Democrats keep pushing Pakistan, leave Iran alone
posted at 3:59 pm on January 7, 2008 by Bryan
This Hillary Clinton proposal will give Ron Paul fits.
US White House hopeful Hillary Clinton late Saturday said she would propose a joint US-British team to oversee the security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal if she is elected president.
“So far as we know right now, the nuclear technology is considered secure, but there isn’t any guarantee, especially given the political turmoil going on inside Pakistan,” Clinton said during a Democratic debate here.
This is not an insane proposal. But it will, guaranteed, play up to the world’s imperialist image of us. And the left here in the US would say as much if the proposal hadn’t come from one of them. It’s similar, actually, to the reason that we were in Saudi Arabia in the first place: To protect that country from potential invasion by Saddam, not to “prop up dictators” as Paul is fond of saying. Here, we would be in Pakistan in the middle of a potential civil war to safeguard nuclear weapons. In both cases, we’re in other countries ultimately to protect ourselves — from letting Saddam control the bulk of the world’s oil supplies in the Saudi case, and against the transfer of nukes to terrorists, in Pakistan’s case. But Ronulans don’t see any of that and the left would denounce it as insane if Bush said or did what Hillary is proposing.
A better proposal would have been to try to prevent Pakistan from going nuclear in the first place, but when Hillary was co-president the Clinton adminstration believed Benazir Bhutto’s lies about her program’s peaceful purposes. The nuclear test took place on Sharif’s watch in 1998, but much of the work was accomplished during Bhutto’s stints as Pakistan’s PM. Last time the Democrats had power, the administration that included Bill Richardson and Hillary Clinton (if you buy her definition of experience, anyway) allowed that fractious state to obtain nuclear weapons. Yet fingers never get pointed at either of them over that.
Back to today’s story. The rest of the Democrats are doing their best to de-stabilize what’s left of Musharraf’s regime.
They said they were prepared to launch unilateral military strikes in the country if they detected an imminent threat or could pinpoint the location of Al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden.
“Here’s an unstable leader, Musharraf, in a country with a serious radical — violently radical element that could, under some circumstances, take over the government,” warned Edwards.
“If they did, they would have control of a nuclear weapon. They could either use it, or they could turn it over to a terrorist organization to be used against America or some of our allies.”
Obama, who won the first Democratic White House nominating contest in Iowa on Thursday, reiterated his earlier stance that he would take action in Pakistan even if Islamabad is opposed, if there is strong intelligence on Al Qaeda there.
“Back in August, I said we should work with the Pakistani government, first of all to encourage democracy in Pakistan so you’ve got a legitimate government that we’re working with, and secondly that we have to press them to do more to take on Al Qaida in their territory,” he said.
“What I said was, if they could not or would not do so, and we had actionable intelligence, then I would strike.”
Meanwhile Richardson, the fourth-runner in the race for the Democratic nomination going into Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary, called for Musharraf’s ouster.
“Here is an example of a country, a potentially failed nation-state with nuclear weapons,” said Richardson.
These people are unbelievable. The Iraq war was primarily about preventing Saddam from obtaining WMDs, and though many Democrats supported it then few of them do now, some denounce it as being based on lies, and the Democrat candidates are all united against efforts to prevent Iraq from becoming a failed state now. The tension between the US and Iran now is due in part to the latter’s efforts to obtain nuclear weapons, yet the Democrats are united in preferring useless talk to applying useful pressure. It’s easy to come to the conclusion that they just really don’t want to do anything serious about Iran at all, a replay of how they didn’t handle Pakistan. What does Richardson think is likely to happen if Musharraf actually stepped down? Has he looked at the polls lately — not of people in New Hampshire, but Karachi? There’s a provision in the Pakistani constitution, caretaker government, blah blah blah was how he answered that question last night. Why he thinks words on paper matter more than actual power in an unstable state, he has yet to explain. It’s not as though Pakistan has a couple of centuries, or even a couple of decades, of uninterrupted, peaceful and constitutional transfers of power.
Pool question: Anyone want to guess how many states go nuclear if a Democrat gets elected? I’d say four, minimum.










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Ahmadinejad enemy to Bush and the USA.
Musharraf friend to Bush and the USA.
You do the dhimicratic math.
jukin on January 7, 2008 at 4:04 PM
She needs to check with Obama Wan Kenobi….
d1carter on January 7, 2008 at 4:05 PM
It will be cake walk against these guys on foreign policy. Any candidate, with the exception of HUCK, can wipe the floor with them. They really have no understanding about the Middle East and Islam. They don’t have a leg to stand on with the economy either, what are they going to recomend, raise taxes? No one would go for it.
Mitt and Fred (Maybe Rudy)–let’s bring it on.
jawbone on January 7, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Huh?
Jaibones on January 7, 2008 at 4:09 PM
this is the point I was just trying to make in the other thread, similar to how Charlie Wilson is saying what he did would be impossible today because of partisianship.
we can’t do what is needed to do in these situations because of the anti-american smears that come from oppossing sides: “America is Imperialist” , etc. the mergence of the Moveon.org Left and the paultard right.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Don’t sell Huck short. He could read the phone book with authenticity. I’m not claiming he knows what he is talking about, but he comes off at least as sincere and knowledgeable as the big three Dems–Larry, Curly, and Moe.
Fred ’08!
flyfisher on January 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM
It’s really no surprise we were attacked on 9/11 what, with all of this talk of invading Pakistan to expand our empire. I blame it on the Jews. And Allahpundit.
/s
Yes, but Obama promises “hope”, jawbone. Foreign policy and taxes be damned. He has “hope”,man, he has “hope”!
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Mostly the red states I’d guess.
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Does Richardson think Pakistan gets its bombs from the Soviet Union?
Tzetzes on January 7, 2008 at 4:11 PM
I think Bryan’s saying how many countries (states) will go nuclear. Like Pakistan and North Korea are nuclear states. If that’s what you meant by your “Huh”, that is.
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Someone should ask her if they should handle Iran the way the Clintonistas handled N Korea….send Madaline Albright and Jimmy Carter over there to sort things out.
Sounded good then right? Maybe Michael Jordan will sign a few basketballs for Ahmadine-whatever.
wildweasel on January 7, 2008 at 4:14 PM
I left out “a Democrat,” and yeah, states=countries. You don’t usually have to explain the second one, though I’ll take a hit for originally omitting a couple of words on the first one.
Bryan on January 7, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Starting with Texas…
I still think the Left, influenced by the Chomskie’s, want these countries to get nukes to make the US less powerful and reasoning they’d never use them against us. I don’t think Clinton basically arming North Korea was an accident and dumb policy, I think they knew exactly what they were doing.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Best comment of the day. Made me smile.
As for the poll question, not enough.
resqgal on January 7, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Got it B. Was just making a joke. Jeez.
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:17 PM
That’s an interesting take. I’d not heard that before. Can you please link to someone else that shares that opinion?
My understanding was that we had wanted to seize the weapons of mass destruction already in his possession. The ones he threatened out way of life with. My bad.
DMeNTe on January 7, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Just hearing Hussein Obama say Pok-istan scares me to my core!
HaraldHardrada on January 7, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Oh, didn’t realize states=countries. I get it now. Change my answer to too many. One or more=too many.
resqgal on January 7, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Yeah, I just wasn’t sure which part Jaibones was referring to when he/she said “Huh?”. (The fact the sentence was missing a “Democrat” or about “states”.)
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:19 PM
History.
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Victor Davis Hanson had a great article on the Iraq war the other day, pointing out congress debated 23 different reasons for war, WMD being one of them. They also had extensive ties to terrorist orginizations and were financing them, offered Bin Laden asslym, etc.
the “Pre-emptive” part of the ‘sale’ was to keep Saddam from giving WMD to terrorist to then use against us. something he’d demonstrated on several occassion he was capable of doing.
also, never forget the 93 WTC bombers, atleast one of which fled to Iraq and was on Saddam’s payroll.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Another good post on Pakistan Bryan:
I really wish we didn’t care what the world thought about us. Even not being imperialist, they think we are imperialist because they are jealous of us. I wish we could set up the American Empire. We are the first country in the history of the world to be able to take over the world and not do it or try to do it. We are the least imperialist of any superpower, but I wish we would be moreso.
We need to have countries do what we say because we say so like they did after we nuked Japan. The world would be a better place if the US were feared.
ThackerAgency on January 7, 2008 at 4:22 PM
if we’d taken the Paleo route with Saddam, today he’d likely be the most powerful man in the world in many ways. controlling Kuwait and Saudi arabia and likely some other countries by now, bribing the entire world with his demands.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Letting Pakistan achieve the bomb, giving North Korea the ability to make the bomb, giving rocket technology to China, is this the change she’s been working on for 35 years?
Les in NC on January 7, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Ditto to what Ameripundit says. That is a historical fact. Like the Bay of Pigs, and other stuff that people who are, or want to be, in charge don’t seem to know about.
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Amerpundit, there’s nothing there to support the claim that we went into Saudi to defend it from Iraqi invasion. At least, not that I can see…
DMeNTe on January 7, 2008 at 4:28 PM
its right in line with the leftist intellectuals like Chomsky. Either they are idiots or very smart politicians, putting the political face to Chomsky ideals.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:28 PM
? How about:
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Your bad, indeed. Bush said that we can’t wait until the threat is imminent, i.e., we can’t wait until Saddam already had WMDs to use against us or his neighbors or to hand off to terrorists. Once he has them, it’s too late.
Bryan on January 7, 2008 at 4:29 PM
No, I think it has to do with her hair. It is looking good.
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:31 PM
No but seriously, I do think they did tell us he did have them. Remember? He’s got em, let’s get him. At least that was the headlines in the British press…
DMeNTe on January 7, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Don’t forget this guy.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/tene-j07.shtml
Remember “slam dunk”?
He was a Clinton leftover.
a capella on January 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM
The press gets many if not most things wrong. Check Bush’s actual 2002 SOTU address, word search “imminent.”
As for Saudi, are you kidding me? There was a HUGE build-up there after Saddam invaded Kuwait. It was in all the papers. Sure, they get stuff wrong, but it was an awfully hard story to miss at the time.
Bryan on January 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Hold it. Stop. Cut. Halt. Cease. Arrêt.
The BBC recently did an internal review that concluded it was biased and had anti-American leanings, IIRC.
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM
the US was also Justified to take out Saddam, without the WMD issue. He had already committed Acts of War against the United States(tried to Assassinate our POTUS, fired on our planes, violated the Cease Fire agreement, etc.).
one problem we have, is this whole issue has been spun into we only went to war because of “pre-emption” of a future war based on what Saddam may do, etc. When in fact it was that, given his history, plus the fact we were already justified and had been for years.
it really came down to, “is war worth it”? Does the cost of Containment, especially in context of post-9/11 outweigh War and the aftermath.
not getting that message and facts out, while the Left has spun and lied about it for years and thanks to our media got away with it. Has led to the sane Paul supporters out there buying into it. many of which are evangelical Christians.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM
If these people would only listen to what comes out of their mouths…….Or maybe they do. Either way when a (D) is in the White House, I`m digging a bomb shelter.
ThePrez on January 7, 2008 at 4:37 PM
So, like you guys are saying that they never said Saddam actually had weapons, only that he was working on getting them? What about Tony Blairs “15 minutes” speach? I seem to remember an imminent threat of attack, not of possiblty obtaining the where with all to attack… Anyhow, this war has really got me confused…
DMeNTe on January 7, 2008 at 4:38 PM
You are confusing Desert Storm with this Iraq war.
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:39 PM
http://husseinandterror.com
check that out sometime from the Hoover Institute.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:40 PM
…….And for the love of God, don`t tell everybody how you`ll come after the enemy or when you will come for them! Chances are, they`re listening to.
ThePrez on January 7, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Not likely, I served during the liberation of Kuwait.
DMeNTe on January 7, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Here’s what Tony said when making his case:
TONY BLAIR: The danger is that if we allow Iraq to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons they will threaten their own region, there is no way that we would be able to exclude ourselves from any regional conflict there was there as indeed we had to become involved last time they committed acts of external aggression against Kuwait.
JEREMY PAXMAN: But right now there is no danger, it’s a danger some time in the future.
TONY BLAIR: I’ve never said that Iraq was about to launch an attack on Britain but if you look at the history of Saddam Hussein there is absolutely no doubt at all that he poses a threat to his region.
If he was to use chemical, biological and nuclear weapons in the rest of his region, there is no way that Britain could stand aside from that, or indeed the rest of the world.
And that is precisely why we have had 12 years of United Nations resolutions against him.
amerpundit on January 7, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Well then, thank you. And now I don’t understand. When did anyone ever offer the reason for Desert Storm as having to do with Saddam’s nuclear capabilities?
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM
in short, Iraq under Saddam was not innocent and committed multiple Acts of War for over a decade after signing Cease Fire Agreement, each time being a case for War.
we weren’t going to war with an innoncent nation, who “may get WMD’s” and “may use against us” via terrorist. Saddam was a State Sponsor of Terror for over a decade before the war.
Augustine’s Just War theory applies, whether in the post-9/11, War on Terror, context. OR, simply the issue of Saddam vs. US post Cease-Fire Agreement.
jp on January 7, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Maybe I got into the middle of this and missed something. I thought you asked why we had bases in Saudi. But since you were probably there, I guess I misunderstood. Sorry.
JiangxiDad on January 7, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Pool question… 6. With 3 of them being accomplished secretly.
Griz on January 7, 2008 at 4:52 PM
I doubt anyone within stiking distance of Israel would make that hard of an effort to pursue a nuclear program. Iran’s pursuit isn’t over yet, but it could be after a day long tangle with IAF – just ask Syria. That doesn’t leave a whole lot of other “rogue” nations with the will or economy to pursue a nuclear program in the forseable future. I say one to none.
Simonsez on January 7, 2008 at 5:03 PM
kcd on January 7, 2008 at 5:18 PM
FLASH!! Rasmussen has Obama 42% Hillary 30% in SC! This just keeps getting better….:)
kcd on January 7, 2008 at 5:22 PM
HBO presented a special “Sand and Sorrow” which highlighted efforts of a variety of NGO advisors and reporters exposing the horrors of the Arab janjaweed. Of those exposing the details is one Harvard University professor Samantha Power.
While sipping my coffee this am (12/17), I notice that Fox News is interviewing this very same Harvard University professor.
Samantha Power happens to be a campaign spokesman for none other than B. Obama Hussein. She was championing Obama’s call to open dialogue/negotiate with terrorists.
Juxtaposing Powers reflections in the HBO presentation with this BHO political campaign effort lays bare the utter vacancy of Obama’s foreign affairs skills.
Buckle up . . .it’s gonna be a rough ride.
heroyalwhyness on January 7, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Demonrats and their perfect timing:
“In a brief confrontation in the strategically important Strait of Hormuz, five armed Iranian fast boats took aggressive actions on Sunday around three United States Navy warships in international waters, according to a Pentagon spokesman…”
Tony737 on January 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
From what I hear coming out of the mouths of the Democrat contenders now, they would have been all for an invasion of Iraq, then and now, if Saddam already had nuclear weapons at his disposal – as Musharraf does now.
Darn, we should have waited until Saddam had his finger on the button.
Stupid Bush.
fogw on January 7, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Look the US attacked Iraq because Saddam was ultimately a threat to the west and the US. He had launched 3 wars since he came to power invading his neighbors.
He had and used poison gas on Iran and the Kurds. Those are WMDS. He was making an effort to get more technology to build more.
The Gulf War and sanctions erroded his weapons. But he played a shell game with UN inspectors and we never fully knew what he had and didnt have.
The WMD arguement is what the US took to the UN. It was only one of the issues we had against Iraq. But Russia and China and France were so busy making millions off of Saddams oil (It was really those countries who used blood for oil. They didnt care who Saddam murdered as long as they sold him weapons)
The US never finished the WMD arguement at the UN so it was largely irrelevant. The UN didnt back the war so it didnt matter if Iraq had WMDs or not.
William Amos on January 7, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Answer to pool question:
States that WILL go nuclear under a Democratic White House are….Iran, South Korea, Syria…and what’s even probably more significant and ultimately threatening…Venezuela.
pecan pie on January 7, 2008 at 6:17 PM
What we might see is the nuclear domino effect. When one nation goes nuclear it pushes its neighbors to go nuclear
China has to fear a nuclear Japan. But Japan would have to have nukes to counter North Korea. If Iran gets nukes that might entice Saudi Arabia and even Turkey to get nukes. And I dont think the russians would like a nuclear Turkey.
Egypt is on the list as well as saudi arabia. The wealthy gulf states could have them as well. In fact the whole middle east could soon go nuclear.
William Amos on January 7, 2008 at 6:25 PM
BTW Israel is working on a subforce that could launch nukes as a deterent to Islamic nuclear coutries. While they could wipe Israel off the map at least the ISraelis would return the favor
William Amos on January 7, 2008 at 6:27 PM
Bryan, I think you need to up that ante..
Egypt, Jordan, the Saudis have all already delcared intentions under your current Admin. That’s 3 in the bag, there’s at least 2 or 3 more that will be filling out applications.
saus on January 7, 2008 at 8:16 PM
Does anyone here think that this isn’t their goal? Does anyone think that the Democrats plan is to limit nuclear power to states in the middle east? They would love for the region to go nuclear because in their minds the US hegemony has caused so many problems that the region going nuclear would cancel out the Evil American power as to end all conflict because of the ramifications of MAD.
Any reason to get all of our troops out of the Middle East. Just shows how ignorant these people are.
broker1 on January 7, 2008 at 8:20 PM