Video: Tammy Bruce on the great Fred letdown; Update: See-Dub reaches stage two
posted at 11:19 am on December 31, 2007 by Allahpundit
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We’ve all felt it, although not all of us are at the same stage of coping. Tammy and I have reached stage five, i.e. acceptance; what she describes as the “weird, hostile, paranoid remarks I got from what’s called the Fredhead base” indicates a mindset still trapped in stage two — anger. Most of HA’s resident Fredheads seem still to be trapped in stage one. I fear for them come Thursday. Try to at least get to stage three before the results start trickling in, guys, just to cushion the blow.
What’s up with Beckel getting all snotty here with TB? I thought he was one of the “good” Democrats. Exit question: If Fred finishes a distant third, does he drop out on Friday and endorse McCain? He could barely afford that new ad in Iowa; how’s he going to pay for ads in South Carolina if he stays in?
Update: See-Dub indulges the Fredhead within. He’s mostly right about the “fire in the belly” crap — it’s a weak knock, but it’s not coming from nowhere. Such was the hype for Fred this past spring that anything short of Reagan II was bound to disappoint. Criticizing him for lacking “fire in the belly” is just a sort of catch-all, I think, for the overall disappointment most people feel in him.
Update (Bryan): I don’t know where this myth of Bob Beckel being one of the “good” Democrats came from, but it’s not grounded in reality. After the Florida debacle in 2000, Beckel wanted to continue the struggle for the presidency by “persuading” electors whose votes were committed to Bush to switch to Gore. And by “persuading,” I actually mean blackmailing.
* Worst of all, as the Wall Street Journal reported on its front page on November 16, Walter Mondale’s former campaign manager, Bob Beckel, launched an intelligence operation to explore the backgrounds of Republican members of the Electoral College.
“It is information gathering on my part, using my own network” Beckel confessed. “I call on mostly Democrats, but some Republicans, too, and ask, ‘Who are these electors, and what do you know about them?’ I just wanted to know who these electors are.”
Blackmail anyone?
Just three defections from Bush’s 271 electors would secure Al Gore the Oval Office. It’s hard to believe that at least three of these mortals have not cheated on their spouses, cheated on their taxes or sniffed some cocaine here or there. Perhaps their grown children are engaged in behavior they would rather maintain as family secrets. If Beckel can find three such patriots between now and December 18 — when electors vote — who would “put country ahead of party, in the name of national unity,” Al Gore could win the White House after all. As the Journal reported December 8, Florida police were informed of an e-mail to one elector that stated, “We know where you live.”
Three defections would have done the job, and Beckel would have stolen the election for Gore by using very extracurricular means. He’s not one of the “good Democrats.” He’s a snake. I wish Tammy would have clocked him.
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Doriangrey; I appreciate your pragmatism, but the system’s broke, and another hundred years of trying to fix it from within isn’t gonna happen.”Voting your concience”- if acted on by enough people-will affect change.
tomk59 on December 31, 2007 at 3:03 PM
Agreed!
I like a lot of Ron Pauls positions but there are some that really bring out the wierdos.
He is my congressman, so I have voted for him.
TheSitRep on December 31, 2007 at 3:04 PM
Just curious but why are McCain and Rudy options for you but not Mitt, considering Mitt is far and away the more full-spectrum “conservative” between the three?
Patriot33 on December 31, 2007 at 3:09 PM
I disagree. I still believe that the most efficient way to change the system is to work within the system. I admit that I was being petulant when I pulled from the party, but I must also admit, the point I was making was more important than the system to me at the time.
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:09 PM
Just watched a clip of Reagan on YouTube where Sam Donaldson asked him “So Mr. President, you say that the bad economy and interest rates and employment are things that you inherited. Do you take responsibilty for ANYTHING?
Reagan “Oh well of course I do. I used to be a Democrat.”
Classic
broker1 on December 31, 2007 at 3:12 PM
It is a nice thought, but if the donks get in this election, they’ll also take it in 2012, and perhaps past that. With world affairs as they are, a long Dem run could be devastating for this country. Therefore, we need to pre-empt them in 2008.
a capella on December 31, 2007 at 3:13 PM
broker1 on December 31, 2007 at 3:12 PM
Sigh…I miss Ronnie.
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:13 PM
Problem:
It seems most people that enter public life as elected official are dirty when they get elected or are corrupted shortly there after. Our system has evolved at the hand of these self-promoting tools for over 200 year into a system of graft and cronyism. The very changes to system that are needed will not be applied by the cretins currently ensconced in and benefit from the said system.
that is why even the Republicans will go to bat for William Jefferson.
Solutions:
1. Line Item Veto
2. Term Limits
3. True Campaign Finance Reform***
***Corporation, PACs, Unions, etc. are not individuals and should not have the right to use there financial power to sway the system.
TheSitRep on December 31, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Fair enough, tickleddragon. I don’t disagree with the basic point that you and others, such as doriangray,make-although your’e a little too condescending, Dorian- my frustration lies in that unless enough people come around to the idea that the two party system no longer works well on it’s own for this country, than things will never improve. And those who run for major office under a party banner will have absolutely no incentive for change otherwise.
tomk59 on December 31, 2007 at 3:19 PM
Thinking ahead, what will be interesting to see is if McCain continues and Thompson is on his ticket, will that convince some anti-McCain folks that would have otherwise stayed home to hold their nose and sock it in for John?
MT on December 31, 2007 at 3:20 PM
I cant see Thompson accepting VP of anything. Hes in it to win it. And their views are so diametrically opposed I just dont see it happening.
broker1 on December 31, 2007 at 3:24 PM
I can answer that for me, if you like.
If you are referring to a McCain/Thompson ticket. Absolutely not. I’m not rooting for a ticket that will have me wishing abdication the entire 4-8 years.
If you mean Thompson/McCain…sure. The VP is not a big deal.
I know you were looking for some whiff of irony, but I’m afraid I can’t offer it.
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:27 PM
Furthermore, MT…There is literally nothing that John McCain can do to get me to even hold my nose and vote for him. He’s done that much damage, and is that untrustworthy as far as I am concerned.
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:29 PM
Aye, it is indeed broken, I just have not accepted the notion that it irrevocably broken. Perhaps as AP would say I am still in stage 1 denial. I believe passionately in the idea that a single person in the right place at the right time can indeed work miracles. Ronald Reagan taught me this and I believe that it is the single most important thing he taught me and this nation.
At this point in time I believe that Fred Thompson is that single person in the right place at the right time to work a desperately needed miracle in American politics. No he is not the second coming of Ronald Reagan, he is, I believe, a man of profound conservative convictions.
He shares a passionate desire that I likewise have. While at this point in my life I have no children of my own I do have nephews and nieces. Like Fred Thompson my most profound desire is to ensure that they have the opportunity to grow up in a country that is as great or greater than that in which I grew up in.
Someday I do hope to have children of my own. and I want them to have an even better life than I have had. Trust me when I say this, in spite of all the tragic things that have happened to me in my life I believe that I have had up to this point a fantastic and incredibly blessed life.
What I want is for those that come after me to have at the very bare minimum a life as full of promise and potential as mine has been and one even more fulfilling and blessed if at all possible. I do not want them burdened by foolish decisions made by my generation of the generation that preceded me.
The generations that preceded me did some truly wonderful things and they did some things that we should all be ashamed of. Just as my generation is in the very process of doing. I want to be a part of that part of my generation that does things that will be considered truly wonderful by those that follow, not the things that they will be ashamed that we did.
I think Fred is the man who will do these things. And I hope that he is the man to prove that while the system is broken, it is not so broken that it cannot be fixed from within.
doriangrey on December 31, 2007 at 3:29 PM
oh…but the question was a good one! :)
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:29 PM
Thanks for the response,Dorian. It was excellent. I guess I’m where Bryan is at this point; I’m much more sure of who I will not vote for than who I will. For what it’s worth, Fred is still on my short list of people I’d seriously consider voting for.
tomk59 on December 31, 2007 at 3:34 PM
The problem is that I have looked long and hard at multi-party systems and they make our two party system, corrupt as it has become, look almost like paradise in comparison. I have been dreading for some years now another American civil war and it is this dread that keeps me struggling to work within the system to correct the system.
I absolutly 100 percent agree.
doriangrey on December 31, 2007 at 3:36 PM
And that my friend is all a truly patriotic America could ask of a fellow American. Keep an open mind weigh the candidate carefully and make your choice according to your conscience and what you believe will be best for America.
doriangrey on December 31, 2007 at 3:39 PM
I have a question for you Fredheads before I take my afternoon beauty rest (boy do I need it!) ;-)
Did Fred’s entrance into the race force the other candidates to move towards more conservative positions? I know what I think, but before I say what it is, I’d like to know what you guys think.
csdeven on December 31, 2007 at 3:42 PM
Enjoyed the hell out of this thread,all. Gotta run, got some serious partying to get ready for. A very safe and Happy New Year to all of you, and we’ll bang heads again next year.
tomk59 on December 31, 2007 at 3:42 PM
I sure hope Thompson pulls a strong showing, but if he does fade – and if McCain hangs in there with his own strong showing – then I’m thinking there is a decent chance of McCain pulling his old friend (apparently) Thompson onto the ticket as VP. Regardless of who’s on the top of the ticket though, that may actually be a good place for Thompson to be given the fire-in-the-belly concern.
Anyway, I pray that Thompson surprises. I’m with you doriangrey.
MT on December 31, 2007 at 3:47 PM
tomk59 on December 31, 2007 at 3:42 PM
To you too, Tom!
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:49 PM
MT on December 31, 2007 at 3:47 PM
If that happens, I’ll watch bemused from the sidelines. It will be interesting to watch, but only if watched without emotional investment.
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 3:50 PM
Slublog on December 31, 2007 at 1:13 PM
When in Rome, speak to the Romans.
maverick muse on December 31, 2007 at 3:59 PM
Sorry cs, there isn’t enough beauty rest left in the time allotted to the universe to save you… ;P
On a more serious note, yes I think that pretty much goes without saying. It is in fact the basis of my original support for Fred. Not that he would win the nomination or the election, but that he would force the republican candidates to gravitate back to their conservative roots.
That he is doing as well as he is is a bonus. I have gone from hoping that Fred would be a party modifier, to believing that he has a genuine chance of winning and in doing so dramatically re-shifting the republican party back to being a genuinely conservative party.
doriangrey on December 31, 2007 at 4:00 PM
And who will those folks support if Fred drops out?
Personally? I’ll support a Democratic takeover of the White House in 2008 if Fred drops out. This is because, simply put, the remaining candidates for the GOP nomination are bags of crap who are entirely undeserving of my vote.
I’m not a “Fred is the only man who can save America!” lunatic. It’s simply my considered view that the GOP field, with one exception, sucks the wet hamster. If that one exception is forced out of the race, then I’m rooting for a 1964-level rout for the GOP that’ll force the party to pull its head back out, and marginalize the kooks (Paul), the God-botherers (Huckabee), the RINOs (McCain), and the flip-flopping, say-anything-to-get-elected douchebags (Romney).
Centerfire on December 31, 2007 at 4:20 PM
It’s a catch-all, all right. Mostly from those who can’t argue against his positions. It’s a lot like sticking your tongue out because you have nothing substantiall left to say.
jdawg on December 31, 2007 at 4:33 PM
Since Fred is the ONLY conservative in the race, you will pardon us as we hold out hope that he mounts a come-back! I’m really REALLY getting tired of the elites telling me who I should and shouldn’t vote for!
sabbott on December 31, 2007 at 4:39 PM
I don’t know what it means, but I’m laughing my a$$ off. Thanks, Centerfire!
ROFLMAO
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 4:40 PM
Dour is AP. The primaries are loose this year on both sides. While Silky, Hillary!, and Obama not Osama bash each other through surrogates, there’s a chance for a real conservative candidate to emerge. I see no panic in the Repub side yet.
Except for Huck, Paul and McCain, I can see pretty much any major Republican candidate winning 11 months from now, and it’s no secret that the Hillary! machine was afraid of Fred. People ultimately tend to vote for who they think can win in a high-stakes election. A strong third in Iowa and an honest poll is all it will take for Fred! to be taken seriously.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it — at least until February — but I’m not going to go to stage 2 whatever happens.
Aardvark on December 31, 2007 at 4:42 PM
You should probably come right and say what you mean. All this politically correct sensitivity is obscuring your meaning.
Tell us how you really feel.
Professor Blather on December 31, 2007 at 4:43 PM
YES! they seem to talk a better anti-illegal immigrant game now. As for other issues, no, your typical candidate has to always walk that ” I want to please all the people all the time” line.
Fred does not walk that line, he is simply Fred.
No kissin’ the medias ass, no pandering, no beggin’ no funny hats, just the Constitution and conservativism.
TheSitRep on December 31, 2007 at 4:44 PM
I love it when folks start making predictions about who’s in and who’s out before the first primary vote is cast. All the more crow to be eaten come November. McCain was supposedly dead as a doornail for months, no?
Geraghty’s ostensible takedown of Giuliani’s Florida Strategy seemed pretty weak to me too. As far as I’m concerned, Iowa is just a press sponsored boondoggle which for some unfathomable reason folks otherwise in their right minds insist on taking seriously. They don’t even select their actual delegates till next spring, so all we’re really watching is one humongously expensive straw poll of folks who are lucky enough to get off work for the occasion, conducted in a state that thinks we should run the nation on ethanol. The sooner we can put those caucus’s out of their putative bellweather existence, the better.
JM Hanes on December 31, 2007 at 4:47 PM
I just hope this colloquialism has nothing to do with Richard Gere.
TheSitRep on December 31, 2007 at 4:48 PM
Indeed!
Hey Aardvark, did you ever go back and look at my answer to your comment on the FREAKS quote. You completely misunderstood me.
tickleddragon on December 31, 2007 at 5:04 PM
Per the “We Pick, You Click” lineup, Hitchens adds the bells & whistles: The Iowa Scam.
JM Hanes on December 31, 2007 at 5:31 PM
See-Dub IS correct! The Thompson doesn’t want line it is BS!
Gatordoug on December 31, 2007 at 6:10 PM
I ran into this with my cousin at Christmas. I was talking about who I didn’t like, and she ask well who do you like then? You can’t possibly like Thompson. I asked why not and she said because he has no chance. Ironically she wants the Breck Girl, talk about someone who doesn’t have a chance.
Gianni on December 31, 2007 at 6:41 PM
Maybe he should get off his ass and raise some money, then?
See-Dub went nuclear because even he knows Fred is dead. It isn’t about “fire in the belly” or some stupid crap, its because Fred SUCKS at campaigning. He can’t raise money, which means he can’t win.
He really doesn’t want the Presidency. Nobody cares about what Dobson or whoever the hell it was said, including Fred. Fred isn’t willing to fight for it.
Fred Thompson is a cheerleader conservative, he’s a benchwarmer for real conservatives. He does all the hurrahs and jumps when the team wins, but action is anathema to him. Fred Thompson doesn’t want to work at it, so he’s useless. He’s had more chances than anyone else in the race, and he’s blown them all. Fred is a born loser.
BKennedy on December 31, 2007 at 6:47 PM
Hey, wasn’t George Washington reluctant to take the job? And at least one election winner before Lincoln, whose name escapes me at the moment, initially refuse to serve?
By now there are a gazillion comments, and I wish I had time to go through them all. But it seems to me this is another example of the MSM latching onto a statement out of context, and running away with it just to kill a few more hours of air time, as well as make excuses for not giving the Thompson campaign more coverage. After all, the “one size fits all” candidates like Romney and McCain and Guiliani are more palatable, with a dash of Huckabee for comic relief. That pretty much sums up MSM coverage of the GOP nominees.
Senator Thompson has explained why he is running, and whatever others perceive as a lack of enthusiasm, he’s running anyway, isn’t he? That’s good enough for me.
And in case I don’t get a chance again, Happy New Year to the entire cast of characters here at HA.
manwithblackhat on December 31, 2007 at 6:54 PM
As far as I’m concerned he climbed that mountain long ago and all that is left for him to do is please jump off. If he wants a push I’d be glad to oblige him.
FloatingRock on December 31, 2007 at 7:07 PM
Who’s to say he didn’t turn some.
Speakup on December 31, 2007 at 7:16 PM
Bob Beckel is one of those Dems who can charm the fools
and cut thier throats while doing it. He’s worse than a snake.
Texyank on December 31, 2007 at 8:39 PM
Yeah, successful lawyer and lobbyist, US Senator, beautiful wife and children, he’s a real born loser.
See, over time, I’ve noted that csdeven can be engaged civilly in Fred conversation. You and tommylotto, on the other hand, seem unable to go three posts without either insulting his supporters, or using general insults against Fred that get way out of hand, primarily because your criticisms are continually vapid. Bad campaigner. Whoopee. How about his policy positions? How about his history? How about comparison to other candidates? It keeps coming back to the same two points for you and TL: The batch of debated allegations regarding terrorist defense etc., and his lack of executive experience (something applied to the frontrunner on the left, if you hadn’t noticed). Flip-flopping? Conservative conflicts? Nope.
If there is a loser, it is your argument. You recite it like dogma. Add fascism, corporatism, and military-industrial complex and you’re essentially Ronulans. Oh, shoot, that’s supposed to be US, isn’t it? It’s US because…um…oh yeah, we don’t buy your repetitious sound bytes, and we support somebody who isn’t drooling to take the highest office in the land.
MadisonConservative on December 31, 2007 at 9:03 PM
You are on track. The MSM, which includes Murdoch these days, has decided to act as if Fred is unreal, and Huck is a real possibility. Fred will be discussed past tense, and Huck future tense. For the left, Huck is beatable. For the puppet master right, Huck is the RHINO in Bush clothing they need to continue the program.
And the truth be, despite the power of small donors, the final candidates float on a sea of bigger donations from the regulars who all want their wheels greased in return.
That group whoever they be, are the chopped livers who helped poison my cats with melamine laced cat food and want to keep shoving Chinese laced product into the food chain
Be it cat food or shamnesty, these guys still feel impregnable and apparently do not find Fred to be sufficiently useful.
This despite the mystery clocking Fred took during the Clinton impeachment
entagor on December 31, 2007 at 9:37 PM
I’m sorry that Fred drove his own campaign into the ground MadisonConservative. I’m sorry he can’t raise any money for crap, never used his initial buzz to his advantage, and now has to whine and beg for money to run his failed campaign.
Fred won a Senate office in Tennessee against a bad dem candidate, lawyers come a dime a dozen and lobbyists of Fred’s kind are among the lowest of life forms. Fred married a woman who loves fame, notoriety, and money, big surprise!
But as far as running a campaign? Fred’s a loser, and he’s the one to blame. Deal with it MadisonConservative. The only one to blame for Fred’s failure is Fred himself.
BKennedy on December 31, 2007 at 9:39 PM
the same stage as that ferret lover.
jgapinoy on December 31, 2007 at 9:42 PM
>I’m sorry that Fred drove his own campaign into the ground MadisonConservative. I’m sorry he can’t raise any money for crap, never used his initial buzz to his advantage, and now has to whine and beg for money to run his failed campaign.
Me? I’m just sorry the remainder of the GOP field, including your boy Romney, is so mind-bendingly horrible.
Can’t wait for you guys to drive the GOP over the cliff! Can’t wait for you to be relegated to the political margins, like you deserve!
Centerfire on December 31, 2007 at 11:26 PM
I’m gonna be nice and civil here a second. BKennedy has a point.
It’s one thing to say Fred doesn’t want it, or that he lacks this mystical, unmeasurable quality of FiTB that only the Punditary class is mystically unable to discern.
It’s another thing to say that Fred hasn’t run a good campaign and capitalized on his natural advantages. A lot of his problems now are self-inflicted, I can’t deny. I’m not a Ronulan thinking that my guy’s gonna fix the whole world; I’m quite willing to admit that in retrospect, there have been some bad decisions made in rolling out the Fred campaign.
Against that, I’ll insist that campaigning is different from running the country (as the Clintons quickly discovered). And I still think that his heart and his mind are in the right place to lead the country. Even his errors and his squeeze plays–the current 17 minute youtube video among them–shows that he still believes in conservative principles and that’s what he’s falling back on to try to win. Maybe that’s naive, but it’s awfully inspiring.
I don’t think the Fred campaign is dead; after all, McCain won New Hampshire in 2000 and he’s not president yet. He’s hurting, and he’s behind, and he has a lot of catching up to do.
All the same, I think it’s worth investing the time and whatever credibility I have in the blogosphere to see is campaign get back on its feet and keep advocating conservative principles in the forefront in this election. Even Fredhater CSDeven has intimated that the other candidates have hewed to the conservative line a little more after the entrance of Teh Fred!
Look: I’ll admit that I like Romney a lot more after this election season than I did when it started. You guys can admit the same about Fred.
And you can also admit that there would be far worse Presidents.
see-dubya on December 31, 2007 at 11:47 PM
I’m sorry you place the ability to make commercials and sound bytes over positions on issues. I’m sorry you are stooping so low as to question the guy’s motives in marrying his wife because you are looking for something to hit him for. I’m sorry that you fail to realize how many lawyers on both sides of the scale are running for president, and how many have in the past.
Most of all, I’m sorry that some Americans have sunk to the point where because Obama has good looks and a nice and is more “energetic” in making commercials, that people consider him worthy of the highest office in the land. And I’m sorry that the primary quality considered of the leader of the free world is how well he advertises like a high school popularity contest.
I’m done with people like you. Like I said, even csdeven makes compelling arguments about Fred’s flaws in his history. You’re a media junkie. Deal with it.
MadisonConservative on January 1, 2008 at 2:26 AM
Beckel, remember Tammy is a feminist with a gun.
MSGTAS on January 1, 2008 at 9:40 AM
I understand. I don’t have nearly the problem with him as I do with some of his more “enthusiastic” supporters here.(wink) They could certainly cause a person to rethink.
a capella on January 1, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Clinton, Giuliani, Obama, Huckabee, Edwards, Hunter, Biden, McCain, Richardson, Paul, Kucinich, Romney, Dodd, Thompson.
What is so darned embarrassing is that one of these people will be the next president of what once was (and possibly still is)the greatest nation on Earth.
I used to complain about not having enough choices. Now the truth seeps through. It’s quality, not quantity we’re short on. Maybe our problem is that our system pretty much limits our choices to politicians and politicians are always needing money which curries favors which leads to corruption. This is human nature and is always true, it only differs in degree. (Huckabee may have been a preacher but that only means that he’s had more experience at the game)
Ernest on January 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I’m done with people like you, who believe Saint Frederick the Thompson can do no wrong, that he hasn’t poisoned the well of his own campaign, and that it isn’t about “drooling over becoming president” it’s about “raising money so that you actually compete in the first place.”
You’re an insufferable Fredhead who ignores reality in favor of worshiping the avatar of perfection you’ve built Fred into. Deal with it. I don’t care about 30 second soundbites MC, fact is Fred has no money. If Fred has no money, he can’t even make 30 second soundbites.
You’re just another reason the blogosphere isn’t really taken seriously. Whenever your man is down “it’s the dinosaur media! It’s a right wing elite conspiracy! It’s The Creeper!” It’s like liberalism: blame society for everyone’s problems, never attrubute failure to yourself (or Fred’s failure to Fred) because there must be some other reason for it.
BKennedy on January 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM
You might want to avoid saying I believe he can do no wrong, talking about me “worshipping perfection”, or claiming I blame Fred for nothing, right after quoting me saying:
Nice job of spin, though.
MadisonConservative on January 1, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Fred is like a high school drop out, we can all sit around and have a drink and say remember the “potential”.
“she would be beautiful if she lost some weight”
“he had so much potential, too bad he had to drop out of school”
“if only she hadn’t got pregnant”
“if only he hadn’t injured his knee”
“I would have passed the test if I didn’t have the flu”
“I have other responsibilities”
Always an excuse…yeah we can toast Fred’s potential, if only he would have….
right2bright on January 2, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Let’s realize who Tammy Bruce is:
(1) a homosexual, and
(2) pro choice
Doesn’t everyone know that already? No!
Would she really come out in support for a Reagan conservative? No!
Captain America on January 2, 2008 at 2:57 PM
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