Open thread: Hey, how does three and a half hours of debate on a Saturday night sound?
posted at 6:00 pm on January 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
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The fun begins at 7 p.m. ET on ABC. I believe it’s the GOP up first followed by the Hillary-Obama death match at around 8:30, so if you want to catch the Republicans and then switch to Jags-Steelers, you won’t miss much of either. Fred may go after Huck to try to start peeling away evangelical fencesitters in South Carolina; everyone else will be gunning for Mitt, with the exchanges between him and St. John promising plenty of acid highlights later.
Sound off in the comments and please pass along tips about video-worthy moments. In the meantime, for your reading pleasure, here’s (a) Bob Novak whispering that it was Mitt who was behind the Fred dropout rumors last week, (b) Slublog analyzing Huckamania, and (c) word from New Hampshire that the state GOP has dropped out of the debate tomorrow night due to Fox’s Ron Paul snub. With Paul bringing out independents and various donation-happy kooks for the primary, I guess they had no choice but to go to bat for him.
Update (Bryan): You may already know this, but if you want to keep track of the game while you’re watching the debate, hit the NFL’s site and click on the game score and you’ll get a page that’s updated every few seconds. Washington just took the lead as I was writing this update.
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Mitt? Your program relied on government money to bring insurance rates down.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 7:50 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Argh! It’s not either or Paul! Socialized medicine is not good!
Spirit of 1776 on January 5, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Huckabee just doesn’t even know what to say, he looks like a deer in headlights.
Thoughts going through his mind: What are all these big words, they’re actually asking me things?
John_Locke on January 5, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Certainly you are right there. It isn’t a traditional war, but there is still counterinsurgency work and soldiers are dying. Brave guys. Tough work. Hope we can coerce the Iraqi government to get its act together and be an ally. The price tag has been really high.
dedalus on January 5, 2008 at 7:50 PM
I don’t like this debate format. It seems like Ron Paul has had about 40% of the time so far.
FloatingRock on January 5, 2008 at 7:50 PM
35-14 Hawks. Game over.
Slublog on January 5, 2008 at 7:51 PM
LOL Fred
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 7:51 PM
Anyone think Paul would be more happy with the barter system?
William Teach on January 5, 2008 at 7:51 PM
Love to talk about it, but lets pick it up after the live action of the debate. Okay with you?
Spirit of 1776 on January 5, 2008 at 7:51 PM
The problem is for healthcare isnt coverage. The dems want to give healthcare to just the 12 million that isnt covered. That doesnt make health care better for everyone it puts more people in the system that drains more resources.
You want better health care ? How about increasing the supply side. You make it easier to build hospitals, You reduce costs for drugs and medicines, You make it easier for people to become doctors and nurses.
You do that without using the government
William Amos on January 5, 2008 at 7:51 PM
Can someone tell me why I didn’t know ABC was having a debate,oh and only on one channel,and CNN isn’t carrying it!
canopfor on January 5, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Short of actually getting into Ron’s crazy with him, Fred’s reply was about the best you can do in this context.
CK MacLeod on January 5, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Great point
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Giving tax breaks for healthcare? Where is the government going to get that money from to give back to the people? Oh yea, they will simply borrow more. UGH.
muyoso on January 5, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Oh yes, I was not being snarky, truly, I would love to hear what you have to say. Just think! I could learn something.
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 7:52 PM
SMACK
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Good one Fred.
Guardian on January 5, 2008 at 7:53 PM
LOL! Fred FTW.
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 7:53 PM
SECOND LOOK AT THE SEAHAWKS
(someone had to do it)
Bryan on January 5, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Paul has been talking way too much.
Did Hunter drop out? or is he not there?
rosewaning on January 5, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Slap him Fred
conservnut on January 5, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Fred ZING on Romney.
peski on January 5, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Come on Mitty Buck up and answer
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Fred has Mitt in a corner.
Guardian on January 5, 2008 at 7:54 PM
take the lawyers out of health care, that outta fix a LOT of it
RJS2 on January 5, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Thompson ‘08.
rosewaning on January 5, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Fred is whoopin’ up on Romney.
TheSitRep on January 5, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Fred got Mitt flustered trying to defend his MA health care plan; predictibly Mitt won’t admit that people were fined for not buying insurance.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 7:55 PM
This is a great debate format.
I supported the surge before there was a surge. Many people thought we needed more boots on the ground.
Mitt, “the awful candidate” is doing very well.
Buy Danish on January 5, 2008 at 7:55 PM
oh DEAR Mitt just gave the Rockefeller line! Rockefeller said in a debate “Let’s lot at the average person making 100,000 a year” which is what I heard. Might not be what he was talking about, but the bells went off in my head.
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 7:55 PM
What about the illegals Mitt
conservnut on January 5, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Nanny
WalterMittyWilliam Amos on January 5, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Take punitive damages away from the lawyers and make them payable like a fine. It’d reduce the incentive anyway.
trubble on January 5, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Not invited; didn’t meet the criteria due to his poor polling numbers and last place showing in IA.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 7:56 PM
He looked REAL presidential on health care huh?
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Romney is get smack down here. He is stammering and waivering.
TheSitRep on January 5, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Yeah! Nanny state Huck. “Before it intervenes…” GTFO
Spirit of 1776 on January 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM
No pre-emptive health care? Uhh…Huck…that’s what HMO’s are suppose to be doing
RJS2 on January 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM
I’m waiting for one of these guys to say “take the John Edwards out of our health care”
conservnut on January 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Team Romney is already refuting Huckabee’s claim to have supported the surge. This email just came in.
Huck left himself a useful caveat in specifying the Guard and Reserve.
Bryan on January 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM
what the hell is huck talking about?
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Huck is talking about forcing people to get healthcare before they get sick
William Amos on January 5, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Gibson is JUMPING in as a DEBATER! Whiskey.Tango.Foxtrot?!?!?!?!
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 7:58 PM
FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS = HIGHER HEALTH COSTS FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZENS
stenwin77 on January 5, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Yeah. I was just thunderstruck.
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
How bout no mas free care for illegals that bankrupt our hospitals?
Spirit of 1776 on January 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Wow, Mitt really spun his wheels on health care. Fred took him for a ride, I was fairly impressed. I wondered if “sleepytime Fred” was going to show up… up until then he didn’t strike me as too active, but I have to say that when he goes on the attack he does far better than others. If he bothered to do that more, he might have more than an outside chance at this nomination.
Wineaholic on January 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Wow, Charlie Gibson just made a conservative point about controlling health care costs vs. McCain. Very impressive, Mr. Gibson!
joewm315 on January 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Your inner Tancredo is showing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
McCain’s on a health care roll,hehe
canopfor on January 5, 2008 at 8:00 PM
The argument between state run healthcare in private health insurance is a false dichotomy, as long as you have a third party payment system. People will not shop for the cheapest service. The best analogy to this is veterinarian service. People’s pets are rarely insured, and so their care is eminently affordable.
TheSitRep on January 5, 2008 at 8:00 PM
The FREE MARKET is the incentive to keep costs down. None better.
Oh, and pass some gouging laws and let class action lawsuits happen?
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 8:00 PM
OMG, Mitt defending the Pharmaceutical companies??
muyoso on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Mitt is talking MANDATES, that is NOT taking the government out of it
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Does anyone doubt that Romney could probably turn around government waste in all of twently minutes?
John_Locke on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Didn’t Fred interrupt Mitt before he had a chance to complete his response?
I don’t know about you, but what I like about this format is that the candidates get more than a 60 second soundbite to present their views. I’d like to be able to hear what they have to say within a reasonable amount of time without someone chirping in and interrupting them to get in a smartass line.
Buy Danish on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
As to Huckabee’s “preventive care”, it’s just another example of how that guy sounds great while speaking in generalities, as long as you have n idea what he’s frickin’ talking about. Goverment mandated weight limits, diets, fat taxes, and other socialist measures are his “preventive measures”. Wake up, Huckabee supporters.
joewm315 on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
So far, I think I’m enjoying this forum
RJS2 on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Mitt was kind of grown-up compared to ol ‘crotchety on Big Pharma.
CK MacLeod on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
This style of forum beats the hell out of talking snowmen.
Guardian on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Considering he favors government waste like ag subsidies and corporate welfare- yes, I doubt it very much.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
I like to think they’re ganging up on RP and giving him a swirlie during the break.
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Had to run an errand, who is winning?
bnelson44 on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
What the hell does “preventive” care even mean? Mandating doctor appointments?
John_Locke on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
I hope that aliens abduct Ron Paul during the break. That would be so sweeeeet!
RJS2 on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
He’s showed his bias with the “only 1st world country without universal health care” meme. Who the heck ever said that’s a moral obligation of government?!! . . .To make sure I’m insured against health problems.
To US government: Protect me – otherwise GET OUT OF MY LIFE!
The Ritz on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Also, no one wants to mention the impact that law suits and trial attorneys (i.e., John Edwards)have on our healtcare and pharmacutical costs. It’s HUGE!
(Can you tell I’m in the med mal field?)
stenwin77 on January 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
I wish!
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
yep.
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Fred asked Mitt a very key question, Mitt ran away
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
@ CK MacLeod on January 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Mitt was defending an industry that nearly no one in America likes. He is defending an industry that has literally no competition, and claiming its the free market.
muyoso on January 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
OMG, who are you going to call when you need a drug to save your life, or improve the quality of your life? Yeah, they really are despicable.
I’ll be happy to go into more details later.
Dittoes for the demonization of the oil companies.
Buy Danish on January 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
What the hell does “preventive” care even mean? Mandating doctor appointments?
John_Locke on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
———————————-
It means that Huck is going to tell you what to eat and put you on a diet.
Did you know he’s a Baptist preacher, has no money and has lost a lot of weight?
stenwin77 on January 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Rudy,well were would the Canadians go for their health care!
canopfor on January 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
The aliens fear Ron Paul.
CK MacLeod on January 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Thanks. Laura does a good job of showing the empty half (or more) of Huckabee’s glass.
petefrt on January 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
I agree with you stenwin77, between lawyers and illegals, that has sunk our healthcare
RJS2 on January 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Mitt dodged the question regarding what the penalty was for not being insured, so yeah- Fred jumped in.
We already had numerous sound byte “debates” with little or no interaction between candidates and a reliance on canned answers that you describe. Time to let ‘em duke it out.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
@ The Ritz on January 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
How could you fault him for that. We ARE the ONLY industrialized nation without government run healthcare. I want my candidate to have a cogent response as to why that is a good thing.
muyoso on January 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM
Mitt is just GRABBING time from others
FRED needs to GRAB some time and tell Mitt to STFU when he interrupts him again!
abinitioadinfinitum on January 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM
I’m enjoying the format too. Fred is whipping some bootie, Romney looks floppy, Rudy and McCain are stable, Huck is a good talker but continually exposes himself as a nanny state leftist tax mongering identity politics shill.
peski on January 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM
LOL
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM
how much would drug prices drop if the FDA approval process was radically streamined and the length of patents on drugs was lengthened by 5 years? Right now they have to make up expenses in a very short period of time, hence the exorbitant costs.
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM
They wouldn’t really be abducting him, they’d just be taking him home.
Hollowpoint on January 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Hey, his commercials say, “We believe in some things, we stand by those things, we live or die by those things!” What more do you want?!! Details only create confusion!
The Ritz on January 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
And McCain starts his spin.
muyoso on January 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Companies and health care providers will create a better healthcare is we take the reins out of the hands of government and put it into the hands of people making their own choice.
Companies will work to make cheaper and more effective drugs and medicines when the healthcare system isnt bloated or ineffective. Putting more people on the healthcare roles means that companies will have to increase costs to meet the higher demand. Healthcare like education is spiraling out of control because the demand has increased so dramatically.
Our healthcare system cost have increased exponentially because we added Medicade and Medicare to the national health roles. Now with a rise in illegal immigration has only increased the demand on our resources.
Increasing goverment funds into healthcare will only drain more resources and increase costs for everyone
William Amos on January 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
American people lost trust in YOU Mav.
abinitioadinfinitum on January 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Mitt is long on wind and short on answers
Huck spins like a Dervish and flings crap like a combine
McCain, not too bad
Paul, too much blame America but otherwise OK
Fred….where’s Fred? He can’t get a word in edgewise
Beto Ochoa on January 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda yak yak shhhhhhhhhhhh amnesty. McCain
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 8:07 PM
The concept of medical insurance. Only insurers that people don’t shop for the cheapest price, and that my friends is totally un-American. If we just outlawed insurance in its entirety, health care costs plummet. It would motivate people to work out and lose weight and eat healthily, stop smoking etc. and of course get three quotes before you go to a hospital. Capitalism works every time it is tried, communism fails every time.
The very mental state that a health care consumer has when they have insurance is the exact same state of mind that a communist has when they go to their communist hospital. And that winds up giving you were poor service and high costs.
TheSitRep on January 5, 2008 at 8:07 PM
how much would drug prices drop if the FDA approval process was radically streamined and the length of patents on drugs was lengthened by 5 years? Right now they have to make up expenses in a very short period of time, hence the exorbitant costs.
———————————————
Don’t forget lawsuits !!!! I see it everyday.
stenwin77 on January 5, 2008 at 8:07 PM
We were just saying the same thing!
Aggie85 on January 5, 2008 at 8:07 PM
If I knew nothing of McCain’s record, I’d be somewhat interested in him. But given his past, i trust him as far as i can throw him.
TexasDan on January 5, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Good answer from Mitt
Gatordoug on January 5, 2008 at 8:08 PM
You buy into the idea that it’s the government’s job to make sure I’m covered?
Go Vote Dumocrat!
The Ritz on January 5, 2008 at 8:09 PM
I doubt that Franks thought that a “Phase IV (”Islamic nation building”) plan” made any sense.
That is probably why he retired when he did.
MB4 on January 5, 2008 at 8:09 PM
McCains answering on Immigration,I sincerely hope this
isn’t a Liberal trap,Charles Gibson would be the last
moderator I would trust!
canopfor on January 5, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Yeah, we are going to stop them at the border. Why are NONE of these guys asking CURRENT senators WHY they have DEFUNDED the fence this week? Duncan Hunter is back in Congress to FIX that. If I were Fred, I would smack McCain with that NOW.
CrimsonFisted on January 5, 2008 at 8:10 PM
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