Video: Joy Behar explains Catholic sainthood to you
posted at 7:32 pm on January 9, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Hitchens, Dawkins, Hirsi Ali, Sam Harris … and Joy Behar?
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Allah, you posted Joy Behar footage.
What did we ever do to you?
MadisonConservative on January 9, 2008 at 7:34 PM
Is she right?
Christoph on January 9, 2008 at 7:35 PM
These girls remind me of my aunts who use to sit around the kitchen table and gossip for hours.
bnelson44 on January 9, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Some folks are saints not for hearing voices but for dying for their faith, like our own patron saint here in Joannina.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 7:36 PM
The View is my medication, baby!
SouthernGent on January 9, 2008 at 7:38 PM
No. We are still canonizing saints, see:
http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2005/10/newly-canonized-saints.html
A saint is just someone the Church is sure is in heaven (and no, the Church doesn’t say anyone, other than Satan and the demons are in hell, if anyone was wondering)
Also Catholics don’t pray to statues. We ask saints to pray for us to God. All grace comes from God
bnelson44 on January 9, 2008 at 7:39 PM
This woman is absolutely silly and I can’t take her seriously at all.
And yet, somehow that cleavage of hers fascinates me.
I hate to admit it…
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 7:40 PM
Mute + skip to Hasselbeck = win.
BKennedy on January 9, 2008 at 7:41 PM
‘now that we have all of this medication around, you can’t have saints anymore’
As she is obviously an expert on hearing voices and psychotropic drugs, I think Joy Behar must be correct. I defer to her in these matters, unconditionally.
AUINSC on January 9, 2008 at 7:44 PM
She seems to know a great deal about psychotrophic
medication. Some people will say anything for attention.
greekinfidel on January 9, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Joy brings me…. happiness
Richard Bushnell on January 9, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Dude.
peski on January 9, 2008 at 7:48 PM
Isn’t posting clips from The View on Hot Air rather like showing videos of car crashes in the lobby of a hospital?
thejackal on January 9, 2008 at 7:50 PM
I just watched the clip and now I’m hearing voices and frothing around the mouth a little. Do I get to be a saint now?
Oldnuke on January 9, 2008 at 7:51 PM
Saints don’t hear voices? But wouldn’t that be prophets that hear “voices” anyway? Her ignorance is astounding. I thank God that I work during the day hours so I have no chance of accidentally flipping past ABC in the morning.
Major Nuisance on January 9, 2008 at 7:51 PM
That’s what I thought. Thanks for the info.
Christoph on January 9, 2008 at 7:52 PM
The reason that I can’t stand The View isn’t the terrible opinions being expressed, but the inability of those who know better to suppress them.
That sounds bad…
But seriously, if anyone there was Catholic and read their Catechism they could have said:
Instead they equate martyrs with saints.
St. Dominic Savio didn’t hear voices, St. Thomas Aquinas didn’t hear voices. Neither of them faced martyrdom.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Ugh….she’s…ugh….I’m surprised that NOW hasn’t tried to cancel this show it doesn’t help their cause.
did anyone see this HILARIOUS post on craigslist?
http://greenville.craigslist.org/stp/530731516.html
If someone contacts this guy I’ll give them a cookie
spacekicker on January 9, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Ugh, so many things wrong with this…just had to point out that we don’t use thorazine anymore. Also, during my psychiatry rotation (I’m a med student) the patients who heard the voice of God never reported that God told them to go out and help the needy, generally they report God telling them to harm themselves and others.
Now maybe it’s because I don’t go to church that often, but when I think of saints I think of people who made great sacrifices and tried to help their fellow man, not people begging to be institutionalised.
drmanyee on January 9, 2008 at 7:55 PM
As usual, the Behar babble is irrelevent. The important issue is, has anyone found a medication that will make Joy Behar shut-up?
My collie says:
Okay, so I’ll admit that sometimes the dog is smarter than I give’im credit for.
CyberCipher on January 9, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Dude, I read in a tabloid that she also likes the feeling of a man grabbing the hair on the back of her head.
Sic ‘em! Go get her, boy!
thejackal on January 9, 2008 at 8:02 PM
It’s time, Allah, leave your foolish faith. Joy was the final nail in your faithless coffin. Come to Christ. :)
Skidd on January 9, 2008 at 8:02 PM
@Keljeck
I agree. Nothing pisses me off more than idiot pundits spewing off about the Church that know NOTHING about it. Joy needs to go home and read her Catechism (for the first time).
“There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing.” ~Bishop Fulton Sheen
irish_infidel on January 9, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Why is it OK to demean and insult Caltholics (and Mormons) but these fat-ass air-heads (except the babe)wouldnt dare demean and insult Islamists.
Roger Waters on January 9, 2008 at 8:04 PM
I dare her to say that about Mohammed and his voices/hallucinations. Hallelulahnations.
As a person who was raised Catholic, I’m a little offended on behalf of my devout dad, on the other hand, I’m reading a book about the 14th century and read about Catherine of Siena this morning. I suspect she could have used some modern pharmaceuticals.
Bad Penny on January 9, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Because Catholics do nothing but register an objection, while Mormons will leave Rice Krispy treats on your doorstep.
Islamists on the other hand, will slit your throat.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Because Cat-licks and Mormons won’t saw your head off in the name of their God.
Dr. Gecko on January 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM
It’s more like Goldilocks and the three bores
TheSitRep on January 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Because all varieties of Christians are brought up to turn the other cheek, show some stoicism and take the high road. That makes them targets of cowardly, spineless moo-cows like Behar. Or, if you prefer, it’s because when you go after a Muslim, they come after you. Maybe there’s a lesson here.
thejackal on January 9, 2008 at 8:09 PM
What a miserable, awful, ridiculous person. She makes Whoopi Goldberg look like Peggy Noonan.
Sure, Saint Thomas Aquinas was a babbling headcase. Saint Maximilian Kolbe was just a gibbering fruitcake. Saint Gabriel Possenti was a schizophrenic loon.
I hope Bill Donohue makes her name a verb on the internet.
see-dubya on January 9, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Technically, the actual charges against Joan of Arc was for wearing pants.
pedestrian on January 9, 2008 at 8:09 PM
I love listening to Fulton Sheen, such a great preacher.
Sadly these days many Catholics don’t even know what the Catholic Church is. Talked to a Catholic friend, grew up in a Catholic household, went to Catholic School, not only did he not know what the Immaculate Conception was, we deduced he was actually protestant without knowing it.
In fact, most Catholics probably don’t know what the Immaculate Conception is. It’s sad really. Of course I’m just guessing.
Because the Inquisition has been over for 500 years and the Mormons haven’t believed in Blood Atonement for over 100.
In short, they don’t kill you if you disagree.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 8:12 PM
ONE Thorazine is no longer commonly in use.
TWO Even the better antipsyhchotics now available do not completely control auditory hallucinations.
THREE Does Ms. Behar still think that faith and doubt cannot coexist in the same person?
FOUR I fell for it again: I took her serious.
snaggletoothie on January 9, 2008 at 8:12 PM
It seems I sat on whether or not to tell my poor joke so long that two people already responded, oh well.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 8:13 PM
It’s amazing how often Whoopi comes across as the rational one. I’ve never seen the show, just these clips, but that’s the impression that I get.
Bad Penny on January 9, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Shakespeare wasn’t quite a fan of Joan “la Pucelle” either.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 8:15 PM
Seems I should have waited longer, 30 years for Blood Atonement. I was thinking specifically of Mountain Meadows. Though that was because they heard they were persecuting the church.
Persecuting/Disagreeing.
But oh well.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 8:15 PM
Check this out
TheSitRep on January 9, 2008 at 8:25 PM
It is unfortunate even at liberal Catholic Seminaries if a young man or a young woman in a religious order show signs of true holiness or God forbid any mystical spirituality they are sent to a secular therapist. The secular world that we live in today would have put St. Paul of Tarsus, St. Francis of Assisi, or just about any of the great saints of Christianity in an institution. Meanwhile Satan laughs.
Tobias2012 on January 9, 2008 at 8:29 PM
Joy is starting to make a serious run for top
Moonbat,and maybe surpassing Rosie,but weren’t
Saint’s at one time real people.
Oh,and I find this fascinating,Rush had a problem
and overcame it,he was demonized by the left media,
and yet Joy Behar–the Liberal cheerleader think’s
medication is a great idea!
canopfor on January 9, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Bitch
madmonkphotog on January 9, 2008 at 8:36 PM
What a b***h.
madmonkphotog on January 9, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Well said, thanks b.
As for Joy, she suffers from atrophy between the ears.
Zorro on January 9, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Their ratings must be in a dive. Joy to the rescue.
“Wrong is wrong, even if everyone else is doing it. Right is right, even if no one else is doing it.”- St. Augustine
Griz on January 9, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Jeez. Where do I go to get my 1 minute and 17 seconds back? This is the most WORTHLESS show on TV (next to Olby).
Gartrip on January 9, 2008 at 8:48 PM
For those interested in Keljeck (8:12 PM) statement on the Immaculate Conception, here is a brief explanation.
Zorro on January 9, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Thanks, I’m a third of the way through so far. Initial thoughts: He did go to school (I visited the room where he studied Latin, while doing my own MA in Shakespeare). He didn’t die bookless: he had a bunch, including (from the top of my head) Florio’s translation of Montaigne (through which he got his Plato). He had Latin as well (”small Latin”, according to Johnson, who had lots: small Latin then was large Latin, by comparison, now). There does seem to be a MS of his, to wit of Sir Thomas More. He was hardly a small man when he returned to Stratford: he bought the second-largest house and was buried in the middle of the church. And his friends Heminges & Condell believed enough that he had written the plays that they put the money down for the First Folio.
Did he collaborate with others on the plays? Certainly in some cases, as in Macbeth and the beautiful Pericles (a very moving performance of which I once saw at Temple University). But to say he wasn’t the primary figure, when it is in fact so well documented by contemporary witnesses, is either ludicrous or intentionally snarky.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 8:49 PM
That was the old tyme equivalent to charging capone with tax evasion. just a skirmish tactic..
whiskeytango on January 9, 2008 at 8:52 PM
The theological stylings of Joy Behar….
That was disgusting
HerrMorgenholz on January 9, 2008 at 9:15 PM
To elaborate on the point, the purpose of statues is to help focus your attention and direct your mind upwards. They are instruments, not idols.
And non-Catholics know even less, as this clip sadly shows. These gals on The View will opine on any subject no matter how little knowledge they have about the subject. Sigh.
darii on January 9, 2008 at 9:16 PM
And Jesus wept.
NemoParticularis on January 9, 2008 at 9:19 PM
What about Muhammad? He heard voices. Why no rants about him? Heck, Islam is based on hearing voices.
PurpleWombats on January 9, 2008 at 9:19 PM
You’re absolutely correct about virtually no one (including many lapsed Catholics) knowing what the Immaculate Conception is… pathetic.
D2Boston on January 9, 2008 at 9:19 PM
Hitchens and to a far greater extent Dawkins exhibit authoritarian tendencies that would put any decent person to shame. Behar is a non-entity. Don’t know enough about Ali or Harris to comment on them. But seriously Allah why do you find cultural iconoclasm necessary? You believe in nothing and its your nothing. Why cling to douchebags like Dawkins?
aengus on January 9, 2008 at 9:24 PM
And even more to the point, how many of them know what Transubstantiation is?
Not the word mind you, but the concept.
If more people understood Catholicism, I’m sure you’d hear less complaints. Practically everything the Pope says is a “duh” to people who know what the Church teaches.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 9:24 PM
I’m not seeing my post, not sure if the series of tubes got clogged up or what, but here’s what I said again. If it’s double posting I apologize:
And even more to the point, how many of them know what Transubstantiation is?
Not the word mind you, but the concept.
If more people understood Catholicism, I’m sure you’d hear less complaints. Practically everything the Pope says is a “duh” to people who know what the Church teaches.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 9:29 PM
D’OH right after I post it >.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 9:29 PM
The theater was not viewed with utter contempt by everyone. Puritans, mayors? Yes. Sir Philip Sidney or Her Majesty Elizabeth R (to say nothing of HRH James VI/I)? No. It was controversial, meaning there were people on both sides.
He mispronounces the verb frequent, which, unlike the adjective, is accented on the second syllable. He mispronounces Avon as well, whose second syllable is a schwa.
Just because there’s a collection of works once but no longer attributed to Shakespeare (the Shakespeare Apocrypha, some of which are entering the canon even now) doens’t mean that everything named Shakespeare is anonymous, but only that he was such a popular playwright that people knew they could sell their plays by putting his name on them.
The fact that people visit Shakespeare doesn’t make Shakespeare a fraud any more than visits to Weimar make Goethe a fraud.
“Virtually all skills and expertise found in Shakespeare were mastered by Bacon.” So then why could they not be found…in Shakespeare? (And the dedication to the theater for its own sake…Francis Bacon?) To deny such a priori to the country boy from Warwickshire seems to be simple arrogance.
“The planet could not produce [two geniuses like Bacon] at one time.” On the contrary, it is more likely you’ll have multiple geniuses at a time when genius is fostered and rewarded.
Stratford not mentioned by name, Forest of Arden though is.
The thing about the “second-best bed” is old. First-best bed was put out for guest. Second-best is for husband and wife.
Well put together and especially well delivered, but with so many holes in it that it’s altogether unconvincing. (This recording reminds one of Socrates’ objection to books: that the “speakers” keep going on and on but don’t allow the reader/listener a chance to interrupt and say “hang on a minute, hang on…”)
By the way, let me plug here an excellent, very readable book by a friend of mine and senior lecturer of the Shakespeare Institute in Stratford: Shakespeare and the Drama of His Time.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 9:37 PM
I had a discussion with an old friend of mine over the Christmas holiday about this very concept. He’s a lapsed Catholic and he asked me if I believed in Transubstantiation to which I replied, “Yes I do.” He thinks I’m nuts. LOL
D2Boston on January 9, 2008 at 9:39 PM
seems to me
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 9:40 PM
And it’s so central to the Catholic faith. Beyond what the Church is doing now I don’t know WHAT they can do to educate their followers.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Without Rosie around for her to toadie to, what exactly is Behar’s role on the show these days?
SuperCool on January 9, 2008 at 9:52 PM
What else? To make the others look intelligent by comparison. It’s a tall order in Walter’s case particularly, but Behar is up to the task.
Grayson on January 9, 2008 at 9:54 PM
that entertaining little speech was written by Mark Twain. I guess he wishes and building on what he and others at the time knew.
TheSitRep on January 9, 2008 at 10:00 PM
wishes and = was
TheSitRep on January 9, 2008 at 10:01 PM
There is so much sad about this clip and the thread it has inspired.
I am not easily offended, especially by the obviously ignorant, but hats off to your biatch ass Joy.
Dirthead on January 9, 2008 at 10:01 PM
the worst is the Catholics who have turn evangelical and give you the talk about how the Catholic church is a front for SATAN….”you worship statues for heaven’s sake” and you’re like, “dude, are you sure you went to church? Did you pay attention?”
Stupid Catholics are such easy marks for those denominations with the easy sound bite theology.
tlynch001 on January 9, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Someone on another site, responding to this story, quoted the following:
Abba [St.] Antony [the Great] said: A time is coming when people will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, ‘You are mad, you are not like us.’
mtcicero74 on January 9, 2008 at 10:10 PM
“Yeah, it was decided during the Iconoclast controversy.”
“The Iconowhatnow?”
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 10:15 PM
My parish, which has the Traditional Latin Mass, had a middle-age man, Bible in hand, went up to the 4th Station of the Cross (Jesus Meets His Afflicted Mother) and started screaming. He apparently was shouting “whore,” among other things. He also apparently claimed he was Elijah.
I would attribute his behavior more to mental illness, possibly demonic influence, and not to some of these Evangelical churches. But my first thought definitely went to those kind of “Bible believers.”
mtcicero74 on January 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM
I think Allah is a closet view fan. He cannot admit that he likes watching “the view” since what dude watches that show anyway. However, posting it here kinda gives him an excuse to watch it while promoting the show itself.
cire_kram on January 9, 2008 at 10:24 PM
I do have the hope that the secular left will realize that muslims aren’t some oppressed minority. I hope that they will come to understand the muslims are the imperialists, the slavers, the abusers of women, the homophobes, and the torturers. And when they do, I hope they have enough spirit to fight back and insult Islam. The left will still be annoying, but I don’t think we should write them off as willing to left their necks for muslim knives. Maybe I’m an optimist.
thuja on January 9, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Could you fill me in on what you mean? Please, I don’t ask this at all sarcastically, because what I know as the iconoclasm controversy is an Eastern Orthodox affair. (And the Orthodox accept two-dimensional icons but reject statues.) Many thanks.
P.S. My fiancee wrote her MPhil thesis on Peter of Atroa, a pretty-much keep-to-himself ascetic who was coopted post mortem as a symbol of iconoduly (and this element was emphasized in the second redaction of his vita).
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Yes, the Eastern Orthodox are the ones who keep Icons, and they were the ones who were arguing for their inclusion. As far as my knowledge on Catholicism and Christian history goes, the Great Schism didn’t occur until 1054 AD, about two hundred years after the controversy was over.
The issue was decided in an Ecumenical Council that is accepted by both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. And, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the concept of using statues or paintings as instruments in prayer was one of the arguments used to approve the use of Icons.
Since the objects are not being worshiped, and Jesus and Mary were (or are) both human, not only can physical representations of them be made, but they can be used in veneration.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 10:51 PM
I agree. The state of Catholic education is horrible. Most of the lay people teaching religion in Catholic schools today don’t even know the subject themselves, so it is no surprise that their students don’t learn much from them.
Ironicly it will be former Protestants like Scott Hahn and Marcus Grodi that will save Catholic education in America.
irish_infidel on January 9, 2008 at 11:08 PM
Being able to see connections like that automatically makes you unqualified to host the show.
NeoRealist on January 9, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Very true. I’m Methodist myself, but I went to Catholic High School. Most of my knowledge of Christian Theology, and more specifically Catholicism didn’t necessarily come from my teachers but from my own private study. They went over the basic things, but weren’t very knowledgeable of the material itself.
Now, don’t get me wrong, they were very pious people. They did comprehend the Immaculate Conception and Transubstantiation. They just didn’t have the knowledge required to make SENSE out of it. And most students brushed it off.
To give an example with Transubstantiation, they’d say “The host is truly the body and blood of Christ.” “No, it’s physically Christ.” And that just sounds stupid on its face. They didn’t know to talk about substance and accidents. They didn’t even know that the technical term is that it’s substantially Christ.
Now that’s enough for belief, but not enough to teach 20 cynical young lapsing Catholics siting in a room.
I remember when we were going through the Reformation in Church History, and the subject turned to Indulgences. Our teacher decided to take out the Catechism to teach us what the Church has to say on them, and was shocked to find that they were condoned. She thought they had been done away with in either Trent or Vatican II. Then she admitted she didn’t know what to think about it.
Oh, and Catholic Social Teaching was fun :)
Someone needs to remind them that the teaching on Capital Punishment is that it’s ok as long as it has been demonstrated that instituting it can save lives. It’s just that the recent Popes have decided it doesn’t, but that’s not what’s written down in the Catechism!
There, done ranting.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Yes, my fiancee has tried to explain to me how the thinking goes. It’s basically that you worship God or the saint through the wood, not the wood itself. But it gets much subtler than that, and a simple guy like me can’t follow. I own one icon myself. I don’t worship, venerate or pray to/through it, but just have it as a piece of art from the city I live in). But some do venerate it (there’s a shrine with candles outside my door) and I respect their good intentions.
But why do the Orthodox not use statues? I ought to know this, living among them, but really have no idea, other than “tradition”.
Again, thanks.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Simple guy with an old rulebook for greek on your name? :P
I’m not Eastern Orthodox, and living in Wisconsin there are few near me. As far as Icons go, if I remember correctly, they pray through the icon to God or Jesus. It’s supposed to be like a window to heaven, you aren’t looking at an exact representation, you’re looking into the beyond and it helps focus your prayers.
I don’t use Icons myself, but I know I’d love to have one. And I really should try to learn more about the Eastern Orthodox.
As far as statues go, no idea. My guess it’s a cultural thing. I know there’s a ritual involved in producing the icons, there is a tradition behind it. I’ve been told a monk decides what they are going to depict and they begin a fast, which does not end until the icon is completed using traditional materials.
Seeing as even its creation is spiritual, I suppose that may be a part of it. But I can’t give you anything definitive.
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 11:39 PM
What an ignoramous. I guess Moses, Jesus, St. Paul et al were psychotic as well. She’s completely uninformed about the Saints and it’s irresponsible for her to parade her ignorant assumptions in a public forum.
A Saint in the terms she is referring to is someone who lived an exe1lent life of holiness, those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of “heroic virtue”. How does that make anyone psychotic? St. Francis, who lived a humble life in poverty and loved animals was psychotic? Mother Teresa who changed India because of her benevolence was pychotic?
I’d rather be in heaven with the blessed psychotics than in hell with Joy, which is where she’s going to end up if she doesn’t get herself some help. An education wouldn’t hurt, either.
Joy is hearing voices, too, and they ain’t coming from God.
John Kerry said he is Catholic, too, but words don’t make you Catholic, actions do. Behar is no Catholic. There are plenty of wonderful Catholics who know scripture and exactly what their faith teaches. There are nominal Catholics who give the rest of us a bad name.
Amy Proctor on January 9, 2008 at 11:44 PM
You sure you’re Methodist? ;)
But seriously, nice to see a post on Hotair that isn’t full of a bunch of people attacking the Catholic Church.
WillBarrett on January 10, 2008 at 12:00 AM
Not a rulebook exactly. John Tzetzes was the greatest scholar of the twelfth century. The work I wrote my thesis on (my fiancee and I met where true love usually happens–over copies of Nicetas Choniates) was his Iliad Allegories. He wrote these for Bertha von Sulzbach, a German princess who had come to Constantinople as a diplomatic bride. (Her fiance Manuel, the third of four sons, ended up becoming emperor.) She was very pious and wanted also to become a patroness of the arts, but knew Greek only as a foreign language and hadn’t grown up with the ancient authors. So Tzetzes was engaged basically to give her a crash course in Hellenic learning: everything a body oughtta know about the Trojan War, in an easy form of Greek.
So, I compared what he tells her with what he says to more advanced audiences in higher-register language and how he interprets Homer (with his three kinds of allegory: historical, anagogical and physical, and his critiques of other writers). Mythology, oratory, philosophy and lies. Excellent fun! And honestly much more straightforward than all that theology stuff.
By the way, if you want an excellent political history of Byzantium for the general reader, you can do no better than John Julius Norwich. Get the three-volume one, not the condensed. (Even the big one is only an average of a page per year!) Of course, I never let anybody see me reading this at Oxford, but the fact is that, popularizing is not a bad thing and Norwich writes wonderfully, based heavily on primary texts and with the language of a current-day Gibbon, though rather more sympathy for his subjects.
Tzetzes on January 10, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Dude, you have got to stop watching the View. Arent there some Simon & Simon reruns you could catch? Airwolf?
Its good to see Joy Behar reaffirming her complete lack of redeeming qualities though. E.H. is still a hottie…
liquidflorian on January 10, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Well, I don’t believe in the Assumption of Mary, the Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation, that Mary is Co-Redemptrix, the Primacy of the Pope, Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, mortal and venial sins, Purgatory, Indulgences…
I just know a lot about them. But remember, John Wesley was the first guy to translate Thomas Kempis’ The Imitation of Christ into english. And I have far more respect for the Catholic Church and their rich history and tradition than other commenters here.
I took Ancient Greek last year thinking that it would be a good idea to get it out of the way before Seminary, while having my languages done with fast (I’m a Sophomore now). Problem is that I’m bad with other languages, and I didn’t attack Greek the way I should have. Since it was so foreign to me (”What do you mean it declines!?) I ended up passing with a B+, when it should have been a D or C given that my final was a 50%
He told me it was a “promise.” I quit the class. Hopefully I can do better in Seminary, and I still have the books so maybe I can go through it again in my free time. But that’s me, one semester of Attic Greek. At least it’s enough to make out John 1:1. Take that Arians!
But I’m going to bookmark that book. When I get some money and time I’ll pick it up. I’ve got my reading list full right now, and Romance of the Three Kingdoms is going to take FOREVER to complete.
And if I ever become proficient enough in Ancient Greek I’ll try to remember that book.
Keljeck on January 10, 2008 at 12:21 AM
This woman is dangerous, not only because of her intolerance, but of the incredibly incorrect information that she spews. She says it and a fair amount of people will believe her because she is on television.
I was taught that you pray through the saints. I liken it to asking a friend to go to bat for you with someone you don’t know well, but need a favor from. Also, you can’t become a saint based on actions while you are alive. You become a saint after death. Typically it is a person who lived a holy life like Mother Teresa. After death, at least 3 miracles need to be attributed to them. Saint Katherine Drexel comes to mind for a U.S. Saint.
Wrlss911Pro on January 10, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Hmm, again with Arians I’m not sure what they’re all about. Some kind of Christological argument that’s beyond a simple Tzetzes-wannabe like me.
What I do know is that they produced Ulfilas, with his totally bitchin’ Bible translation!
Tzetzes on January 10, 2008 at 12:31 AM
No need: Viscount Norwich writes in (very good) English.
Tzetzes on January 10, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Sorry, I wrote that too fast and didn’t proofread. In that sentence I was referring to John Tzetzes’ work.
Keljeck on January 10, 2008 at 12:44 AM
Tzetzes’ work on Homer? Hmm…
When I was doing my viva (my oral defense), someone asked me why I didn’t do any translations into English, to make my work useful to, say, undergraduates. The main reason was that an already-huge thesis would have become all the huger. But another reason is that undergraduates should be spending their time reading Homer, not commentaries on Homer.
If you want to get good at Ancient Greek, read Homer and Plato and learn to speak Modern Greek. But, boy, what an undertaking. Better to do Icelandic and Anglo-Saxon, which are much easier but still give great literary yields.
Tzetzes on January 10, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Well, I need to learn Koine Greek eventually. But Homer isn’t in Koine Greek.
I have a friend here who absorbs languages. He’s going for a minor in every language at this college. I wish I had that ability.
Keljeck on January 10, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Hmm, I posted something else, but it seems to have gotten lost in the works. Just wanted to say that I don’t know much about Arianism (something about Christology), except that their main man Ulfilas had some mad translatin’ skillz.
Tzetzes on January 10, 2008 at 12:55 AM
He’s the dude who invented an alphabet for the Goths to translate the greek into right? I can’t make heads or tails out of that. I just know that the english looks right :P
The major point of contention with Arianism is that they said Jesus wasn’t God incarnate, he was a creature of God. It was declared a heresy.
Keljeck on January 10, 2008 at 1:03 AM
It has been my experience never to have met a theologian, other than an Orthodox one, with good Greek. This is because they only (or nearly only) study New Testament Greek. (And this in turn because their passion is not for the language itself, but they study the language as a vehicle to something else.)
The problem is that one would get a warped view of the language by studying only the Late Antique version. Words will come up which are hapax legomena as far as the Scriptures are concerned, but common in other texts. Same goes for constructions. You can look the words up, of course, but you only get a feel for them after reading, well, page after page after page of Plato. And Modern Greek as well, which in many ways in closer to Alexandrian Greek than is Classical Attic.
Further, theologians come to the texts with lots of preconceived ideas (maybe good, maybe bad, but certainly a priori), which they seek to validate by an appeal to the text. Thus, there’s a lot of wresting of natural meaning in the service of dogma. And this is made possible because theologians never take the long, long, long time it takes to become really comfortable in Greek (much more than in Latin or German), so it’s always something unnatural, analytical, debatable.
So, the thing to do is not to learn Koine Greek, but simply Greek, in all its forms but with emphasis on Homer and Classical Attic (Xenophon, Plato, Thucydides). Enjoy the language for its own sake. Then, later on, the New Testament and Septuagint will come easily, as a bonus.
And I do highly recommend Modern Greek. For a start, learn the correct pronunciation of Greek, the pronunciation used both by the Orthodox church and by millions of Greek schoolkids, who learn the ancient forms of their mother tongue with ease. It’s also, as shown by mispellings in the papyri, very very close to the pronunciation of the language during Late Antiquity.
All the best. Sorry to fly, but it’s after 8:00am here and I gots to go…
Tzetzes on January 10, 2008 at 1:11 AM
That is basically what I was taught growing up in the Eastern Orthodox Church – there is no worship of icons, but rather they are used as a point of focus during prayer. Even though gestures are routinely made of kissing an object depicted on the icon (perhaps a bible being held by Jesus) or a blessing given to the icon by a priest, they are not worshiped.
greekinfidel on January 10, 2008 at 1:13 AM
that ? is extremely misplaced… please do some research b/f you opine as if it’s fact.
whiskeytango on January 10, 2008 at 1:19 AM
Thanks for the advice. It’s a matter of getting a chance to tackle it again. Maybe I’ll take my textbook out again in the summer if I get time.
I don’t like the focus on latin personally. I can understand a Catholic Theologian focusing on it because all of the documents in the Vatican are in Latin. But as a protestant, rummaging through Vatican libraries isn’t my interest. Besides, why read Virgil when I can read Homer?
And since I’m bad at languages, I do have to be selective.
Keljeck on January 10, 2008 at 1:24 AM
My only question is why are people even paying the remotest of attention to what the yoohoos like Behar on The (Spew) View have to say? With the exception of Elizabeth Hasselbeck, there is not one person on that show, Barbara Walters included, who has demonstrated that they have the combined brainpower of a can of spinach. In Behar’s case, the can is empty.
pilamaye on January 10, 2008 at 7:56 AM
Not very many 11-year old boys here, I presume.
/puts on Kevlar vest.
thejackal on January 10, 2008 at 8:12 AM
Behar the Boar boregot to beget her bottle of bile before begging we believe she is not a bigot.
MSGTAS on January 10, 2008 at 8:17 AM
Ah yes, all those canonized martyrs, hearing voices was the reason they became saints… forget about the part where they, you know, let lions chew their limbs off rather than renounce their faith and sacrifice to the Roman gods……
max1 on January 10, 2008 at 10:53 AM
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