Blogging the Qur’an: Sura 10, “Jonah”
posted at 8:00 am on January 6, 2008 by Robert Spencer
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Surah 10, “Jonah,” dates from late in the Meccan period, the first part of Muhammad’s prophetic career. Its name comes from v. 98, where the prophet Jonah is mentioned in passing. After another set of three mysterious letters, the chapter begins by declaring, “These are the ayats [signs] of the Book of Wisdom” (v. 1). “This indicates,” says Ibn Kathir, “that these are verses of the Qur’an, in which the wisdom of judgment is clear.”
Verses 2-36 sum up that “wisdom of judgment” via a series of assertions: Allah made all things (vv. 5-6); the idols that the unbelievers worship are worthless (v. 18); some people are ungrateful to Allah (v. 12); Allah destroyed earlier generations of unbelievers (v. 13); the unbelievers will burn in hell (vv. 8, 27); and the believers will enjoy the gardens of Paradise (vv. 9, 26).
The skins of the blessed will be white, and that of the damned black (vv. 26-27). Ibn Kathir quotes a hadith to this effect: “When the people of Paradise enter Paradise,” we’re told, “a caller will say: ‘O people of Paradise, Allah has promised you something that He wishes to fulfill.’” Then the blessed will answer: “What is it? Has He not made our Scale heavy?” – that is, has he not judged that our good deeds outweigh our bad ones? “Has He not made our faces white and delivered us from Fire?” For “no blackness or darkness will be on their faces during the different events of the Day of Judgment. But the faces of the rebellious disbelievers will be stained with dust and darkness.” Though some have tried to make this into a racial statement, there is nothing in the mainstream Muslim Qur’an commentaries to support this; it is clearly a moral judgment, not a racial one.
Verses 37-41 turn to the excellence of the Qur’an, and how Muhammad should respond to those who challenge it. Allah tells Muhammad that the Qur’an could only have been produced by Allah, and that it confirms the earlier revelations, and contains “a fuller explanation of the Book — wherein there is no doubt — from the Lord of the worlds.” Ibn Kathir expatiates on this:
The Qur’an has a miraculous nature that cannot be imitated. No one can produce anything similar to the Qur’an, nor ten Surahs or even one Surah like it. The eloquence, clarity, precision and grace of the Qur’an cannot be but from Allah. The great and abundant principles and meanings within the Qur’an — which are of great benefit in this world and for the Hereafter — cannot be but from Allah. There is nothing like His High Self and Attributes or like His sayings and actions. Therefore His Words are not like the words of His creatures.
It confirms earlier books, he explains, “and is a witness to them. It shows the changes, perversions and corruption that have taken place within these Books” – reflecting the mainstream Islamic belief that the Jewish and Christian Scriptures of today are merely corrupted versions of the original messages of the Muslim prophets Moses and Jesus. The Qur’an corrects these corruptions, and no one can produce a chapter like it (v. 38).
Why issue a challenge like this? Because, turning once again to Ibn Kathir, “eloquence was a part of the nature and character of the Arabs. Arabic poetry including Al-Mu`allaqat — the oldest complete collection of the most eloquent ancient Arabic poems — was considered to be the best in the literary arts. However Allah sent down to them something whose style none were familiar with, and no one is equal in stature to imitate. So those who believed among them, believed because of what they knew and felt in the Book, including its beauty, elegance, benefit, and fluency. They became the most knowledgeable of the Qur’an and its best in adhering to it.” This is one of the principal reasons why traditional Islamic theology says that the Qur’an cannot be translated: losing the music of the Arabic language, it loses part of its essence.
Here, in any case, are a number of attempts to take up the Qur’anic challenge.
Verses 42-70 repeat many of the same themes, continuing to criticize for failing to heed the messengers from Allah, which have been sent to every nation (v. 47). Allah’s eternal punishments should move the sinners to repent (vv. 50-54), for he gives life and takes it, and to him all shall return (v. 56). All creatures belong to Allah, and the idolaters invent lies against Allah (v. 66). The unbelievers even dare to claim that Allah has a son, when actually he is self-sufficient. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn explains: “They, that is, the Jews and the Christians, and those who claim that the angels are the daughters of God, say, ‘God has taken [to Him] a son.’” But in fact, “He is Independent, [without need] of anyone, for only he who has need of a child would desire [to have] one. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, as possessions, creatures and servants.”
Then verses 71-93 tell the stories of Noah (vv. 71-74) and Moses (vv. 75-93), without significant variation from the versions in sura 7. Both Noah and Moses are cast in roles much like Muhammad’s: prophets whose messages go unheeded by their insolent and spiteful hearers, who are duly punished. Moses actually prays here that Allah not have mercy on Pharaoh: “Deface, our Lord, the features of their wealth, and send hardness to their hearts, so they will not believe until they see the grievous penalty” (v. 88). Allah accepts their prayer (v. 89), although when Pharaoh repents (v. 90), Allah saves him (v. 92). He “settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place,” but “they fell into schisms” (v. 93). According to a hadith, “the Jews separated into seventy-one sects, and the Christians separated into seventy-two sects, and this Ummah [the Muslim community] will separate into seventy-three sects, one of which is in Paradise, seventy-two in the Fire.”
The sura concludes with reassurance for Muhammad and affirmations of Allah’s sovereignty, in verses 94-109. Allah tells Muhammad to “ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee” if he doubts the revelations he has been receiving (v. 94). The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that this means that Muhammad should “question those who read the Scripture, the Torah, before you, for it is confirmed [therein] with them and they can inform you of its truth.” This assumes, of course, that uncorrupted versions of the Jewish (and Christian) Scriptures were available in Muhammad’s day – a contention that creates immense difficulties for the Islamic claim that they were corrupted at all, since copies exist from that era, and they are not different from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures as they exist today.
But ultimately, it is up to Allah who believes and who doesn’t (vv. 99-100). Why he would create human beings only to torture them in eternal fire is left unexplained.
Next week: Sura 11, “Hud,” about the Department of Housing and Urban Development – no, scratch that, it’s actually named for the prophet Hud, and warns those who may be overly confident due to Allah’s delay in punishment.
(Here you can find links to all the earlier “Blogging the Qur’an” segments. Here is a good Arabic/English Qur’an, here are two popular Muslim translations, those of Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, along with a third by M. H. Shakir. Here is another popular translation, that of Muhammad Asad. And here is an omnibus of ten Qur’an translations.)
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This notion, or philosophy, is what allows, justifies, and excuses terrorism and the targeting and murder of civilians (people we consider “innocent”).
Under Islam, only God is allowed to decide who is worthy and who isn’t. That absolves the killer from blame, or any real decision making at all when he chooses his/her targets. If a Muslim suicide killer kills another Muslim, then God will reward that victim with Paradise if the dead Muslim is truly worthy. Even those most pious of Muslims on this Earth could still be judged harshly by God so the killer has no need to wonder if one of his targets was unjustly targeted because God will take care of them.
When it comes to obvious targets, like Jews, the killer does not have to care who any of his victims may be, because again only God can decide. Women, little kids, bus boys at Windows-On-The-World. God will sort it all out. So their victims are not their problem.
Jaynie59 on January 6, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Thanks, Robert.
Spirit of 1776 on January 6, 2008 at 11:12 AM
Robert, is the Qur’an still considered to be such an eloquent, clear and precise text that it could only come from Allah? Did people marvel it its perfection? Do they still? Did the eloquence of the Qur’an account for any sizable portion of converts?
Forgive me for not remembering exactly, but, iirc, Muhammad did not write the text right? So did he dictate it word by word to a scribe?
TheBigOldDog on January 6, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Yep. Ooops. Can’t square that circle.
Perhaps you covered it in your initial post and I’ve simply forgotten, but it might be instructive, Robert, if you included here the genesis of the actual recording of the Quran–what with the burning of all but the version kept under his daughter’s bed–and the incidences recorded in the hadiths of people remembering ayat which were either altered or omitted in the version that went forward.
TexasDan on January 6, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Regardless of who fails to live up the the agreement, Man or God, the same question could be asked of Christian dogma as well.
I can find no man who has ever lived that deserves eternal torment in Hell. No one.
Asher on January 6, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Apples and oranges Asher.
Christianity give the soul a choice, it can be evil or righteous. It can take itself to heaven or hell.
In Islam, the soul is never truly sure what will please Allah.
BL@KBIRD on January 6, 2008 at 1:35 PM
At the risk of starting a 1000 comment snowball: Have you met one that actually deserved eternal paradise?
The reason Robert’s comment on Islam does not apply to Christianity as well is that “salvation” in Islam is arbitrary. Specifically, even if your “pahala” are greater than your evil deeds, Allah can summarily decide to deny you entry, and vice versa. Christian theology makes it clear that God has gone to extraordinary lengths to open the door to salvation, and will turn away none who come to him.
It is the disconnected, seemingly disinterested and arbitrary way in which the Allah of Islam either receives or condemns at judgement that raises the question of why he bothered to create in the first place. The Bible is not silent on God’s motives in creating, saving, judging and even condemning–the Quran is.
TexasDan on January 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM
The Big Old Dog:
Yes to all questions.
He would recite it and others would memorize it. Different people had different portions memorized.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Also, there is some evidence that he worked with scribes, because one of them, according to Islamic tradition, left him and renounced Islam after working with Muhammad as a scribe on the Qur’an for a time.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 3:15 PM
Texas Dan:
Dan, I haven’t. Perhaps at the end of this whole thing. Things should quicken considerably now that we are past the first nine suras.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Asher,
Regardless of who fails to live up the the agreement, Man or God, the same question could be asked of Christian dogma as well.
Actually, no. All Christian sects make hell contingent upon one’s deeds in some way, except for strict Calvinists, who are the only ones aside from Muslims who actually teach that God creates people only to damn them. Whether or not you think hell could conceivably be justified based on one’s choices, that is a very different thing from arbitrarily sending someone to hell based on nothing he has done at all.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 3:19 PM
Texas Dan:
I myself wouldn’t mind a 1000 comment snowball. Perhaps this is a good time to ask:
1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?
2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?
3. If your answer to #1 is no, why not?
4. What do you think I should change about it, short of dropping the whole project (which I do not intend to do as long as Michelle will have me here), that would make it more useful to you?
Thanks for any input.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 3:21 PM
That last comment, obviously, is for everyone, not just the esteemed Texas Dan.
Thanks again for any input. I realize this isn’t standard breezy Hot Air fare, and so let me know what I can improve about it.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 3:22 PM
A point of contention here: In the Christian belief a person removes himself from God, not the other way around. If you walk away from me, do you then turn and lament that I sent you away?
Sin is a wall between you and God. Holy means ’separate’ and God is wholly separate from Sin. You sin cannot exist with God, it is like asking a fish to come live with you on land.
Forgiveness for sin is through Christ who although blameless spent 3 days *without God* (otherwise known as Hell) to attone for our sins.
God doesn’t create a land of torture and mayhem, that place is simply where ever He does not dwell. Jesus parable about the rich man in Hell after death mentions this ’space’ between God and sin.
DavidM on January 6, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Robert,
Yes, I read it every week.
Yes. I’ve already read the Quran but not with tafsir, so your posts are very helpful.
This is just my opinion, but I think the main reason people might skip the “blogging the Qur’an” series is because, quite frankly, the Qur’an is unpleasant to read (at least for me), and some people think, “I already know that book is bad news, I don’t need to know all the excruciating details.” Just my opinion.
I think it’s fine the way it is, so I can’t help you on this. Maybe with the less violent suras you could shorten your entries a bit.
Tasty Beverage on January 6, 2008 at 4:48 PM
1. Hell Yes!
2. Hell Yes x 2! I look forward to reading this post every sunday.
3. N/A
4. Nothing to add right now.
I think of these posts as a good primer to something I know little about from an honest broke on the topic. I don’t post often because the entries a pretty concise and clear. I suspect I’m part of a much larger “silent” multitude.
meandchi on January 6, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Thanks for your responses.
I read every week and fine the posts very informative. I suspect there are many readers who appreciate your writing but do not find anything in particular to comment on. For those to whom this is new information, I imagine they find that are only so many times that one can comment along the “wow–that’s crazy stuff” line.
You may not get as many looks as a humping robot post, but five bucks says you have a dedicated group who is following each week, and finding it extremely informative.
TexasDan on January 6, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Actually, I find the posts informative.
TexasDan on January 6, 2008 at 5:16 PM
I read it, and I think it’s helpful. I’ve studied various aspects of the Islam word, but not the Koran, so it’s very helpful to fill out the picture to me.
Much like AP’s terrorism posts, though, I don’t know what to comment on though. I just take in the information.
Spirit of 1776 on January 6, 2008 at 5:21 PM
1. Yes
2. Yes. I plan to set aside a block of time to read all of it back to back at once.
Robert, I read these but rarely comment because it’s scholarly work. I am inclined to frivolous comments, rash judgments, and silly questions. Caught your Hud joke! Seriously though, I indulge myself in the other threads, but revere your work too much to bring that in here.
Clicking on one of these links is like dropping into another universe. It’s disturbing to read about the contents of the Qur’an, which are so alien and contrary to all of my values, and yet I know it must be done, in order to face the times we live in.
It would be easier –for me– to read with less inline punctuation. I wonder if the links, instead of being (inline) could be grouped at the bottom, in the form of footnotes. It would be less choppy that way.
.
.
And, for Goodness Sake, I implore you not to drop us.
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 5:28 PM
This Sura does indeed establish, as is further confirmed in the ahadith, that Islam accepts the idea of predestination. This is a concept that bedevils the religious philosophy of just about every religion and the philosophers fight to explain how the creator could know the outcome of every event and still convince the believers that they have free will. After all, if the godhead did not know the future then he would not be omnicient and if he does, free will is an illusion.
I find this blog extremely interesting so I might suggest some points that could be added, perhaps in a followup.
1. The principle of abrogation is an important tool to help explain away some of the internal contradictions of the Qur’an and in large part its application depends on knowing the chronological order of the “revelation.” What is the best that can be done with respect to a chronologically ordered Qur’an. I know that an absolute order is impossible but one can surely do better than the topological order Mecca precedes Medina.
2. What secular historical references to Islam exist for the period from 610 to Ishaq’s “history,” For example, were there important people from the Byzantine empire who actually met Muhammad and wrote about their encounter?
Annar on January 6, 2008 at 5:33 PM
I read this series every week. I also read all three translations of the Quran that you cover each week – although I do usually skip the additional commentary you link to unless I find something particularly intriguing. I don’t ask as many questions as I used to, since most of my questions early on were regarding the Quran’s paralells with Gnostic Christianity. I am not a Christian, so I don’t find the Quran’s views towards the person of Jesus to be particularly offensive.
I have only one suggestion – have you considered doing the Quran reading along with your commentary as an audible podcast? That would be great for us people on the go, and would surely reach a wider audience via itunes.
Other than that, I love this series. Keep up the great work..!!
HeIsSailing on January 6, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Yes, I am out here and happy you are giving your time to give us all basically a free book, rather Encyclopedia on Islam, and I thank you very much.
.
You cover things pretty thoroughly but I do have comments and questions on occasion but have trouble getting to the comment window?
.
What happens is I can log on into any other thread and not be able to comment on yours. Instead of the comment window, it will have “You must be logged on to comment”. Then when I click to log on, it takes me to my preferences page. I have to then log out and log on inside your thread, sometimes it works and sometimes I get a 404 error. I go back and forth from your post to another post logging on and logging out and sometimes I am never able to get on your post, as of this morning. It gets very frustrating and I have just given up on trying to comment on your posts, but I do appreciate your knowledge. I do not know the difference between your post and a Hot Air post but something must be different. Usually I just don’t comment. Perhaps I’m not the only one with this problem?
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 5:37 PM
RushBaby
Thanks. Not sure about the footnotes. I’ll ask Bryan. You mean for all the references to Qur’an verses, etc.? I have put them in the text and made them clickable so that people can see immediately what the verse actually says, so as to follow along better as well as to verify the accuracy of my paraphrase.
I certainly won’t drop you. My plan is to finish this thing in a year or so, see if someone will publish it, and write a book (”The Infidel’s Guide to the Koran”), which has already been accepted by a publisher, that will be loosely based on these posts but will be organized thematically and be directed toward explaining what the Qur’an says about this and that, and what it doesn’t say, rather than going through it passage-by-passage.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 5:38 PM
abinitioadinfinitum:
I myself have this problem. Usually if sign in and then go back to the home page, and then open the Blogging the Q page and hit Reload, I can get in that way. I have no idea why this happens, or what to do about it. My apologies.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Robert,
Please forgive my non-comments on your posts.
Their thought provoking nature keeps me thinking for days and eager to read the next installment
This series is one of the greatest essays on Islam I have ever perused. I was a student Eastern Religion under John Noss and Robert Smith.
Beto Ochoa on January 6, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Aside from you commenting more in the comment section I can think of little you could do that would enrich what you are providing us with now. Please don’t allow the lack of comments on your posts to allow you to think we are not taking considerable notice of what you are bringing us.
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Please do not stop. Sundays are kinda busy, I usually will pick it up from the archives, I know it will be there. Mr. Spencer you are a most insightfull expert and I value your contributions more than you realize.
infidel on January 6, 2008 at 5:43 PM
abinitioadinfinijoaekrorgosdj,
whenever you get that 404 error, go back to the main hotair page, click on the news story, or blogging the quran article that you want to comment on. Does the bottom still say that you must log in? If so, refresh your internet browser (F5 for us PC users). You should then see the comment window, and be good to go.
HeIsSailing on January 6, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I don’t comment much on your threads, but I do read your weekly post, Mr. Spencer. And as an earlier poster said, I learn nearly as much from the comments, as well!
Thank you for what you do.
wccawa on January 6, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Annar,
There are several such lists available, and some disagreement between them. Here are 3 such lists:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Sell/Development/p202.htm
No, not really. There is no solid evidence outside of Islamic tradition that Muhammad even existed as such. Some scholars (Luxenberg, Ibn Warraq, Jansen, etc.) contend that he was constructed, along with the Qur’an, to justify Arab conquests of the 7th century — after those conquests took place. Me, I personally think Muhammad did exist, since I find it hard to understand why elements of his life that have always embarrassed Muslims — such as his marriage to his daughter-in-law (which is sketchily referenced in Qur’an 33:37) — would have been invented. I think it is more likely that they are in Muhammad’s story simply because they really happened.
But in any case, Ibn Ishaq dates from 150 years after Muhammad’s death, and the historical reliability of any of the early Muslim material is extremely questionable.
That said, hundreds of millions of Muslims believe in the absolute historical reliability of this material, and consequently it becomes a matter of concern for all of us — given its expansionist and supremacist elements.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 5:45 PM
That’s a REALLY good idea. I consume much more through listening than through reading.
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Many thanks to all for the kind words. It is hard sometimes not to think I am doing all this in a vacuum, so I much appreciate it. But I wasn’t trolling for compliments — really, if it is too short, too long, too dull, too sensationalistic, too fat, too lean, too red, too blue, let me know.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 5:48 PM
I kind of figured that. Painstaking!
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 5:51 PM
HeIsSailing:
A fascinating study, that. My earliest studies on Islam, back in 1981, were on that topic. I wrote a term paper on the connection of Qur’an 4:157, which denies the Crucifixion, to Gnostic Gospels that likewise denied it, and postulated that the Islamic tradition picked up the idea that Judas was on the Cross rather than Jesus (which appears in some extra-Qur’anic traditions) via the Gnostic identification of Jesus’ twin as “Judas Thomas,” as Thomas the Apostle (”Doubting Thomas”) is always referred to in the Gnostic literature — in which he is also identified as Jesus’ twin. I was very proud of this work at the time! And seriously, it whetted my appetite and got me reading large sections of Sahih Muslim and other hadith collections.
I don’t know what this would involve. I have a video setup for the biweekly video blogs. I don’t think it would be a hard thing to read the thing into the recorder. Do you mean read the Q-Blog, or read the actual section of the Qur’an at hand? I don’t think I’d want to do the latter, but the former might be good.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Thank You both, the refresh trick worked this time for me to get in just now but in the past I have tried many things with no success. I am stumped on this glitch myself. Robert, as the others have said, please do not stop this series.
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 5:55 PM
I am keenly looking forward to The Infidel’s Guide to the Koran. We bought multiple copies of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) and gave them to every local politician, law enforcement official, friend and relative who we could think of.
Thanks so much, Robert.
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Robert:
If you can tell me where, other than this thread series on Hot Air, that I can get a simple, clear, authoritative and unbiased translation and analysis of the Koran (arguably the most important and relevant text on the planet at this time in history), by all means let me know and I might consider listening to somebody else.
Until that happens, your Blogging the Koran will remain, as it has always been, mandatory weekly reading for me!
[thejackal suffers delerious tremulums trying not to fill the page with exclamation marks.]
I’m better now.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for four years (1996-2000) and my interest in Islam, Arabia, the whole “conflict of civilizations,” et cetera, compels me to view, on a regular basis, the following Internet sources.
Blogging the Koran, by Robert Spencer
DanielPipes.org
MEMRI.org
If you are suffering from some notion that you are preaching to an empty choir, please remove such thoughts immediately. And I hope you don’t judge your popularity by the number of respondants to your thread. How many of us mere mortals feel qualified to take issue with your views? All we can do is gasp and write fan mail.
It is sooooooooooo refreshing to hear something that puts Edward Said in his rightful place! KEEP IT UP!
thejackal on January 6, 2008 at 5:57 PM
I say read the Q-Blog. We all know where the written material is right here on HA, so we could come in and follow the links.
Audio learning is so different than visual learning. Having both to reinforce each other would be fantastic. And we’re talking about several minutes of audio, not hours each week! Pleeeeeaaase!
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 6:00 PM
RushBaby:
Thanks very much. I’m glad to hear that. Unfortunately, it probably won’t appear until 2010. I have to write another book before that one, and the publisher doesn’t want it until after the election, which means it will probably be out in early 2009, and the IGK in 2010.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 6:02 PM
the jackal:
Thanks very much. In all seriousness, I don’t know of one. In all my books and now in this series I’ve followed J. D. Salinger’s rule: Write the book that you wish you could read, but which no one has yet written.
So if a clear guide to the Qur’an existed, I wouldn’t be writing this series or the forthcoming “Infidel’s Guide”!
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 6:04 PM
the jackal:
Pipes and MEMRI: excellent sites. If you’ll pardon the self-promotion, I invite you to check out my own site, http://www.jihadwatch.org, updated daily with news and commentary on global jihad activity.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 6:05 PM
RushBaby:
I’m game. I’ll ask Bryan what he thinks. I know he and everyone at HA is very strapped as it is.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Robert,
I’ve saved, and will continue to save, all the “Blogging the Qur’an” series for later study beyond just reading them here. Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your efforts here. Thank you.
P. James Moriarty on January 6, 2008 at 6:08 PM
doriangrey:
I do try to answer every question asked. If I missed any, it was inadvertent, and if you’d like to ask them again, I’m game.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Splendid. They probably have their reasons for not putting up a PayPal button, but if they could or would consider one, readers here would step up to help defray the cost.
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 6:10 PM
1. Absolutely! I never miss a single installment.
2. Again, absolutely. It’s immensely helpful to have a subject matter expert read between the lines.
3. N/A
4. Don’t change a thing…unless you can make it more frequent. :-)
BTW…I don’t think comment counts are an accurate indicator of reader interest. Like I said, I read this feature every week, but have only posted the occasional comment on it.
flipflop on January 6, 2008 at 6:11 PM
You are indeed a saint and a prince among men Robert, thank you for what you do…
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Ideally, I would like to listen to Quran Scriptures that you are commenting on – the Quran readings that I have found thus far on itunes are unlistenable. But since I am not investing any work in this project, that is easy for me to say.
Unlike Rushbaby, I do enjoy the long, dry academic lectures – but admit that it is probably best to keep it short and snappy..!! I guess if I were going to make a podcast of this, I would keep it short and use your commentary.
HeIsSailing on January 6, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Same here, I read it but just don’t have the qualifications to comment in any meaningful fashion. The information provided is in my honest opinion far to valuable for any trivial comment I might be able to post to be allowed to distract from it.
doriangrey on January 6, 2008 at 6:15 PM
HeIsSailing,
Is it too long and dry? Should I shorten the segments?
I wouldn’t want to read a Qur’an translation aloud. It isn’t the real thing, and while it would be fun to try, I doubt I could recite in in Arabic with proper tajweed — and even if I could, that wouldn’t be any use to you. I think there really is something to the Muslim contention that the Qur’an isn’t the Qur’an if it isn’t in Arabic, although I don’t buy the obfuscatory apologetic nonsense about how it can be only understood in Arabic, and the translations (even those made by Muslims) are inaccurate, etc. There is a rhythm to it, a music to it, that is very beguiling — but only in Arabic.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Not so fast there, Sailing! I consume hours and hours and hours of audiobooks and podcasts; very, very little of it for entertainment. I would listen to the entire Quran scriptures as well as commentary. I just don’t think it’s fair to ask Robert to take on such a time-consuming commitment. Unless he’s willing :)
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Dr. Spencer–
Am enjoying this series and like others I tend to read, absorb, and move on without commenting. I also tend to put them off until later in the week and return to them after commenting dies down, since, after all, the Koran’s been around a while.
see-dubya on January 6, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Robert Spencer waxes nostaligic:
Yes, back when you were covering sura 4, I believe we had a back and forth regarding that material in your research. I think you corrected me regarding some misinformation I had with the Gospel of Barnabas.
Speaking of podcasts, my wife and I have been toying with the idea of making podcasts of some of the Gnostic Scriptures. Bible podcasts are everywhere, but I have found none for pseudepigraphal, apocryphal and noncanonical works. They are endlessly fascinating to me.
HeIsSailing on January 6, 2008 at 6:22 PM
RushBaby:
Agreed. Like I said, I can pipedream anything so long as I have no time or effort invested in the project ;-)
HeIsSailing on January 6, 2008 at 6:24 PM
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 5:40 PM
I don’t know why Robert’s Q-blog posts have the login problem but it happened to me too. In every other thread, the URL will contain something like “archives/2008/01/06/fred-gets-ornery-with-the-media-i-owe-you-nothing/”. And if you’re not logged in, the Q-blog post is just like that when you open the window: “archives/2008/01/06/blogging-the-quran-sura-10-jonah/. But when I finally got the page to accept my login, after several tries, the URL looks like this: “archives/2008/01/06/blogging-the-qur%e2%80%99an-sura-10-%e2%80%9cjonah%e2%80%9d/”
This is the only thread on which I’ve seen this happen, don’t know why, maybe Bryan or Allah can figure it out.
Tasty Beverage on January 6, 2008 at 6:52 PM
I’ve found it extremely informative and eye opening in many, many, ways. My understanding of Islam has increased 1,000 fold at least.
Suggestions:
I wish there was an easy way to access all the lessons thus far in one place.
I’d love to hear more of your perspective on each of the Surahs and how they manifest themselves in the attitudes and behaviors of the modern day Muslim world.
TheBigOldDog on January 6, 2008 at 6:53 PM
This is probably going to get me in trouble but I’m going to say it anyway.
First of all, Hot Air is a closed registration blog. Only registered users can post comments here and I read this blog multiple times every day, every day and every night, and I cannot remember the last time I saw registration open here. Anybody feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I know by looking around the site it is still closed:
Hot Air could allow open comments on these posts only maybe? See what happens? If they already do, great. But I doubt that. They rarely have open blogs here. There was one the other night that was up to over 1200 replies. Sunday may be a slow day, but less than 30 comments probably means they are not allowing open comments on these threads. They should.
Second: Someone mentioned this series being an “unbiased source”. I’m tired of unbiased. I am sick and tired of it. Unbiased to me means denying what Islam is and what it promotes. I want opinions. Fine, somebody wants to disagree with an opinion, then let them do that in the comments.
Third: I like the links being in the body of the post in the middle of the blog where they belong and where your description is. If they were at the bottom it would be way too confusing.
Forth: I do not need you to read the blog post to me. I can read. These blog posts are fairly short and very easy to read and the entire concept of wanting you to read it is bizarre to me.
Fifth: This series is very useful and very helpful. The Koran is impossible to read on your own. None of it makes any sense without the context that you are providing.
I would like more opinion. But other than that, I look forward to these posts every Sunday.
Jaynie59 on January 6, 2008 at 6:59 PM
The Big Old Dog:
Here you go:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/articles/bloggingtheq.php
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 7:06 PM
I wish there was an easy way to access all the lessons thus far in one place.
TheBigOldDog on January 6, 2008 at 6:53 PM
http://jihadwatch.org/articles/bloggingtheq.php
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 7:08 PM
O oh, I guess I should refresh before I post.
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Yours is a thought process through which I enter and learn.
Thank you for your huge contributions to this site and our understanding of our world, ours but not ours yet ours I would hope.
maverick muse on January 6, 2008 at 7:12 PM
Excellent. Thank you both.
TheBigOldDog on January 6, 2008 at 7:13 PM
I agree with an earlier poster. I consider your postings a true academic joy, with very little I can add.
So, every week I read through it and soak up your knowledge.
Thanks for all the time you invest in this endeavor. It is truly appreciated!
dominigan on January 6, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Many thanks Robert Spencer, for enlightening in an understandable fasion, very informative videos and blog.
christophercube on January 6, 2008 at 7:36 PM
I agree with Jaynie regarding comment policy. When this Quran series started, I watched the HotAir website night and day waiting for membership to open again so I could join and participate. I am lucky I caught it when I did. That is why I suggested the podcast. This is information that needs to be spread, accessed, debated, argued, read and/or listened to, and I am afraid the closed comments here on this website severely restrict that. As long as HotAir comments are closed, the Blogging the Quran community is an exclusive, members-only club. That is the main reason I suggested something like itunes. As far as I am aware, this information is unique on the Internet, and it deserves to be accessable.
HeIsSailing on January 6, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Jaynie59:
As it happens, I am trying not to give that. Unlike the Slate “Blogging the Bible” series, which inspired this series, I am not giving my opinions about the various Qur’an passages, but am trying to illustrate how they are understood by various mainstream Islamic commentators. This provides a key to seeing how Muslims are taught to understand those passages.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 7:40 PM
I also read your Blogging the Koran piece each week and like it just as it is. I love to read and think that is the best way to learn anything, because you can easily reread anything that you didn’t understand on the first reading.
I would like to say Thank you very much Robert Spencer. Please continue with these studies as I can’t stand to actually read the Koran. It is a really messed up book!
TruthToBeTold on January 6, 2008 at 7:52 PM
OK. They better not open the comments then.
Jaynie59 on January 6, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Don’t forget Dhimmi Watch! In some ways it’s even more important than Jihad Watch.
Like many here, I read this series religiously, but usually not until later in the week. I generally don’t comment because by the time I read it, the comment section is pretty stale. I view this project as an historically significant archive. Years from now people will read it and wish they had gotten the message sooner.
As for an audio version, I think it’s a good idea. It would certainly get to a larger audience. Maybe you could include a free CD with each book.
RedWinged Blackbird on January 6, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Jaynie59:
Why not? I don’t see how that follows. I was talking about my own opinions, not anyone else’s.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 8:07 PM
Last time I remember Hot Air open registration was around July 4th, because I was on vacation and using my sisters laptop and didn’t comment much those 2 weeks. I do remember the thread being full of people very happy to be part of HA and finally able to express their opinion, although I have seen many new commenter’s. I have not seen half the count that came in in July. I have often wondered why more don’t comment?
abinitioadinfinitum on January 6, 2008 at 8:12 PM
I wouldn’t be at all concerned about the lack of comments here. The vast majority of comments in the blogosphere are frivolous. This series doesn’t provide much in the way of fodder for wannabe comedians. HA is a top tier conservative blog, and the Qur’an is a hot topic. You can bet it’s being read.
RedWinged Blackbird on January 6, 2008 at 8:38 PM
People take their cues from you. The impression I get is that this is meant as an academic exercise and is not meant to explain what is happening in the world today.
Comments will just cause problems. Anyone who says anything the least bit contrary to the idea that Islam has been perverted will just be seen as one more bigot.
I don’t know about anyone else but I’m tired of it. It’s bad enough to be called a bigot by those who know nothing about Islam, it is extremely maddening to be perceived as causing damage to “the cause” whenever the truth is told about what Islam really is and what it promotes.
Here’s my problem: I specifically went out of my way to avoid Jihad Watch for almost two years when I first got interested in Islam and wanted to know more about it. I refused to read any site that even smacked a little bit of anti-Islam bias. I was accused constantly of reading your site when in the beginning I didn’t even know who you were until your name kept being brought up.
That was more than 2 years ago. Don’t you know by now that it doesn’t matter how unbiased you try to be? You’re Robert Spenser. All your detractors have to do is post a list of the your books.
It doesn’t matter what you say or how you say it. You will never be taken seriously by anybody who isn’t willing to read what you actually write. And most people just aren’t willing to do that.
Look at this series? They want audio and podcasts.
How do you stand it?
Nevermind. I give up. I’m at the point now where I am convinced it’s hopeless. Islam will win.
Jaynie59 on January 6, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Sorry, Robert. I do know how to spell your name but I was a little pissed off when I wrote that reply.
And that’s another thing. When are we going to be allowed to be pissed off?
If 9/11 wasn’t enough, if Beslan wasn’t enough, if Nick Berg wasn’t enough, if Daniel Perl wasn’t enough, if Margaret Hassan wasn’t enough, if the beauty pageant riots weren’t enough, if Spain wasn’t enough, if 7/7/2005 wasn’t enough….
Theo Van Gogh….
The Danish cartoons…
The Pope…
I could go in and on and on………
When?
Jaynie59 on January 6, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Jaynie,
This is going to be a very long war. It’s much too soon to give up.
RedWinged Blackbird on January 6, 2008 at 9:31 PM
We’ve already given up.
I’ve been at this for almost 4 years and I’m tired. I don’t know how Robert does it or what makes him keep doing it.
It’s like shoveling shit against the tide and the tide keeps coming.
Jaynie59 on January 6, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Jaynie59:
Actually, the whole purpose of reading through the Qur’an is to try to help explain what is happening in the world today.
True, in some circles, although no one has yet produced this unperverted Islam.
Sorry. I don’t follow you here.
Yes, I know that. I still think that stating things honestly, and documenting them scrupulously, will matter to some people of good will.
Yes, I know that.
I don’t see how that follows from a discussion of the close-mindedness of some people.
How do I stand it? Well, by going insane, I suppose.
It’s never hopeless as long as there is still one free soul alive in the world.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Jaynie59:
There is anger that is righteous. But even righteous anger should be channelled toward something positive.
Robert Spencer on January 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Robert, your patience and tact earns you extra points tonight. Thanks again.
RushBaby on January 6, 2008 at 10:03 PM
That is the work of a gentleman and a hero to people of good will. Sir, I tip my hat to you.
And thanks for that link.
Spirit of 1776 on January 7, 2008 at 1:41 AM
Robert, I have just one most important question.
Do you have a blimp?
Seriously, though, please don’t stop doing these posts.
Vinnie on January 7, 2008 at 1:55 AM
Vinnie,
Sadly, no. I’ll add this to the list of things to ask Bryan about getting.
Robert Spencer on January 7, 2008 at 2:47 AM
I don’t comment in your posts because my comments seem to be shallow and snarky. I enjoy reading these lessons after the house gets quiet and I can sit down at the computer with my copy of the Koran and actually study.
I’m hoping that you will continue with this series. It is certainly increasing my understanding of Islam.
Thanks
Buzzy on January 7, 2008 at 4:58 AM
A sightly used blimp will be on the market, oh, maybe even within the next week or two. :)
Shy Guy on January 7, 2008 at 5:15 AM
Robert,
I’m waiting for another chance to write song lyrics.
I enjoy your series very much, and also get a lot out of reading the reader posts, and your replies there as well.
Christianity really doesn’t focus on deeds in order to achieve salvation. It was simply through belief in Christ that the criminal on the cross next to Him achieved salvation. The beauty and love of Christianity is presented in stark contrast to the misery and inhuman ugliness of Islam when I read your series.
It is interesting how Mohammad’s lack of understanding of the Trinity evolved into Islam rejecting the Triune God, or just not having the spiritual prowess to grasp the concept. Instead and in ignorance, Islam tries to pass it off as a weakness in the Hebrew and Christian truth, and the small mind of Mohammad creates an idol god much like all the rest that existed before true God, Light from Light.
Shalom
Hening on January 7, 2008 at 8:14 AM
Now that I can finally make comments on Hot Air (hi everyone!): Mr. Spencer, I heard you speak at my university and since then have followed your blog and your published work…I read “Blogging the Qur’an” on a consistent basis and truly appreciate you taking the time to write it. It’s given me the ability to speak on the work beyond the usual talking points, and hold my own in debates on this topic. I was one of the lurkers who read every week, but was unable to post since registration wasn’t open. To be honest, however, I’m not sure I would have commented much because – as others noted – it’s hard to find something to say about it beyond a “thank you” – I mostly find myself just absorbing the information and being grateful that you wrote it! :-)
JeepGirl on January 7, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Robert,
Every Monday morning!
Absolutely. I have also educated members of my extended family through these postings. I gave my wife a bit of education on 9:111 during the Republican debate on Saturday when they were talking about Jihadists.
I don’t think you should change anything. I don’t comment as much as I have in the past, probably because you cover things so thoroughly and consicely. Plus there’s a lot of repetition in a lot of the first nine suras, I think. How many times can we discuss yet another “Jews are apes, Christians are bad, Allah never had a son, and Mary wasn’t his wife” verse? Or aother “the Bible is corrputed. No really, it is!” verse? But it is important to cover the repetitions.
So here’s another thank you for your tireless work. You’re not shouting into an empty room.
crazy_legs on January 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Robert,
Thank you for this blog doesn’t begin to express my gratitude. I asked my Rabbi years ago why the arab’s are so pissed off. He didn’t know. Now he does thanks to your blog and JW/DW.
Also, even your comments are very interesting.
I can’t wait until Sunday AM for the latest installment…sometimes it’s so depressing I have to walk away. I would rather know the danger than have my head in the sand.
Never Submit.
JINDLE on January 7, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Interesting, I would think that the beauty of a scripture would be that it is powerful in any language. Is God limited to Arabic? I’ve heard chanting in Arabic (Christians) and it is beautiful. But so is the Greek, Russian, English, Latin… etc. It is even beautiful written in those languages. I understand that when you translate you ‘lose’ some meaning and also gain ‘artifacts’ in the translation. But then again, nobody but one who was raised an Arab in that tradition could possibly understand the words completely in that way, anyhow. The message must be portable. Seems like a nasty structural flaw to me.
Of course, one of the highest forms of Piety in the Islamic tradition is memorizing the whole Koran, am I correct? Whereas the Christian tends toward a piety of ‘To know much I must know little.’ Memorizing the words themselves is of no greater gain than any other exercise of discipline. You may as well take to praying while training your body as the Shaolin do.
RiverCocytus on January 7, 2008 at 11:30 AM
I have read this series every week, and look forward to it. It is quite informative, well written, and an invaluable tool in understand Islam.
Many times you write “Allah tells Muhammad”, yet Allah did not directly speak to him. Is this to assume that you mean “Allah’s message through Gabriel tells Muhammad”, or does he ever slip up and forget to mention that all his conversations with Allah were through Gabriel?
Also, how do the Qur’anic scholars address that all of the prophets mentioned, Jonah, Noah, Moses, Jesus, spoke directly with God, yet Muhammad did not? Or do they just not address/question it, and accept it as is?
Boot Hill on January 7, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Absolutely I read this series. I have found it quite helpful. Also I have found the Jidahwatch website as well as your books including “religion of Peace?” and “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam” enormously helpful.
Please keep going !
(And thanks to HotAir for opening registration!)
philtech on January 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Boot Hill
All through the Qur’an, Allah addresses Muhammad. Look on practically any page and you will see verses beginning with “Say…” This is Allah instructing Muhammad on what to say to his followers and/or the unbelievers. Muslims understand that it is all coming to Muhammad via Gabriel, but this is not emphasized in the Qur’anic text.
This is not a big issue, particularly since Jewish and Christian tradition has Moses encountering God through angels as an intermediary — see Galatians 3:19.
Robert Spencer on January 7, 2008 at 1:02 PM
1. Yes Every word and every post
2. You have done a yeoman’s job of pushing back the frontiers of ignorance, mine included.
3. N/A
4. Get the people at hot air to open registration so that those of us who have been reading it here can comment. Oh, this is hot air? You did that, too! You da MAN!!! Thanks !!!
Have you seen Achmed the dead terrorist yet?
dentalque on January 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Robert,
as a great man (lets just call him “D. Prager”) once said: “the famous are not always important, and the important are not always famous” Mr. Spencer, you may not be “famous” but you are definatley important.
RMC1618 on January 7, 2008 at 1:35 PM
Robert,
It may not be a 1000+ count thread but we are pushing 100 :)
-
also I had no problem with the comment window today.
abinitioadinfinitum on January 7, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Robert
I’d like you to point out the verses that, in your opinion, do mental and spiritual damage to the individual that tries to please Allah. We often hear of the “Sword Verses” that threaten anything casting a shadow that is not enslaved to Islam but we often don’t see the subtle soul prison that is the lot of Muslims themselves. They have to live this life of ignorance,cruelty and unsurety.
I’m thinking of the impact of demands like …take no unbeliever as a friend…or …a wife and children are a necessary burden that distracts a man from Allah…or that by following this second demand it leads to the ability to perform an honor killing without blinking. I don’t thing westerners quite understand the social and familial damage inherent in Islam.
BL@KBIRD on January 7, 2008 at 2:02 PM
I don’t thing it and I don’t think it either. ;)
BL@KBIRD on January 7, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Blogging the Qur’an is a most valuable endeavor. Thank you Robert.
awake on January 7, 2008 at 2:08 PM
I read every week, anxiously awaiting each new posting. I think this is an invaluable service. We all need to be educated about what we are facing.
mcphja2 on January 7, 2008 at 3:32 PM
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