Open thread: The “And then there were four” debate; Update: New Mitt ad mocks McCain
posted at 7:30 pm on January 24, 2008 by Allahpundit
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9 p.m. ET on MSNBC. “And then there were two and a half” would be more accurate. Giuliani’s still in the mix but he’s pulling only 11% on InTrade; Huckabee barely rates. If trends hold it’s Mitt versus McCain for all most of the marbles on Super Tuesday with Rudy and Huck hoping and praying (respectively) for miracles. McCain can expect flak from Romney on immigration and the economy and Rudy on that catastrophe fund he keeps bringing up to try to remind people of 9/11. Will Huck rally to Maverick’s side or let the other two take him apart? Look out for pandering praise for ol’ Fred too to try to win over any ‘Heads still on the fence. Mitt’s web team already has a little bait on the hook. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him attack MSNBC for laughing at Fred’s concession speech last weekend if the opportunity presents itself.
As for what McCain might have waiting for Romney, how about some straight talk about his mad economic skillz?
Video highlights later/during; as always, sound off below. While you wait, shed a tear for former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich as he inadvertently joins the vast right-wing conspiracy. (Ten years and going strong!) This is amusing too, from one of the lefty blogosphere’s leading lights. Follow the comments, as always.
Update: That didn’t take long.
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Let the games begin.
AUINSC on January 24, 2008 at 7:37 PM
good luck Mitt
Onager on January 24, 2008 at 7:38 PM
Poor Rudy. Wish he could steal McCain’s votes.
Still hoping Mitt takes Florida.
CABE on January 24, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Is there a stream?
mythicknight on January 24, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Off topic,
Regarding the “Stimulus Package”,
Why in God’s name didn’t Bush Demand permanent tax cuts and a 3 month moratorium on Income Tax–coupled with a decrease in spending?
I can’t believe what’s happening with our country..populism over facts and sound economic policy.
ColdBore76 on January 24, 2008 at 7:43 PM
mythicknight, MSNBC.msn.com will have one when it starts.
Spirit of 1776 on January 24, 2008 at 7:43 PM
With Fred out, I look forward to watching Mitt as the only conservative on the stage against a hoard of RINOs.
Its obvious that it’ll be Mitt-McCain-Mitt-McCain all night on everything from taxes to shamnesty and I just hope that Rudy will be helping Mitt bring down McCain instead of helping McCain bring down Mitt. Although, Mitt looks his best when under attack and we might see that tonight with Huckabee, McShamnesty, and Rudy on the stage.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Huckabee has been counted out from day one. Even now when he is second in the delegate count, people are saying he is finished. This guy NEVER gets his due - but then again maybe that’s a good thing because when he does better than expected the media is shocked. But no matter how many times he is dismissed, he rises again. Expect a big debate night for Huckabee and a BIG Florida bounce. Watch and see.
popularpolitics on January 24, 2008 at 7:49 PM
Huckabee will stick with the Maverick™, and go after Romney.
Slublog on January 24, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Rock n roll… let’s get it on!!
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 7:51 PM
PS — Oh, yeah, the other thing: The best candidate for the Republican nomination is Huckabee.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 7:52 PM
BAH! Would you people please stop referring to Romney as a “conservative”? He is not now nor has he ever been one.
I understand that not everyone shares my opinion about him, and I can respect the argument to be made for favoring Mitt over McCain, Rudy or Huckabee. But don’t pretend he’s a conservative- he isn’t. He’s a moderate in almost every sense of the word. At least know who you’re voting for, for cryin’ out loud.
Hollowpoint on January 24, 2008 at 7:53 PM
I hope Mitt gets to talk about his health care plan. It looked great before the libs in the MA Legislature got at it.
Opening up the market to more options:
Bringing Personal Responsibility to the Health care system:
And telling ambulance chasers like Breck Girl where to put their lawsuits:
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 7:53 PM
peski on January 24, 2008 at 7:54 PM
LOL
TX Mom on January 24, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Will post this here as well
This debate is your chance Mitt. I have yet to see you move me to vote for you.
Running on the theme “Im Mitt Romney vote for me because Im not John McCain” isnt enough.
What do you stand for Mitt ? What is important to you ? People questioned if Fred had Fire in his Belly I have to ask the same of you ?
Fed moved me with his conservative values and his willingness to fight for them. What do you value ? what do you stand for ?
I’ve read your Issues and I find them lacking. I know your history and I find it equally lacking.
I dont want to vote for the lesser of two evils. I want to vote for you. Will you fight to keep america strong in this time of war ? Is your stance on Immigration real or fake ?
Mitt shouldnt get the nomination handed to him. He needs to prove he deserves ot be president. Until then he does not have my vote.
William Amos on January 24, 2008 at 7:55 PM
I love you, man. I mean that; has nothing to do with the beer goggles.
I expect that Mitt’s message tonight will be polished finer than an orbitally-buffed, nearly transparent plastic Ken.
But what can I say? It’s last call and the goggles ain’t thick enough to make McCain attractive.
James OK on January 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM
John McCain spent years obsessively fighting to pass the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill that would legalize 20 million illegal aliens. If he becomes president he will get his wish and do it. A vote for John McCain is national suicide. Why is he even an option? Have you people lost your minds??
No.. I’m not kidding.
What is wrong with you???
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Gomer Huck…..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21615320@N06/2203519293/
I guess that short sh_t norris is his sgt carter…….
awesum on January 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Well said.
peski on January 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM
My message to Mike Huckabee and John McCain:
I’m all for your plans to deal with illegal immigration. With one condition: I get to move to Mexico and sneak back into the United States as an illegal immigrant. I stop paying taxes and start collecting welfare. I do this for about ten years. I send my kids to the University of Arkansas on Mike’s scholarships for illegals and the rest on in-state tuition. I finally decide I want to become a citizen and start paying taxes again. Under John’s plan, I would get to become a citizen for a $5,000 fine and you guys would forget about all those years I didn’t pay taxes and collected gov’t benefits. Do we have a deal? Awesome.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 7:58 PM
I’ve posted this before, but not everyone has seen it. Ignore the link if you have.
McCain’s Amnesty Bill Will Destroy America
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8425016241920182978
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:01 PM
The man has been campaigning night and day for 13 months. He has been asked the same questions hundreds of times and always answered in a calm and respectful manner.
He held hundreds “Ask Mitt Anything” events in dozens of states and they did indeed ask him anything.
If you were paying attention he would have proved it to you long ago.
EJDolbow on January 24, 2008 at 8:01 PM
What do you want from him?
Spirit of 1776 on January 24, 2008 at 8:01 PM
I’m thinking he wants Mitt to give all his money to Fred and drop out of the race. That would make him support Mitt. Anything short of that….and “Mitt’s nothing but a RINO!!!!!!!11111!!!!!1111!”.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Not only would 20 million illegal aliens become U.S. citizens, under the “family reunification” rules, these 20 million illegal aliens would also be able to bring their entire families into the U.S.
I have nothing against immigration, but there is a right way to do it.
Do you see the danger America is at right now with John McCain leading in the polls?? If he faces Hillary he will lose.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Calm down, hollowpoint. He is the conservative, relatively speaking.
Troy Rasmussen on January 24, 2008 at 8:08 PM
I don’t know what he thinks, but I’ll give him that he at least seems open to other candidates now. I tend to think that people who have previously focused on other candidates to the exclusion of others, don’t see the others in the full light. I’m sure that the details that Fred supporters would want has already been addressed. Mitt has had positions long before Fred and still does.
Some, like HP, I understand can’t reconcile his views with Mitt’s vis a vis AWB. But I don’t really understand people who say he hasn’t earned their vote. He has been working and even paying out of his own pocket so that people like WA can hear his message.
Spirit of 1776 on January 24, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Damn–I’m going to have to temporarily allow PMSNBC back on my TV. I’ll fumigate it tomorrow.
Mitt’s pimp hand had better be strong tonight, because Maverick and the Huckster sorely deserve a thorough b*tch-slapping for their RINOitis.
ReubenJCogburn on January 24, 2008 at 8:11 PM
High comedy indeed.
Wasn’t part of the big argument on the left during the SCHIP debate that people in metro areas making 80k were lower middle class?
SouthernDem on January 24, 2008 at 8:11 PM
Compared to McCain, Rudy, or Huck? Maybe, but that’s a pretty low hurdle to clear. I could accept as legitimate the argument (though it’s not clear if it’s true) that he’s the most conservative of the remaining moderates, but he’s still a moderate.
Hollowpoint on January 24, 2008 at 8:13 PM
It is beyond belief McCain is out front in the national polls, remember when he tried to force the amnesty bill through??
He didn’t listen to Americans… he did the exact opposite and ignored them. This guy is not leading the national polls?
Something is not right… this is INSANE.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:15 PM
At this point I have no idea who I’m going to support in the primary. I was going to vote for Hunter had he stayed in but he didn’t. Then I was going to turn my head and vote for Fred but he dropped out. The rest of these guys are just windbags with no substance behind them to back up what they are saying.
…except Ron Paul. **snicker…it’s still good for a laugh**
One of these guys better find a leper, a blind person, and a disabled person in this audience and heal them all tonight…otherwise I don’t see a change in my primary support.
For the General election it will be a survival vote for whoever comes out of this group.
Pilgrim on January 24, 2008 at 8:16 PM
Damn those fat-cats in Topeka!!
Deety on January 24, 2008 at 8:17 PM
On foreign policy, McCain said that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton do not get enough credit for their foreign policy “achievements”.
This same McCain is the frontrunner for the Republican party??
This is a dream… I mean a nIGHtmare.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:17 PM
McCain’s lunatic plan to legalize 20 million illegal aliens was so leftwing that even many Democrats opposed it.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:19 PM
Yea, Mitt will go negative
bnelson44 on January 24, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Dear Lord, that Meghyan Kylly is HOT…
Man…
benrand on January 24, 2008 at 8:25 PM
way o/t, but that Chuck Norris photo prompted me to introduce everyone to Conan’s “Walker Texas Ranger Lever” if they haven’t seen it already:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DpbzrdqqoFY
And you’ve GOT to see this clip from when Conan came back a few weeks ago… and took credit for Huckabee’s Iowa win (Conan put Chuck back on the map, and Chuck made Huckabee = Conna made Huckabee). To celebrate, Conan shows another classic Walker Texas Ranger clip (start watching around 3:45)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zBGOtBUb2BQ
Bottom line - Huckabee loves abusing women.
RightWinged on January 24, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Of course compared to “the three who shall not be named,” except for Rudy, who I kind of like. Who else is in the Race now? It’s a given that none of them are strong conservatives, but, there is no strong conservative who made it this far. It sucks, I know, but facts are facts.
Troy Rasmussen on January 24, 2008 at 8:26 PM
With Thompson out, who will remind them that if the illegals pay the fine, they still get to stay in the country
bml0424 on January 24, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Good! It will round out his image.
RushBaby on January 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM
Sorry, I always forget Ron Paul, silly me.
Troy Rasmussen on January 24, 2008 at 8:29 PM
Whatever you do, do not click this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhOSsix3XEk
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:33 PM
Heh. That’s not silly–I wish I was allowed to forget him as much as he deserves.
ReubenJCogburn on January 24, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Romney in a thong…yeah, I’d agree. Don’t click. Waste of time.
sulla on January 24, 2008 at 8:37 PM
This boils down to people vs. principles, style over substance. Didn’t we just have eight years of a President who could not think for himself, who merely parroted conservative talking points? That’s what Mitt Romney will bring us, and what makes him worse than George W. Bush is that he conveniently adopted several of those beliefs in the past couple of years.
A vote for him is a vote for an agenda, not a man.
Potfry on January 24, 2008 at 8:37 PM
I’ll be having my usual chat room during the debate. Come join us!
Rightwingsparkle on January 24, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Oh noes! Romney has changed his views in the last 14 years. Alert the media!
Jeff_McAwesome on January 24, 2008 at 8:39 PM
Bleh. I accidentally turned it on an hour early & caught a glimps of the Olberdouche trying to frame a question.
Something like
“Isn’t it now not easy to not attribute Obama’s drop in the polls to something related to the hint of something resembling a shade of a tone of something not unlike a racial overtone in the debate?”
Painful.
peski on January 24, 2008 at 8:40 PM
You guy’s are deluded and I don’t mean that in a mean way. Somehow, you hate Huckabee’s religion so much it’s clouded your judgment. Huck is the only one who can beat Hillary Clinton.
There is nothing funny about President Hillary Clinton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_EWdHfpi0
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:41 PM
He does, and it should be a warning to you.
Did Willard Mitt Romney March With Martin Luther King?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5eKfC6TYjk
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:43 PM
Wrong, and yet another demonstration that you just spew, you don’t listen. I don’t give a rat’s patootie about his religion. It’s is dishonest representation of his own crappy record combined with his holier-than-thou identity politics (usually revealed by a not-so-subtle crack at the OTHER guy’s religion), liberal “populist” policies, and his recent supposed conversion to border security (not so easy to reconcile with his actual record), not to mention his glee at raising taxes and helping Dems in his state get elected.
Other than that, he’s just kind of annoying.
peski on January 24, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Actually, I share Huckabee’s religion. I just strongly disagree with his views.
Slublog on January 24, 2008 at 8:46 PM
By the way, it’s not over yet.
Huck’s gaining momentum again…..•*´
We’re only getting started so fasten your seat belts.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:46 PM
The simple fact is that there is NOBODY but Mitt with even a 1% chance to be elected that will oppose Amnesty AT ALL. Mitt has been endorsed by Tancredo, DeMint, and Arpaio. McCain has been endorsed by the illegal aliens. There is just no choice but to vote for Mitt unless you want 100% certain Amnesty.
Igor R. on January 24, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Tax cuts with spending cuts is a laudable position to take, and that’s where McCain stands.
Vizzini on January 24, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Are you one of them calling him a liar and a con and bigot??
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Did Olberdouche fart from his mouth a big old
SIRRRRRR!!!!
benrand on January 24, 2008 at 8:48 PM
He’s obviously well-spoken, but what he said doesn’t distinguish him from the other top Republican candidates. Aren’t they all promising a similar stand?
mikeyboss on January 24, 2008 at 8:48 PM
POACHING ALLERT!!!
Entelechy on January 24, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Huck is broke. Your candidate sucks. He’s through.
CABE on January 24, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Huck is just a footnote in the “Successful Snake Oil Salesmen from Hope” compilation.
Igor R. on January 24, 2008 at 8:49 PM
I don’t believe he’s a con-man, but I do believe he is guilty at times of spinning the truth, and I’m not impressed by his Mormon-baiting.
Slublog on January 24, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Once AGAIN boys & girls: if the Clintdumbs or Barracko or McCain get in THERE WILL BE NO FENCE! I don’t think Willard Romney has a chance country-wide. There’s not enough mormons to elect him. Although he may be the guy to build the fence. Even if elected he would be up against the democrap congress. What a nightmare. We’re just going to have to defend our homes against the mexican hoards on our own. We’ll have to throw ‘em out on our own. For some unknown reason the government at all levels is deathly afraid of them. Why? I’m glad I’m old and won’t see them or the muslims destroy our nation or worse turn it into Europe!
countywolf on January 24, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Tax and spending cuts are fine, but Amnesty is not, my friend.
Igor R. on January 24, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Fully agree RB. Politics is not for the faint-hearted. Nice guys don’t win.
Entelechy on January 24, 2008 at 8:50 PM
apacalypse, great job tonight. Keep at it and it will do Romney much good. Your guy, not so much, but that will be good for the country.
Entelechy on January 24, 2008 at 8:52 PM
You just blew it there, buds with your own words. I don’t believe you don’t despise his religion or that it doesn’t effect your judgment. You see, I disagree with the premise for your rant. Huckabee is a man of faith and is a Christian leader, and he is not a person to hide his faith. He wears it openly and honestly. Guy’s like you turn it around though, and use it against him. Huckabee’ candidacy is about:
-The Fair Tax and abolshing the IRS.
-Winning in Iraq.
-Fighting the war on terror.
-Reforming our healthcare system.
-Fiscal repsonsibility.
-Securing our borders and reforming the immigration system.
-Energy independence.
-Protecting the sanctity of life.
-Protecting traditional marriage.
You manipulate and take advantage of Huck being a Christian to form your arguments against him.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:54 PM
Nice to see MSNBC has to air Olby before this debate. “Cringe”
flyboy777 on January 24, 2008 at 8:54 PM
RushBaby,Entelechy nice to see
your hear tonight,hehe.
Hey is fox covering this!
canopfor on January 24, 2008 at 8:55 PM
He uses it against himself with line’s like ‘doing the Lord’s work’ when clogging up phone lines, or that his soul won’t let him enforce immigration law - a position he’s flipped on. He uses it, not represents it.
Spirit of 1776 on January 24, 2008 at 8:58 PM
Thanks, Entelechy.
I agree with you, they do need help, but that’s why we’re here!
Thanks, once again. You’re too kind.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:58 PM
Are you really going to pollute the board every 2 minutes shilling for Huckabee?
lan astaslem on January 24, 2008 at 8:58 PM
blah, blah, blah…. yawn
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 8:59 PM
Well, it’s about that now. Unfortunately, he’s got a record to show his true colors.
And they’re “shining through.”
Slublog on January 24, 2008 at 9:00 PM
So, I tell you what I think and you call me a liar. I list the things that I actually don’t like about the guy (pretty mild statements, actually) and you call it a rant.
Just like Huck, you are a spinner. Caught in an almost lie, he bobs and weaves and waves his faith like a red cape in front of the bull.
Sorry dude, but ONLY a select crowd of kool aid drinking evangelicals support this loser - and he doesn’t even get a majority of like minded Christians. As for “Christians in general”, I think most see right through his BS. I know all my Christian friends do.
Dream on.
peski on January 24, 2008 at 9:02 PM
What?? No National Anthem?
fiatboomer on January 24, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Yet again, it is the way he uses and abuses it.
Actually he is probably the only Republican who would have no chance against her or any Democtrat for that matter. Well just maybe he could beat UFO Dennis.
MB4 on January 24, 2008 at 9:02 PM
After the last debate on FOX, this is going to be painful to watch on MSNBC.
ReubenJCogburn on January 24, 2008 at 9:02 PM
I want him to be at least as good as Fred on Issues. I havent seen that yet
William Amos on January 24, 2008 at 9:02 PM
why aren’t they boycotting MSNBC?
jp on January 24, 2008 at 9:03 PM
wheres the live feed?
windansea on January 24, 2008 at 9:03 PM
I think you’d be more welcome here.
Leave now, you’re not welcome in these threads.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Oh yeah, and his a pandering, lying POS too. Best friend LULAC ever had now signing the no-Amnesty pledge. Just watching him explain how his plan to deal with the illegals won’t penalize their children has got to be even worse than McLame explaining why Amnesty isn’t really Amnesty.
Igor R. on January 24, 2008 at 9:04 PM
BTW debate is on
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
William Amos on January 24, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Good, at least your not as bad as the others.
Personally, I think Romney should come out clean and explain the tennents of his faith, and I would ask the same of any candidate. What Romney and his Mormon friends like Glenn Beck have been doing lately, is to try and garner sympathy for just how “Christian” Mormonism is without ever actually addressing the fundamental tenets that Mormonism espouses. They are deceiving us. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
Instead of honestly and openly telling people that Mormons believe Jesus is Satan’s brother, they point out what they think are flaws in our soul, and how it is as dark as the one that Beck once exhibited during his days of drunkenness and debauchery.
I’m not voting for that. That is lying and conning you and me.
apacalyps on January 24, 2008 at 9:04 PM
windansea - msnbc.msn.com top and center will open a WMP window with the live stream.
Spirit of 1776 on January 24, 2008 at 9:04 PM
More specific, please.
Spirit of 1776 on January 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM
You make Mike Huckabee look even worse than he is.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Great Mitt defending the Housing crisis
William Amos on January 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM
I missed the National Anthem too, but then this is an enemedia network.
McCain’s lying about the Bush tax cuts again.
ReubenJCogburn on January 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM
You’ve done it for us. Thanks.
jwp
jwp1964 on January 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Mccain voted twice to make tax cuts permanent?
jp on January 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM
I’m told that’s this week’s position.
Last week: “I would not change my vote against the Bush Tax Cuts.”
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 9:06 PM
Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Since you can talk out of both sides of your mouth, why don’t you just talk to yourself?
peski on January 24, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Rudy sounds good when he talks about taxes.
malan89 on January 24, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Guiliani shilling for McCain ever so slightly
flyboy777 on January 24, 2008 at 9:09 PM
Did McShamnesty vote twice to make the Bush tax cuts permanent?
csdeven on January 24, 2008 at 9:09 PM
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