Open thread: You know what we need? Another debate
posted at 7:10 pm on January 6, 2008 by Allahpundit
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8 p.m. ET on Fox News. The Paulnut has been put out to pasture for this one, depriving America of yet another opportunity for the other candidates to score hawkish points at his expense. Romney vs. McCain should be the main event; Mitt will be tempted to toss a few hastily written one-liners his way just to prove that he can scrap when he has to, but he should reconsider. McCain’s stand-up performance last night seems to have bombed and may bode ill for Tuesday given his surprisingly dwindling lead.
Last night’s debate thread is the biggest we’ve ever had on HA (even bigger than the defeat of the amnesty bill last summer, if you can believe it) so continue to sound off below — but try not to break the site. While you wait, enjoy this helpful NYT scorecard comparing the world’s richest nanny to the various candidates on both sides. Verdict: “If you want to place him in the spectrum of American politics, he’s a liberal Democrat on all the major litmus test issues, and he’s a liberal Democrat on taxing and spending. I don’t see the product differentiation, except for the $4 billion bank account and the aura of the philosopher-king.”
Watch this, too. The Green Mountain Politics concludes, on the basis of what evidence I surely don’t know, that the malfeasors are Romney staffers. Given the fact that there are two cameramen taping them while they perform, isn’t the much sounder assumption that it’s a false flag operation? Click the image to watch.
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What a difference in voters. NH’s not afraid to say “we’re not electing a preacher”.
Mitt looks good with NH-folks.
Entelechy on January 6, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Remember – Southerners HATE Northeasterners
The SC focus group would have crucified Mitt/Giuliani/McCain
LordMaximus on January 6, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Well, it was never going to happen for him NH. SC is all that matters.
A big bump (and win) for Romney could give him some serious momentum going into SC though, and that could be tough for anyone to counter.
TexasDan on January 6, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Don’t count Fred out just yet… The reason for Romney? A grasp of issues and these folks don’t wear their spirituality on their sleeves.
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:39 PM
The focus group liked Mitt. And their reason? “Presence”. “Looks good on TV”.
Apparently they thought it was a Ms. America pageant.
Hollowpoint on January 6, 2008 at 9:40 PM
He didn’t mention the word healthcare enough. I disagree vehemently with Romney on heathcare.
Connie on January 6, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Those people are dyed in the wool yankees.
They look at southerners differently. Than us Texans.
TheSitRep on January 6, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Boy you can sure say that again…Fred totally dominated the first 2/3rds of the debate…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Guys its New Hampshire, its Mitt country. Fred was never going to poll well there. That debate was for SC not NH as far as Fred is concerned.
broker1 on January 6, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Wallace gave him about half the time as everyone else (except maybe Rudy).
flipflop on January 6, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Something tells me this group has been effected by whatever the paulettes outside are smokin.
- The Cat
MirCat on January 6, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Holy shit…they are crucifying Huckabee! YES!
SouthernGent on January 6, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Keep watching…he’s going to be raptured any time now.
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Another reason why the primary/caucus schedule needs to be changed so we don’t have foolish RINOs dictating the conservative movement
LordMaximus on January 6, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Winners in order:
Mitt – he had to do better than last night and he did
McCain – didn’t do too poorly but needed to stomp Mitt and didn’t
Fred – was there
Rudy – did OK but had his weak moments
Huck – did poorly
bnelson44 on January 6, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Fred Barnes uncommitted? hah
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:42 PM
CrimsonFisted you still here?
Spirit of 1776 on January 6, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Mitt talks like a corperate exec. which, I guess, plays well in NH. To me it makes him sound like a snakeoil salesman. Have to admit though, while I did like the points Fred made, it wasn’t his best debate. SC will be a different story, it’ll be as close to home turf as he has been so far.
P. James Moriarty on January 6, 2008 at 9:43 PM
These are NH folks, they don’t get Fred and he don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell with this primary.
He did fairly well in the debate but I felt that he missed several opportunities.
In the closing statements he should have passionatly stated that he would shut down the border, whatever that takes, including troops. And would shut off funding to all santuary cities. If he would say that. His numbers would go up dramatically overnight!
conservnut on January 6, 2008 at 9:43 PM
I’m thinking about starting a new political party- conservative, and working to pass a Constitutional amendment mandating that stupid people can’t vote. Getting it pass the Dems might be a challenge though.
Hollowpoint on January 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Geraghty says…
FreD! is the WINNER tonight….nice
LordMaximus on January 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
FOX news support for McCain makes me sick!
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Barnes and Kondracke are clearly OPEN BORDERS ZEALOTS.
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Very true. But I think Mitt did do well. I just wish Fred had been given more time. The first 10-15 minutes was the Mitt and John show.
flipflop on January 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Yep, he was shut out for the most part.
conservnut on January 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM
I think this debate hurt John McCain more than it helped. I think Fred may have got just a little bump. And of course Mike Huckabee was crucified, with his own cross. Giuliani probably just kept his ground.
TheSitRep on January 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Mitt talks like a corperate exec. which, I guess, plays well in NH. To me it makes him sound like a snakeoil salesman. Have to admit though, while I did like the points Fred made, it wasn’t his best debate. SC will be a different story, it’ll be as close to home turf as he has been so far.
P. James Moriarty on January 6, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Naw! The Huckster is the snakeoil salesman here.
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Yup. What’s up?
CrimsonFisted on January 6, 2008 at 9:46 PM
SECOND LOOK AT OPEN BORDERS ZEALOTS!
Kidding.
John_Locke on January 6, 2008 at 9:46 PM
If only we could have a clone of Fred with Mitt’s speaking ability and hair, we’d have a perfect nominee.
Hollowpoint on January 6, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Fred Barnes is cranky.
Was it you that I was going to catch up with after last nights debate? On BPirates?
Spirit of 1776 on January 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM
You’re cherry picking. You ignored the entire first part where they explained their reasons for liking Mitt.
csdeven on January 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Good to see NH voters are so tolerant of other voters who have religious conviction.
The big loser tonight – the focus group.
fourstringfuror on January 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM
You got my vote, where do I sing up…???
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Kondracke is talking out of his ass.
SouthernGent on January 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Kondracke say they all did well. Spin spin spin Mort, your boys are losers!!!!
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Boring debate. I’m out.
Hollowpoint on January 6, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Good stuff. Fred is always level with the American people.
joewm315 on January 6, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Speaking as a transplanted New Englander (I’m a Virginia southern gentleman, now), there most definitely is a bias against southerners up there. It’s not imagined.
flipflop on January 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Been fun folks, see ya tomorrow. (if I can see tomorrow)
P. James Moriarty on January 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
I’ll send you my address.
joewm315 on January 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Yes. I wanted to hear what you had to say, yes.
CrimsonFisted on January 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Romney is off the charts!
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Oh and for god’s sake somebody put allahpundit in the hamster wheel and power HA up so it doesnt take ten minutes just to refresh each post…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Let’s go to America. I know a guy who will hire me to mow the lawn of the Massachusetts governor himself! Can’t beat that!
Connie on January 6, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Well good time guys! and gals.
Up to 850 comments. Good showing again tonight.
Good night all!
conservnut on January 6, 2008 at 9:52 PM
I didn’t think of that. You are exactly right. Thanks for pointing that out.
csdeven on January 6, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Southerners are nuttin but bumpkins! Unfortunately that’s how many non Southerners think
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 9:52 PM
God almighty, please don’t let the retards in NH decide who the next president will be…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Dude. That lady belongs to no one. She is her own, and she is amazing.
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 9:53 PM
I gots a license to drive a wheelbarrow…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Geraghty:
Scoring Sunday’s GOP Debate
Winner: Arthur Branch. Okay, I know he goes by the stage name, “Fred Thompson,” but don’t tell me that just as “Law and Order” comes back to the airwaves with new episodes, we just happen to see a deep rumbling baritone from a big guy sitting behind a desk, using a combination of homespun aphorisms and legal arguments to put some wet-behind-the-ears young feller in his place.
I have to go back and check the transcript, but it appears that he just took Huckabee to school on the legal rules regarding captured al-Qaeda at Guanatanamo Bay.
Over in the Corner, Rich described him as “the cranky conservative one-man truth squad,” and that’s a role that fits him. He doesn’t overpromise, he doesn’t seem too much like an overeager car salesman. Whether that will sell in New Hampshire is another question…
The focus group on Fox hates him. Ah, what do they know?
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/
bnelson44 on January 6, 2008 at 9:54 PM
I am doing a lot of underage drinking tomorrow night if McCain gets his lousy bottom kicked around by Romney and Co.
Let’s stop talking about his service in Vietnam, and all he went through. He did a great deed for his nation, end of story.
Now he is a vindictive man who is sneery and aggressive. He is a poser on ending the leeching of illegal immigration, and has gotten naively uncomfortable in N.H, and it showed at last night’s debate.
I hope he gets his comeuppance.
Like I said, lots of celebratory underage drinking if he does.
blatantblue on January 6, 2008 at 9:55 PM
About time you figured that out… ;P
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:55 PM
You Fred supporters out there, don’t forget to donate to Fred and ask your friends to at: http://www.fred08.com
bnelson44 on January 6, 2008 at 9:56 PM
oh, in a related subject, my professor in political science, Helmut Norpoth has been using a formula to predict elections. with his formulation, he has correctly retroactively predicted every election since 1912, with the exception for 1920. 1920 had a special variable in it, which at this point im not 100 sure of it so im not gonna state it incorrectly.
anyway, with his formula, he has found that if Romney wins NH, he can beat all the Democrats.
lil good news there.
blatantblue on January 6, 2008 at 9:57 PM
That is exactly what Rudy thinks.
AprilOrit on January 6, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Words of a beta male.
MadisonConservative on January 6, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Well, now ALL my problems are solved. Thank you.
(slits wrists)
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 9:58 PM
I have total debate fatigue, but I would like to weigh in.
As a Frehead, I am concerned about a few moves in the last few days. Especially concerning dealings with the MSM as a whole. No matter how WE feel about the MSM, I will argue that in such a hotly contested election, we DO need the MSM.
The general public relies on them, and the general public, for the most part does get their info from them. Sad, but true.
One thing I’ll say for certain, we need to get McShamnesty out of the running. He is just not viable.
We better think hard, and we better think long because we’re about to be taking a SECOND LOOK AT THE CULT OF OBAMA and that, friends, is going to be a challenge to beat.
COME ON FRED!
Maybe he has a bigger strategy. I will wait it out, and hopefully SC will be the turning point we thought it would.
NickTx on January 6, 2008 at 9:59 PM
I hope you get Secretary of Transportation or something in the Thompson administration. Thanks for the work you do, on behalf of all Fredheads.
joewm315 on January 6, 2008 at 9:59 PM
Theories that explain what has already happened are always 100 percent accurate, its the theories that explain what has yet to happen that are not 100 percent accurate…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 9:59 PM
lol, WHO would you prefer macaca? i mean wccawa.
http://www.countryrisk.com/editorials/archives/cat_united_states.html
follow up to my last post
blatantblue on January 6, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Beta male?
Hmmm…..
I think not. Just a bit-smarter-than-average alpha male. But JUST IN CASE: “Is that ok, dear?”
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Oh no. The NH voters are dopes because they didn’t go for Fred.
csdeven on January 6, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Shameless plug for what I thought was a solid performance in the debate: don’t forget to donate to Fred!
John_Locke on January 6, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Where was Ron Paul?
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Whistles softly to self…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I was just going to say it’s a stretch and it’s an imperfect match, so I think it’s better left to people like us to bat it around.
BPirates tried to extort money from us. Jihadists don’t – they want to kill us. BP didn’t attack us on our soil. Jihadists did. The issue was one over our economics – the trade issue. If we wanted to trade in ‘their waters’, we had to pay. That’s the way a lot of nations went. Some people like to say, yeah but they kidnapped our sailors and we had to go to war. True, but Britain impressed many more of our sailors and we avoided war with them (wisely) though Jefferson’s policies ended up culminating in Wo1812. The common theme is the Koran. But the real issue was trade. That’s why I say it’s a stretch. It doesn’t fit hand/glove so it’s not a good analogy to take to the public as an argument in my view.
I’m not trying to say you have to agree with me, I am just trying to give you an honest answer to the question you posed yesterday.
Spirit of 1776 on January 6, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I’m about to have a damn heart attack laughing at some of the comments on this thread. lol. Lord help me.
All I ask is, God, please put our country in the right hands that can keep it safe, prosperous and free for its people.
johnnyU on January 6, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Way out in left field, like always…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 10:03 PM
You know what the bit-smarter-than-average alpha male is? A beta male with a good comeback.
MadisonConservative on January 6, 2008 at 10:03 PM
conservnut on January 6, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Cheers, night!
Spirit of 1776 on January 6, 2008 at 10:03 PM
I had a macaca moment and didn’t even know it?
Now THAT’S not fair!
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Giuliani is overmatched. Quite a difference from a Mayor to Governor to President? Can you say Icarus?
DfDeportation on January 6, 2008 at 10:04 PM
And thanks. I am always learning. I appreciate the analysis. :)
CrimsonFisted on January 6, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Wow “The Boss” is getting a little snarky over at her debate blog:
We love ya Michelle but no, we dont get upset that the EvIl MeDiA says he is lazy and has no fire in his belly. Its just that that is ALL that they talk about.
And how about the fact that this CITIZEN said he liked his policies? So we are ignoring great policies and looking for “fire in the belly? If the great citizens of this country want someone to go on national tv every day and do jumping jacks, knock yourselves out. Personally? I dont care if Fred is in a coma, if his policies get enforced, hes my man.
broker1 on January 6, 2008 at 10:05 PM
You, sir, are wise beyond your years.
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 10:05 PM
*Cough-beta male-cough*….
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 10:05 PM
You, sir, are extraordinarily perceptive.
MadisonConservative on January 6, 2008 at 10:06 PM
But going to bed now, and thanks Spirit. I will be re-reading.
CrimsonFisted on January 6, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Fred Thompson is definitely NOT a beta male.
John_Locke on January 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Well good debate:
McCain one liner:”Quack on Innaugiration Day”
Agent of change.
“More scares than Frankenstein”
Huckerbee:”I made government work”
service fee,taxes–same thing.
Fred:King of the one liners.
“I’ve never lost an election”
“five major tax cuts”
“better days ahead”
Rudy:”I’ve made mistakes”
Mitt:”I love my children and grandchildren”
canopfor on January 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM
C’mon. the “MM-HA” Axis of Evil has had it out for Fred from the get go.
The thing is, I just don’t know why. I just don’t get it.
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 10:08 PM
lol i had to. just flashed in my mind when i saw wccawa
night everybody, and GO ROMNEY OR THOMPSON OR GIULIANI! woooooo
or
Ron Paul/Michael Badnarik ‘08! jkjkjk
blatantblue on January 6, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Because he doesn’t have Romney’s hair…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 10:10 PM
No it’s not just me! I even stayed at the office with the highspeed connection. Had to restart the browser several times and reboot once.
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Meant, SO it’s not just me
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Joewm315 conspiracy theory of the day: Fred Thompson’s miniscule amount of talk-time was punishment for critcizing Fox News’ coverage of his campaign.
joewm315 on January 6, 2008 at 10:11 PM
MadisonConservative:
Thank-you so much for the link
otherwise I’s be like the Bismark,
rudderless going nowhere,again
Thank you.
canopfor on January 6, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Hmmm. Plausible. Very plausible!
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Quite welcome to it. I’d put it on my blog, but I don’t want any extra exposure than necessary in case it were to get shut down. However, being that I, and obviously others like you, recognize that television isn’t worth a damned cent these days, I’ll try to remember to post it whenever any debate or significant event is coming up.
MadisonConservative on January 6, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Heh eh heh ya think…..
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 10:18 PM
Taking a ride in his blimp.
Talon on January 6, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Beg your pardon then – csdeven is the strongest man on HA.
Please, no, no, no – the year is almost unbearable with you here (hat to look up unbearable, so as not to confuse with bare – poligot affliction).
Entelechy on January 6, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Where is the dragon-lady on such a night?
Entelechy on January 6, 2008 at 10:23 PM
I gave my $50 to Mitt today.
davenp35 on January 6, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Blech – s/b polyglot…
Entelechy on January 6, 2008 at 10:24 PM
good question…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Why? He’s got lots of money.
Entelechy on January 6, 2008 at 10:25 PM
He did go through an awful lot for sure but his losing an aircraft and spending 6 years in an NVA prison camp didn’t do a dang thing for me.
MB4 on January 6, 2008 at 10:26 PM
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