how that works, isn’t it?

paul006 on January 28, 2008 at 1:12 AM

Dooowwwn, Skippy. Government healthcare goes waaay beyond social mores. It’s an open door to Big Brothermania!

How will they determine who is leading an unhealthy lifestyle?
Will they have government mandated microchips installed in potential patients to detect the number of adult beverages imbibed?
Will they have cameras in bedrooms to make sure gay men who have HIV are using appropriate protection appropriately?

What exactly is the government definition of “healthy lifestyle”? Will there be government workout centers where your microchip is sensed for a required duration 3 to 5 times a week?

Will there be different tiers of healthcare for the different levels of healthfulness?

Until proponents of government run healthcare can honestly look at the slippery slope that is healthcare rationing and address questions like these they should go back to the drawing board.

NTWR on January 28, 2008 at 1:56 AM

Seems to me that this would be a natural progression of socialism. As funds and other resources dwindle, rationing becomes more and more restrictive.

Say no to socialism.

Zorro on January 28, 2008 at 6:45 AM

Fertility treatment and “social” abortions are also on the list of procedures that many doctors say should not be funded by the state.

Well, at least we won’t have to worry about that little restriction under Hillarycare!

conservnut on January 28, 2008 at 7:05 AM

I’ve seen it. But I -still- don’t understand the Robot protecting the ice cave after they leave the city.

lorien1973 on January 27, 2008 at 11:10 PM

OT but…..
I read the book a long, long time ago and it’s explained much better. He was a cyborg. Basically a human brain in a robot body and he was the caretaker/maintenance worker for one of the city’s subsystems. When his services were no longer need he and his station were abandoned and forgotten. Over the ensuing years he went insane and spent most of his time carving ice sculptures.

jmarcure on January 28, 2008 at 7:27 AM

This clearly illustrates the problem with socialism which can be summed up in a single sentence: That which the state provides, the state can take away.

flipflop on January 28, 2008 at 7:36 AM

I think once Brittan accepts Islam as their religion, they will no longer need to worry about this. They will be cared for as all Kafur should be…

rgranger on January 28, 2008 at 7:43 AM

Well, Hillary will at least be all for the abortion part!
By the way, my litter brother, who is a surgeon pays about $80,000 a year in malpractice insurance, thanks to the lawyers suing everything that moves. We had no money growing up so he also had $350,000 in student loans after med school. Only took him 10 years to pay them off, so whenever I hear people complaining about how much doctors make it kind of grinds me. They only have about 30 years to make a living (especially surgeons) and pay back all the loans and insurance premiums. Socialized medicine only works for the rich who can afford to pay for private care. That’s the way it’s been in England for years. You don’t see any of the government officials going to the public hospitals, that’s for sure.

flytier on January 28, 2008 at 7:49 AM

I thought the government run health care systems were started so ALL could have access to free care??? I thought it was only the evil market based systems that denied health care to some people??? Oh,, I get it! The government doctors say these people don’t DESERVE the care! They aren’t being denied it because they can’t AFFORD it, it’s because they don’t DESERVE it!!! Silly me!!

JellyToast on January 28, 2008 at 8:06 AM

Jeepers! =p Well truth be told, I’m down with not wanting to pay for some fat drunk bastard with a 3 pack a day habit. But see, you cant take their tax money by force, then say “no bandaids for you, fatty”. Cause that’s effed up.

Dash on January 28, 2008 at 8:43 AM

Well isn’t that a rather passive aggressive way of dealing with their immigration problem. I guess it’s a start.

frreal on January 28, 2008 at 8:45 AM

Here in the U.S. we’re trying to figure out how to save Social Security. It’s very difficult to solve because the Left won’t go for privatization and no one wants to have to pay more taxes to support it, have to wait longer to retire, and so forth. Just imagine if we were debating whether or not the people collecting Social Security could be denied medical care because they were incontinent and not fully in control of their faculties.

It doesn’t take all that much skill to predict the future, especially when the future is now in England and Canada.

Buy Danish on January 28, 2008 at 8:50 AM

“…all men are created equal, & are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights: life…”
Roe v. Wade got the ball rolling. Mr. Schaivo pushed it along. Stanford professor Peter Singer, who says no baby should have any right to life until one month after birth, moves it further. And who was that Colorado governor who said old people should die & get out of the way? He’s old by now–did he follow his prescription?

jgapinoy on January 28, 2008 at 8:58 AM

You missed the key phrase in that article:

“…according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.”

That is the real lesson from this article.

matthewbit07 on January 28, 2008 at 9:08 AM

Humanism, on display

jp on January 28, 2008 at 9:23 AM

Dr Calland, of the BMA, said: “If a patient of 90 needs a hip operation [colonectomy] they should get one. Yes, they might peg out any time, but it’s not our job to play God.”

RIP G.B.Hinckley

maverick muse on January 28, 2008 at 9:24 AM

http://www.peopleforlife.org/francis.html

The abortion ruling is a very clear one. The abortion ruling, of course, is also a natural result of this other world view because with this other world view, human life — your individual life — has no intrinsic value. You are a wart upon the face of an absolutely impersonal universe. Your aspirations have no fulfillment in the “what-isness” of what is. Your aspirations damn you. Many of the young people who come to us understand this very well because their aspirations as Humanists have no fulfillment, if indeed the final reality is only material or energy shaped by pure chance.

The universe cannot fulfill anything that you say when you say, “It is beautiful”; “I love”; “It is right”; “It is wrong.” These words are meaningless words against the backdrop of this other world view. So what we find is that the abortion case should not have been a surprise because it boiled up out of, quite naturally, (I would use the word again) mathematically, this other world view. In this case, human life has no distinct value whatsoever, and we find this Supreme Court in one ruling overthrew the abortion laws of all 50 states, and they made this form of killing human life (because that’s what it is) the law. The law declared that this form of killing human life was to be accepted, and for many people, because they had no set ethic, when the Supreme Court said that it was legal, in the intervening years, it has become ethical.

The courts of this country have forced this view and its results on the total population. What we find is that as the courts have done this, without any longer that which the founding fathers comprehended of law (A man like Blackstone, with his Commentaries, understood, and the other lawgivers in this country in the beginning): That there is a law of God which gives foundation. It becomes quite natural then, that they would also cut themselves loose from a strict constructionism concerning the Constitution.

The result is a relativistic value system. A lack of a final meaning to life — that’s first. Why does human life have any value at all, if that is all that reality is? Not only are you going to die individually, but the whole human race is going to die, someday. It may not take the falling of the atom bombs, but someday the world will grow too hot, too cold. That’s what we are told on this other final reality, and someday all you people not only will be individually dead, but the whole conscious life on this world will be dead, and nobody will see the birds fly. And there’s no meaning to life.

As you know, I don’t speak academically, shut off in some scholastic cubicle, as it were. I have lots of young people and older ones come to us from the ends of the earth. And as they come to us, they have gone to the end of this logically and they are not living in a romantic setting. They realize what the situation is. They can’t find any meaning to life. It’s the meaning to the black poetry. It’s the meaning of the black plays. It’s the meaning of all this. It’s the meaning of the words “punk rock.” And I must say, that on the basis of what they are being taught in school, that the final reality is only this material thing, they are not wrong. They’re right! On this other basis there is no meaning to life and not only is there no meaning to life, but there is no value system that is fixed, and we find that the law is based then only on a relativistic basis and that law becomes purely arbitrary.

And at the same time we find the medical profession has radically changed. Dr. Koop, in our seminars for Whatever Happened to the Human Race, often said that (speaking for himself), “When I graduated from medical school, the idea was ‘how can I save this life?’ But for a great number of the medical students now, it’s not, ‘How can I save this life?’, but ‘Should I save this life?’”

Believe me, it’s everywhere. It isn’t just abortion. It’s infanticide. It’s allowing the babies to starve to death after they are born. If they do not come up to some doctor’s concept of a quality of life worth living. …..

….So what we find then, is that the medical profession has largely changed — not all doctors. I’m sure there are doctors here in the audience who feel very, very differently, who feel indeed that human life is important and you wouldn’t take it, easily, wantonly. But, in general, we must say (and all you have to do is look at the TV programs), all you have to do is hear about the increased talk about allowing the Mongoloid child — the child with Down’s Syndrome — to starve to death if it’s born this way. Increasingly, we find on every side the medical profession has changed its views. The view now is, “Is this life worth saving?”

I look at you… You’re an older congregation than I am usually used to speaking to. You’d better think, because — this — means — you! It does not stop with abortion and infanticide. It stops at the question, “What about the old person? Is he worth hanging on to?” Should we, as they are doing in England in this awful organization, EXIT, teach older people to commit suicide? Should we help them get rid of them because they are an economic burden, a nuisance? I want to tell you, once you begin chipping away the medical profession… The intrinsic value of the human life is founded upon the Judeo-Christian concept that man is unique because he is made in the image of God, and not because he is well, strong, a consumer, a sex object or any other thing. That is where whatever compassion this country has is, and certainly it is far from perfect and has never been perfect. Nor out of the Reformation has there been a Golden Age, but whatever compassion there has ever been, it is rooted in the fact that our culture knows that man is unique, is made in the image of God. Take it away, and I just say gently, the stopper is out of the bathtub for all human life.

Francis Schaeffer, 1983…..25 years ago.

jp on January 28, 2008 at 9:37 AM

It was this view that opened the door to all that followed in Germany prior to Hitler. It’s an interesting fact here that the only Supreme Court in the Western World that has ruled against easy abortion is the West German Court. The reason they did it is because they knew, and it’s clear history, that this view of human life in the medical profession and the legal profession combined, before Hitler came on the scene, is what opened the way for everything that happened in Hitler’s Germany. And so, the German Supreme Court has voted against easy abortion because they know — they know very well where it leads.

jp on January 28, 2008 at 9:39 AM

“Yes, they might peg out any time, but it’s not our job to play God.”

Unless they are babies in the womb. Then it’s okay to play God.

Speaking in the greater context of the degate, of course. Yes, I know the article isn’t about abortion, but it begs the question and gives me a platform to speak out accordingly.

Lawrence on January 28, 2008 at 9:49 AM

I could tell you horror stories from ‘behind the curtain’, but those among you with ‘a clue’ don’t need more anecdotes to know you’re right, and those that don’t will only continue to live in delusional denial regardless.

May the vicious nightmare of socialist healthcare never visit our shores.

LimeyGeek on January 28, 2008 at 10:04 AM

with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.

Well, there’s yer golden quote right there!

Frozen Tex on January 28, 2008 at 10:08 AM

with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.

So now no Univeral Healthcare and Substandard Care. Cool.

ronsfi on January 28, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Why not the HIV/AIDS patients? Is not their illness “behavior” related?

darkpixel on January 27, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Well, Fidel Castro quarantines HIV/AIDS patients. Maybe we should follow suit since he’s just SOOO wonderful…just ask Michael Moore.

Hmmmm, speaking of Tubbs Moore, wonder what he’ll think about not being eligible for all that socialized healthcare he thinks so much of since he’s obese. Oh wait, he won’t need it since he’s a millionaire.

hollygolightly on January 28, 2008 at 11:41 AM

If this an indication, it shows a marked difference between our medical system and the UK’s. I’ve experienced the first part of the statement here in S. Cal with my elderly clients, but if there’s money to be made, they push the pills or the proceedures or the surgeries that MIGHT help, but more often make them worse. They try to appear compassionate and Godlike but most of the time they aren’t doing His work at all.

This is from the daughter of a good MD/GP of the old school who didn’t play God but explained the drawbacks of various drugs and surgeries. Too bad those days are over.

Christine on January 28, 2008 at 12:21 PM

In the old Soviet Union a famous dissident was charged with the crime of parasitism because he was unemployed. He was unemployed because he could not get papers to work because of his political activism.

The State owned all property, including your apartment, the hospital, the grocery store, items supposedly subsidized for the benefit of all. Therefore, if you were unemployed you were a burden to the State. A leech.

Go to the gulag, but not before you go to a mental hospital. Many dissidents were declared mentally ill because anyone who opposed the goodness of the State was by definition mentally unbalanced.

Meanwhile the counter quote to today’s quote came from one of the two discoverers of DNA, James Watson, working in the US on genetic engineering
“People say we are playing God. My answer is: If we don’t play God, who will?”
There is a PBS documentary on him which includes this quote. It gave me chills.

Once you hand over the keys to the kingdom, they will use it

entagor on January 28, 2008 at 12:27 PM