Excuse me, but most of you obviously have not taken the time to study the immigration legislation for which John McCain sought passage. I realize that most of you are not lawyers who are trained to study a piece of legislation, but if you don’t, you end up making glib statements that you think are true, but are not true at all and indeed wide of the mark.

The truth is that John McCain never did support amnesty. It is NOT denial on his part to say so; it was what he was saying during the debate over the immigration bill. The immigraiton bill for which he sought passage was not on its face amnesty and would not be amensty IF the law enforcement provisions were enforced
Phil Byler on December 30, 2007 at 7:24 PM

I guess you think I wouldn’t read the bill, not even for $50 an hour

Thanks for the good conversation! ‘See’ you tomorrow.

Thanks Baldilocks. Happy New Year.

McCain has granite stones the size of the Queen Mary to try and pull this one off. And this beloved co-author of the McCain-Feingold abomination would probably love to find some way for all evidence of his loose association with the truth to become illegal.

The basis of American culture should be static. Foreigners or their children may change the peripherals of it but why would they want to change the foundation? I think the foundation has more to fear from people like McCain.

Thanks for the good conversation! ‘See’ you tomorrow.

And that’s why I’m not voting for him.

Thanks for the insight. I agree that no one should vote McCain into office primarily because of his military service.

I’ve observed many cultures in the United States. I’ve lived in New York City for the past 20 years and constantly see them pushing against one another, morphing over the years and sometimes over generations.

The original comment I responded to, or at least the meme that I reacted to was an equivalence between fighting a war against Germany and fighting against an invasion from Mexico. One point I made was that Germany wasn’t logistically able to invade and occupy us–but that historical question wasn’t the issue. The point at question, I gather, is whether we are being invaded.

I can’t speak for the SouthWest, which has a specific problem with a Mexican culture that has transported itself across the border. In New York City, it isn’t a significant problem–perhaps because there is an ocean or continent to cross and no single foreign culture is dominant.

Cultures are different, and some are better than others, but I don’t think the American culture is static. The culture that WWII veterans fought for has changed, not, primarily, because foreigners changed it but because their children and grandchildren did.

dedalus on December 30, 2007 at 10:35 PM

McCain’s family clearly has an admirable tradition of military service. This tradition has not the slightest bit of bearing on the senator’s honesty with regard to his stance on amnesty illegal immigration. His good lineage, his other good works and his sacrifice do not confer a get-out-of-the-dog-house-free card upon him with regard to this matter.

Heck, I’m a GI also but that doesn’t entitle him to my aggreement with his opinion and/or my vote any more than Obama is entitled to same because our fathers are from the same tribe. If McCain’s full it, his campaign suffer for it.

dedalus on December 30, 2007 at 10:39 PM

All that stuff about consumption and “world culture” is interesting, but irrelevant to the point of the original comment to which you were responding. Short point: since our WWII victory, the USA has built a culture, but various methods have been used and are being used to dilute it. One of those is the laxity of illegal immigration enforcement and its progeny, the allowance of Spanish to contend with English’s dominion (in schools, in the workplace). Some of us want it stopped and know that it can be easily stopped. The John McCains of the country know this also, but for some reason(s) they’re doing the exact opposite (I have some ideas about that) and McCain himself is trying to BS the public.

And that’s why I’m not voting for him.

McCain takes a play out of the Clinton’s Play book.

Hat tip Hot Air
Popularity: unranked [?]……

Okay, then. If Hunter does not get the nomination, then I will sure as hell be voting for McCain, who is — I grant you — a sonofabitch.

However, after eight long years’ of the current Administration’s ham-handed, incompetent, do-goodiness about the “Religion of Peace,” and “our friends” in China, we could use a sonofabitch in the White House who knows how to handle certifiably evil leaders as found in places like Iran, North Korea, China, and Russia.

The issue at hand, however, is whose culture will be dominant in this society.

We agree on the English language being essential. I’m also against bi-lingual education–rather have immigrants immersed in school.

I do think America has the dominant world culture and is doing more to change other cultures–both abroad and with immigrants who come here.

You and I could argue over what the American culture is. Perhaps, lately, it has been about individuals and groups consuming products that the media creates a need for. In that regard, the world is racing to become like us.

baldilocks on December 30, 2007 at 10:16 PM

Thanks for the careful reading. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

My point in that reply was that McCain’s father fought in the Navy in WWII and then McCain followed in Vietnam. When America has been in need, there have been several generations of McCain’s family who have risked their lives. It is hard to describe him as having contempt for America, as some earlier posts had stated.

McCain took a shot as a Senator at a compromise bill to address the illegal problem in the country. If the bill was ultimately flawed, it isn’t because McCain doesn’t care for American values.

Amnesty is forgiveness for past misdeeds – no fine, no jail time, BUT you don’t get to keep breaking the law, and you most certainly do not get to keep any ill-gotten goods.

I am all for amnesty for illegal aliens now in this country – I don’t want them in jail on my dime, I don’t need to fine them, but I want them GONE! They do NOT get to keep their ill-gotten goods – presence in this country.

If they promise to leave immediately, I will be happy to give them amnesty. After checking for ID theft and many other crimes, of course.

McCain is correct – he proposed small fines, etc., so the illegal aliens would not technically be getting amnesty.

But McCain/Bush/Kennedy et al are worse – they proposed REWARDING illegal aliens with either allowing them to stay in our country, or one-day touchback, or Z visa, “pathway to citizenship”, or other crapola.

Amnesty fine – but NO REWARDS! And DLTDHYITAOYWO.

My previous post was a response to another post.

dedalus on December 30, 2007 at 10:04 PM

You mean this one?

If John McCain had been successful, your grand children would be speaking spanish & adopting a 3rd world culture when only a generation before him, real partiots stopped him from having to speak german.

Yes, I know. As a matter of fact it was the reason that I responded the way I did. I try to follow the thread of a conversation; I hope that you do also.

baldilocks on December 30, 2007 at 9:44 PM

I agree with much of what you say. My previous post was a response to another post. I think it is essential that new immigrants learn English. It is, and should be, a requirement to become naturalized.

You’d force them to give up their land, job, life, etc. And return where? Their home country probably even wouldn’t want them back. You gotta be a little practical here, i think.

If they have children; they are American citizens. Certainly, their country wouldn’t accept them as citizens.

lorien1973 on December 30, 2007 at 7:31 PM

From a Reuters article on the “self-deportation” of illegal immigrants from states which have passed tough employment laws:

Mexican consular sources in Phoenix say they are seeing a spike in the number of immigrants applying for Mexican citizenship for their U.S.-born children, which will allow them to enroll in schools in Mexico.

They are also seeing a rise in requests for papers enabling families to carry household belongings back to Mexico, free of import duties.

Members of the Brazilian community in the U.S. northeast, meanwhile, say they are starting to see an increase in the number of illegal immigrants heading back to their homes in Brazil in recent months.

“They are beginning to put in the balance the constant fear of being detained and deported, and many are deciding to leave,” said Fausto Mendes da Rocha, executive director of the Brazilian Immigrant Center in Boston.

Others are moving to states which don’t have such laws–like California.

So, it was either B.J. or John is senile.