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Audio: TNR editor pores through the archives of Ron Paul’s newsletters; Update: TNR article now available; Update: PJM has more; Update: Ron Paul responds

posted at 1:04 pm on January 8, 2008 by Allahpundit
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It’s James Kirchick, who earned the wrath of the blogosphere’s resident Conservative of Doubt a few months ago by daring to criticize Paul for pocketing campaign cash donated by known Nazis. Curious as to how Paul assembled such a jolly constituency of white supremacists, Truthers, et al., Kirchick went hunting for Paul’s old newsletters and found copies in a pair of university libraries. Or so he says — supposedly they’re being published on TNR sometime today. Reserve judgment until you can read them for yourself, as they simply can’t be as brutally bad as Kirchick makes them out to be. For one thing, if they were, Paul could never have gotten elected to Congress; for another thing, it is, after all, TNR. And yet Kirchick’s obviously confident enough in what he found to go on the air here with Gibby and make accusations. It’s nine minutes plus but bear with it. Devastating.

Update: Lest there be any confusion, Kirchick isn’t the editor of TNR. (We know who that is.) He’s the assistant to the editor.

Update: Here’s Kirchick’s report. Transcripts of the newsletters should be available on the site soon.

[W]hoever actually wrote them, the newsletters I saw all had one thing in common: They were published under a banner containing Paul’s name, and the articles (except for one special edition of a newsletter that contained the byline of another writer) seem designed to create the impression that they were written by him–and reflected his views. What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays. In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing–but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics…

Paul’s campaign wants to depict its candidate as a naïve, absentee overseer, with minimal knowledge of what his underlings were doing on his behalf. This portrayal might be more believable if extremist views had cropped up in the newsletters only sporadically–or if the newsletters had just been published for a short time. But it is difficult to imagine how Paul could allow material consistently saturated in racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy-mongering to be printed under his name for so long if he did not share these views. In that respect, whether or not Paul personally wrote the most offensive passages is almost beside the point. If he disagreed with what was being written under his name, you would think that at some point–over the course of decades–he would have done something about it.

Lots of anti-black, anti-Israel, pro-militia nuttiness at the link. This guy’s been in Congress for 31 years. No one in his district was able to beat him with this on his record?

Update: Excerpts galore at Pajamas Media.

Update (bp): Here’s Kirchick’s interview with Tucker Carlson, who has been supporting Paul and traveling with him. Note Carlson’s reluctance to believe that this garbage came from Paul even though it was printed by Paul under his name. Tucker will probably come around in a day or two, but will most of Paul’s supporters? Not without some ugliness, imho.

Update: Here’s Paul’s response. No denials that this material appeared in his newsletter; only a denial that he agrees with it. He says he takes “moral responsibility” for the content, though. In which case, how about dropping out?


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Wow! The paulnuts make this place smell like a nazi zylkon B factory…

If you think this is bad, head over to the Pajamas Media story. They’ve been Paulluted!

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 7:25 PM

I realize the dollar’s in freefall, and the economy not so hot these days, but haven’t you guys been urging us to “buy gold” due to our imminent economic collapse for the past, oh, three decades or so?

Aside from giving the next Harry Browne/Ron Paul fringe candidate a few million dollars in seed money for a future presidential bid, what exactly does it have to recommend it as an investment?

Gerard on January 8, 2008 at 7:29 PM

Romney advocating a Massatwoshits style healthplan where the gubmint pays for things isn’t socialism?

Romney’s Mass. plan isn’t Socialism. He’s not taking over the insurance business, he’s not taking over the hospitals. While I agree it’s terrible, and it’s not free market, it also isn’t socialism.

It seems your definition of socialism is “anything that’s not communist or capitalist” that’s not true.

Um, no he didn’t.

He took moral responsibility back in 2002 when it came to light for the second time. When it came to light the first time in 1996, he said it was out of context.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 7:30 PM

This thread is a comedic tragedy.

I know it’s difficult for the sane among us to resist engaging these creeptards.

But, discussing anything with them is like arguing a toothless drunk. You’re going to get spit on. Even if the moron doesn’t want to spit on you, he doesn’t have any teeth to prevent it.

At some point he just stops caring about the crap flying out his mouth.

Ron Paul is a bigot’s bigot. You may support him because of his stalwart posturing on constitutional issues. But ultimately that is an excuse to tickle your tweaker motives.

Ron Paul is a political meth lab.

The Race Card on January 8, 2008 at 7:31 PM

For those advocating the “ghost-writer” theory, most, if not all, scans posted contain articles written in the first person.

There is no evidence I could find where Ron Paul was referred to in the third person, as one might expect from a co-writer.

Furthermore, there is no masthead or credit to any editor or staff, as would be customary in a publication put together by multiple people.

How plausible is it that, for a decade or more, some anonymous person would edit, write and publish Paul’s newsletter without any by-line credit, or acknowledgement as a contributor/editor?

And surely Dr. Paul should remember the name of someone who helped him so much and did so much work on his behalf with his newsletter for all those years.

LagunaDave on January 8, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 7:25 PM

Paulluted. Nice.

Ron Paul really didn’t approve the articles in his namesake newsletter.

N***a paulease.

The Race Card on January 8, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Ron Paul is not responsible for the Ron Paul Newsletters. If Ron Paul was responsible for the Ron Paul Newsletters then they would be known as the Ron Paul NewslettersRon Paul is Responsible for These Newsletters…

If you think this is bad, head over to the Pajamas Media story. They’ve been Paulluted!

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 7:25 PM

The Force is strong with them at TNR as well… it’s like somebody turned on a giant microwave and all the shiny party hats fused at once…

elgeneralisimo on January 8, 2008 at 7:39 PM

Does anyone have any verified RP documents that can be used to compare writing style, word usage, etc.?

It wouldn’t be definitive but, if there were similarities, it would be one more nail in the coffin.

Timothy S. Carlson on January 8, 2008 at 7:41 PM

The paulistinians are just plain freaky creepy. How obtuse do you have to be to rationalize bigotry??? Its funny how they so obviously display in their comments the hatred that Paul supposedly does not have. LOL!!!!

Andy in Agoura Hills on January 8, 2008 at 7:42 PM

The Force is strong with them at TNR as well… it’s like somebody turned on a giant microwave and all the shiny party hats fused at once…

Ooooooooo – sparklers!

Timothy S. Carlson on January 8, 2008 at 7:42 PM

Does anyone have any verified RP documents that can be used to compare writing style, word usage, etc.?

It wouldn’t be definitive but, if there were similarities, it would be one more nail in the coffin.

And if there weren’t similarities, would you eat the coffin (i.e. retract the accusation) ?

Mark Jaquith on January 8, 2008 at 7:43 PM

We Paulites know the economics. If Ron Paul isn’t elected, then I hope to God you own gold and silver.

Peace to you all!

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 6:47 PM

the Bible says not to worry

jp on January 8, 2008 at 7:44 PM

And if there weren’t similarities, would you eat the coffin (i.e. retract the accusation) ?

Uh… No.

There’s too much other evidence to the contrary at this time.

Timothy S. Carlson on January 8, 2008 at 7:45 PM

Excellent response. Not to nit-pick, but did you mean South Korea?

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 7:11 PM

My point was that he can’t offend South Vietnam because they no longer exist.

Dude can’t answer a straight question without diverting to another area where he thinks he’s got a chance. It’s sad, but I’ve watched that “tactic” on the internet since before the Web got started. You never ever get an answer, just another question. In the most maddening cases, they actually think they answered you by dodging to another question, and get offended when you won’t entertain them any more.

I had hoped, years ago, that the massive interconnectivity of the Web would allow people to stop this and other time-wasting tactics, but the opposite has occurred.

Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 7:46 PM

Ok, you’re obviously a troll. I have my problems with Romney, being a communist isn’t one of them.

Was Eisenhower a communist too?

Well, obviously Romney isn’t a commie, I was going over the top. He IS a socialist though.

Socialism is a system of government wherein the government owns and operates the means of production.

And the gubmint taking over the healthcare system wouldn’t be controlling production?

No Republican candidate plans to own and operate the means of production.

Romney advocating a Massatwoshits style healthplan where the gubmint pays for things isn’t socialism?

RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 6:03 PM

RWLA – whatever the heck that is – must be working the disinformation campaign for some ‘udder candidate.
The fact is, Romney’s progrom calls for “required” purchase of health insurance. In other words, if the “gubmunt” deems YOU can afford health care, you MUST pay or go to jail. Sure, there are “credits” to help you PAY if you’re too poor – but EVERYONE must pay something.
I would suspect many of you so-called Repub conservatives support this idea of “financial responsibility.” Anyone familiar with divorce courts will know just how ludicrous the govt.s’ definition of ‘ability to pay’ is.
So your are WRONG RWLF – whatever the heck that means – to disinformate Romney’s plan.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support the guy. I support none of them. I stopped voting in ‘96 when we put up Dole against Clinton the First.
Our so-called “Liberty” is a sham. Oh, it’s real that we have inalienable God-given rights to liberty – but no govt. on Earth will ever allow it.

And again, all you have to do is listen to Pauley speak and you will realize what a nut the guy is. And frankly if any of his supports swallow his crap they need to seek out a shrink immediately. And guys, do your research: While Jefferson may have been an anti-Federalist, he realized once in office that some form of a strong central “gubmint” was necessary to protect our basic liberties. It was slowing getting to where we are now, but all is lost, now, and you might as well admit it. Learn spanish and chinese you want to survive in the coming world.
Me, I’m getting the hell off while I can.

PS: The civil war was fought over state’s rights, but slavery had to go. You idiots that deny the war wasn’t fought over slavery don’t know what the heck you’re talking about. Just a bunch of “Rebels” that have idolized a past that permitted slavery and don’t understand the reality of what the South was.

And I hail from Texas, so I know exactly the mindset I see being displayed in defense of Pauley.

mksmithwriter on January 8, 2008 at 7:50 PM

For those advocating the “ghost-writer” theory, most, if not all, scans posted contain articles written in the first person.

LagunaDave on January 8, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Looking into this one.

My initial thought is Paul does not write all of his newsletters that were put out, they were delegated to other staff members. Those staff members wrote the articles in first person which give the appearance that Paul wrote them. If it wasnt for the sentence stating King was a pedophile the rest of his statements on King sounded plausible. Its been reported before that king was an adulterer

So, looking at it, the newsletter may be official from Paul but not written or reviewed by himself. One unfortunate sentence came back to hurt him 15+ years later.

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 7:51 PM

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 7:51 PM

What kind of people does Ron Paul keep on staff?

Oh right… Lew Rockwell…

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 7:54 PM

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 7:51 PM

Looks like Occam’s razor has blunted itself on your obdurance.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 7:55 PM

What do

Mark Jaquith
Fed Up
Jimmy Liberty
muyoso

All have in common…They are certified Paultards….They all suffer from reality denial….

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 7:57 PM

Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 7:46 PM

Gotcha’. I missed it.

Thanks again for an excellent response.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 7:59 PM

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 7:57 PM

Oh yea, add offroadaz to that list……

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 7:59 PM

Dear Hot Air staff

for some reason I’m not getting a dialogue box on the Brian Wms “Hard to be OBjective” for Obama.

wepeople on January 8, 2008 at 8:00 PM

obdurance.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 7:55 PM

sorry but what is obdurance?

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:02 PM

What do

Mark Jaquith
Fed Up
Jimmy Liberty
muyoso
All have in common…They are certified Paultards….They all suffer from reality denial….

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 7:57 PM

Yes, and you’re a popular rockstar…

Why don’t you take something I said and debate me on it rather than attack the messenger. A sure sign of ignorance is attacking the individual and not the message.

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:02 PM

Oh yea, add offroadaz to that list……

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 7:59 PM

hah I thought you forgot about me

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:03 PM

Yep, one sentence. One single, solitary sentence. Not more than one. Just one.

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:05 PM

I must move on to other things now…

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 6:47 PM

Good work!

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:07 PM

Yep, one sentence. One single, solitary sentence. Not more than one. Just one.

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:05 PM

relating to lagunadaves link to the scan on tnr, yes that is what I think. The other things mentioned in that dont cause much of a stir

also that newsletter seems rather disjointed and doesnt look like other newsletters paul has put out, almost looks like it is from several sources and put together with the merry christmas tag at the end

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:07 PM

I must move on to other things now…

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Good work!

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:07 PM

Finished and came back…

Don’t you have insurance to sell?

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:08 PM

also that newsletter seems rather disjointed and doesnt look like other newsletters paul has put out, almost looks like it is from several sources and put together with the merry christmas tag at the end

I was thinking it was done in Microsoft Word myself.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 8:10 PM

also that newsletter seems rather disjointed and doesnt look like other newsletters paul has put out, almost looks like it is from several sources and put together with the merry christmas tag at the end

your probly right, it’s like a plot or something

Don’t you have insurance to sell?

Please pass the ketchup, I think it’s going to rain!

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:10 PM

your probly right, it’s like a plot or something

not like TNR hasnt published false documents and reports before :-/

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:12 PM

sorry but what is obdurance?

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:02 PM

It’s a word. More specifically it is a word signifying intractability or stubborness, a refusal to face up to contrary evidence and/or thick-headedness. It’s not as common as it once was, although the condition it describes certainly is.

On this thread, for instance.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 8:12 PM

If there are racial diatribes in “your” newsletter you are a racist.
If your campaign accepts money from organizations like the KKK or neo-nazis, you are a racist.

infidel on January 8, 2008 at 8:13 PM

Yes, and you’re a popular rockstar…

Why don’t you take something I said and debate me on it rather than attack the messenger. A sure sign of ignorance is attacking the individual and not the message.

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:02 PM

Why don’t I just beat my head against the wall until it’s bloody and I have a concussion, it’ll accomplish the exact same thing and wont take but a fraction of the time. The only difference is…Beating my head against the wall wouldn’t hurt as much and you would learn more…

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:10 PM

Sorry Jim…I confused your name with someone else…

clicked on your name and saw you weren’t the same person I remembered clicking on before…

my bad..

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

Why don’t I just beat my head against the wall until it’s bloody and I have a concussion, it’ll accomplish the exact same thing and wont take but a fraction of the time. The only difference is…Beating my head against the wall wouldn’t hurt as much and you would learn more…

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

Thanks for making my point..

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

not like TNR hasnt published false documents and reports before

which makes them even more likely to do it now because hey nobodys paying attention

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:16 PM

It’s a word. More specifically it is a word signifying intractability or stubborness, a refusal to face up to contrary evidence and/or thick-headedness. It’s not as common as it once was, although the condition it describes certainly is.

On this thread, for instance.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 8:12 PM

ah, couldnt find it in the dictionary

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:16 PM

LagunaDave gets quoted on AoSHQ and LGF!!

Congrats!!

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 8:18 PM

which makes them even more likely to do it now because hey nobodys paying attention

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:16 PM

Charles over at LGF found Pauls news letter and posted it months ago.

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 8:20 PM

From the Only Man Who Can Save America to … purple mimeographed newsletter mascot in one thread.

rEVOLution!

Cuffy Meigs on January 8, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Charles over at LGF found Pauls news letter and posted it months ago.

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Yeah I read those, but he didnt post the one in question in regards to King

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:21 PM

Thanks for making my point..

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM

And this is why Ron Paul supporters are referred to as Paultards…Not very bright, but in their minds always right…

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 8:22 PM

Charles over at LGF found Pauls news letter and posted it months ago.

yeah well you know thats just like your opinion man

i like typing like this, makes me feel like cormac mccarthy

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 8:23 PM

offroadaz on January 8, 2008 at 8:16 PM

The OED is the only way to go, but it ends up making me sound like a professor of early romantic literature at the bar. But that’s a good way of choosing a bar: do you get your drinks fast, do they have dartboards, do they have lots of reference books to settle bets? If so, you are most likely in a good place.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 8:24 PM

And just like that, the headlines were gone. Guess the OPen Thread ate them.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 8:29 PM

And they’re back. Smooth work, AP. Very smooth indeed.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 8:31 PM

And this is why Ron Paul supporters are referred to as Paultards…Not very bright, but in their minds always right…

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 8:22 PM

nice try to spin it like a Fox News show doriangrey, but I tried to get you to debate me on something I had said and you opted to choose not to.

Here’s how others on Michelle’s site have respond when challenged:

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/the-cnnyoutube-debate-edginess-elbows-eh/#comment-183591

Hope to hear your music in San Diego someday…and we can have a beer and talk about politics at “The Field.”

Peace…

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM

I’m sure I saw this on LGF a few months ago.

OneGyT on January 8, 2008 at 8:57 PM

nice try to spin it like a Fox News show doriangrey, but I tried to get you to debate me on something I had said and you opted to choose not to.

Here’s how others on Michelle’s site have respond when challenged:

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/28/the-cnnyoutube-debate-edginess-elbows-eh/#comment-183591

Hope to hear your music in San Diego someday…and we can have a beer and talk about politics at “The Field.”

Peace…

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM

Debate you? You’ve been making kool-aid with your bong water again haven’t you…I would have better luck teaching a pig to sing than I would of getting a rational intelligent dialog out of a Ron Paul supporter. By allowing it in his news letter Ron Paul endorsed everything that was printed in his news letter. Nobody and I means nobody endorses crap like that for 30 years and doesn’t know it or approve of it.

There is nothing to debate about. Ron Paul’s claims of ignorance are as hollow and false as Rudolph Hess’s and Heinrich Himmler claims that Adolph Hitler didn’t know what was going on in the German concentration camps.

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 9:01 PM

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 9:01 PM

unreal…

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 9:06 PM

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 9:01 PM

unreal…

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 9:06 PM

No, and that is exactly the problem. Your grasp on reality clearly is tenuous at best. To disregard the mountains of evidence that have been piling up all year regarding Ron Paul displays all the hallmarks of a psychotic break from reality. Having a rational intelligent discussion with you would be like trying to discuss 911 with a truther. You fervently believe that what you believe is rational, the problem is that it’s not.

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM

Ru Paul has a better chance of getting elected.

Bikerken on January 8, 2008 at 9:18 PM

OMG! Ron Paul’s new huge ass billboard ends in a catastrophe!

Egfrow on January 8, 2008 at 9:25 PM

No, and that is exactly the problem. Your grasp on reality clearly is tenuous at best. To disregard the mountains of evidence that have been piling up all year regarding Ron Paul displays all the hallmarks of a psychotic break from reality. Having a rational intelligent discussion with you would be like trying to discuss 911 with a truther. You fervently believe that what you believe is rational, the problem is that it’s not.

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM

and debating you would be like debating my 12 year old nephew. You bring nothing to the table but accusations. You have zero substance in your diatribe. Let’s talk economics for a moment shall we? If you went to a university, which I highly doubt, then perhaps you can explain to me how a Keynesian credit expansion economy is good for America? How it’s good for the U.S. dollar? What’s that? You don’t know what Keynesian economics is? How about the Austrian philosophy that Ron Paul espouses? Maybe you can tell me how your candidate is going to turn the freefall of the dollar around? What’s that? You don’t have a candidate?

Again, all you do is attack the individual failing miserably at neuro linguistic persuasion.

I “fervently believe” and can back up anything I say.

And I’m done responding to your futile attempts at a meaningful discussion.

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 9:32 PM

And I’m done responding to your futile attempts at a meaningful discussion.

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 9:32 PM

I don’t think he was attempting a meaningful discussion.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 9:36 PM

I gotta’ ask…..

All of you ronulans that jumped on board during the last opening,,,,did you REALLY think that you were going to win converts???

You all claimed to have been “long time lurkers”. Were you lying? Did you really not know what would happen when you started spouting your moonbat craziness?

You rush into blogs and yell “RON PAUL AKBAR” and detonate yourselves. BOOM!

In 24 hours, you ronulans have identified yourselves here as such and it will NEVER be forgotten.

Perhaps Ron Paul’s movement has been hijacked by extremists just like that religion of peace??

Perhaps Hot Air provoked you all into your insane diatribes not unlike FDR provoked the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor?

You claim to be libertarian………so why would you give a rat’s bottom what the folks that frequent this site think? Would a TRUE libertarian ACTIVELY try to change another persons point of view??? How libertarian is that???

No-one has tried to deny any of you from voting for the candidate of your choice. No-one has denied Paul from running. Yet it never failed that you ronulans came out of the woodwork EVERY SINGLE TIME an online poll was run and you jammed the poll.

It was all fake from the start. You have been following a ghost. One year from now, Ron Paul will have forgotten about all of you and he will be living a better life than you are. Safe with his congressional retirement and health care.

And you will be paying for ALL of it.

Have a nice day.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 9:36 PM

You know, after a certain point you have to admit that the squat, white, feathered creature with webbed feet and a bill saying “quack quack” is a duck.

A little conspiracy-mongering, racist duck with delusions of grandeur.

JohnTant on January 8, 2008 at 9:58 PM

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Actually I did go yo University, B.F.A in music, thank you very much for once again proving why Paultard are well Paultards…

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 10:15 PM

For what it’s worth, Ron Paul tears warmongerer Laura Ingraham and new you-know-what in this little debate about the war. That’s a man, baby, that’s not a woman. What the heck would she do without the war?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jJXRa2n6Fe4

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:24 PM

I’m listening to this Ingraham interview again and it’s so clear that all the Republicans have going for them is fear. It’s fear China, fear Russia, fear the Arabs, fear the Persians, fear the gays. Jeez, used to be a Republican feared the state. Not any more. Friggin Republicans worship the state and call themselves Christians and/or conservatives! What a load.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:30 PM

and debating you would be like debating my 12 year old nephew.
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Your 12 year old nephew beats you in debates?

Not surprising.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 10:36 PM

Mark Jaquith
Fed Up
Jimmy Liberty
muyoso
offroadaz

And now to that list of Paultards we add …….Drum………

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 10:38 PM

Your 12 year old nephew beats you in debates?

Not surprising.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 10:36 PM

Heh heh he no shit…Like a typical Paultard he starts spouting cr@p about Keynesian economics as if he has every heard of it outside of a Ron Paul thread. Oh and Puke up, I’m a Reagan Conservative, can you guess what that means?

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM

Oh and Puke up, I’m a Reagan Conservative, can you guess what that means?

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM

You hate freedom?

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 10:43 PM

And now to that list of Paultards we add …….Drum………

doriangrey on January 8, 2008 at 10:38 PM

F*ck you, dorian. You probably haven’t a conservative bone in your body. Stop the pretending, you little totalitarian.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:45 PM

One year from now, Ron Paul will have forgotten about all of you and he will be living a better life than you are. Safe with his congressional retirement and health care.

And you will be paying for ALL of it.

Have a nice day.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 9:36 PM

And 10 years from now you’ll be standing in a soup line.

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 10:46 PM

F*ck you, dorian. You probably haven’t a conservative bone in your body. Stop the pretending, you little totalitarian.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:45 PM

Please, please. Let’s not turn this into a Republican Primary Debate.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 10:47 PM

Please, please. Let’s not turn this into a Republican Primary Debate.

No, it’ll only become that if Allah, Bryan, or Michelle, start kicking the non-conformist antiwar members off the list.

Of course, let me be the first in line to say that it’s their list to do with as they wish.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:50 PM

No, it’ll only become that if Allah, Bryan, or Michelle, start kicking the non-conformist antiwar members off the list.

Of course, let me be the first in line to say that it’s their list to do with as they wish.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:50 PM

Actually I was referring to your attempt at a “I’m more conservative than you!” shouting match.

But if you want to stretch it out to a reference to the most current debate.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 10:52 PM

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 10:52 PM

Well, jeez, I see very little conservatism in this present campaign. Or am I missing something? Perhaps I’m not consumed with enough fear.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:01 PM

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:01 PM

No, you just obviously haven’t been watching the debates.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:03 PM

Of course, let me be the first in line to say that it’s their list to do with as they wish.

Your selfless magnanimity is noted.

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 11:05 PM

That’s a man, baby, that’s not a woman. What the heck would she do without the war?
Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:24 PM

Yep, just interested in a little honest, open debate on the issues. Using a little gentle persuasion to prove the superiority of his argument. Dispassionately elevating the conversation.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 11:05 PM

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:03 PM

No, I have been watching them very closely and there is nothing conservative about them with the exception of a bit of nodding and winking toward border sovereignty. Alas, our sovereignty means absolutely nothing if we go around the world denying other nations theirs. Or do you fancy this a conservative characteristic of America? It’s OK to overthrow, invade, conquer, destroy, other countries, but God-damn you if you’re crossing our borders illegally. We have laws against that sort of thing!

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 10:30 PM

Tell me again about that part of Christianity that says we should hate blacks, jews and homosexuals. Chapter and verse please.

The KKK and the arian nation do the same thing. Claim to have biblical support behind their f’ed up doctrine.

Quote it.

I spent four years at a theological college. Non-denominational. Exegesis studies for all four years.

Now quote it.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 11:09 PM

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:08 PM

So, you haven’t watched any of the debates. Which were basically a “I’m More Conservative Than You!” shouting match.

Yep.

*Backs away slowly*

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Hey Talon,

I’ve already made it clear what I think about Ron Paul and his handling of this mess and you can check to see what I’ve said if it means that much to your evangelical non-denominational soul to do so.

But what I think about Ron Paul, and the failings of Ron Paul, don’t change the fact that a very nonconservative and non-Christian spirit has overtaken those who claim such for themselves.

So let me ask you: where in God’s precious Word is the command to conquer a nation that didn’t threaten us, which leads to the murder of your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:14 PM

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:12 PM

No, you don’t get it: how can they be claiming to be more conservative than the other when none of them are conservative in the first place? Or is there something conservative in running on a platform based upon fear, conquest, and confiscation?

I mean, take Talon for instance, he may have spent years studying and proclaiming the Lord’s Word, but this certainly doesn’t make him a Christian. Does it?

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:17 PM

Hey all, especially dorian,
Sorry for jumping in late. I cant linger as I have to get up to teach 8th grade math tomorrow. I just wanted to make sure you (dorian) didn’t forget to:

ADD MY NAME TO THE “paultard” LIST

Thanks,
y2

PS I am indeed disheartened by these newsletters. So far I’m setting back and waiting for the laundry to wash out as it does with time. We shall see what truth therein lies.

PPS Hey Talon – non-denom evangelical college degree here as well. I have no problem with Paul’s Christianity. I take him at his current word, which is all I can do.

y2church on January 8, 2008 at 11:20 PM

It’s OK to overthrow, invade, conquer, destroy, other countries, but God-damn you if you’re crossing our borders illegally. We have laws against that sort of thing!

Well one of these things is, you know, illegal whereas other things, like getting Congressional authorization are legal. Loading up bills that are guaranteed to pass with pork so that you can vote against them (maintaining your anti-pork voting record), but still get the pork, is also legal. One could argue that it is dishonest, but it is not illegal.

Uncle Pinky on January 8, 2008 at 11:21 PM

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:17 PM

Can you read? Or is it your mind that’s broken?

I NEVER made a statement regarding the conservatism of any of the Republican candidates. I said that the primary debates consisted of each of them claiming they were more conservative than the other. That’s it.

And I have never met Talon, nor can I see into his heart. I can’t give you that answer. No do I wish to.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:24 PM

And 10 years from now you’ll be standing in a soup line.

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 10:46 PM

Think again.

I do not rely on government hand outs to supply my family. I can provide for myself. Can you? Seems to me that YOU are so worried about the government because you have CHOSEN to allow yourself to become a slave to it. You can’t live without SOME SORT of government. You live in fear. I don’t need Ron Paul, George Bush or any other person to provide for me. I can do it on my own.

No ronulan….no soup line for me or my family. Soup lines are for those that have surrendered their individuality. Quitters.

Will Ron Paul give you soup? Does he even know how to make soup?

Who is John Galt?

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Who is John Galt?

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 11:28 PM

I wouldn’t ask that if I were you.

He may appear and give a 60 page speech.

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:29 PM

like getting Congressional authorization are legal.

Uncle Pinky,

So you’re saying conquering another country is legal (but is it constitutional?) which apparently makes it right. We’ve got legal abortion. Is it right? Moreover, you seem to have left out just one little, yet crucial, detail — a detail that nationalist Republicans tend to forget increasingly (many of whom also cover themselves with the mantle of Christ): what do the laws of the people whom we’re conquering have to say about it? Or is it that America is always right? I guess that’s it.

So that’s what Jefferson and Adams and Washington were shooting for: self-righteousness.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:24 PM

Sorry. But you keep implying that I’ve missed something. I’ve missed nothing.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:34 PM

Soup lines are for those that have surrendered their individuality. Quitters.

Yeah, or for fellow Christians in Iraq who are suffering from an immoral American war.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:37 PM

“Conservatives” piling onto a leftist smear job and screaming “racist!” Who would have thought it could happen? Could someone point out to me exactly that language that constitutes “racism,” whatever that is?

Because the establishment of party hacks here who fawn over candidates who are not conservative, I am voting for Dr. Paul just to offset someone’s vote here.

Thanks to this site, I was going to stay home this election, but I am no longer undecided. I am for anyone HotAir is against.

Oh yeah, when is that pro-amnesty-for-mexican-invaders Patterico gonna show up writing here again? I always enjoy watching him masquerade as a “conservative.”

petit bourgeois on January 8, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Sorry. But you keep implying that I’ve missed something. I’ve missed nothing.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:34 PM

Of course that’s what you’d think. You aren’t looking at the full picture, the full spectrum of thought. All you are thinking is “Republicans aren’t Christians or Conservatives.”

What you missed was I was making a JOKE.

J
O
K
E

Humor!

Not intended to be taken seriously!

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Sorry, not feeling or picking up much humor today.

My apologies. Anger and rage are often blinding.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:43 PM

DRUM!

You threw down the gauntlet regarding Christians/conservatives. Show me a Bible verse that sanctifies turning a blind eye to a “brother or sister” in their suffering or time of need.

Does the parable of the good Samaritan ring a bell??? Luke 10:25-37.

Ron Paul would have walked by.

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 11:44 PM

Talon on January 8, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Think again.

I do not rely on government hand outs to supply my family. I can provide for myself. Can you? Seems to me that YOU are so worried about the government because you have CHOSEN to allow yourself to become a slave to it. You can’t live without SOME SORT of government. You live in fear. I don’t need Ron Paul, George Bush or any other person to provide for me. I can do it on my own.

No ronulan….no soup line for me or my family. Soup lines are for those that have surrendered their individuality. Quitters.

You miss my point entireley Talon…

You’ll be standing in the soup line for the same reason The People did in the 30’s…because the government you, the “New” Republicans espouse, the ones that pay no attention to the Constitution (you know, that “Goddamned Piece of Paper”)…will bankrupt this country and your worthless fiat dollars won’t do nothing but wipe your warmongering ass.

Got gold?

Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 11:45 PM

petit bourgeois on January 8, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Dittos. My vote’s for Hillary or Obama or Satan if I have to. Anyone but MittMcHuckiani.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:47 PM

The rEVOLution is now the REVOlution.

And that is rather unfortunate too. Now there are really no choices in either two parties if you happen to care about fiscal responsibility, civil liberties, and sensible foreign policy. There are nothing but nanny state imperialists left. And I do not trust those atheists at the AEI that influence our foreign policy, of which Fred is a member. You should read the wacky conspiracy stuff that they read.

LevStrauss on January 8, 2008 at 11:48 PM

TALON! You’ve yet to search this thread to see what I’ve registered re: Ron Paul’s handling of this issue now and twenty years ago.

Drum on January 8, 2008 at 11:48 PM

I am for anyone HotAir is against.

He sure showed us. [slinks away with tail between legs]

Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 11:49 PM

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