What about Fred? Update: He’s in
posted at 11:25 pm on January 3, 2008 by Allahpundit
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He’s going to finish with 13%, give or take a point and either just north or just south of McCain. Good enough to soldier on to South Carolina? With Mitt, his social con rival, having just been dealt a terrible blow and all kinds of love flowering for him in the blogosphere? Sure, why not?
The question is whether he’s willing to risk torpedoing his pal McCain, who expects to be heading down south as a winner in New Hampshire, by making SC a three-way race instead of a Huck-Mac showdown. The answer: Are we sure Fred would draw more votes from Maverick than from Huckabee? The Fredheads love him first and foremost for his position on immigration, precisely the reason so many of them also hate McCain. Conservatives (especially evangelicals) in South Carolina who aren’t real thrilled with either Huck or Mac might be tempted to go with the former purely on religious grounds; if Fred’s in the race, maybe they go for him instead. It’d take an awful lot of them to make Thompson a surprise winner, but there’s no harm in finding out just how many. Slu thinks his federalist approach might be just the ticket there if — if — he really sells it.
Bottom line: Now might be a good time to do a little encouraging.
Update: The Des Moines Register detects a pulse.
Update: What if McCain flames out in New Hampshire and Romney bounces back? That ends things for Maverick and makes South Carolina tougher for Fred. Although he’ll probably just try the “real conservative” shtick down there again.
Update: On with the show.
“It’s pretty clear we’re going to have a ticket to the next dance,” Thompson said as the audience cheered.
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Understood – worked in both environments, and this is absolutely true. Just for my nature, I favor the independence, with all the risks/responsibilities it brings.
Also, I’m glad you’re back to commenting as I like your impeccable writing, even if I don’t always agree with it all. But we can agreeably/respectfully disagree. As wccawa said we best save the country. Contrary to you, I fear a Hillary presidency because I fear a slide toward socialism will never return later, and Obama is even harder to beat.
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:20 AM
Heh, my bad.
Bad Candy on January 4, 2008 at 1:22 AM
I’d say we’d ask our friend MB, but…best to keep on topic tonight, for history’s sake :)
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:24 AM
I believe Republicans would fight socialism coming from a Democrat moreso than socialism coming from a Republican. Remember, we lost Congress in 2006, because the Republican Congress went away from low spending and President Bush didn’t veto any high spending bills. If we continue to pound the point home that the GOP took the house in 1994, because of adherence to fiscal conservative principles and if they want to take it back anytime soon again, they need to get back to it, then they may be willing to fight. However, if their Party leader is in the White, as was President Bush the last 7 years, then they would probably be just as bad with spending.
Either way, as always, it is going to depend on a majority of American citizens taking an active interest in their government, no matter who is in office. Having a Democrat in office just means we will have to work much harder.
Michael in MI on January 4, 2008 at 1:28 AM
Not only that, but what if the populace will decide that the only reason they didn’t get anything passed was because they had such a slim majority, and reward them with a supermajority, and they have all 3.
Land in Transylvania anyone? Just kidding, but the above is dead serious.
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:29 AM
And learn Spanish, buy up all the guns and ammo before it gets pulled from the shelves, hire another tax proffesional, get used to the idea of cow-towing to Islamist nations, etc., etc……
P. James Moriarty on January 4, 2008 at 1:31 AM
Hillary Rodham Clinton is the
Joan d’Arcche guevarasymbol and epitome of the radical 60’s. I want her to be the nominee so that when we defeat her, America can officially close the book on that shameful chapter of our history.RushBaby on January 4, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Remember, we lost Congress in 2006, because the Republican Congress went away from low spending and President Bush didn’t veto any high spending bills.
I will grant you the technical points, but I think it misses the macro issue. (Side note – Bush says Congress worked with him so he didn’t need to veto – compare it to his veto and veto threats after 06). I think the Dem’s took the Congress because they controlled the message. You say, if we continue to pound the message…Not to be contrary, but how do you propose to do that? Especially if Obama is the guy. If we pull out of Iraq and there is a lull in violence, we might see a pseudo-Camelot period. I think people are worn out after BDS.
Re: spending. The Dems will get a pass with spending because of the volitility in the economy/market right now. The Dems will blame that on Bush and say it is prove that Reaganomics don’t work. I like your idealism but your plan requires a Newt. Who is our Newt?
Spirit of 1776 on January 4, 2008 at 1:37 AM
Yeah. Mrs. Pelosi has already said that it is those darn Republicans that are killing the buzz. I don’t think those darn Republicans would have held the line on Iraq without Bush though, and I don’t think they would have held the line on amnesty without the phone lines melting.
Spirit of 1776 on January 4, 2008 at 1:38 AM
Entelechy,
You could be right but as the GOP did in its last six years the hubris of having all three will deliver a similar result – little gets done and the country tires of the imbalance.
Bradky on January 4, 2008 at 1:40 AM
Yes, we can respectfully disagree and I find myself being able to respectfully disagree with many who comment here. However, for a while, it seemed there were a lot of commenters who were more interested in online pissing contests and trying to make fun of each other, rather than having a discussion about things and agreeing or respectfully disagreeing on the issues.
I have been guilty of going overboard on a few occassions, including my comments on the “silly hat” thread. But I don’t take back anything I said, because I meant it. Obviously, I could have expressed it differently, but at that point my patience with the snark and nonsense I had read around here had completely evaporated.
Which is why I had to smile when I saw wccawa snap this morning with a few of his/her comments lashing out at AllahPundit. I could completely sympathize with the sentiment and agreed with it. That was my mindset back during “silly hat”. But I get the feeling that AllahPundit just takes pleasure in pushing people’s buttons and watching them lose it, and then when he gets criticized in an irrational manner, he can just write the people off as drama queens, truthers or nutcases. So it’s a no-lose situation for him and a no-win for any commenter. I’ve learned to accept that, though it does test my patience from time to time. But it seems the best way to get back at AllahPundit is just to not to respond to it. He’ll keep antagonizing if we keep responding. Best to just ignore the snark and comment on the issues and discuss that.
And yeah, we disagree on never recovering from a Hillary or Obama Presidency. But that’s okay. I don’t think you’re irrationally paranoid for thinking that way, and I hope you don’t think I am irrationally naive for not thinking that way. I just like the message that Rush puts out in his show every day that the goal is to get informed, educated engaged citizens. It’s kinda like ‘hearts and minds’. I think the more people are informed, educated and engaged, the less power politicians have and the less we have to ‘fear’ them. I think if we keep encouraging people to get informed, educated and engaged, then Hillary won’t be able to get away with everything she wants to do.
Michael in MI on January 4, 2008 at 1:42 AM
I read that 80% of Americans prefer the executive branch and the legislative branch to be held by different parties. Makes sense, an extension of checks and balances. But in the last century that the legislative branch has been held by the left more. So when the Repubs lose the WH it’s like losing a home game on the schedule.
Spirit of 1776 on January 4, 2008 at 1:43 AM
While I agree with you in spirit, P. James Moriarty, I refuse to let myself have this attitude, because I believe it is a defeatist and victimhood attitude. We are not victims of our government, the government answers to us. The only way things get enacted in this country is if We, the People, allow it to happen.
As I said, I continue to believe that we just need to get more active ourselves and encourage others to be active to make sure the government is answering to its citizens. Yes, I am young and naive and idealistic, but our country was formed based on citizens standing up to what they felt was a corrupt government, some could say they were naive and idealistic too. But look what they accomplished. We should be inspired by the founding of our own nation and not just accept that we are slaves to the whims of politicians.
Michael in MI on January 4, 2008 at 1:49 AM
Hello Brad from KY – Noted the other day but you probably had left the headline thread. Mystery solved :)
You might be right but I don’t want to find that out with the 3 in charge of socialists. There is little I hate more than socialism/communism, right after totalitarianism, of which one of the former is…you know all this already. Happy New Year to you and yours,
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:52 AM
RushBaby on January 4, 2008 at 1:36 AM
I’ll roger, 10-4, amen that, because it was a “shot over, shot out”.
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:55 AM
Spirit of 1776 on January 4, 2008 at 1:37 AM
I don’t have the answers for you there. Yes, I am idealistic and don’t have the answers for my proposals. But I am putting the ideas out there to hopefully inspire people who are more educated and informed about this political process and government in general to complement my ideas/idealism with solutions and actions.
From what I see, and from what I get from listening to Rush Limbaugh, is that there are not any Republicans who believe much in Conservatism anymore. I believe part of this comes from the belief that Republicans are more interested in defeating Democrats than sticking to Conservative principles. So Republicans are now trying to move to the middle as a Party, as a result of being painted by Democrats and the media as ‘extreme’ and ‘radical’ on issues. The simple fact is that the media controls the message.
The way to get around this is to work from the ground up. We have to get the message out to our fellow citizens and get more active. Plain and simple, we have to stop being the “silent majority” and start being the “proud to be conservative, loud and active majority”.
We also need to stop with the demonizing of one another and get back to actually talking about ideas in a rational manner with one another. Not all Democrats and leftists are irrational nutjobs beyond hope. Some are just ignorant of facts and would see the benefits of Conservatism if they were presented to them in a rational manner. Many people today are actually reactionary in their ideology, instead of having rational thought out ideologies. Just look at BDS. That is reactionary. I just know that in my everyday talks with people at work and with friends, I have grown to realize there are many people out there who hold opinions based solely on what they get from the mass media. And when we get into discussions and I pass on info I find on a military blog or here at HotAir or whatever else, they are shocked to learn about it. They then start asking more questions about the issue and then we get into a discussion about it and they have a more educated view on the matter. My circle of friends at work with whom I share conservative political idealogy has grown since I started getting to know more people and being more willing to discuss my political opinions in a calm, reasoned manner.
I think if we all did this, things would improve. But, unfortunately, it is not going to happen overnight. But, the way I see it, we could start with this attitude in the GOP primary. Many people have commented here about how the GOP is eating their own. There is so much invective and vitriol tossed around at one another over people’s choices in candidates. Then we have the hit pieces on each candidate, and people calling each other every name in the book over their support for one candidate or another. Then we insult entire states and entire groups of people, based on polls we see or a comment in a newspaper from one person associated with that state or group. This is not helping in the least. That does not inspire people to care about their country. Instead it makes people care even less and just infects them with defeatism and victimhood.
We need to get away from that attitude.
Anyway, I’m rambling on here and I need to get to bed. Instead of wasting all this space in the comments here, maybe I will get my thoughts down better on my blog in the next few days. I’ll think about this more and see if I can come up with a better answer for you there.
Goodnight, all. TGIF
Michael in MI on January 4, 2008 at 2:06 AM
Of course not – obviously we survived the first Clinton years, but these are different times…much more to discuss as the year moves on.
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 2:07 AM
Good night Michael. Have a great Friday/weekend,
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 2:07 AM
Ticket to Ride Fred 08
sonnyspats1 on January 4, 2008 at 2:08 AM
Well, Fred finally did something to piss me off.
The article said that he didn’t show up at his campaign headquarters to be with his supporters until midnight. The damn thing was over at 9.
It’s a school night! Jeez. He made them all wait 3 hours?
Not good at all.
Jaynie59 on January 4, 2008 at 2:09 AM
I can’t fairly comment on strategy in a short answer (I need to get to bed) but allow me 3 comments:
1) I agree re:attitude. I have had consider success with Truthers myself, and that doesn’t not come from labeling or yelling, but by engaging their mind in intellectual inquiry of their own assumptions. So I agree.
2) Re: party of middle. That is the legacy of Rove. Not that as a reality, but that as the belief of reality.
3) Conservatives: I still believe conservatism resonates with a great percentage of people. This nation was conceived on the idea or personal worth and personal responsibility. We have it in our political bones more than any other country.
Spirit of 1776 on January 4, 2008 at 2:27 AM
Happens with my conservative friends and relatives. People seriously just don’t get the information. Honor killings in America? You gotta be kidding. And so on.
Since you’re a Rush listener, I have a few ideas to bat around with you, another time. About the thing he always repeats, the callers are there to make the host look good.
Rush has always said his business model is out there, transparent, for all to emulate, but the cues are misunderstood or not even recognized when he states them plainly.
I would be extremely interested in your thoughts on the matter. TGYNINY. (Thank goodness you’re not in New York) where they’re is apparently awash in a swarm of bedbugs.
RushBaby on January 4, 2008 at 2:34 AM
yeah, that was literate. sigh.
RushBaby on January 4, 2008 at 2:36 AM
RB, you’re still around? No bedbugs here :)
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 2:40 AM
I never said I would stop participating, but lets be realistic here. The dems, if in charge to the extent you envision, would undoubtably enact restrictive gun control as they have for decades said they would, raise taxes as they have said they want to to pay for greatly increased social programs (without dealing with the entitlement programs that are already bankrupting our nation), try to make nice with religious governments (Islamic) that have for 13 centuries said and demonstrated that they want to kill or convert us, willingly accept santuary cities and an increased flow of illegals as they have indicated in almost every debate on the subject they’ve been in, appoint acivist jusdges to the Supreme court as they have said in Congress they want to do, etc., etc., ……
By all means keep your idealism as long as you can. I have lived through too much, seen too much in other countries from Kenya to Indonesia to Germany to Israel to this one to have any illusions about the grave consequences that await those who do not guard their liberty and freedoms. IMHO what the dems (Marxists/Socialists) have in store for us is nothing short of deadly, both literally (Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.) and in terms of freedom figuratively. Extreme on my part? Maybe. But mark me, if the Dems take hold like you say, the Militia will come back to life with a vengance.
P. James Moriarty on January 4, 2008 at 2:42 AM
Fred has always been my dog in this hunt.
When Mitt, Rudy, Huck, and John escaped and changed their Liberal colors the liberal stink stayed the same. We simply went to the kennel(Tennesee), gave the dog(Fred) a good whiff of the stink, then turned him loose. Because the escapees had a head start it’s taking our dog some time to catch up, but he is on the stink trail and making great progress.
New Hampshire will be nothing more than a loss of the stink trail, but the dog will keep working to pick it up and by Wednesday of next week will be back on the stink trail.
McCain won New Hampshire the last time, but lost miserably in South Carolina. Reason: Many Vietnam Veterans (and especially those in S.C.) see through the McCain smokescreen(his POW status) and get a true view of the enemy as he crosses no mans land on the attack. I have faith in my S.C. Vietnam Veteran brothers that they will stop the McCain attack again this year and give Fred the opportunity to put him back in his stinky liberal prison.
Helloyawl on January 4, 2008 at 4:37 AM
Hi Entelechy,
I understand your concern. But the GOP is splintering not uniting. Too many of the GOP base see themselves as a single issue voter. The problem with that is that the specifice issue differs from one voter to the next.
That said, the Democrats are poised to be a very unified party and will begin to refine its message to the center to get the moderates to go with them. If the GOP continues to treat its considerable number of moderate members as unclean and unworthy it will drive them away.
The person most revered in the GOP – Reagan – never made the center feel that they owed some kind of 100% slavish loyalty to the party, he respected and listened to the differences and earned their loyalty and votes.
Regards and Have a good weekend. :)
Bradky on January 4, 2008 at 6:31 AM
That kind of talk is just silly. If democracy doesn’t deliver the results you want revolution and militias are the only logical action?
Bradky on January 4, 2008 at 6:34 AM
Well if you all want to buy some Obama Snake Oil…good luck guys
tomas on January 4, 2008 at 6:37 AM
Ah Tomas and what kind of snake oil were you pushing a few months ago?
I’ll take Obama’s solutions over yours any day.
Bradky on January 4, 2008 at 7:27 AM
Fred needs more than awkward/forced fire in his belly at this point. He needs momentum and visibility, which he’s not getting until SC… if even then. I’m pulling for him, but Huck has taken the wind out of his sails and I’m afraid “floating on” is an accurate description from Allah.
MT on January 4, 2008 at 8:23 AM
Look for more choruses of “Fred’s gonna quit” after NH, too. You won’t have to look far to see that bit of snarkiness appear but the doers will simply act innocent in all this, of course. Maybe Stephie will be bold and try that same prediction again?
Kokonut on January 4, 2008 at 9:05 AM
P_____o’s warming up the soprano section. Check the headlines.
RushBaby on January 4, 2008 at 9:16 AM
3rd place for Fred is good in a state where he started campaigning late, where the others spent much more money, and where he wasn’t even expected to show. 3rd place makes him a top-tier with Mitt, and Huck. Bad showing for Rudy, gotta say that surprises me. The best news? This is the end for Ron Paul.
otcconan on January 4, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Like I said in the headlines (that will be gone in about 15 min :)
- The Cat
P.S. I just quoted myself . . .what a geek
MirCat on January 4, 2008 at 9:29 AM
Ditto. You old softie.
Jaibones on January 4, 2008 at 9:49 AM
I had to share this with the Hotair Frednecks:
http://www.stickittopolitico.com/
It’s a GREAT place to donate to Fred (and we can Stick It To Politico!!!
See Redstate too:
Posted at 9:48am on Jan. 4, 2008
Crack Whores Run The Politico
By Erick
Ex-tex on January 4, 2008 at 9:59 AM
With Mitt stumbling I expect that conservatives will give Fred another look. It is obvious that Mitt cannot overcome the bigots who hate Mormonism, too bad, but it’s true. So conservatives who want to keep the Huckster and McVain out of the WH have only one choice in the top tier of candidates, Fred!
Bill C on January 4, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Thompson / Hunter
Fred! I know your people are lurking here!!!
lobosan5 on January 4, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Mitt didn’t lose because of his Mormonism.
Gianni on January 4, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Vets and other drivers will prevent McCain from winning SC. I don’t know who will win, but I don’t think McCain will.
Bradky, while I understood your message, you assume the far lefties in that party are the ones of the Reagan era. No way. Not today. Also Obama is NOT Reagan, and there is no Reagan today. Also, agree with all you wrote on conservatives/Reagan…I contend that a strong 3rd party for that vast middle will form because it doesn’t fit in any party. The two have become to ossified. Also to your comment, the middle doesn’t want to wake up being ‘raped’ by the leftie socialists in wolves clothing. We’re the independents, remember. Thus, your theory is valid in the e-world, but not in reality. Always enjoy conversing with you,
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Bradky, forgot, that 3rd party (not just one of them) I talked about might not form in this cycle. It might be that the conservatives need a really tough punch first.
On Ron Paul, I don’t think he’ll fade into the sunset, gracefully, unfortunately. His yahoos are from both sides and they’re riding high. Got a X-mas letter from one of them, two pages long, on all the conspiracy theories ever heard of, and why to vote for him – not even a good wish included.
Entelechy on January 4, 2008 at 1:05 PM
OMGOMG, AP posted a link to contribute to Thompson?
*faint*
Just kidding. Though it is kind of shocking given all the doom and gloom lately.
viking999 on January 4, 2008 at 2:20 PM
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