Video: About that incident with the Iranian ships
posted at 4:57 pm on January 9, 2008 by Bryan
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Rep. Joe Sestak (D-PA), who’s a retired Vice Admiral, says the Navy’s response to the Iranian provocation in the Straits of Hormuz over the weekend was the right response, and was the result of training and restraint. I tend to agree, but thought I’d toss this video out to the squids in the readership to get their take. To me, the boats were clearly trying to provoke a response and may have been trying to create Iran’s own Gulf of Tonkin incident. The timing, coming as it did so close to President Bush’s visit to the Middle East, is no accident. In any case, as long as the boats stayed some distance from the destroyers they were no threat, and if they had gotten close enough to become a threat, the destroyers would have sunk them without much trouble. I have no doubt of that.
But I’m a zoomie, so what do I know?
As things stand, the Iranians have annoyed the French as well as the US. In years past that wouldn’t matter much, but Sarkozy isn’t your average French president. Personally I’d take him over Gordon Brown in a fight any day.
Update: To no one’s surprise, HuffPoster doesn’t buy the US version of the Straits incident. But if you ask him, I’m sure he supports the military. Well, he supports a military.
Update: Mike Goldfarb also takes a look a that HuffPoster’s piffle. I think we can all agree that a record producer’s word ought to carry more weight on a military matter than the Pentagon or a retired admiral. Right?
Update: Very interesting military analysis here. He makes a very good point about being lulled toward complacency by actions like these.
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Hey, there a presidential election going on. We don’t have time for this stuff.
AverageJoe on January 9, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Wait, wait, wait, wait…
Iran has a navy?
Keljeck on January 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Will anyone question the Dems on Rules of Engagement?
AverageJoe on January 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Hey… zoomies know things….. I’m a zoomie too.
Maxx on January 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Sarkozy is pro American. Brown is typical of the new appeasement Londonistan party.
Ive been watching the incident unfold and, its very scary.
Ahmedinijad (spelled incorrectly probably because I’m in a hurry) is trying to instigate a small scale attack resulting in an escalating incident.
Very scary stuff, indeed.
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:08 PM
And…beware the Russian-Iranian alliance, and watch for other M.E. regimes to join.
Keep an eye out for Putin
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:10 PM
quite the leg shot huh?
Jared_MA on January 9, 2008 at 5:10 PM
What’s a zoomie?
Weight of Glory on January 9, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Someone was telling me earlier today they should have destroyed them and didn’t react fast enough. I said “if they had gotten a few meters closer our ships have the firepower to obliterate them in about 2 seconds from second the order was given”. Of course, if our ships would have opened fire, some morons out there would have said we were wrong to have done something like that not absolutely knowing for sure if they were a threat. Like we would have known their intentions. Some people live in a cocoon in this country and that there are no bad people outside our country, just us.
After what happened with the USS Cole, I’m sure no U.S. vessel would ever let a boat like that get close enough to do any damage to itself.
Planet Boulder on January 9, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Well the heck with what zoomies think. ;)
As a ground pounder all I can say is suicide mission, a couple of shoulder fired weapons. We got us some dead sailors, can’t respond (because of PC-Gulf of Tonkin-Rosie BS) other then sink the boats. The world calls us the bully.
Then again, I was just a ground pounder.
Limerick on January 9, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Fox’s transcribers don’t have very good ears. I could make out “intentions” and “defensive measures” without much trouble.
Also, only one of the ships was a destoyer. One was a cruiser, and the one you see most prominently in the video is a frigate.
Blacklake on January 9, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Someone tell me how the USS Cole fared against a sucidial boat ?
William Amos on January 9, 2008 at 5:13 PM
funny choice of words, I just read that the NSA declasified reports saying the gulf on tonkin incident was staged
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Report_reveals_Vietnam_War_hoaxes_f_01082008.html
offroadaz on January 9, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Actually for me the funniest thing was the comments on the CCN Site of this video. Was all the conspiracy talk of how this was staged like the moon landings and was Gulf of Tolkin redux.
William Amos on January 9, 2008 at 5:16 PM
I recognize that fact that I do not have the conditional objectivity of trained military personnel, since my response would have been “Fire!” Do our more liberal counterparts recognize their lack of objective judgement as well? Doubt it.
regal on January 9, 2008 at 5:17 PM
No need to make a big incidient about it, just a simple press release:
The US Navy announced today the creation of an artificial reef near the straits of Hormuz by sinking several outdated small boats.
My response to any accusations from Iran is 2 words:
What boats?
But then again, I’ve always had a rather unique understanding of rules and stuff…
trubble on January 9, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Nothing strikes me more than two things… the timing (President Bush in Middle East) and Iran trying to start something with this President. Call me a Zoomie, too, but push comes to shove Dubya will bloody their noses rather than have ours rubbed in it (read as loosing sailors).
Secondly, the Iranian nut job is trying to keep favor with his own in-house radical element who may be thinking he’s loosing some spine after the surge depleted his foreign aide to Iraqi terrorists. Hey, Hill cries and wins a state, maybe he rams a couple speedboats into a cruiser and he’ll get to be president a while longer?
Signalfire_WI on January 9, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Everything he said is bull crap.
The U.S. Navy should have fired on them when they came with that 1000 yards. The Iranian navy needs to know exactly what 1000 yards looks like and what happens when you cross that line.
TheSitRep on January 9, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Do the Iranian boats have missle or torpedo capability?
a capella on January 9, 2008 at 5:21 PM
Oooh, boy! Where to start…?
Especially after the Cole, this is scary. And I’m not real thrilled with the Admiral there, either. Unarmed because there were no missile emissions picked up? Just what sort of emissions would Aegis detect from C4, dynamite, or other similar explosives?
No.2, I couldn’t make out much of which ships those were, but one appeared to be a Burke. Main weapons being the Standard Missile VLS system and 5-inch guns. Those speedboats were close enough that about the only options they had were 50-cal machine guns and the 25mm chain gun, neither of which would stop them cold without possible damage from HE going up. And that’s even assuming they were manned by someone who could actually hit it, assuming they were actually given the order to fire. Depending on the watchbill, that’s even a roll of the dice.
JamesLee on January 9, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Regardless, the are all Jihad enabled.
regal on January 9, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Well, there went Ron Paul’s strategy.
He always said the best way to sink the Iranian nave was to put it in the water.
They didn’t sink, so I guess he is out of options.
RobertInAustin on January 9, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Any Phalanx FCs here? Would Artoo angle that low and close?
JamesLee on January 9, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Do these ships have the Phalanx missile defenses?
Even if they did, that close of an encounter would probably void the warranty.
Hendo on January 9, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Zoomie = Air Force
Ground Pounder = Army
Snidely Whiplash on January 9, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Yep…never underestimate the power of the Jihad
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:31 PM
I spent Desert Storm EXACTLY where this happened. We were tasked with boarding and searching ships there..
Problem is that the straights are VERY narrow… with Silk Worm sites overlooking the straights in Iran. If we had fired on them at 2000 yrds… or a MILE??? International Incident in International Waters… and the Silk Worms would have fired in “retaliation”… and oil would be at $125 to $150 a barrel today (which, IMO, is exactly what Iran wants).
Were these boats a threat? Not unless they could get close enough to ram without being hit by either the .50s, the 30mm, or the CIWS on manual… not to mention the 5 inches… if they were packed with enough explosives to actualy damage a Destroyer, then they would have gone up with the first couple of hits… shoulder fired weapons (antitank) could put a hole in the superstructure, but onboard welding and a bit O paint would fix that.
Sailors did EXACTLY what they should have done IMO.
Romeo13 on January 9, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Blown them out of the water? Did you guys see how close those 5 boats were speeding along side your navy while broadcasting suicide attack messages?
Not too mention the Iranians are now live training suicide boat attacks on your navy with zero consequence, next time will you be inclined to open fire more, or less? Probably just another provocation so why bother.
Spin this however.. This is shocking for an Israeli. We would have blown the boats up & then hit the speedboaters homes too for good measure, just to make sure. When Iranian Jihadi Revolutionary Guards do whirly birds around your navy and people start praising your restraint let me tell you guys, imho you have problems.
saus on January 9, 2008 at 5:32 PM
Paul would counter-attack with the new US Blimp fleet.
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:32 PM
United States Air Farce. ;)
(Just pullin’ yer leg, Bryan. Ex-Army, and all…)
Frozen Tex on January 9, 2008 at 5:33 PM
I think when all the planets are aligned properly; Americans, Saudis, Israelis, Brits and now maybe even Sarkozy, Ahmadinejad’s going to wish he had kept his sky-blue wave skimmers in dry dock.
We just can’t continue to let this bully pull these pranks and walk away unscathed. The choice is doing now or doing later. Why wait until after he pulls out the nukes he isn’t producing?
fogw on January 9, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Would that be before or after someone explained to him that Iran does in fact have a navy?
Bryan on January 9, 2008 at 5:34 PM
I love Israel.
Frozen Tex on January 9, 2008 at 5:34 PM
Don’t forget, we had radar controlled guns aimed at these puny speedboats. All that would would have been required would be to squeeze the trigger, and those boats would have become wet dust.
Of course this was an attempted provocation. But since the boats didn’t make their “last straw” move, they were spared. They were lucky.
stonemeister on January 9, 2008 at 5:35 PM
It would never happen. His followers would suck all the helium out of the blimps claiming they were rescuing the country from another Vietnam.
Fred!
RobertInAustin on January 9, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Bryan, you know The Blimp fleet would be this nation’s best defense!
/sarc
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Re offrdaz’s comment on the Tonkin Gulf incident being staged, he’s 100% right. No need even to search out boring NSA docs. Adm James Stockdale laid it all out in his excellent memoir, In Love and War, in the mid-1980s. Stockdale was commander of the flight which came to the “rescue” of our destroyers and spent his time chasing ghosts and firing at empty water. The seven plus years he was a POW, his greatest fear was that the N. Vietnamese would torture the truth out of him. Thankfully they never even brought it up.
Anyway…We need to change our vocabulary a bit when talking about these Iranian provocations.
scatbug on January 9, 2008 at 5:37 PM
This may well have been an economically motivated incident. Any hostile action near the Straight of Hormuz is bound to inflate oil prices, thus increasing Iran’s profits.
It’s win-win for Iran - If we do nothing, oil goes up a little. If we sink the vessels, oil goes up a lot on the speculation of an Iranian reprisal.
Or not.
Alalazoo on January 9, 2008 at 5:38 PM
LOL….yes…FRED! Please. GO FRED GO.
That cracked me up but you know, this was a very very scary incident, indeed
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:39 PM
I seen the Navy video linked from Briebart yesterday. The comments posted made me ill. One particular conspiracist complained that the mysterious white boxes that were dropped are nowhere to be seen in this video.
NJGOPOrphan on January 9, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Blimps were devastating weapons in one of the Command & Conquer games.
Bryan on January 9, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Not to hijack the tread, but, you know how this will be played out in the media across Iran.
Waaa waaa waaa Death To America…Waaa waaa waaa Death to Israel…Much like someone said in the ‘Osama Sings the Old Favorites’ thread a few days ago.
I do NOT believe now would be a good time to fully engage Iran in a confrontation.
Again, watch out for the Putin card.
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Bryan…all of this blimp talk is making me shake with…a new…recurring surge…of ZEPPMANIA!
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:43 PM
The Germans bombed London with them in WWI.
Frozen Tex on January 9, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Not unless things have changed drastically in the last 5 years, which I doubt. The only Big Gun that may have had a decent chance would be the 76mm Automalara (sp?), and I don’t think that gun is on anything outside of Coast Guard Cutters, though I could be wrong.
They were too close and moving too fast side-to-side for the Mk45- 5inch to keep up.
JamesLee on January 9, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Of course. Just like, you know, Congress can tell how good or bad a war is going better than, say, General Petraeus.
mattyj86 on January 9, 2008 at 5:44 PM
The Democrat goes to extremes not to mention USS Cole.
Interesting that he mentions the USS Vincennes though. After 9/11, what is our policy on commercial jets originating from axis of evil countries heading towards one of our ships? I’m sure Iran would sacrifice their jets for our warships all day long. In hindsight, maybe that jet did intend to crash into the Vincennes back in 88.
Buddahpundit on January 9, 2008 at 5:45 PM
What about the CIWS?
Frozen Tex on January 9, 2008 at 5:46 PM
The US security measures are going to start getting a lot more like the Israelis in the future. We already turned to them for airline security because El Al has never been hijacked. We’ll eventually adopt their profiling techniques there as well. We adopted their barrier techniques in Iraq that stop suicide bombings. And hopefully we’ll adopt their shoot first and ask questions later strategy to save AMERICAN lives.
This would only have been a ‘Gulf of Tonkin’ incident if we were going to invade Iran. If we sink those ships and say ‘oops, sorry’ we have a stronger military. If Iran declares war on us, how would that be any different than it is now. I agree after the Cole, if they get in range and make a threat, they are at the bottom of the ocean (or gulf for that matter) and I tell the world that I was protecting my ships.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2008 at 5:46 PM
The Ron Paul blimps would get lost and wind up bombing Iceland. Somehow I think the German blimps were more effective
NickTx on January 9, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Thanks!
Weight of Glory on January 9, 2008 at 5:50 PM
That’s a very good point. The circumstances are obviously different here, but the fact that Sestak goes for the Vincennes over the Cole says quite a bit. The Cole is much more analogous to the Hormuz incident than the Vincennes.
Bryan on January 9, 2008 at 5:51 PM
President Dinner Jacket got chided recently by the ruling oligarchy, he needed something to get peoples minds of his bad press. What better than the existential struggle with The Great Satan ?
Ceterum censeo Fred! esso desumo !!!
elgeneralisimo on January 9, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Had the boats gotten any closer, they could have opened up with either their .50 BMG or Mk38. Demo vids here: http://video.aol.com/video-detail/machine-guns-on-uss-ponce/4225367102
burgers on January 9, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Oh, and SPEAKING of the Vincennes….
That line ticked me off too. As I understand from fellow Gunners who were there, that “unarmed airliner” was squaking Iranian fighter IFF, was warned off repeatedly and was finally shot down less than 1 mile out. And all those poor ‘innocent people’ that were killed were found stripped naked and full of 7.62 mm (AK47) rounds. Last time I checked, an SM2 doesn’t do that.
And while we are at it, how about the USS Stark? Iraqi fighters buzzed them everyday, and the one day we didn’t light them up with fire control, they loose an Exocet.
How many times does it take?
JamesLee on January 9, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Ahh, many happy memories of helpless trashbags….
JamesLee on January 9, 2008 at 5:59 PM
As a former squid in the Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) field my opinion is that the commanders of these ships didn’t annihilate the Iranians because they were afraid of being hauled before the self-righteous jacka$$es in Congress. Any US commander is going to think twice if they think they’re career is going to be on the line so some damn Democrat can score points with the Left wing base. Being questioned by the likes of Waxman, Boxer, Kennedy, Biden, Kerry, et al is enough to make any commander say “screw it!”
DerKrieger on January 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM
They don’t know where the verbal threat was coming from but they knew what was on the speedboats? They know there wasn’t 50 pounds of plastic explosives or a warhead built into the hull?
peacenprosperity on January 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM
A Burke destroyer, a Ticonderoga/Bunker Hill cruiser, and an O.H. Perry frigate, from the looks of it.
So far as I know all of those are still equipped with Phalanx 20mm CIWS, also. CIWS is for last-ditch air defense, and I don’t know how well or even if it can be employed against surface contacts like this, but purely in terms of firepower you’d think it’d be ideal (it’s based on the 20mm Vulcan cannon used by most US combat aircraft). I don’t know how far down the turrets can depress, or if there’s any form of optical targeting available for them.
Blacklake on January 9, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Yes, I’m not sure if it would get that low, but it would be AWE-SOME to see it rip apart those little suckers.
JamesLee on January 9, 2008 at 6:12 PM
It doesn’t fill people with 7.62mm, but when an airliner breaks up at cruising speed the wind does strip the clothes off of bodies.
The decisions made on the Vincennes are in many ways defensible, but resorting to conspiracy theories doesn’t help.
Blacklake on January 9, 2008 at 6:15 PM
The Iranians wouldn’t take on three large US warshiips with only five boats. They’re more likely to use swarm tactics, which would entail using far more vessels, plus firing SSM’s from shore. Why they did the stunt is unknown, but consider that President Ahmadinejad is under considerable domestic pressure because of Iran’s failing economy. Even the Supreme Leader Khamanei is openly criticizing him. But, in my opinion, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)runs Iran and they back Ahmainejad. So the incident may have been a way for the IRGC to warn Khamenei that if he goes to far and removes their man, they can immediately start a war with the US that would enable Ahmadinejad to create a state of emergency and crack down on domestic opposition. That’s one possible explanation.
NNtrancer on January 9, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Since the Iranians claim the footage was fabricated I guess they won’t miss the “fake” boats we destroy the next time this happens.
DerKrieger on January 9, 2008 at 6:25 PM
The Phalanx has been upgraded to make it effective against “high-speed surface threats”.
Upgrade info here: http://www.raytheon.com/products/phalanx/index.html
Airborne target demo vid here:
http://www.videotiger.com/vids/amazingmilitarydefensiveweapon.wmv
burgers on January 9, 2008 at 6:26 PM
We paid a heavy price before finally learning our own lessons. Please don’t make the same mistakes.
I don’t need to explain to anyone that in the MidEast this looks like fear, nothing else. Fear of consequences & fear of Iran. No one is impressed by restraint here, this is the region where they cut women’s heads off on Live TV and I’m not being crude.
The Iranians have been emboldened, today they announced you made the whole thing up and many are lapping it up asking for more! If one reads Sun Tzu, one knows they just won a battle in the Straights of Hormuz.. and then scored again scott free.
saus on January 9, 2008 at 6:29 PM
I couldn’t agree more.
Midas on January 9, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Former Zoomie here, and I would LOVE to see my Squid Brothers use those Iranian boats for target practice.
Tony737 on January 9, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Schweeeet….!
Frozen Tex on January 9, 2008 at 6:36 PM
This wasn’t a Strong Horse display, by any means.
baldilocks on January 9, 2008 at 6:36 PM
Hey maybe we can move the Ponce into the straits? Imagine next time the oh so manly punks try that we can say they were killed by a Ponce….
ScottG on January 9, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Not zoomie or a squid, or even a grunt, but….
The three ships involved were the U.S.S. Port Royal (Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruiser), the U.S.S. Hopper (Arleigh Burke-class Aegis destroyer), and the U.S.S. Ingraham (Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate). The Ingraham being the oldest, and smallest, of the three.
The boats were careful to stay outside of the 200-meter radius that I am reliably informed is the “you bought it” zone around U.S. naval vessels in confined but potentially hostile waters. My guess is, the “Straits of Hormuz Hydroplane Club” were either well briefed, had prior experience, or just weren’t ready to be martyrs just yet.
Most of the secondary weapons on the three ships could have hit the “speeders”, ranging from the OTO-Melara 76mm dual-purpose on the Ingraham down to the .50 caliber MGs that are mounted on the rails of U.S. warships for just such situations. In fact, at 200 meters, one of the ships’ Fleet Marines with an M249 or a 240 Bravo could have ruined the boaters’ whole day, and I am sure they were ready to do just that if the Captain called for it.
IMHO, 200 meters is, however, a bit uncomfortably close to allow a Miami Vice hotrod that might, just might, have 500 kilos or so of HE stuffed in its bilges with an impact fuse or just a long string attached to a pull-igniter and a blasting cap. But that is just MHO.
My best bud, an ex-Army E-5, suggested that the appropriate response, in the context of Islam, would have been to ask for volunteers to line the rail, dress ranks and, on command, do an about-face, drop trou, and moon the boaters in unison. He also suggested that female sailors might have rendered an even more insulting salute involving the uniform blouse.
But that was his opinion, so don’t jump all over me, please.
cheers
eon
eon on January 9, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Now there’s a YouTube video.
Frozen Tex on January 9, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Okay, here’s the definitive (for here) answer.
First, I’m a Senior Chief in the U.S. Navy who has recently visited the straight (SOH) and is VERY familiar with the Rules of Engagement (ROE) in that area of the world.
Now, with that said, and without putting out any classified information, this situation happened exactly how it was supposed to, and the Iranians knew how it would happen and what they could get away with.
Meaning: Every ship has the “Inherent right of self-defense.” We have heard the radio contact between the ships and the small boats. We asked for their intentions, they gave them - “you will explode in a few minutes”. When we then told them they were “standing into danger”, they left. When we say “standing into danger”, we are ready and have the authority to blow them out of and into the water, period.
The Iranians know exactly how we operate there, and what we’ll say - we do it nearly EVERY DAY. We’ve been there for over 30 years. When they hear the word “danger”, they know what’s coming. That’s our modus operandi, and they are very aware of that.
JeffWeimer on January 9, 2008 at 6:47 PM
You are probably right, but I would’ve shot anyway.
TheSitRep on January 9, 2008 at 6:48 PM
Can anyone here suggest what kind of weaponry would have come into play had the Navy decided to put a couple hundred virgins onto their backs? Those boats were moving rather fast. I imagine our ships would have had some computer-operated Vulcan guns (something like that) trained on them.
Any thoughts?
thejackal on January 9, 2008 at 6:50 PM
That was my first thought.
.
We blinked, and Iran knows it.
Iranians now believe they know how close they can get to our naval ships. That in itself is dangerous.
2 more things are quite troublesome:
1) The distance of 200 yards is nothing (3-4 seconds) to a cigarette speed boat, remember the Cole and that was a rowboat in comparison.
2) The distraction of this event should not sway us from remembering the stealth gimmick by the Chinese sub last fall.
If the Chinese and Iran were to join efforts????
NoKo and China both would sell anything for a buck (or a Euro).
shooter on January 9, 2008 at 6:51 PM
DerKrieger on January 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM
THE MURTHA FACTOR. Indeed.
shooter on January 9, 2008 at 7:03 PM
I can’t agree with that.
It seems to me that if you look at the pattern of Iranian foreign policy since the Islamic revolution they do whatever they can get away with, tiptoing up to it and pulling back if necessary. Its almost never failed for them. The Iranian Hostage Crisis, the bombing of Marines in Lebanon, the two bombings against Argentina. All to no response.
The one time they slipped up was in the late 80s when Reagan had half their navy destroyed. Their retaliation? The Rushdie fatwa. No response. More recently their low level war against US troops in Iraq? No response. The recent British sailors incident? No response. This latest incident? No response.
Consider Chairman Mao’s strategy of warfare:
Di jin, wo tui, [When the] enemy advances, we withdraw,
Di jiu, wo roa, [When the] enemy rests, we harass,
Di pi, wo da, [ When the] enemy tires, we attack,
Di tui, wo jui, [When the] enemy withdraws, we pursue.
They’ve employed this strategy quite expertly against a militarily superior foe. So carefully that they’re now going to develop nuclear weapons unopposed. Iranian foreign policy has been overwhelmingly successful these last few decades and shows no signs of slowing down.
aengus on January 9, 2008 at 7:07 PM
The point I was trying to make above, in contradistinction to Bryan’s post and some of the comments, is that they are not looking for a response. Their whole strategy is based on pushing as far as they can push whilst still getting a non-response and then backing away if need be. Its a form of ritual humiliation that expands and contracts like desert erosion. They can toy with Carter and Blair, over/underestimate Reagan depending on the circumstance and niggle Bush under the media radar with varying degrees of subtlety.
aengus on January 9, 2008 at 7:17 PM
Can anyone here suggest what kind of weaponry would have come into play had the Navy decided to put a couple hundred virgins onto their backs? Those boats were moving rather fast. I imagine our ships would have had some computer-operated Vulcan guns (something like that) trained on them.
Any thoughts?
Yes. in addition to small arm rifles like the M60 and M14 or M16, we have the venerable .50 caliber machine gun - very good in the right hands up close. A 25mm rapid fire gun - better at longer ranges but a bit unwieldy unless the sea is glass-smooth. 5 inch and 3 inch (diameter) major caliber gun rounds - great from a distance - they’re radar targeted. Finally - the upgraded Close-in Weapons system (CIWS), fires 4500 20mm rounds per minute and can be manually directed. 5 seconds would have turned any one of those “go-fasts” into confetti. All three ships should have had those mounts installed. That same upgraded mount is used to shoot down mortar rounds in Iraq, see here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/94BRkbFbITY&rel=1
Like I said, the Iranians know the phrase “standing into danger”. There’s a reason why they hightailed it out of there once those words were spoken. They signaled their hostile intent when they indicated we would blow up, we had every right to destroy them.
JeffWeimer on January 9, 2008 at 7:25 PM
With the reports of the Mullahs turning on Ahmadinejad, I wonder if he was provoking a response to shore up support.
ronsfi on January 9, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Please, news folks: the adjective is Iranian, not Irahnian.
Look it up in the OED if you don’t believe me.
Tzetzes on January 9, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Can anyone here suggest what kind of weaponry would have come into play had the Navy decided to put a couple hundred virgins onto their backs? Those boats were moving rather fast. I imagine our ships would have had some computer-operated Vulcan guns (something like that) trained on them.
Any thoughts?
Yes. in addition to small arm rifles like the M60 and M14 or M16, we have the venerable .50 caliber machine gun - very good in the right hands up close. A 25mm rapid fire gun - better at longer ranges but a bit unwieldy unless the sea is glass-smooth. 5 inch and 3 inch (diameter) major caliber gun rounds - great from a distance - they’re radar targeted. Finally - the upgraded Close-in Weapons system (CIWS), fires 4500 20mm rounds per minute and can be manually directed. 5 seconds would have turned any one of those “go-fasts” into confetti. All three ships should have had those mounts installed. That same upgraded mount is used to shoot down mortar rounds in Iraq, see here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/94BRkbFbITY&rel=1 (okay it’s a night shot - trust me, this is the real thing)
Like I said, the Iranians know the phrase “standing into danger”. There’s a reason why they hightailed it out of there once those words were spoken. They signaled their hostile intent when they indicated we would blow up, we had every right to destroy them.
JeffWeimer on January 9, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Whoops, double post - browser crashed, sorry!
JeffWeimer on January 9, 2008 at 7:31 PM
wow, I gotta go read your blog. That’s a lot of grade A beef, no wonder they named the big burger after you!
saus on January 9, 2008 at 7:31 PM
JeffWeimer on January 9, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Thank you very much for the info. The ROE are the ROE but 200 meters seems a little close. Maybe they should increase it to whatever range is available if a threat is made. 200 meters for a non-threatening vehicle is one thing. A LOT MORE than 200 meters to someone who says they are going to blow you up would be grounds for defensive action.
Thanks for the info though. I do love facts.
ThackerAgency on January 9, 2008 at 7:34 PM
U.S.S. Cole
Need we say more?
AmericanDad on January 9, 2008 at 7:42 PM
I’ve never eaten an Angus Burger (supposed to be quite nice).
aengus on January 9, 2008 at 7:42 PM
The Iranians won, that is how they will spin it. They are like Jackals and will nip and bite until they have worked up enough bravery to fully attack. They should have been swatted hard and sent home in pieces. It is their culture that our weakness is their courage. When forgien countries threaten us, we should take them at their word and not wait for the first bomb on our shores again.
rgranger on January 9, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Do Commercial Airlines have missiles?
We thought that those hijacking airplanes would not use themas missiles, so lets just play stupid some more and think the Iranians wont use their speed boats as torpedoes. I love living in the Dems 9-10 world.
WoosterOh on January 9, 2008 at 7:46 PM
Ahem. Jackals are stealthy and sleek and can take out Charles DeGaulle at 200 meters (provided he doesn’t kiss anybody).
thejackal on January 9, 2008 at 7:56 PM
It caused the price of oil to tick up. More than pays for itself. At worst it turns into a martyrdom operation, propaganda coup. Brave Iranians standing up to the Crusaders for the ummah…
Beagle on January 9, 2008 at 8:06 PM
We’ve never really had a good national discussion on HOW terrorism happens. They always use our guilt impulse against us. Democrats are the terrorists’ allies for this. The liberal’s key to power is in the manipulation of the same impulse.
I think it’s interesting to note that although we were conditioned to allow 9/11/01 to happen to us, on that date, we were not conditioned to allow this recent incident to happen to us. They wouldn’t have tried this soon after the USS Cole incident. They are looking for signs that we’ve unlearned certain lessons and returned to certain mindsets.
There are several tactics they use to lure us into doubting our own responses. Suicide car bombers speeding towards checkpoints will be followed by women and children passengers in cars being driven in a menacing manner toward checkpoints in the hope that sentries will open fire. This gives them a propaganda victory with the help of the UN/Democrats.
Menacing activities by Muslims on airplanes designed to make us question if we are being paranoid. The purpose of which is to make us unlearn the lesson of 9/11 when hundreds of people sat on their hands while 19 Muslims with box cutters threw our nation into havoc.
We should be able to see the similarity with these tactics and the actions of speed boats in the vicinity of our naval vessels.
Buddahpundit on January 9, 2008 at 8:10 PM
From their perspective they’re not wrong.
Why would they fully attack? They’ve been nipping and biting for 29 years and so far its served their purposes.
Yes, exactly. Be done with them. Waiting for a Pearl Harbour-style “full attack” is not only foolish its immoral and an abdication of responsibility. In my opinion they are America’s second worst ever enemy after imperial Japan (yes worse than Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia).
Ayatollah’s Blue Book is more apocalyptic than the Tanaka Memorial and just as - if not more - imperial.
aengus on January 9, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Our guys should have put a few bursts of .50 cal into the engines of those craft, and watched the persian scum swim back to shore. Engage the equipment and disable it. Self defence, reasonable according to common sense ROE. And if a few rounds happened to work over some Iranian “sailors”, oh well. Browning M2 is a difficult beast to control.
Green 6 golf on January 9, 2008 at 8:44 PM
It appears the Congressman/Admiral didn’t like the cross examination.
Does anyone know anything furter about the use of “long range acoustic device” LRAD weapons in IRAQ? It would appear to have been useful in this situation.
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone1/lrad.html
“At 100 yards, the LRAD beam is extremely painful, but it is typically used at ranges of 300 to 500 yards as a warning or deterrent weapon. LRAD’s are used by the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard to warn off approaching vessels, and the weapon has been tested in Iraq in various capacities.”
diogenes on January 9, 2008 at 8:58 PM
I say they should have hammered the boats so hard there would be no evidence that they ever existed, then disavow any knowledge of any boats.
Patrick S on January 9, 2008 at 8:59 PM
aahh I wonder what McArther would’ve done…. I suspect he would’ve made a new reef outa those boats.
whiskeytango on January 9, 2008 at 9:02 PM
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