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Ya gotta go home. Period.

fred5678 on January 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM

The first few years of my adult life, I used my parents’ address on my tax forms. Then, for one year, I used my address at college. I moved back home and used my parents’ address again for a couple of years after that. That one year I used my college address, I made a mistake on my taxes. It took the federal government years to track me down. By then, the penalties and interest were outrageous.

Now, if this government cannot track down me, a citizen with a well-documented address to send me a letter, how do you think they’re going to track down and physically deport millions upon millions of illegals?

The truth is they aren’t going to be able to do it. They don’t have the manpower or the resources. Any politician who tells you they can is just pandering to the anti-immigrant bloc. I much prefer a realistic solution, not amnesty, but a guest worker program so we can track who is in our country and where they are. After, of course, we build the fence.

12 to 20 million. You. Are. Dreaming.

You. Are. Insane. if you think repeating the same thing over and over again (SEVEN amnesties since 1986) will ever change the result: ever-increasing numbers of illegal border crosings.

Not with ICE, not with self-deportation.

Oh, but most emphatically, YES. New state laws in AZ, OK, and TN are causing illegals to flee those states, often BEFORE the laws went into effect. Check Outraged Patriots dotcom for LOTS of news stories, plus this post by our lovely and oh so intelligent host.

Your federal government literally told them if they get past the border they are home free.

I agree. We have to stop doing this. NOW.

It is your federal government’s fault they are here. This is an impossible task — much like governing NYC. You have to tackle it with reason.

I agree – stop the rewards – completely. No residency, no earned legalization, no drivers licenses, no in-state tuition, nothing but emergency medical care on the way home. Anything more is a reward.

Deport the criminals — all of them
Secure the border — completely
Identify all aliens coming into the country with biometric ID — they can work
Establish mandatory reliable easy to use employer verification

That will stop the bleeding

Sounds like Rudy’s sound bites. No, it won’t stop the bleeding; not without also STOPPING THE REWARDS. See ‘dog training’, previous post. Also see ‘SEVEN amnesties’, above. Also see ‘insane’, above.

but leave us with the 12 to 20 million illegals already here (and its our Federal government’s fault) — Nevertheless, many are worthy contributors to our economy and country.

By sending cash remittances to their home country, instead of recirculating the wages back into OUR economy, at over $20 B a year??

Offer the good ones

The ones avoiding taxes by accepting only cash (the IRS frowns on me doing this), using a stolen soc. sec. number (a felony), or a made up soc. sec. number (a $250,000 fine)?? Which method do the “good ones” use??

a path forward

Legalized residency? The same residency he already stole? Granting residency to an illegal alien is the same as a judge giving the stolen jewels to the robber.

pay a fine (high enough that it is not considered amnesty),

A one dollar fine makes it not an amnesty. It’s the REWARD of residency that’s the problem, not the $3000 fine bribe.

require them to hold a job and pay taxes for at least 5 years, know American history, and speak English — make it far tougher

blah, blah, sound bite, blah. I am all for granting complete amnesty to every illegal alien – I don’t want them in jail, I don’t want them in court, I don’t want them to pay a fine bribe – I just want them to leave. And I want those not yet here to stay home and improve their own country – and that won’t happen if we entice them with the example of an EIGHTH repeat of “legalized earned residency.”

It is easy to say over and over again, “ya gotta go home.” It feels good and feels right but IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

See above for lots of examples of this working already at the state level.

The massive population wave allowed by your federal government is just too great.

It will be even greater using your proven, flawed strategy.

That Genie will not go back into its bottle. We have been dealt a bad hand. We need to cut ourselves the best deal possible — unless, of course, you want to be accused of genocide.

GENOCIDE?? AZ, OK, and TN are committing GENOCIDE?? Better get the ACLU on that. Stat.

tommylotto on January 9, 2008 at 6:07 PM

I just love how the immigration hard-liners always assure us, “Oh no, we’re not racists, we love legal immigrants, in fact the reason we have to deport the illegals is because amnesty is so unfair to the people who want to come here legally.” ….
LagunaDave on January 9, 2008 at 7:01 PM

Don’t generalize. I have lots of like-thinking friends who are convinced that rewarding illegal entry into our country only encourages more of the same, while welcoming LEGAL immigrants from all countries. I have a customer from El Salvador who entered legally on a visa and spent lots of time (9 years) and lots of paperwork and fees getting his green card. He had to go through TSA hoops to take flight training – passport, photos, fingerprints, etc. He is also pissed that others who cheat get rewarded.

Why do so many think that rewarding bad behavior won’t encourage more of the same? Never trained a dog, I guess. The same applies to humans. The meter maids have you trained to put your nickle in the meter for fear of a ticket, don’t they? And if you were a patient foreigner waiting in line, wouldn’t you be pissed if your fellow countrymen who cheated obtained precious residency and possible citizenship by paying a $3000 fine bribe after the fact?

And who said that our policy of unfettered immigration is positive? Just because someone correctly identifies the primary problem, i.e. the porousness of our borders and the influx of illegal aliens, does’t mean that he or she can’t also critique our broken system of legal immigration, which is more generous than any other nation on the planet.

We aren’t as myopic as you open border clowns, trust me.

Preferably with loud colours and lots of decorations

I just love how the immigration hard-liners always assure us, “Oh no, we’re not racists, we love legal immigrants, in fact the reason we have to deport the illegals is because amnesty is so unfair to the people who want to come here legally.” I’ve always been a bit skeptical, but I don’t like to question peoples’ motives without good cause.

Then a candidate runs an ad asking for the votes of American citizens, who are not just legal immigrants but have every right the rest of us enjoy, including the freedom to speak Spanish, or Navajo, or Hebrew, or Hawaiian, or Swahili, or any other language they damn well please, and all these (alleged) lovers of legal immigration, these stalwart defenders of the constitution and the American way, who have never (they insist!) had a racist or bigoted thought toward a Latino in their lives… proceed to go utterly apeshit.

Ya gotta go home. Period.

fred5678 on January 9, 2008 at 5:08 PM

12 to 20 million. You. Are. Dreaming.

Not with ICE, not with self-deportation. Your federal government literally told them if they get past the border they are home free. Your federal government looked the other way when they took over jobs and became an essential part of our economy. Your federal government requires hospitals to give them emergency medical care — far better than they receive at home. It is your federal government’s fault they are here. This is an impossible task — much like governing NYC. You have to tackle it with reason.

Deport the criminals — all of them
Secure the border — completely
Identify all aliens coming into the country with biometric ID — they can work
Establish mandatory reliable easy to use employer verification

That will stop the bleeding but leave us with the 12 to 20 million illegals already here (and its our Federal government’s fault) — Nevertheless, many are worthy contributors to our economy and country.

Offer the good ones a path forward — pay a fine (high enough that it is not considered amnesty), require them to hold a job and pay taxes for at least 5 years, know American history, and speak English — make it far tougher that McCain’s plan with its absurd Z-Visa — but give the ones really committed to staying here, assimilating and becoming productive tax paying citizens a chance to legitimize themselves.

Those that cannot or will not seize this opportunity? Deport them or force their self-deportation by preventing them from working. After you have biometric ID, mandatory employer verification, and an offer to legitimize the 12 to 20 million among us, then you can crack down on employers.

It is easy to say over and over again, “ya gotta go home.” It feels good and feels right but IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. The massive population wave allowed by your federal government is just too great. That Genie will not go back into its bottle. We have been dealt a bad hand. We need to cut ourselves the best deal possible — unless, of course, you want to be accused of genocide.

That should have read “Thompson and Romney,” of course.

They’re all starting to morph into one unappealing borg I suppose.

None of them have adequate positions on immigration and securing the borders, with the exception of Duncan Hunter, and I don’t see him compiling more of those delegates any time soon. Unless Wyoming is planning on holding another primary.

All of the major Republican candidates, with the exceptions of Thompson and Giuliani, are in favor of that.

Gerard on January 9, 2008 at 4:25 PM

I politely beg to differ. Do you remember Fred and Rudy arguing over and over about this?

Rudy – “Pay a fine, have to learn English, etc, etc.”

Fred – “Do they get to stay?”

Lather, rinse, repeat above exchange.

Rudy, McCain, Kennedy, Bush, Huckabee (a few weeks ago), all allow illegal aliens to keep the ill-gotten goods.

Thompson, Romney (now, at least) and Hunter do not propose to give the stolen goods to the thieves. Check the NumbersUSA candidate list.

Illegal immigration will NEVER cease, no matter how high you build a wall, unless we stop REWARDING illegal aliens with what they stole – presence in our country – and thereby encouraging more illegal behavior. It is as simple as that.

Ya gotta go home. Period.

Seriously though, how is a biometric I.D. going to help stem the tide of illegals coming here over the border or via air mail, i.e. expired student, tourist, guest visas?

Gerard on January 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM

The VISA needs to be re-addressed while the border is being, secured. Along with a verification system.

All these issues can be worked out, what we need not do is have people get overly emotional on these topics, then NONE of it will get solved.

All of the major Republican candidates, with the exceptions of Thompson and Giuliani, are in favor of that.

Amnesty is forgiveness for past misdeeds.
If you charge a fine or demand jail time, it is not amnesty.

However, the “no amnesty” proponents – McCain, Guliani, Huckabee – want to REWARD illegal aliens with what they stole – residency in this country. (Huck is tapdancing too fast to follow his apparent hardening on this issue.)

Imagine a burglar who has stolen $5000 of your favorite power tools and your wife’s jewelry. At trial the judge gives him amnesty – no jail time and no fine. BUT THE JUDGE WILL CERTAINLY NOT LET THE BURGLAR KEEP THE TOOLS AND JEWELS!

McCain, Guliani, Huckabee, Bush, Kennedy, et al, all want to give your jewelry and your husband’s power tools to the illegal aliens. Very simple. And outrageous.

Can you honesty say that these two scenarios are different?

1. An (about to be) illegal alien bribes a BP agent to get into our country – cost: $3000

2. An illegal alien is allowed to stay in country by paying a $3000 fine.

As Thompson (and Romney and Hunter) says, “Ya gotta go home!”

Woo-hoo!

Do we get a nice bar code lasered into our skin as well?

Can’t wait for that!

Seriously though, how is a biometric I.D. going to help stem the tide of illegals coming here over the border or via air mail, i.e. expired student, tourist, guest visas?

His plan is just another confirmation of his control freak, authoritarian tendencies.

I would gladly vote for Giuliani if he made a run against our schmuck of a governor, or gave it the old college try again, re: the U.S. Senate.

But as POTUS Giuliani is a non-starter.

Forget Bernard Kerik.

How about Russell Harding?

Or Christopher Lynn?

He made so many horrible, cronyistic appointments in office that it makes Bush’s staffing of the federal bureaucracy look competent by comparison.

Don’t buy Siegel’s spiel that just because some of the agencies staffed by his cronies performed efficiently and effectively it’s a reflection of his managerial aptitude.

It isn’t.

He was a great mayor, let’s leave it at that.

People keep talking about all of the “snowbirds” that live in the Sunshine State, but aren’t most of those people red diaper babies, or their spawn, like Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, who live in places like Palm Beach and Broward counties?

I don’t see folks in the Redneck Riviera casting their ballots for a candidate whose positions on gun control are to the left of Sarah Brady; I just don’t.

Will Rudy’s campaign be making ads in Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian, Farsi, French/Cajun dialects or any of the native American or Hawaiian tribal languages? Would he have gotten my grandfather’s vote if he does one in German?

If any presidential candidate does an ad in Arabic, they deserve to lose the election for that reason alone.

If you believe in a strong immigration policy, where people must speak/write/understand English, this ad should not be made. This is horrendously bad.