Audio: TNR editor pores through the archives of Ron Paul’s newsletters; Update: TNR article now available; Update: PJM has more; Update: Ron Paul responds
posted at 1:04 pm on January 8, 2008 by Allahpundit
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It’s James Kirchick, who earned the wrath of the blogosphere’s resident Conservative of Doubt a few months ago by daring to criticize Paul for pocketing campaign cash donated by known Nazis. Curious as to how Paul assembled such a jolly constituency of white supremacists, Truthers, et al., Kirchick went hunting for Paul’s old newsletters and found copies in a pair of university libraries. Or so he says — supposedly they’re being published on TNR sometime today. Reserve judgment until you can read them for yourself, as they simply can’t be as brutally bad as Kirchick makes them out to be. For one thing, if they were, Paul could never have gotten elected to Congress; for another thing, it is, after all, TNR. And yet Kirchick’s obviously confident enough in what he found to go on the air here with Gibby and make accusations. It’s nine minutes plus but bear with it. Devastating.
Update: Lest there be any confusion, Kirchick isn’t the editor of TNR. (We know who that is.) He’s the assistant to the editor.
Update: Here’s Kirchick’s report. Transcripts of the newsletters should be available on the site soon.
[W]hoever actually wrote them, the newsletters I saw all had one thing in common: They were published under a banner containing Paul’s name, and the articles (except for one special edition of a newsletter that contained the byline of another writer) seem designed to create the impression that they were written by him–and reflected his views. What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays. In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing–but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics…
Paul’s campaign wants to depict its candidate as a naïve, absentee overseer, with minimal knowledge of what his underlings were doing on his behalf. This portrayal might be more believable if extremist views had cropped up in the newsletters only sporadically–or if the newsletters had just been published for a short time. But it is difficult to imagine how Paul could allow material consistently saturated in racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy-mongering to be printed under his name for so long if he did not share these views. In that respect, whether or not Paul personally wrote the most offensive passages is almost beside the point. If he disagreed with what was being written under his name, you would think that at some point–over the course of decades–he would have done something about it.
Lots of anti-black, anti-Israel, pro-militia nuttiness at the link. This guy’s been in Congress for 31 years. No one in his district was able to beat him with this on his record?
Update: Excerpts galore at Pajamas Media.
Update (bp): Here’s Kirchick’s interview with Tucker Carlson, who has been supporting Paul and traveling with him. Note Carlson’s reluctance to believe that this garbage came from Paul even though it was printed by Paul under his name. Tucker will probably come around in a day or two, but will most of Paul’s supporters? Not without some ugliness, imho.
Update: Here’s Paul’s response. No denials that this material appeared in his newsletter; only a denial that he agrees with it. He says he takes “moral responsibility” for the content, though. In which case, how about dropping out?
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Uhhhhhhhhh………..published under his name and he did not edit it???? Did he read it?
Ron Paul is insane.
Talon on January 8, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Does it hurt to be that willfully delusional, or is it kind of a blessedly peaceful narcotic numbness? Yours is the type of “thinking” that the Nazis drew heavily upon. I’m glad you are such a small ineffective minority.
Christoph on January 8, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Well, other than the false warmonger meme and the false “living in fear meme” and the contention that Paul would be able to accomplish anything fiscally with a Democrat congress, or for that matter that he could get elected at all with his consistent low numbers and the massive negatives that he refuses to shed, nope.
If RP had divested himself of the loons early on, it would have helped. If he had focused on one or two things he might be able to accomplish rather than pretending he could revamp the entire government with a hostile legislature and bureaucracy to contend with, that might have helped. But he didn’t do those things.
It’s like Alan Keyes, only worse. At some point you have to admit you’re not a contender and find something you can do to help. RP has absolutely ZERO chance as a 3rd party candidate, the only question is will he hurt Dems or Republicans more?
Is government too big and too intrusive? Sure. Is war nasty? Damn straight. But bumper stickers don’t solve real problems, like the problems that would be created if we abandoned ANOTHER ally, no matter how perfect, especially in the world’s most dangerous reason.
That alone means I CANNOT support RP – the whole “to hell with them on the other side of the world” attitude isn’t just short-sighted, it’s downright blind.
And I say that as a Libertarian – just not one of the Rockwell strain – who realizes that when there’s a big fire halfway across town, you may have to send your own fire trucks and volunteers over there to prevent the whole damned city from burning down.
Use a little damned imagination, people. Aggressive terror states are bad for the world, and we’re part of the world. Iran with nukes is bad for the world, and we’re part of the world.
Ideally, we wouldn’t need to get involved. But “ideally” doesn’t happen very often. Maybe in 10-20 years the region will be stabilized and we can sit back and relax. Maybe it won’t be stabilized. But actors from that region, state and non-state, are a threat, and sitting back and pretending they’re not will solve nothing.
You can spend all year bitching about past policies or actions, but the only thing you can affect is the future, and no one has come within a light-year of convincing me that walking away from this half-cooked meal is a good idea.
Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 4:33 PM
I’m not a Paul supporter and I haven’t done all the reading but I am wary of the use of pull-quotes particularly when some of his articulations have the ring of truth when one finds them in other contexts given by different voices. I think of Heather MacDonald, Jesse Jackson and others that don’t come to mind at the moment.
Don’t we all want to give special screening to people from the terrorist hotbeds of the world? Skin color, accent and dress are all telling points in making that judgement. Political correctness has forestalled following through on giving a good going over of Middle Eastern men on general principle so we suffer through the strip-searching of the white 83 year old grandmother in the wheel. We quake at the prospect of legal action from CAIR which has a membership of a few hundred people. Or the guerilla legal machinations of the American Communist Liberties Union.
Hasn’t the Rev. Jackson admitted himself that he contemplates switching to the other side of the street when he sees a group of young black males approaching. Seriously, in a hellhole like Washington DC is such a move a racist act or is it simply due caution. What is racist about taking note of the racial breakdown of the populations of our prisons?
The fact is that no one wants to contemplate the bald facts and try to cobble together these facts into a coherent
picture that might help us begin to address the situation in a cohesive way.
The black and latino communities are fighting the impulse to join the American experience and certainly the white population will have to do its part to change things but being afraid to talk about such things only exacerbates the difficulties of making progress. This is an immense problem and all we hear about is this or that aspect of the problem.
Don’t condemn Paul on the basis of pull quotes that seem to make him out to be some sort of cracker because it might be that upon reading his ouvre we might see the beginning of a rudimentary approach to the bigger problem.
You are not a racist for recognizing things and trying to order them into a hypothesis.
Flame away.
thegreatbeast on January 8, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Why did Ron Paul allow such a thing to happen? He is not an uneducated man. He had to know what risks he was taking to allow anyone to write under his name. Who allows such a thing without supervision? Why didn’t he stop the newsletter immediately from using his name when these offensive writings came out? It’s a truly lame explanation and not at all believeable.
katieanne on January 8, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Open registration brought in the idiots I see.
mram on January 8, 2008 at 4:36 PM
He can deny his racist history, but accepting funds from racist orginizations is the present.
Still a racist.
infidel on January 8, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Im Ron Paul and I dont approve of my own message
William Amos on January 8, 2008 at 4:37 PM
1. I don’t drink Kool-Aid. I drink coffee. Black.
2. Bush is not Ron Paul. Bush isn’t trying to eliminate the welfare state, eliminate the income tax, eliminate the Department of Education… I could go on. He got heat for vetoing that Children’s Health Care thing, and he couldn’t pass Privatized Social Security.
But you know, if we just elect Ron Paul…
3. Ronald Reagan ran on eliminating the Department of Education, he failed. There’s a lot of things Reagan promised to do but backed off from or compromised on.
4. My solution is NOT to elect a liberal. My solution is to elect someone who has laid out goals that can be achieved and will work in slowing the growth of government. Closest to that in my eyes is Fred Thompson.
I have yet to chose a candidate.
Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Fair enough, but does it also mean that I have to spend my own money (despite the fact that I’m broke and in debt) to help build the other guy’s house back up for him, and stay there until it’s done, while the entire time his family is throwing rocks at me and calling me names?
Not such a good analogy when you apply it fully.
fossten on January 8, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Oh and 5.
Ron Paul is no Ronald Reagan.
Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Good for him. He’s still a crappy executive and unqualified to be prez.
Cuffy Meigs on January 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Tucker Carlson?
That makes me cry. Figuratively.
Tucker is on Bubba The Love Sponge right now. He’s good on that show. He’s not the stuffed shirt that he is on MSNBC. He even lets fly the “F” word on occasion. (No, not ‘Fred’)
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM
he should quit, while he has all that money in the bank
jp on January 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Tucker Carlson?
That makes me cry. Figuratively.
Tucker is on Bubba The Love Sponge right now. He’s good on that show. He’s not the stuffed shirt that he is on MSNBC. He even lets fly the “F” word on occasion. (No, not ‘Fred’ The REAL “F” word)
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Bwaa, haaa, haaaa
Thankfully, I’m not Ron Paul, and I approve this message.
omnipotent on January 8, 2008 at 4:41 PM
I hope he does resign. Really.
But in the spirit of the Hot Air Moral High Ground, I also hope to hear of the resignations of every other candidate in the race (both parties) who voted for, and supported the starting of, and supports the continuation of, a war that has killed 4,000 Americans, 150,000 to 500,000 innocent Iraqis many of whom are Christians. Displaced 4,000,000 Iraqis, many of whom are Christian.
All or even most of that death and mayhem may not be at the hands of American troops, though it most certainly is the responsibility of the political elites of this nation.
If we’re gonna be moralists, then let’s the f*ck be real moralists.
Drum on January 8, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Heaven help us, they’re about to spawn!!!
db on January 8, 2008 at 4:42 PM
Do you want me to name all the things he HAS accomplished this year, despite an angry, opposition Congress? Your point is taken, but mine is valid as well.
Yeah, including Supreme Court justices. So you think the current crop of candidates will be any better?
I don’t disagree with you about Fred. But he doesn’t seem to want it. So where does that leave us? I heard Rush say yesterday that he believes many conservatives will sit out this election if we end up with somebody like Huck or Rudy. Do you think so?
Doesn’t that bother you, that not one of these candidates, after umpteen eleventy million debates, has managed to inspire you to vote for him?
fossten on January 8, 2008 at 4:43 PM
In the spirit of this thread, let me say: I like my coffee like I like my women.
Italian and nutty.
Cuffy Meigs on January 8, 2008 at 4:43 PM
And STILL, no one has found the way to refute that any of the other GOP candidates will bring socialized medicine to America. I guess you’re all OK with that.
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 4:44 PM
So his best defense is that he failed to manage a newsletter. Nice. Let’s put him in charge of the executive branch post haste.
Bryan on January 8, 2008 at 4:44 PM
*glub* *glub* *glub* …ya hear that? It’s the sound of a sinking ship.
SilverStar830 on January 8, 2008 at 4:44 PM
There is some bad stuff in the excerpts, but 50-75% of them are simply un-PC.
DaveS on January 8, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Quote totally discredited left-wing propaganda much?
LagunaDave on January 8, 2008 at 4:45 PM
So, we’re supposed to believe that a few writers were all, “Hey Ron Paul, can we publish a crank newsletter denouncing blacks, and Israel and stuff and put your name on it instead of ours?” And he was all, “Sure, publish away.” And, now he just claims, “Oh, that was my bad, sorry. I didn’t really believe any of that stuff.”
Yeah, nice try. Buh-bye.
someguy on January 8, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Baghdad Bob is that you?
infidel on January 8, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Obviously, you don’t grasp how Drudge works. He cycles through news stories, and if he things he has given it enough time on an especially busy day (and what could be going on today?) he publishes something new. Drudge didn’t retract this story. He simply does the same thing he’s done ever day he’s been around.
Nice try, though.
Bob Owens on January 8, 2008 at 4:48 PM
So explain to me the benefits of pulling out in the middle of the job. Don’t tell me we shouldn’t have done the job, because it’s too late for that, just tell me how you see this working out if we just up and quit in the middle.
Feel free to use historical examples for comparison.
Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 4:48 PM
OK, a**hole, I’ll take the low number from the Illiterate In Chief himself two years ago: “I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis.” – George W. Bush, Dec. 12, 2005, Philadelphia, Penn.
Feel better?
Drum on January 8, 2008 at 4:49 PM
I think this part is the news, from Paul’s press release.
This is not “old news”, they never dug up these new reports in the past, just other racial stuff.
I read once about these that there was a small distribution of them and its hard to get copies of all that went out, so not telling what may be floating around out there and how to get a hold of it.
maybe TNR got some of their source material from Sheets Byrd?
jp on January 8, 2008 at 4:49 PM
No one has refuted that Ron Paul will usher in an alien invasion that will turn us all into cattle.
On the other hand, it doesn’t really need refuting, does it?
Is this Paulite rhetoric? Make a bizarre allegation and because no one takes you seriously enough to respond, you claim that you’re “unrefuted?”
Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 4:50 PM
No it’s not. You seriously expect RON PAUL to convince a DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS to eliminate the INCOME TAX and put us on the fricken’ GOLD STANDARD? I’ll grant you that he’ll shut down government, but he won’t reduce its size. Ronald Reagan couldn’t accomplish that, he only flatlined government.
You said “Look what Reagan did his 8 years. TOTAL OPPOSITION to their proposals, yet they accomplished their goals.” As one of your arguments. So now you admit you were wrong, Ronald Reagan DIDN’T accomplish his goals and in fact failed in quite a few (still a great President), what makes you think Ron Paul can accomplish any of his?
The fact Fred doesn’t want it is refreshing to me. Sadly not to the electorate at large. I do think if Huck or Rudy make it people will sit out. Better that than running Ron Paul and killing the party. Hopefully when 2012 rolls around lessons will have been learned.
No it doesn’t. I’m a picky person.
Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 4:51 PM
I thought for sure it was the sound of someone sucking down Paulian Kool-Aid.
Lehosh on January 8, 2008 at 4:52 PM
imagine the attack ads that could be made from this against Paul, especially after his refusal to return Nazi contributions and still being against Civil Rights Act.
jp on January 8, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Merovign,
Thanks for the discourse…
What you fail to address is the economics of the choices our government makes. At some point the fiat dollar wall will come tumbling down.
You never see any of the fab 5 address the 9 trillion of debt our nation is in. We are the world’s largest debtor nation!
We can agree that a socialist/liberal/progressive agenda won’t be the solution. So our difference lie in what our nation stands for. Does it stand for one that polices the world as you believe we should? If so, how is this to be paid for except via inflation on the backs of future generations? What if the rug is pulled from under us like it was in 1933? Then indeed history would repeat itself.
Or…instead of having our armed forces in 130 different countries and threatening Iran and meddling in Pakistan, we work on securing our borders and get our own domestic house in order? Or should we just let the illegals continue to come in and the bridges to crumble?
Sooner or later we have to choose to take care of our own country rather than most others. We won’t lose allies by doing this, we’ll gain some. Ron Paul says trade with all nations. We were at war with Vietnam and now we trade with them. Being in Iraq hasn’t helped the average American has it? Oil hit $100 and gasoline has more than doubled. How can this mantra of Islamofacism and the attitude that “we should kill them before they kill us,” be good for America? (Former Presidential candidate and neocon Gary Bauer emailed me those exact words – I asked him what Bible verse backs that up as he runs a Christian website – he said the conversation is over.)
I’ll let you have the last word, but I’d like to hear your economic solutions that any of the Fab 5 have to offer in supporting the war and domestic policies without devaluing the dollar further.
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 4:55 PM
That’s the formula, yes.
They’ll screech that Smurfs are using florescent bulbs to steal our sweetest dreams, and when everyone is laughing they’ll say, “see! You can’t refute these obvious truths!!”
Lehosh on January 8, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Wow I have to agree… do you see those Tanks rumbling in the background?
upinak on January 8, 2008 at 4:56 PM
I just got back from voting. There were 3 Ronulans chanting, “Don’t believe the lies”.
Patrap on January 8, 2008 at 4:57 PM
The US national debt as a percentage of GDP is the lowest in the G-7.
LagunaDave on January 8, 2008 at 4:58 PM
I’m confused—I thought we weren’t supposed to care about Iraqis? America First.
Cuffy Meigs on January 8, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Scarey, glad to see you made it out alive.
upinak on January 8, 2008 at 4:59 PM
next question for Paul: Who did write these things? Name and Address please?
How could you have a report go out with your Name at the top and not edit its contents, for over a decade?
jp on January 8, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Is this Paulite rhetoric? Make a bizarre allegation and because no one takes you seriously enough to respond, you claim that you’re “unrefuted?”
No, what it IS, is pointing out to you that you’re supporting a SOCIALIST in the GOP if you’re supporting McCain, Romney, Huck, or Guiliani.
Based on the fact that you can’t respond, I’d say I hit the nail on the head.
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 4:59 PM
If it was the only “raised question” about you, Sir Paul, then maybe you would’ve had a chance. But the Nazi donations, among other things, put jsut enough doubt on you to have an effect. Not that you had a chance in the first place…
AlexB on January 8, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Is this Paulite rhetoric? Make a bizarre allegation and because no one takes you seriously enough to respond, you claim that you’re “unrefuted?”
No, what it IS, is pointing out to you that you’re supporting a SOCIALIST in the GOP if you’re supporting McCain, Romney, Huck, or Guiliani.
Based on the fact that you can’t respond, I’d say I hit the nail on the head.
Good job, conservatives.
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 5:00 PM
You truly are confused.
Drum on January 8, 2008 at 5:01 PM
OK, a**hole, I’ll take the low number from the Illiterate In Chief himself two years ago: “I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis.” – George W. Bush, Dec. 12, 2005, Philadelphia, Penn.
Feel better?
Who cares about Iraqi’s? Lets get over it. Who cares how many are dead?
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Define “socialist” RWLA.
Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 5:03 PM
What color is the sky on your planet?
LagunaDave on January 8, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Hear, hear!
Hear, hear, hearer!
Christoph on January 8, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Ron Paul is from a district close to me, in Texas. His constituents are getting more information about him, than they ever knew. From what I hear, he won’t be re-elected to the Senate. There is a local Houston blog who persued the Ron Paul/Nazi contributions before the national people looked into it. Good job local Houston blog!
american woman on January 8, 2008 at 5:06 PM
But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbor, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die. Exodus 21:14
elgeneralisimo on January 8, 2008 at 5:06 PM
The Paulbots will not be stopped………..
Do NOT vote for Ron Paul! (VIDEO)
- its a mock RP commercial that supports him.
I’m only half ashamed to say that I produced it, though I’ve never supported the mad doctors run.
Richard Bushnell on January 8, 2008 at 5:07 PM
What color is the sky on your planet?
This isn’t refutation, it’s obfuscation. I’m feeling vindicated.
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 5:07 PM
OK, how’s this for refutation: McCain, Romney, Huckabee and Giuliani are not socialists. Only an idiot could think otherwise.
LagunaDave on January 8, 2008 at 5:09 PM
No, actually, I did respond, and that was your hand, not a nail.
Maybe you’ll have more success defending Ron “Porky” Paul’s earmarks. Yeah, those Republicans are all socialists all right.
Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Hoo-wee, lotso’ nuts in this thread for sure!
Guess TNR was right for a change and it really touched a nerve.
thirteen28 on January 8, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Hah! Nice find.
Lehosh on January 8, 2008 at 5:11 PM
You know, for months these guys have gamed Technorati so that Ron Paul is always in the top 10 search results, whether he’s done anything that day (or week, or month…) or not. You’d think they’d be happy that he’s finally making some legitimate news.
Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 5:12 PM
So he admits that he’s just engaging in offhanded libel. Wow. My credibility meter just fell BELOW zero.
fossten on January 8, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Fossten, link please. I’ve seen this attributed to Kirchuk by a number of Paul supporters on numerous sites – with no link – EVER. IN my experience, RP supporters like to throw around accusations with no sources, so forgive me for believing that this may be another instance.
Link. Please.
Redhead Infidel on January 8, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Goose = cooked
RINO_Hunter on January 8, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Define “socialist” RWLA.
A supporter of socialism. Socialism is the point in between capitalism and communism (Romney’s ultimate goal)where wealth is redistributed to society as “needed”. A polar opposite to the capitalist way. Pick your favorite.
RWLA on January 8, 2008 at 5:15 PM
“Between 2000 and 2004, debt to GDP went from 14 to 26 percent. That puts us smack in between Brazil and Argentina on the eve of their financial crises in 2001, with debt to GDP ratios of 18 and 33 percent respectively. The full awkwardness of our situation can be best appreciated in light of the historical observation that until now, hegemonic powers have been net suppliers of capital to the rest of the world, not a net drain as the US is today.”
Do you really think things have gotten better since 2004?
Why is gold breaking to all-time highs today? hmmmm
Now add future obligations of social security, medicare, pension guaranty association bailout, subprime bailout, war in Iraq, insert catastrophere here, and what do you have?
The dollar is toast!
So fight your wars and bring America to its knees, on the backs of the hard working middle class. Follow the sheep over the cliff.
And know….”You reap what you sow.”
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM
I posted this earlier Red…
http://gays-for-ron.blogspot.com/2008/01/jamie-kirchick-i-dont-think-ron-paul-is.html
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:19 PM
I think you’re video’s disgusting. Take billions aware from the funeral industry indeed.
Christoph on January 8, 2008 at 5:19 PM
I used to enjoy NH’s primary season. Now I just enjoy it when it’s done and the politicos leave.
Patrap on January 8, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Do Fed Up and Drum have accounts at DU and KOS?
infidel on January 8, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Wow. They’re grinding gears and going pedal-to-the-metal with damage control at the Ron Paul Forums.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=2ab05c064b8c944aeee84853ea2cbfec&f=29
They are all in such denial using the same excuse as RP himself. They’re screaming it’s all a lie and has been “disproved”, yet not one link to any disproval or otherwise. They’re also really laying into people who appear to be supporters who are now questioning Ron Paul, even attacking them. They’re eating their own!
SilverStar830 on January 8, 2008 at 5:21 PM
I’ve never visited those sites…what’s your point?
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:21 PM
Boy, Professor Blather is going to be upset. The Ron Paul blimp turned out to be the Hindenburg!
conservnut on January 8, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Um, where did you conjure this agitprop from?
And, FYI, in the future (in case you don’t know) the word “hegemonic” or any of its variants kind of give up the game that it’s a piece of agitprop.
Lehosh on January 8, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Ok, you’re obviously a troll. I have my problems with Romney, being a communist isn’t one of them.
Was Eisenhower a communist too?
Socialism is a system of government wherein the government owns and operates the means of production. In Marxist theory it is the point in between capitalism and communism, communism being a system of government wherein the people as a whole own and operate the means of production.
No Republican candidate plans to own and operate the means of production.
Keljeck on January 8, 2008 at 5:22 PM
They like propaganda over there.
infidel on January 8, 2008 at 5:24 PM
What? You think I make this stuff up?
http://www.brookings.edu/speeches/2005/0519asia_brainard.aspx
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:25 PM
I knew AP would give us a really good RP thread to allow us to separate the sheep from the goats here.
conservnut on January 8, 2008 at 5:26 PM
What did I say that alludes to you calling it “propoganda.” I wasn’t discussing the number of people killed in Iraq that Drum was yet you included me in your comment.
Either retract it or point out where I used propogranda.
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Ah, the Brookings Institute! How very impartial… I’d like to introduce to you a few more completely impartial think tanks, like the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute.
Lehosh on January 8, 2008 at 5:28 PM
The spin from Paulites is amazing.
And I’d REALLY like to see some support for that accusation that Romney’s goal is Communism.
That’s a rather–stunning belief. The guy who made 200 million dollars for himself wants to impose a system where all of that is taken away and given to others.
Yeppers, that sounds logical.
Vanceone on January 8, 2008 at 5:30 PM
the real question is whether the Internets will survive the Paul implosion
jp on January 8, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Pay no attention to the nazi/homophobe/bigot/racist behind the curtain!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Talon on January 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM
Yes, the American Enterprise Institute…neocons at their finest…
I’ve had discussions with former Presidential candidate Gary Bauer who runs AmericanValues.org, a Christian website. He’s so far neocon that he can’t back up his statement, “I want to kill them before they kill us.” I asked him to back up that statement with a verse from the Bible and he chose not to continue the conversation.
But the point is that you believe the U.S. dollar is fine based on GDP, since you are budding in to the conversation I’m having with Laguna…so riddle me this….why is gold breaking to new highs?
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM
infidel on January 8, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Hint: A discussion you’re having in blog comments is not private. Therefore, there’s no such thing as somebody else “budding in.”
Jim Treacher on January 8, 2008 at 5:35 PM
should we have killed the 9/11 attackers before they killed themselves? Or just wait for the destruction to occur?
a great site to cure yourself of paultardation is Robert Spencer’s site: http://www.jihadwatch.org
its not breaking new highs, adjusted for Inflation Gold was trading at around $2000 / ounce in the early 80’s, its not even halfway to that high yet. Like all commodities, the price of it fluctuates with supply/demand
jp on January 8, 2008 at 5:37 PM
1. So-called “fiat money” is an unfortunate necessity for a fast-growing economy. It brings some instability and opportunities for corruption but allows absolutely massive investment growth.
2. The “largest debtor nation” thing is meaningless for reasons others have pointed out, as well as the fact that we’re the largest economy period, so if we were all the same ratio we’d still have the largest debt.
3. We police the world because what the world does affects us and no one else is going to do it. I don’t have to like it to see that the alternative will likely be worse, but I already said that. Would I rather that everyone could live in peace and harmony and we could just be independent from everyone else’s problems? Sure. Does the world work that way? Nope.
4. Gee, wouldn’t it be nice if we could solve all our problems. Well, since we have a representative republic, we struggle along as best we can. Voting for “open borders” RP isn’t exactly going to halt illegal immigration.
5. I’d keep going, but you keep going further and further off track.
In short, other than simply asserting the world would be a better place via some magical process, you haven’t addressed my question.
I think it’s incredibly telling that you used Vietnam as your example (as I expected you would). That seems to be the “new NPR meme.” We did lose an ally, South Vietnam, when we abandoned them to be murdered and driven out. I don’t object to trading with former enemies, but don’t forget what happened.
You mentioned “what our nation stands for.” Does your vision of America have it standing for making promises to help people and then leaving them to suffer and die?
It’s too damned late not to go to war in the middle east. We need to handle the situation that exists, i.e. play the cards we have. There’s nobody to declare a do-over here. We either have to stick with it or abandon more allies.
A lot of choices in life are between a few options, none of which are good. You still have to make a decision, and “I wish I didn’t have to make this decision” is choosing to let others choose for you.
Merovign on January 8, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Holy cow!
Full disclosure – I am a loyal Fred supporter. But I kinda feel sorry for the Ron Paul supporters. They are very excited about him.
I have no idea whether Ron Paul wrote that stuff or not, but even if someone else wrote the stuff, it went out under the name of Ron Paul and he is ultimately responsible.
Oink on January 8, 2008 at 5:37 PM
I used to be a conspiracy nut. But it literally will drive you nuts because it’s true and you can do nothing about it, sadly. That’s why I got away from the Freeman group, and others. Well, that and the Nazi tatoos.
The Tri-lateral Commission, the CFR, Bilderberg, it’s all real, folks. That being said, it’s got nothing to do with race and religion (Jews and God), but is pure Humanism at its heart. So I have a problem with people like John Gibson ridiculing Pauley for that. “The Conspiracy” is right out there in plain sight for all to see. Heck, they publish a regular magazine – Foreign Affairs. They talk blatantly about “Regionalization” and all you have to do is pull out a map of today’s world and color in the four economic groups and you can see their plan at work. And if it’s not a “Grand Conspiracy,” then why the secret meetings – that is, the meetings aren’t secret, but what’s said there is!
One question, if I was a journalist with creditintials again: “Future US President, will you reveal what is said at your latest CFR meeting – and do you put our nation, America, first before the CFR’s global schemes?”
Back to Pauley: He’s just a plain old nut-job and anyone can see that.
mksmithwriter on January 8, 2008 at 5:38 PM
hmmmm…
trying to see it through your eyes, but can’t…
Wars are paid for via inflation which is a hidden tax on the middle class who now have to pay more for their goods as their cost of living goes up.
I see this as simple economics, not propoganda…
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:38 PM
You don’t have any idea what I believe, and I don’t really give a flying crap what some has-been “Presidential Candidate” as you so generously call him, thinks.
I was merely pointing out that you were spinning out agitprop on a conservative site that you garnered from the Liberal (according to the NYT no less) Brookings group, which headlined the very article you cited with “Progressive Policy Institute”.
Why you thought that would be effective is a mystery.
Lehosh on January 8, 2008 at 5:39 PM
why did Drudge drop the story?
jp on January 8, 2008 at 5:40 PM
It scrolled off the page when he started adding links for the Iranian boat story and moved stuff making room for the results tonight.
I wouldn’t put any weight in the fact that it is off Drudge.
bnelson44 on January 8, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I’ve been reading you for the last hour or so, and I have come to the conclusion that scrolling over you is the only hope for my temper. Type less, think more.
DiannaD on January 8, 2008 at 5:43 PM
The best question Tucker asked was if anyone has ever seen Paul say anything remotely like what was in the newsletter. They hadn’t.
The racist quotes are not compatible with Paul’s message of liberty. That’s one of the reasons it’s easy for a Paul supporter to forgive him of his mistake (not paying enough attention to content that went out with his name on it). It’s easy because we find it hard to believe he ever held such views.
In interviews on questions that don’t involve race, he has repeatedly praised MLK. What racist would do that?
Last night on Leno he spoke out against religion being an issue for Romney. What bigot does that?
It’s easy to forgive the mistake Paul takes responsibility for. And the newsletters were made an issue during his ‘96 run for office, and yes, he still won.
Jimmy Liberty on January 8, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I’ve read Spencer’s books…I know all about Wahhibism and radical Islam. I do not fear such a small group of radicals. The Bible does say it is a “sin” to worry right?
I’ve spoken to Muslims and asked them the questions about the propoganda coming out of the “New” republican party. Spencer doesn’t represent the Muslim voice, but the voice that falls right into the ploy of Irving Kristol’s philosophies.
jp, gold is trading around $877 as we speak. This is an all-time closing high. I’m not saying it should be trading at its inflation adjusted price that you mention or that supply or demand don’t affect it’s price, but come on man…you’re reaching here…
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:46 PM
RIP RP & friends
you must feel all warm and toasty right now
RP will not be invited to another debate, and the MSM will use this to paint the GOP as racist and bigoted
nice going!! just what we need running against Obama!!
windansea on January 8, 2008 at 5:46 PM
point taken Jim…
Fed Up on January 8, 2008 at 5:47 PM
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