Video: Anonymous flyer attacks McCain’s years in the Hanoi Hilton
posted at 1:35 pm on January 17, 2008 by Bryan
The South Carolina primary has gone bare knuckle, with push-polling and a swipe at, of all things, John McCain’s military service record. That’s the one and only aspect of McCain’s record that’s unassailable. As a military man, he was absolutely heroic. As a politician, though, he leaves much to be desired.
The question is, who would be dumb enough to attack McCain on the former and not the latter? It’s hard to believe that any actual campaign had anything to do with this.
Update: Here’s the flyer’s source.
Blowback
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There’s a lot of folks who think McQueeg betrayed POWs left behind in Viet Nam. Rush’s been talking about it regarding Perot this morning…
snickelfritz on January 17, 2008 at 1:38 PM
I can’t see the video right now, but the flyer comes from this guy. Apologies if it’s already in the video.
amerpundit on January 17, 2008 at 1:38 PM
Some of the commenters at Hot Air?
Buy Danish on January 17, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Unless that campaign is McCain’s
liberrocky on January 17, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Great catch.
Vizzini on January 17, 2008 at 1:42 PM
First Read:
amerpundit on January 17, 2008 at 1:42 PM
I knew I’d seen the animation in the screencap before, and then remembered the site. The First Read post confirmed it.
amerpundit on January 17, 2008 at 1:43 PM
I smell Willard Romney’s hair spray all over this ad!
HaraldHardrada on January 17, 2008 at 1:44 PM
H. Ross Perot
P. James Moriarty on January 17, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Of course you do.
Bugler on January 17, 2008 at 1:47 PM
Even though the actual ad makers have been identified?
Nuance.
Slublog on January 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Every candidate will be attacked by these wacky guys. Mitt was set up on by those phony telephone polls, people have claimed Thompsons hired a polling group, Rudy was pointed out as someone who hired “dirty trick” men.
Wacky people, with a few bucks, that obsess about someone or something.
I just wish they would expose these nuts, so we could all point at them and laugh.
Unfortunately, there are always a few people who say they have the right to protest…even if the protest is meant to destroy.
Remember, 10% of the people think Elvis is still alive, and a huge % believe we have been visited by aliens from outer space..and we all know that’s impossible, they actually came from another time dimension.
right2bright on January 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Has more of a Huckstench, really.
Mitt smells like apples.
snickelfritz on January 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Funny, I smelled Michael “Is Satan Jesus’ Brother? Me Not Know.” Huckabee’s discount blessed wine all over it.
BKennedy on January 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Maybe the people doing this are mentally ill. They obviously want to hurt him, but this will only garner sympathy and increase support for McCain, because mentally healthy human beings are hard-wired to feel the way we act, and feelings always follow actions. So this type of attack compels people to defend the object of the attack, thereby increasing the likeability of the person being attacked.
JustTruth101 on January 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM
I bet it was the same crooks that Huckster has doing his illegal push polling.
Maybe?
I don’t think he is above it.
TheSitRep on January 17, 2008 at 1:50 PM
McCain’s campaign is almost exactly like John Kerry’s.
VOTE FOR ME – I WAS IN VIETNAM!
By that rationale the most qualified people to run for President are Jesse Ventura (Navy Seal) and Oliver North. John McCain has a lot of supporters, but most of them are not Republicans.
joncoltonis on January 17, 2008 at 1:50 PM
Since when has fact ever matter to a Huck supporter?
csdeven on January 17, 2008 at 1:56 PM
SECOND LOOK AT OLIVER NORTH FOR PRESIDENT!
TX Mom on January 17, 2008 at 1:57 PM
It’s got to be a Clintonian move from within the McCain campaign formulated to draw sympathy. And it will, big time.
Griz on January 17, 2008 at 1:57 PM
SECOND LOOK AT THE BODY FOR PRESIDENT!
Vizzini on January 17, 2008 at 2:02 PM
As a combat vet, I do not believe anyone is above question.
cowtipper on January 17, 2008 at 2:09 PM
Until I learn of positive proof of any kind of misbehavior re McCain while in Hanoi Hilton, I shall consider such allegations a hybrid of Trooferism. He is not my candidate of choice, but his service record should remain above reproach until reproach carries hard evidence in tow.
The “flyer” in question is vile.
thejackal on January 17, 2008 at 2:11 PM
I’m not about to say these accusations are true, but can anyone here dispute them? Are they false? Bogus? I’m curious to know if these charges have been shown to be bogus or if his supporters are simply using the John Kerry defense that it’s simply a smear campaign and that’s that.
Which parts of the accusations on THIS PAGE have been shown to be false? Can someone help me out please? I haven’t been able to find a single source who actually explains why the charges are inaccurate.
Again, I have no idea if the story is true or false, but I’d love it if I could find one single person who can offer some kind of factual debunking, rather than simply saying “how dare they question a Vet’s record.”
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:11 PM
LoL. I’d like to introduce you to a friend of mine, though I suspect you’ve already met. Her name is Shameless… Oh, look! She recognizes you.
Lehosh on January 17, 2008 at 2:12 PM
What exactly IS his service record? The only record we hear about is that he was captured in Vietnam and held as a POW. The accusations on this page include some pretty detailed information, including photos and what appear to be accusations that would easily be verified as true or false. Can anyone actually do that? Are they true, or false? It’s not like the charges leveled are anything that can’t be disproved with very little effort, if they are false.
Again, I’m not saying they are true or false, but aren’t those dismissing them offhand doing exactly what John Kerry supporters did? And what is the difference between what this group is doing, and what the Veterans for Truth did against John Kerry. Why was that acceptable, and this is not?
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Sorry this sort of stuff has no place in the campaign. Now I know people are going to draw parallels to the campaign against John Kerry but there are some significant differences. First off it is indisputable that McCain spent 7 years in a POW camp. Kerry couldn’t remember where he was!
Whatever happened as a result of his being held POW, which may or not have been used for propaganda purposes, I won’t hold against him. As for their beef with him getting medals based on actual time in combat, I daresay time spent in a POW camp is time spent in combat.
The argument about him getting special treatment because he was the son of an Admiral falls into the duh category. It is the same reason the Brits wouldn’t let Prince William or Harry go to Iraq and the same reason the left’s argument of about the Bush twins enlisting is bogus.
If they have some beef with his telling of what happened to him while serving that is separate, but so far it seems to be because he wasn’t Rambo.
Full disclosure. I don’t like McCain as a presidential candidate, but that is based on his stance on issues. I think these guys are wrong in this instance and I am not going to spend a whole lot of time browsing their site to see what their real beef is.
Just A Grunt on January 17, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Gregor, with all due respect, it’s sometimes impossible to prove that something is false. That is why our system of justice, and logic itself, requires that an allegation be proven true by sufficient evidence before being accepted, with evidence defined as an objective demonstration of fact as viewed by a reasonable person or ordinary judgment, intelligence and experience.
It is documented fact that McCain served and suffered in service to this country. Unless there’s proof otherwise, I’m not buying it.
JustTruth101 on January 17, 2008 at 2:28 PM
I couldn’t tell you. My own personal contempt for John Kerry had nothing to do with his service record, although I obviously must admit it came under fire. If McCain’s comes under fire, then so be it.
However, it is one thing for former service members to question the record of another service member; it is quite another to challenge the “official” story in the guise of some fruitcake student union comic book. Like Loose Change, it smacks of an amateur character assassination attempt made by a desperate and injudicious source.
thejackal on January 17, 2008 at 2:29 PM
It doesn’t take a lifetime. It takes 15 minutes. The reality is that these charges are either true, or false. If they are false, than it should be extremely easy to disprove because they are very specific charges. If they are true, than it’s absolutely absurd to say it’s no big deal. Read the page. The charges against McCain, in my opinion, are even worse than what what said about John Kerry.
Actually, according to these charges, that’s not necessarily true. It’s being charged that McCain spent much of his time in “captivity” away from the POW camp and in more “luxurious” conditions due to his connections. Photos do show him to have a very odd relationship to the same men who were responsible for torturing him and his fellow soldiers.
Is this true? Or is it false. We should not be simply ignoring it.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:32 PM
A poor ability to identify smells is a sign of mental illness.
Buy Danish on January 17, 2008 at 2:36 PM
That’s actually horsecrap. The charges on this page (if you bothered to read them) would be extremely easy to disprove if they’re false. There’s nothing vague about the charges. There are photos of him having lunch in luxurious settings at a time when his fellow vets were in bamboo cages being starved. Are these photos true? Are they photoshopped? Where are they taken and when? How hard is that to prove? And if they are true, what the Hell was John McCain doing sitting in a plush setting dining with the same men he claims tortured him?
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM
It’s funny that this is the same exact line the liberals used in defending John Kerry against his accusers. You do realize that, right?
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:38 PM
I dispise McVain, but this is gutter-politics, the great United States of America is above this trash-talking.
omnipotent on January 17, 2008 at 2:41 PM
This is what it’s like to debate with Gregor:
You: reasonable, well-thought, articulate, logical proposition inviting additional debate
Gregor: horsecrap! I’m not, but you are!
You: decide not to waste any more time debating with Gregor, didn’t realize he was a putz
JustTruth101 on January 17, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:32 PM
No the charges of soft treatment stem from a place called the Plantation. McCain spent a little time there and then was transfered to the notorious Hanoi Hilton. The Viet Cong were not stupid and if they thought they could be better served by giving him medical attention for use as a future propaganda tool then that is what they would do.
I did go read some of the beefs and most of it revolves around what they didn’t see and then some off hand remarks he has made on the campaign trail.
Where are these photos you are talking about? Shouldn’t take anybody with a critical eye but a few minutes to discern whether they are real.
Just A Grunt on January 17, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Ask his hat.
I hear it’s magic.
Slublog on January 17, 2008 at 2:45 PM
So every time a nutcase raises some issue…we investigate.
Why not look at the website, and see it is a wacko, a sick person of no substance. Oh you don’t see that? Gee, I wonder why you can’t see his accuser of being obsessive and sick? Hmmm, why can’t you see that? Hmmmm…
McCain (and others like him) suffered like you could never imagine, and you want him “investigated”, he paid his price. And his price did not include answering wack job accusations.
Nut cases should not be answered…sorry I just broke my own rule.
right2bright on January 17, 2008 at 2:47 PM
good point
JustTruth101 on January 17, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Your words are better then mine.
right2bright on January 17, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Hahaha! What part of your response fit into this “well-thought, articulate, logical” category?
You basically said … he’s a vet and because of that attacks are off limits.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Are we supposed to refuse to examine the captivity and supposed torture of a man who wants to be the guy with his finger on the button of a nuclear arsenal in a world where his supposed torturers are still our foes? We must like living dangerously.
Will the Democrats ignore that five ton gorilla in the living room once McCain is nominated?
Buddahpundit on January 17, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Really? Are you referring to his fellow veterans? Is that who you’re calling wacko, sick, and of no substance?
Okay.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Is this all just made up?
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 3:05 PM
http://hickeysite.blogspot.com/2008/01/john-mccain-heres-truther-jerry-kiley.html
Is THIS just all made up, too. It’s another side of the story.
FishFearMe on January 17, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Try this, you only accepts links. So you will like this.
*
So you are saying if you serve, then you cannot be a wacko? So you think John Kerry is a man of integrity…there was this soldier, and honored soldier who did this.
*
So you think a guy who puts up any website has integrity because he served? You have a very low standard for integrity.
And don’t try to intimidate someone with the “fellow veterans” card. Veterans, just like anyone else, can be a wacko.
HAHAAHA, “Are you referring to his fellow veterans? Is that who you’re calling wacko, sick, and of no substance?”
OOOOOOh, the big gotcha trap, calling veterans evil…weak, very weak…now try to support this kooks claims.
I hear you, gregor, raped a small child once, when no one was watching…now prove you didn’t do it.
right2bright on January 17, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Wow, that flyer is pretty disgusting. Especially the part about McCain losing five aircraft, considering they count the one he was shot down in and this one too.
BohicaTwentyTwo on January 17, 2008 at 3:09 PM
I don’t get it. There’s nothing in that article that claims to debunk any of the claims. Not one. It’s an entire article labeling the accusers of being Truthers.
Of course.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Gregor -
Why are you asking others to disprove the assertions on the flyer and site rather than doing your own research to verify or refute them?
A google will tell you that McCain spent two years in solitary confinement and has an apparently corroborated account that he refused early release, following first-in, first out code of conduct. Excerpt from a bio of him:
BillINDC on January 17, 2008 at 3:10 PM
This isn’t new. I remember reading about his alleged favored treatment years ago. Have no idea if it is true, but I have always been intensely aggravated by his exploitation of those years. I’ve also read accounts of many of our POWs acting in truly heroic fashion, and see little evidence of their constant use of the experience for personal gain.
a capella on January 17, 2008 at 3:13 PM
I was wondering when and if this was ever going to brought up here. The VVAMcCain has been around for a long time. I have several theories on the flyers. Take your pick.
1) It was really done independently by the VVAMcCains, but they are morons who didn’t consider the fact that bringing it up in a pro-military state where McCain is running first, would immediately push up the sympathy/outrage vote for McCain and give him some extra free media facetime.
2) McCain’s campaign staff used the material for the above reason.
2) Huckabee’s campaign did it because it would ensure (for the same above reason) that the pro-military vote would go to McCain and not Thompson.
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Well, For what it is worth, (not much) I first heard stuff like this back in 1974.
A couple of my somewhat more experienced ‘drinking buddies’ were Son Tay Raiders (and no, I’m not saying that McCain was in Son Tay, but these guys were much involved in other POW intel ops afterwards too) and another had been in the “Hanoi Hilton”.
Now remember; this was long before anyone expected him to be a Senator, much less a candidate for President, so I don’t remember any details, but I DO remember them saying that they didn’t trust “that d@m^ed Admiral’s son”.
LegendHasIt on January 17, 2008 at 3:17 PM
As to the specific allegations, one of them is based on Hanoi’s press as the source:
If you feel like regarding the NVA regime’s press as a valid source, that’s your silly option.
The second claims he made radio broadcasts against America at the behest of his captors. And you’re right, that should be easy to prove or disprove.
Get to work and find a recording of the broadcast, if you have suspicions. Seems like such recordings would exist, and have been rolled out by now in his decades-long political career, no?
BillINDC on January 17, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Not at all. Is there some evidence you have that these veterans are whackos … other than the fact that they don’t agree with you? But it seems that you believe that if you serve, you can’t be a liar. Unless you’re a Democrat of course. Then it’s all fair game, right?
Errr … I think it was you who used that tactic by suggesting that because John McCain served his country, all attacks were off-limits.
I’m not supporting them or arguing against them. He’s got photos and extremely detailed information that is easily debunked if not true.
Do you have any photos, eye-witness testimony, or other factual evidence like those attacking McCain do?
No? Didn’t think so.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 3:18 PM
@Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Yes or No: Have you stopped beating your wife?
thejackal on January 17, 2008 at 3:19 PM
I don’t think any question that Gregor has asked is out of line. He has asked if the evidence that is behind some accusations is credible or not, and as far as I am concerned he was respectful in doing so.
I am not comfortable with the lack of emotional stability and vindictiveness that McCain has exhibited, and whether he is a hero or not is not relevant to that. Anyone who calls me a racist for being concerned about respect for the law and the integrity of our borders would be much more comfortable in the Democrat party, where name-calling is more readily substitued for argument.
drunyan8315 on January 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM
When they say he ran a similar group opposed to John Kerry’s candidacy they’re not referring to Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry, are they? Because I think that organization was headed by Bruce Kesler, and wasn’t affiliated with this nutbar, although I could be mistaken. I know that it was one of the groups that went to Boston to protest outside of the DNC.
Gerard on January 17, 2008 at 3:21 PM
This just jumped out at me and made me wonder something. Why is it his military record must not be questioned by other military heros and their families (the author of this flyer lost his son in Vietnam)?
The Kennedys, Clintons and many people I know personally have taught me a lesson. People are not dishonest, disloyal or dishonorable in only one area of their lives.
If a man will cheat on his wife, he will cheat his constituents. If a man cheats on his taxes he will cheat his employees or customers. If a man will hit a woman, he will hit a child.
The bottom line is, since we know John McCain is a disloyal husband (he aditted cheating on his first wife) and a disloyal Republican, why can’t we even entertain the thought he was disloyal while in the military?
Just wondering.
EJDolbow on January 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM
The question may be who would be smart enough.
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 3:31 PM
The genesis of the story seems to begin here
And then, today here, claiming a “link” to the Swift Boat Veterans…Although, I can’t find a link, anywhere on the Vietnam Veterans Against McCain site.
This has nothing to do with Romney, or any other Republican candidate.
Pure Left-Wing Tripe
franksalterego on January 17, 2008 at 3:33 PM
Frakking steaming here…
This. Is. Off. Limits. Period.
They might as well be spray painting The Wall as far as I’m concerned.
Limerick on January 17, 2008 at 3:35 PM
Reminds me of those flyers that circulated during Islamofacism Awareness week.
Sultry Beauty on January 17, 2008 at 3:44 PM
I want to know…
-who wrote it
-who proof read it
-who pasted it up
-who printed it
-who distributed it
-who paid for it
All scum. The companies, the individuals, everyone who touched it. Anyone who thinks this is fair play, or free enterprise, or just plain ol politics, need to come on down to the VFW and explain yourself. Then we will explain ourselves.
Limerick on January 17, 2008 at 3:46 PM
I had the same thought.
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Wow, there are a number of posters on this site that are happy to speculate that Mitt is behind this. I don’t believe it. Chances are better that it is from hothead McCain’s own campaign.
tgillian on January 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Will you feel the same way if it was the McCain campaign that is responsible?
Think about it. In the short term, who is the only one to benefit?
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 3:50 PM
Actually, something just fired in my head. My thought says that this is a liberal front group trying to smear McCain with easily falsifiable allegations in attempt to “prove” the Swiftboat Veterans were lying about Kerry, 4 years after Kerry lost.
Kerry himself can’t get over it, and I’m sure he has enough sympathisers willing to try and exhonerate him to pull a vicious, idiotic stunt like this. What they would seek to do is set up a narrative where questioning someone’s military record is unassailable, thus “proving” Bush stole 2004 because he was using an illegitimate tactic.
Yeah, it sounds crazy to me too, but Kossacks and Huffposters spout this kind of crap on a regular basis, and I wouldn’t put it past the fight fight fightin’ nutroots.
Their problem is that unlike Kerry, McCain never slandered his fellow men in a manner reminiscent of Benedict Arnold.
BKennedy on January 17, 2008 at 3:51 PM
On Tuesday, within hours of the first reports of the veterans’ flier, Mr. McCain’s campaign held a conference call with reporters to denounce the mailing, which showed a cartoon of Mr. McCain in a prison cell. Writing on the wall behind him said “Elect Me, Elect Me, P.O.W. for President” and “An Enormous Crime, The P.O.W.’s I Helped Leave Behind.”
Orson Swindle, a former prisoner of war with Mr. McCain in Vietnam, also issued a statement on Tuesday calling the flier a “vicious” fraud. “Nothing could be further from the truth,” the statement said. “I know because I was there. The truth is, the North Vietnamese offered John McCain early release, and he refused.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/us/politics/17carolina.html?_r=1&ex=1358312400&en=263bdf7f81bb87de&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=login
bnelson44 on January 17, 2008 at 3:53 PM
I thought about that, but it would make more sense for them to pull something like that in the general. There is really no (or little) benefit for the left to pull something like this right now.
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Ready to go, were they?
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 3:57 PM
The Washington Post “While the McCain camp sent out e-mails immediately decrying [one attack] flier and the phone calls, his opponents questioned whether the senator’s true intent was to bat down the attacks or if he is more interested in garnering sympathy and attention.”
bnelson44 on January 17, 2008 at 4:00 PM
True, but they probably wern’t sure if McCain was going to get the nomination, and know if McCain wins, so do liberals. KP and other Democrat strategists can’t stop talking about how great McCain is, and following Ann Coulter’s first rule (never take advice from your political opponents), setting McCain up as St. John is the perfect way to assure a win.
They’re launching this now in the hopes that the rumor mill will push McCain to the top out of sympathy, if not in the general than at least in South Carolina.
BKennedy on January 17, 2008 at 4:02 PM
The exact same thing happened to them in 2000 in SC and sunk his campaign. He learned from his experience.
By the way Romney hired one of the hit men from the 2000 smear.
bnelson44 on January 17, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Wow, there are a number of posters on this site that are happy to speculate that Mitt is behind this…
tgillian on January 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Bloggers too.
Right al-mo-some of the time?
Gerard on January 17, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Maybe a Leftie group is pushing this crap in order to give McVain a sympathy win in SC (giving him some momentum and keeping him in the hunt).
/conspiracy
omnipotent on January 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
I really don’t care if Willard made this ad or not.
Willard Romney is a non candidate as far as I’m concerned…he is completely unelectable in the general election. He might as well drop out now!
HaraldHardrada on January 17, 2008 at 4:17 PM
I wouldn’t put it past him.
MB4 on January 17, 2008 at 4:18 PM
I didn’t know that. I was about ready to tell BKennedy that he could be right after all. The only two I was ready to write off as possibilities for being behind this were Thompson, and with some reservations, Romney. Just because of the class factor – although I guess it was already shown that some Romney supporters did indulge in some dirty stuff earlier on. (the fake Fred site)
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Is anyone else having trouble loading this page? My computer’s frozen a few times already.
Anyway, the Schlussel aside strikes me as pretty libelous in the generic, if not legal, sense of the term. Then again, she also accused Chuck Norris of essentially being bribed in return for his endorsement of Mike Huckabee, so there you go.
Gerard on January 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM
I’m not, and I’ve done research. I can’t find anything that even attempts to explain the very specific accusations being made. All counter-attacks seem to use two methods:
One – Attack the accuser for daring to question the record of a Veteran while at the same time throwing out the “it’s all documented” line.
Two – Attacking the accuser by labeling them Truthers, whackos, or nutjobs.
Again, nobody (including me) has questioned whether or not McCain served in Vietnam, was captured, and/or held as a POW. This has never been questioned, so I’m not sure what you’re attempting to disprove with this.
I’m not asking people to disprove it for me. I’m blasting those who simply blow the accusations off because he’s a Vet and that should be off limits. Those accusing him are also Vets AND POWs, and the same people have absolutely no problem at all attacking them and labeling them “whackos, Truthers, and nutjobs.” That’s a bit hypocritical.
That’s all I’m saying. Just read the thread here and count how many times someone says it’s off-base to even question him. So why wasn’t it off-base to question Kerry? There’s more evidence supporting this group than there was against Kerry.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Well, I’m certainly going to take advice from a man whose preferred candidate gets 6% support from non-evangelicals and 50% or less support from them.
HuckaShmuck should go back to his Mormon hatorade speeches, he probably got paid better.
BKennedy on January 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Yes, but it’s not just Hot Air. My Internet has been going on and off all day.
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 4:25 PM
I lived in Minnesota during “The Mind’s” term as governor. He was a complete failure.
Jesse was NEVER a Navy Seal and he was NEVER in Vietnam. The closest he got was a boat off the shore of S. Vietnam after the U.S. already pulled out.
Jesse ran like Huckabee, put out a lot of mythology and half truths and just like Huckabee, Jesse’s supporters prefered the myth over the truth.
Sammy316 on January 17, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Maybe you’re living in some cave somewhere and didn’t notice this, but all those SCUM you’re referring to just happen to also be VFWs.
Ironic, isn’t it. Suddenly you have no problem viciously attacking and smearing POWs and Veterans of War.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 4:25 PM
That is pretty low. Someone like Waffles was a disgrace and a real traitor, but this is not the case with McCain.
Hening on January 17, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Oof! My long-suffering keyboard!
I wonder if they still make/sell those keyboard skins.
sloopy on January 17, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Poor lairs give lots of details, good ones don’t.
MB4 on January 17, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Really? I could swear that it’s a proven documented fact that John McCain has been repeatedly lying to the American people, looking us right in the eye and swearing that he never supported amnesty. John McCain flips the bird at 80% of the American population, but you just can’t even imagine him capable of exagerating his military record?
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Just because there are 120 million very devout Christians in this country who believe they will be raptured before the tribulation and not one of them will vote for Romney under any circumstances, doesn’t necessarily mean Romney is completely unelectable!
If he gets every single democrat to vote for him 4 or 5 times each(using dead people’s names) he might have a chance!
Go Romney!
HaraldHardrada on January 17, 2008 at 4:35 PM
They do seem to not care if they go that route. I am not saying they are behind this attack though. These seem to be a fringe group some of which were Ross Perot supporters. For all I know they support Ron Paul today.
bnelson44 on January 17, 2008 at 4:35 PM
LOL! Brilliant.
Of course. Photos and military records mean absolutely nothing. A really good liar would have just yelled John McCain sucks and you all would have taken that as fact.
Sarcasm off
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Anything is possible in this race. Just when you’ve thought you’ve seen it all, you haven’t. I have a headache.
Connie on January 17, 2008 at 4:40 PM
You may have missed my point – completely!
A good lair would give enough details to be believable, but not any more than needed as the more details one gives, if they are untrue, the more chances for him to trip himself up.
If someone gives a lot of details he is either telling the truth or he is a very stupid lair.
MB4 on January 17, 2008 at 4:47 PM
OK, after a bit of googling.
It looks like the group behind the flier is a group of Vietnam Vets who think that there were POWs in Cambodia long after Vietnam and that the US didn’t do enough to get them out. They blaim McCain and others for this inaction. That is what is behind this smear. The real “brains” behind the opporation is someone by the name of Ted Sampley
who runs a group called U.S. Veteran Dispatch.
Although Ted Samply was a Ross Perot supporter, he now supports Duncan Hunter as he posts at the bottom of his article pages here.
bnelson44 on January 17, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Kerry advertised his knavish escapades, leaving plenty of AP newsreel footage on his record. He also claimed place/time to have been in Cambodia that his military record disputes. His comrades themselves all made their statements public, pro and con.
McCain initially ran for public office as a newcomer war hero in Arizona against opponents from prominent political families. His record as an American POW in Vietnam simply stands as is.
A gutter mouthing character assassin needs to do his own research before wishing ill of an American veteran. RESEARCH requires finding original sources and ALL applicable documentation and cross referencing for verity. Quit asking others to do your dirty work for you, Gregor. You have set your assignment out for yourself to achieve. Be off with you.
maverick muse on January 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM
ADM Jim Stockdale on McCain
bnelson44 on January 17, 2008 at 4:50 PM
I understand that, but the reality is that not a single person is bothering to debunk any of these very detailed accusations. So, at this point, the “telling the truth” option would seem the most likely.
Gregor on January 17, 2008 at 4:52 PM
These allegations have been out there a LONG time.
If they were not documented, then why would McCain not SUE the guys making the allegations? It would seem to me that even though he is a public figure, these are VERY specific allegations made to hurt him. If untruthfull he has a case…
Problem is, like I said, these have been hanging around for years… and NOT been disprooven…
Now, as unpalatble as it is, IF its true, it needs to be out there in the public so people can make a reasonable conclusion about McCain.
I admit… the fact that he is an ANTI-US ACE (managed to loose 5 planes… without a single kill to his credit) really makes me wonder if I want him Piloting this country…
Kinda like Jimmy Carter’s Navy Carreer… when he kinda ran a Submarine aground…
Romeo13 on January 17, 2008 at 4:54 PM
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