Mike Huckabee and the “Shiite Republicans” Updated
posted at 12:00 pm on January 10, 2008 by Bryan
Yesterday in Allah’s post about the Baptist who’s not endorsing Huckabee, I updated with a link to this article that summarizes conservative issues with Mike Huckabee’s tenure as Arkansas governor. The author, David J. Sanders, lists several specific things that Huckabee did that irritated the state’s Republicans, to the point that the Democrats increased their power during Huckabee’s tenure.
In 2000, Huckabee insisted on controlling the state party’s separate Victory Committee, but the committee’s finances were so poorly handled that a Federal Election Commission investigation resulted in the largest fine ever handed down by the FEC to a state party. That same year Republican Rep. Jay Dickey lost the 4th District seat he’d held for eight years.
In 2001, when conservative Republican lawmakers opposed a higher sales taxes and fees the governor supported, he began calling them “Shiites.” Huckabee’s positions on fiscal policy became indistinguishable from Democrats’ positions. A year later, he openly campaigned against a ballot initiative to remove the sales tax on food and medicine. While he and Rockefeller won re-election in 2002, Sen. Tim Hutchinson didn’t.
In 2003, Huckabee not only begged lawmakers for new taxes to make up a budget shortfall, but he rebuffed conservatives’ (Republicans and a couple of Democrats) plan to cover the shortfall by tapping one-time money and cutting pork. In 2004, President Bush won re-election, but Huckabee campaigned for some Democrats – even some who had Republican opponents – and Republicans lost state legislative seats for the first time since 1990.
In 2005, a term-limited Huckabee frustrated conservatives when he pushed a bill to give in-state college tuition and scholarships to the children of illegal immigrants. The next year, Democrats swept Republicans in every race for statewide constitutional office and Republicans lost legislative seats for the second consecutive election cycle.
Curious about the lack of specifics in the paragraph about Huckabee campaigning with some Democrats, I followed up with Sanders to get some names. And he provided one and is hunting for more.
As for a race in which Huckabee worked to defeat a Republican, there was a legislative race in Mountain Home, Arkansas, where Huckabee helped Democrat Benny Magness in his race against Republican Shawn Womack. Womack won.
Campaigning for the other party is bad enough, but it’s the “Shiite Republicans” moniker that disturbs me more. He started using it in 2001 and continued using it afterward. It’s the kind of attack that conservatives regularly get from the likes of the Daily Kos and other leftists who gleefully refer to conservatives and particularly Christian conservatives as the “Taliban wing” of the GOP or “America’s Taliban.” It’s a smear, and one that no Republican should lob at others and particularly not at conservatives, who are the base of the party.
I wondered if there was evidence outside Sanders’ article for Huckabee’s smear. There is. Here’s an article from December mentioning it.
There’s a species of Republican true believers right here in Arkansas who’ve always suspected his bona fides as an honest-to-goodness fiscal conservative and social reactionary. They’re largely to be found up in the hills, which tend to be Republican territory in any Southern state because of complicated historical, ethnic, economic and geological reasons having to do with soil, slavery and the plantation system. Back when he was a feisty, hefty pol instead of a walking –– no, running –– advertisement for weight loss, Brother Huckabee used to fondly refer to such critics as Shi’ite Republicans.
That author is joining Huckabee’s smear to pile on fiscal conservatives like the Club for Growth, whom Huckabee calls the “Club for Greed.”
Does Huckabee ever talk about any Democrat group or faction with similar insults? If he has, I haven’t heard it.
These smears get to the root of the problem I have with Huckabee. Instinctively, he is not a conservative. He’ll say conservative things in order to win approval from some part of the party’s base, but when push comes to shove he instinctively goes for the non-conservative side of the argument. I’m not just talking about calling Republicans “Shiites,” a quote that’s sure to get played over and over again if he’s the nominee, or about his raising taxes rather than cutting spending as the Arkansas “Shiite Republicans” wanted him to do, but about his swift shifts on issues like Gitmo and using the leftish “bunker mentality” slam on the Bush administration. It’s tiresome enough to get hit with this kind of rhetoric from the left. Conservatives don’t need one on our own side who is just as likely as they are to smear us.
Some may lob the exact same criticism at Romney, that he says conservative things just to court the conservative vote. There may be some truth to that, but has Romney gone out of his way to smear conservatives as “Shiites?” He didn’t run in 1994 on a platform of Reagan-Bush conservatism, granted, but I haven’t seen any evidence that Romney or any of the other candidates save McCain has gone out of his way to smear conservatives. And instinctively, Romney seems to tack more toward conservative ideas than away from them when he has the latitude. The opposite is the case with respect to Huckabee. The pattern I’m getting from him is that on social issues he’ll tack right, but on everything else he’ll tack left.
Add it all up. Huckabee campaigned with Democrats and hurt the Arkansas GOP, which hurt conservatism in that state. He smeared Arkansas Republicans as “Shiite Republicans.” He raised taxes rather than cut spending when confronted with that choice. He pushed a bill to grant in-state tuition to illegal aliens. He would close Gitmo and move the terrorists there to US soil, which is the same position that the ACLU promotes. He’s an Obama supporter’s choice to make trouble for other GOP candidates in the Michigan primary.
The guy may be nice and he may be a good, humorous speaker, but as far as I can tell he’s no conservative.
Update: David Sanders emails with more Democrats that Huckabee assisted.
In 2002, Rep. Bobby Glover, D, over Rep. Randy Minton, R, in a state senate race.
In 2000, He campaigned for Barbara Horn, D, in a Dem. primary against Dennis Young, D, and Spencer Plumlee, R, dropped out because Huck didn’t support him.
Huckabee says he wants to change the Republican party. Running with Democrats isn’t the way to do that.
Update: Dan Riehl looks at the possible roots of “Shiite Republican” slurs.










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Dave, you might be right. Maybe the Christian Right doesn’t belong in the Republican Party anymore based on opinions such as yours. It’s going to be a lonely place without us though.
As for me, and many of the Christians that I know, we will vote. You will see that we are the largest voting block in the country by a huge margin (as we have demonstrated for many decades.) You don’t have to like it, but if your message is that we need to be thrown out of your conservative movement – well that’s just fine. The fact is that we have enough votes that we could actually leave the Republicans, march over to the Democrats and force them to change their position to something that we like.
Fact is Dave, you are along for the ride with us, not visa versa. We are your 800 lb. gorilla. Without us, your group ceases as a political power of any form.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Last time I checked raising taxes, pardoning rapists and murderers, and advocating applying the Golden Rule to terrorist and despotic regimes throughout the world weren’t conservative positions. They are leftist positions. And if the Republican Party adopts these positions by nominating Huckabee, conservatives will flee. And Huck can’t win without us.
phronesis on January 10, 2008 at 2:18 PM
You’re going to force the Dems to go pro-life? Heh.
As for the 800 lb gorilla,..only till November, If he gets the nomination. Then, it’s lights out.
a capella on January 10, 2008 at 2:23 PM
A Christian who only cares about a candidate’s connection with Christianity and ignores the rest of his belief system is an idiot. A voter who choses a candidate based on his sense of humor or energetic appearance is an idiots. The American educational system has produced a lot of idiots. This leads to candidates being selected based on irrelevant criteria.
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Yeah, calling fiscal conservatives “Shiite Republicans” really brings the “fun” back to Republican politics.
Calling those who oppose amnesty and special benefits for illegal aliens un-Christian and un-American brings even more fun back to Republican politics.
Yup, the Huckster is just the thing the GOP needs to teach us all to lighten up and learn to love each other.
That’s almost as delusional as the RonPaul supporters.
funky chicken on January 10, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Well there it is. This election on the Republican side is not going to come down to who best embodies the conservative spirit, but rather about one special interest group acting holier then thou backing a candidate no matter what it might mean for the nation as a whole. You know what Wise Golden, take your little group and head on over to the Democrats. They are full of groups who could care less about the country. By acting like this is all about your group in fact you are more closely aligned to Democrats anyway.
In other words I am calling your bluff. With or without you the Republicans will have a candidate, and from the way the Hucksters is, a far better one.
Just A Grunt on January 10, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Stop talking tough. You’ll vote for the Republican even if it’s Huckabee. And if not, who cares.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:27 PM
What lines has Obama crossed, exactly? Has he moved away from the left, as Huckaschmuck moves away from the right?
Frozen Tex on January 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM
No, the anger that you sense in my voice is based on the un-truths that are being stated about a brother. On this Blog. It’s what I said earlier about nobody is allowed to have any voice in this party anymore. It’s not fun for those of us who feel differently. I’m as conservative as anyone, but I’m also compassionate.
What ever happened to compassionate — and reserved and well manored?
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:31 PM
It allowed a convicted rapist to go free in Arkansas. He then raped and killed a woman in Missouri.
a capella on January 10, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Well manored meaning they have a big house I suppose as opposed to well mannered which means they behave themselves.
The Huckster is full of contradictions and just like another former governor of AR he has learned how to make sound bites to pander to whatever group he is peaking to. Slick Willie didn’t have anybody to call him on it but Huckabee does.
Just A Grunt on January 10, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Basically anyone who doesn’t agree with you is an idiot? Is that what you mean?
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Obama hasn’t endorsed a mandatory health care. That’s a big line that he has crossed, imho.
mycowardice on January 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Peaking to? Do you mean speaking to? Okay bro — you got me — I typed the wrong word. I’m obviously wrong.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:38 PM
Your the one suggesting that the fiscons, security-cons, etc. shut up and take it as this leftist is being foisted upon us because he’s “a brother.” Identity politics clearly trumps everything for you. Another leftist trait.
phronesis on January 10, 2008 at 2:39 PM
I didn’t mention my vote. You forgot to tell me how that 800 lb religious right is going to switch to the Dems and force Obama or Hillary out of a pro-choice stance. I’m sure they’ll bend right over for ya.
a capella on January 10, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Nope — I’m responding to their initial requirement that all Huckabee supporters must now shut-up.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Hey JAG! How ya doing? You Shiite Republican, you!
Yep, time to let the Huckster take his ball and go home.
If there is a Huckster/Paul independent ticket, will it hurt republicans or dems more?
funky chicken on January 10, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Sorry Huckabee is not conservative, not even close.
MarkB on January 10, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Quoting a man’s own words isn’t lying about him, less than Wise Golden. Sorry.
funky chicken on January 10, 2008 at 2:43 PM
It’s a long election ahead of us. Politics have a way of changing over time.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Wise Golden is sounding like Michael Medved telling us to leave the RINOs alone…
Frozen Tex on January 10, 2008 at 2:46 PM
He’s not a conservative, but this is just mean…and funny.
The Huckabeasts
PattyJ on January 10, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Huck Sucks
Leonidas Hoplite on January 10, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Chuck Huck as far as I’m concerned. His record as governor is enough for me that I don’t want him as POTUS. Besides, anyone remember the last time a governor from Arkansas who fancied himself a musician was elected president? I don’t want to go through that crap again.
Brass Pair on January 10, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Idea for a new poll–who is more annoying: Elmer Gantry-bots or the Ronulans.
At least some of the Ronulans actually attempted to defend the Bircheresque crank’s actual, you know, policy positions. The Gantry-bots only defense is the whole “Christian leader” b.s.
PimFortuynsGhost on January 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM
No, he is a conservative. You’re not a conservative, you’re an Ultra-conservative. That’s my original point.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Fixed it good.
Frozen Tex on January 10, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Quoting a person out of context is a form of lying. He pardoned someone — he didn’t pardon 10,000 others who remained in jail. He raised taxes – by the order of a court in Arkansaw — and would have been acting criminally to not do so.
Leaving out truth is a form of lying.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Wise Golden, would you mind outlining exactly what positions Huckabee takes that you define as conservative? It might go a long way clearing some things up.
Leonidas Hoplite on January 10, 2008 at 2:58 PM
Why do you believe that he’s not fiscon? Why do you believe he wouldn’t send the hammer of thore down upon Iranian nuclear plants? Why? Why do you believe this?
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Riiiiight. By “ultra-conservative”, you must mean someone who have a conservative position other than pro-life. Which is the only conservative position in Suckabee’s record. The rest of his record is:
* Pro-Tax
* Pro-Spending
* Pro-Criminal
* Pro-Illegal Alien (but I repeat myself)
* Pro-Big Government Nanny-statism
* Campaigning for Democrats against Republicans
* He says we should apply the Golden Rule to terrorist states.
He’s about as conservative as Jimmy Carter. In fact, he’s exactly as conservative as Jimmy Carter. It’s why the MSM is drooling over him (always a warning indicator).
Wise up Wise Golden. Just be honest – you like the Jesus-fish and the floating cross, and you don’t care about anything else.
ErikTheRed on January 10, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Hey Wise why not go take this little test and she who your candidate would be. That is a link to my results and I support Fred who is actually third on my list.
Just A Grunt on January 10, 2008 at 3:02 PM
No, that’s not what I mean. I you think that the government should be heavily involved in people’s lives, and the rich should be taxed heavily because that’s the right thing to do, and we should be out of Iraq pronto, and you vote for Obama, you’re wrong, but you’re not an idiot in the sense that I meant it.
If you’re a dedicated Christian and you like Amnesty and you think the rich should be taxed heavily, and the government should be heavily involved in preventive health care, and you like the FairTax, and you vote for Huck, you not the idiot I meant. However if you like the fact that Huck is a vocal Christian and the rest doesn’t matter, I consider you an idiot.
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:02 PM
We don’t believe he’s a fiscal conservative because he didn’t govern Arkansas as one. We don’t believe he’d send the “hammer of thore(sic)” on the Iranian nuke plants because he wants to treat them with respect and apply the Golden Rule.
Why? Why don’t we believe this? Because we’re not blinded by the Jesus-fish and floating cross!
ErikTheRed on January 10, 2008 at 3:08 PM
You guys have hate issues. Seriously.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Not fiscon? His record as governor. Can he find Iran on a map? Think how well our last president without foreign policy skills worked out.
Frozen Tex on January 10, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Hate? No. Dislike for his policies, practices, and attitude? Yes.
Frozen Tex on January 10, 2008 at 3:11 PM
Why, because we’re call something that walks, talks, and looks like a duck, a DUCK???
Leonidas Hoplite on January 10, 2008 at 3:11 PM
Both the Amnesty and surrender to the world of Islam will lead America to oblivion. Thus a choice between Huck, McCain, Hillary, and Obama is a choice for the road to oblivion.
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:12 PM
I’m the kind that likes the Amnesty part that was proposed by our current President, and the tax-cuts that are proposed by Huckabee.
Truth is — he’s not the one talking about religion — I’ve never heard a word about from him. It’s everyone else.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:13 PM
How well our last President worked out? Wonderfully in my opinion — he’ll be getting his face on Mt. Rushmore in 50 years.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:14 PM
You may recall that the conservatives are credited with torpedoeing the (sh)Amnesty because it wasn’t conservative.
Leonidas Hoplite on January 10, 2008 at 3:16 PM
I agree with Frozen Tex. Huck might as well be a Dem on finance, security, and size of government. Maybe that helped him get elected in Billy’s home state, and I really don’t care all that much about the candidates’ stand on abortion. There isn’t much he can do about that beyond appointing judges, and we all know change does not come quickly there. The other dangers, like terrorism or open borders, affect me right here and now.
PattyJ on January 10, 2008 at 3:16 PM
No — because all of your points are riddled with some form of hate speech. Read through the post. Just say what you mean — the name calling is vulgar.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Thanks joewm315 and a capella for the info. on the Huckster. Additional factual support for the low opinion I have already formed of this guy. BTW, that murderer that Huckster pardoned, I think his name was Wayne Dumond, actually raped and murdered two Missouri women, one of whom was pregnant at the time with what would have been her first child. The state was preparing a capital case against Dumond for the second murder when Dumond died in prison. Before Huckster started pressuring the Arkansas parole board to let this criminal go free, Dumond had admitted being part of a gang who beat a guy to death with a claw hammer (Dumond even described, under oath in court, how he repeatedly hit the victim in the head with the hammer (Dumond got an immunity deal in exchange for testifying against the other killers), and Dumond also admitted to police that he had raped a woman at knifepoint. Dumond had a long history of violence in Arkansas, yet after he raped and murdered the two Missouri women, Huckster said there was just no way he could have foreseen that Dumond would do something like that! Huckster also denies that he pressured the Arkansas parole board to release Dumond, even though 4 members of the board have said that he did.
AZCoyote on January 10, 2008 at 3:16 PM
He`s a pro-life democrat.
ThePrez on January 10, 2008 at 3:16 PM
BWAHAHAHAHA!!
Frozen Tex on January 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM
I think it was conservative. So did John McCain. So did President Bush. So did 80% of Republican Senators and Congressmen. All mentioned are conservative. Who did not agree?
Ultra-conservatives. Rush, Ann, Michelle, Hot-Air, ect.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:18 PM
I think it has to do with his soul. If his soul wouldn’t let him refuse instate tuition to children of illegal immigrants, why would it let him cause civilian deaths in Iran? Sounds a bit like a double standard soul if he would do that.
a capella on January 10, 2008 at 3:18 PM
Duck is vulgar? Dude, get a thicker skin if you’re going to whine about that.
Leonidas Hoplite on January 10, 2008 at 3:18 PM
Let’s talk about the people Huckabee had executed.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:19 PM
So we don’t have to talk about the innocent victims who died because of Huckster’s poor judgment (to say the least)?
AZCoyote on January 10, 2008 at 3:21 PM
Wise, the problem with this statement is that we evangelicals are about to become a fractured bloc. – Thanks to the Huckster.
He claims to be an “authentic conservative“. He assures us his “moral compass points due north“. He confidently asserts, “we believe in some things, we stand by those things, we live or die by those things!”
Problem is, when such vacuous generalities aren’t accepted and someone attempts to pin him down on a specific issue to challenge his apparent lack of conservatism he talks very congenial about something else. Then, if the questioner happens to be very persistent Huckster’s final tactic is simply not to answer the question (i.e. his response to Mitt’s tax question on the Fox forum the other night.) In most cases he gets away with the meaningless generalities alone. In almost every other case he worms out of self-exposure through his misdirected or non-answers.
Though the less thoughtful among us evangelicals are pleasantly re-assured that he is a “christian leader” (of his own definition), there are thinking Believers who recognize what he’s selling isn’t conservative, isn’t helpful to our country, and isn’t worth buying. I hope there are many of these mindful Christians in SC.
Sadly, I fear all the Hucksmoke is just going to bust the conservative Christian bloc into smaller pieces.
The Ritz on January 10, 2008 at 3:23 PM
Say, didn’t Dumond claim to be a born again Christian in Arkansas prison before he was released? I wonder if Huck knew about that when he lobbied for his release.(wink)
a capella on January 10, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Well then you’re simply wrong on the Amnesty, because the President’s plan will lead the end of the United States as we know it. Huckabee is not credible on taxes because he was not an ardent tax-cutter in AK as everyone who cares to know no knows, his sudden interest in the FairTax seems strange, and there is no reasonable political path to the FairTax, so this is just talk. Also anyone who is now pandering to the Michigan voters with a new welfare plan can’t be a serious tax cutter.
Huck ran ads in which he called himself a “Christian Leader”, as EVERYBODY knows. He ran a commercial with a reflection of a Cross, if that’s coincidental I have a bridge to sell you. He lied about having a theology degree. He asked the “innocent” Lucifer/Jesus question about Romney. He spent more time talking about abortion in SC in 35 minutes yesterday than in his entire time in NH. Who is kidding who?
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:26 PM
I don’t see anything even remotely vulgar. Just because he didn’t include a Jesus-fish or a floating cross does that make him demonic or something? I seriously need to know. I may need to party with him.
ErikTheRed on January 10, 2008 at 3:28 PM
Not a double edge sword in my opinion. Christians are known to be willing fighters when the cause is right. Most of our soldiers are Christians after all. Our current President is devout and he’s developed something of a reputation as a fighter, hasn’t he?
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:28 PM
Not really Big S. I do not think anyone on this post is suggesting Republicans=Conservatives. And nobody is “Labeling” Huck anything, they are looking at his record and correctly “identifying” him as a “Liberal” Republican and warning their fellow “Conservatives” not to be “carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men” (which I personally believe applies to Huck.
RedLizard64 on January 10, 2008 at 3:30 PM
I’m fine. I’m just trying to say that you don’t do yourselves any favors in trying to change opinions by lashing out with name calling.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:30 PM
OK, this explains just about everything, Mr./Ms. “Wise”.
The Ritz on January 10, 2008 at 3:30 PM
There were a lot of Democrats that supported the Amnesty Bill too. Does that make them conservative?
Leonidas Hoplite on January 10, 2008 at 3:31 PM
You’ve talked about them at length. Now talk about the hundred or so criminals that he put to death by leathal injection. More than any other govenor. When you tell part of the truth and exclude important points, you purposefully mislead.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Fixed it for your Bryan!
TheBigOldDog on January 10, 2008 at 3:33 PM
Wise Golden,
Brother, the problem is that you think “conservative” should be defined by each individual like yourself. Words can have consistent meaning. If not, you wouldn’t be understanding anything I’m typing now. The word conservative has come to be understood as everything that Huckabee is against. The pro-life issue actually isn’t a conservative one. It has been tagged as ‘socially’ conservative because most conservatives are against abortion.
Please, stop redefining conservative to fit your definition.
Another thing, Christians are saints but yet sinners. You know we are imperfect. Accept the fact that Huckabee maybe wrong about some issues even though he is an evangelical.
Something to think about: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Mike Huckabee and yours truly are all Southern Baptists. Would you give Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter such a free pass as you are for Huckabee. I think not.
shick on January 10, 2008 at 3:35 PM
There was not a reflected cross and that makes everything you said suspect.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:35 PM
OK, let’s see… he allowed the execution of (on average) 1.6 people per year… almost as many as the innocent people killed by the 100+ people he pardoned or commuted per year – usually because they claimed to have found religion.
All Iran has to do to keep the mighty Huckabee “hammer of thore(sic)” (like Huckabee would ever use the hammer of a pagan god) from falling on it would be to say they had a change of heart, have a nice dinner, and talk about how swell the Jesus-fish and floating cross are.
ErikTheRed on January 10, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Did you see what happened to the Senate and House in 2006?
The Fiscal Conservatives didn’t vote Republican, and the losses were staggering.
But that’s ok, I’m sure it’ll be different this time? Somehow you’re going to get support you didn’t have in 2006 with Huckabee?
Well, if we have to do this again, we will. Eventually you’ll either figure out that you in fact will lose without the coalition, or we’ll keep seeing Democrats win the elections.
I’d be sad about that, but at least these Democrats don’t have (R) after their names. I like being able to keep them straight.
gekkobear on January 10, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Your kind of thinking is leading this country straight to tyranny. And yet you want to talk about “compassion”? Wise up, brother.
2Brave2Bscared on January 10, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Your statement illustrates vulgar as well as any. You’re making fun of something that is meaningful to me and more important than anything else that we’re talking about today. You’re belittling Christianity. That to me is vulgar. And the fact that someone feels comfortable saying it, is just scary because it represents a breakdown. The breakdown is snow-balling.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:38 PM
No man — you’ve got it backwards.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Ummmm right. For values of “hundred or so” equal to 16.
Exact Chuckabee quote: “The difference between [Romney] is that I did something he never had to do. I carried out the death penalty 16 times, more than any other governor in my state’s history.”
Not so “Wise” about the record, are we?
ErikTheRed on January 10, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Love this tactic. To most people it seemed like a reflected cross. But for you that’s enough to dismiss everything else you can’t refute. You’re an Amnesty-loving, Christian identity voter. There is no way to reach you, go and vote for the evil, pandering Huck. He will not be the President anyway, he will be easily defeated by the Saul Alinsky followers and Soros associates Hill/Obama who are even worse. Go ahead and destroy America because you can. Onward, Christian soldier!
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:41 PM
Fair enough Erik — it’s 16 and I was overstating. I think the point remains that he can call himself tough on crime by todays standards.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:42 PM
No – hardly anyone thinks that it was a floating cross. Only in here and a few other Blogs would anyone say that it was. Most people thought the acusation was nutty.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:44 PM
Sure it is. If he gets the nomination, the GOP will fracture even more than it is now, and if [heaven forbid] he actually wins the presidency, he’ll destroy the GOP. Now THAT’S real change.
JustTruth101 on January 10, 2008 at 3:44 PM
Wise Golden, when you say “The fact is that we have enough votes that we could actually leave the Republicans, march over to the Democrats and force them to change their position to something that we like”, I truly have to ask you:
What makes you think the Democrats would TAKE you? A huge proportion of them are vehemently anti-Christian.
Shirotayama on January 10, 2008 at 3:45 PM
You really do have hate issues Igor.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:45 PM
ErikTheRed,
Has Wise Golden hurt your feelings because he labeled you as ultra-conservative? He is so mean. I think he is being Vulgar.
Wise Golden,
I happen to be offended by those that wear the Jesus fish, sing the Gospel praise songs and then complain that evil and good are a huge grey area to be decided by the individual Christian.
“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ – Matthew 7:22-24
shick on January 10, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Yeah, and he is not a “Christan Leader” either. And he never asked that evil Lucifer/Jesus question. And he didn’t lie about his theology degree. He is just a buss-playing friendly Mike who looks like you and not like the people who laid you off.
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Man every day I find out something the Huckster has said or done that is completely insulting to me and just plain ridiculous. Shiite Republicans??? Supporting dem candidates over rep candidates???
I can’t believe that Huckabee is a preacher. He gives Baptists like me a bad name. I can’t STAND him!
Jodella on January 10, 2008 at 3:49 PM
A very small minority of Democrats are “Christ hating.” Very small — about the same as Republican Christ haters. Why do I believe that they would take us? Because they already have a large percentage of us. We don’t associate with political affiliation above faith. America is 80+% faithful, and at least half are Democrats. That’s why we sway elections so effectively because we can draw from one party and place votes upon the other.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Lawlessness= acting as though God never gave us a law to obey.
shick on January 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
Hate issues? I hate Hillary and Obama, that’s for sure. I hate almost anything associated with Islam. I hate the Amnesty. I like and respect Christians who are able to truly understand what lead to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
INCORRECT.
If Schmuckabee is the Republican nominee, I’m not voting.
What I can’t understand about you evangelicals is THIS:
1) You put prime importance on Judaeo-Christian values being the guiding principles informing our modern culture
2) Included in those principles are the strictures to not lie, cheat, or steal
3) Several times now, Huck has engaged in tactics that make me question whether he’s a pastor or an underhanded street-fightin’ political hack
4) Meaning he’s already contradicted those religious strictures through his actions and thus made himself, and the evangelicals who support him, TOTAL HYPOCRITES!!!
Shirotayama on January 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
What I think some people don’t understand is that we would win in a landslide if we nominate Huckabee….there are many many Christian democrats and independents who don’t pay much attention to politics and unwittingly vote democrat usually, but given the opportunity will definitely vote for Huckabee this year.
The reason why the establishment media and establishment “republicans” hate Huckabee so much is the simple fact that he is not one of them.
Check those same establishment journalists and establishment republicans donation records and you will see they supported Bill Clinton…they supported John Mccain and they opposed Ronald Reagan!! THEY are the leftists not Huckabee! They are the ones trying to force amnesty and worse down our throats! It’s time to take the power away from them!
HaraldHardrada on January 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
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spmat on January 10, 2008 at 3:51 PM
WOW! I’m a very conservative Christian evangelical, and this statement scares me to death! 2B2BS had it RIGHT.
The Ritz on January 10, 2008 at 3:53 PM
My point being this:
Politics is a dirty, underhanded, nasty game where lying is pretty much a requirement.
Religious leaders such as Pastors, Priests, and Rabbis have a duty to uphold the requirements of their faith such as NOT LYING, NOT CHEATING, and NOT ENGAGING IN UNDERHANDED POLITICAL TACTICS OF QUESTIONABLE HONESTY.
Basically, I don’t think a religious leader like Huckabee should be running for president. To me, it’s the height of Hypocrisy.
Shirotayama on January 10, 2008 at 3:53 PM
The only reason I really don’t like him is that he’ll flip on the Amnesty. He at least read Qutb. While ignorant on foreign policy, he can learn. It will not be that easy for him to raise taxes. But with Amnesty alone he will destroy this country. That’s enough by itself.
Igor R. on January 10, 2008 at 3:54 PM
This message paid for by Mike Huckabee for President.
“Don’t let the fact that I’m a religious demagogue, corrupt shyster, and general degenerate dissuade you, I assure you the Clinton machine will buckle when I inject more Jesus into my campaign. Mike Huckabee ’08!”
BKennedy on January 10, 2008 at 3:54 PM
You’ve got to be kidding, right?!
The Ritz on January 10, 2008 at 3:54 PM
Ideology aside, one thing that predominates the culture here is the ability to take some ribbing – and this is pretty darned mild. You are, of course, free to support whomever you want, but you dogmatic defense of non-existent Huckabee positions pretty much leaves us with no conversational discourse other than ridicule. If you think that mocking the allegedly coincidental symbolism contained in the ads is vulgar, you’re in for a rude shock…
ErikTheRed on January 10, 2008 at 3:55 PM
OK – time to change your username!
The Ritz on January 10, 2008 at 3:57 PM
I didn’t bring religion into this — I’m just defending at this point. Huckabee supporters are being acused of being blind to anything but faith and I’m saying you’re wrong. I’m well educated, professional and conservative on many of the same points that you are (but perhaps not all.) I’ve never made an attempt to convert a person to Chritianity in my personal life, and I have friends with whom the subject is never raised. I believe that America was founded on the basis of religious freedom which included all faiths and anyone who chooses not to believe.
I’m saying there is more to Huckabee than his Christian background. But at the end of the day, his faith is a real plus to me because I know that you can’t be well enough prepared to be President and I want for our future President to have a basis of Values that allows for proper judgment. McCain, Mitt, Clinton, Obama all have that, and yet I still like Huckabee.
Wise Golden on January 10, 2008 at 3:57 PM
The status quo remains the same with people like you. Vote for a liberal just because he has an R behind his name. Vote for a full time liberal liar rather than a part time liberal liar?
I will vote in the other races on election day and will not cast a vote for someone like huckabee.
peacenprosperity on January 10, 2008 at 3:58 PM
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