Exit questions for you:

How many planets are in the universe?
where is the center of the universe?
When will the universe end?

unseen on December 23, 2007 at 7:42 PM

About 4 Trillion.
There is no center, The Universe is expanding everywhere equally.
Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Speakup on December 23, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Wha? Where exactly is Heaven?

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 5:58 PM

I was deposing Pascal’s wager, which is a horrible debate subject and I really would rather get past such a base premise.

If I get a chance I might pick the book up. I like stuff like that. Thanks for the suggestion.

unseen on December 23, 2007 at 7:27 PM

Then you will enjoy this book. Pretty deep. But clear.

http://www.amazon.com/Contemporary-Perspectives-Religious-Epistemology-Douglas/dp/0195073231/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198462398&sr=8-1

Contemporary Perspectives on Religious Epistemology (Hardcover)
by R. Douglas Geivett (Author)

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 12:36 PM
Exit question two. Where does God reside?

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 1:30 PM

Wha? Where exactly is Heaven?

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 5:58 PM

You left out the most important question. What is God.

those are questions you must find the answers for yourself. Or if you think it’s a waste of ones time then don’t bother.

Exit questions for you:

How many planets are in the universe?
where is the center of the universe?
When will the universe end?

Go for it. Good luck.

MB4 on December 23, 2007 at 1:50 PM

You have 100% certainity in your belief. That’s great. The problem is that no matter if you have 100% certainity in your belief or if you have 10% certainity in what your saying…You do not Know. So with every post you show that you are as fundenmental in your belief as a Christian or a Muslim is in theirs. So you prove that Fundemental atheistism is possible. what’s the word for someone that believes they know something that is unknowable? I think it is called faith. So you show great faith in your belief without being able to know if you are correct or incorrect.

Sure do seem to be a lot of attacks against those who wish to pray or otherwise invoke God. Can’t even say “Merry Christmas” without someone getting on your case.

Celebrate diversity. Hah! Since when can Christians openly and without litigation worry freely celebrate their heritage? “Holiday tree” “Winter concerts”

It’s like feminism tearing down men to promote women. You don’t need to tear down Christianity to promote your own faith or lack there of.

So basically what he is saying is: We don’t know what we don’t know? Right?

If I get a chance I might pick the book up. I like stuff like that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Exit question.
Where did god come from?

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 12:36 PM

No there is not a 50/50 chance of that happening. You do not have a variable that is fixed. For instance in the stock market you have a 33.3% of being right because the stock can either go up, go down or stay the same price. Those are the three variables you have. In death you have two variables. You either have nothing or sometype of afterlive. Therefore you have a 50/50 chance of being right regardless of what you pick.

MB4 on December 23, 2007 at 1:09 PM

and you know that how? You may think that and you may believe that and you maybe right but that is different than knowing that is what happens.

Speakup on December 23, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Wha? Where exactly is Heaven?

Pascal’s wager is for one man and his beliefs. A jew has a 50/50 chance of being right as well as a Christian as well as a Muslim as well as an Atheist as well as a Buddist.

I should think an omnipotent God would certainly know the difference and anyone who in life was a 50/50 believer would likely have a 100% chance of not living an eternity along side God in heaven.

With all due respect, the problem with the above is that the Apostle Paul himself disagrees with you.

ColtsFan on December 23, 2007 at 4:09 AM

Pascal’s wager is for one man and his beliefs. A jew has a 50/50 chance of being right as well as a Christian as well as a Muslim as well as an Atheist as well as a Buddist. Of course if Christ never arose than all the Christian faith is futile. Since Paul was a Christian he would reject the wager because his faith was absolute and he would teach the Gospel the same way.

unseen on December 23, 2007 at 4:48 AM

Thanks for your response.

Here is my 2 cents.

I highly recommend the following book by Christian philosopher John S. Feinberg entitled:

“The Many Faces of Evil.”

http://www.amazon.com/Many-Faces-Evil-Theological-Problems/dp/1581345674/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198445586&sr=1-1

In that book, Dr. Feinberg argues that all probability arguments rely on very questionable and faulty variables involving vague notions of subjectivity.

I find Dr. Feinberg’s line of reasoning cogent, and sound.

My point is:

if all probability arguments, especially the probabilistic Problem of Evil argument offered by the atheists, do not work, then that entails that all hypothetical probabilistic arguments in favor of Christianity are invalid as well.

Exit question two. Where does God reside?

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 1:30 PM

Well since we know that God didn’t have a mom or dad, we know that he is not still living with his parents anyway.

That should narrow the search area down a little bit.

Exit question.
Where did god come from?

ronsfi on December 23, 2007 at 12:36 PM

From his mom?

No, that’s right God didn’t have a mom. Or a dad. Maybe that’s why he is so spoiled and mad so much of the time. Lack of parental oversight.

If however I’m right and your wrong then the possibilites of different outcomes arise.

unseen on December 23, 2007 at 3:59 AM

Bet on Dennis Kucinich becoming President with Britteny Spears as his VP then. It is a lot less of a long shot to put it mildly. You could get real good odds and get very rich.

Go for it. Good luck.

I know of not one human that knows what happens after death occurs.

unseen on December 23, 2007 at 3:59 AM

Not a whole lot happens. Mostly you just decompose. That’s about it.

unseen on December 23, 2007 at 12:09 PM

Herikutsu on December 22, 2007 at 12:59 AM

Then by that reasoning, there is a 50/50 chance that monkeys will will fly out of my butt in the next 5 minutes. Either they will, or they won’t right?

Exit question.
Where did god come from?

Yes I understadn the Atheist’s arguement but I also understand precentages. No matter how many times you slice it and dice it, there is a 50/50 chance of an after life. Either it exists or it doesn’t. A 50/50 chance you are right or wrong it that wager. You are confusing the side bets with the main wager. Once you place you wager on the outcome you can than place addtional side bets on what that afterlife is and how to get there, if he sent his Son down to wash away our sins, if he has 72 virgins waiting for us, etc etc with each addtional bet based on knowledge, history, ritual you can either decrease or increase your precentage but you started off with a 50/50 chance.

futhermore, no matter what religion you choose, no matter what sect, what God you pray to you have a net 50/50 chance of being right with the choice you have made. You as an individual has a 50/50 chance of being right or wrong and thus the reason that a fundementalist be he Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist can not be shaken for her beleif because to them it IS black/white with no gray.

but just because it may be logical for us to believe that we’ll live forever (at least in spirit) once we die does not mean it is true.

Nonfactor on December 23, 2007 at 6:07 AM

And since it IS logical for us to believe in an afterlive it also means that it might be true. Thus one of the basic arguments of atheistism (that it is illogical and shows a lack of education to believe in an after life) is proven false.

Since Atheism is not a religion and simply means “not believing in God”, it has no other doctrines to be fundamentalist about.

What this guy is talking about is “political correctness”.

uptight on December 22, 2007 at 10:45 PM

Good point.

In his Christmas message, he said: “Any kind of fundamentalism, be it Biblical, atheistic or Islamic, is dangerous.

That’s just plain dumb. It’s not the fundamentalist approach to a dogma that’s dangerous, but the bigotry, fanaticism, hatred, oppression, and such that may (or may not) accompany it. Or the danger may be in the dogma itself. But to spin fundamentalism per se as dangerous is a corruption of the concept of fundamentalism.
Morgan so much as acknowledges this later in the article by granting the word ‘fundamentalism’ a new meaning:

Dr Morgan said: “All of this is what I would call the new “fundamentalism” of our age. It allows no room for disagreement, for doubt, for debate, for discussion.

Morgan’s new formulation of fundamentalism injects the attributes of intolerance or bigotry.
And this, of course was an irresistible invitation to the BBC to advance its own agenda (atheistic bigotry) by coloring the entire article, indeed the universe of fundamentalists, with this lead:

The Archbishop of Wales, Dr Barry Morgan, has described a rise in “fundamentalism” as one of the great problems facing the world.

Hmmm, nice job, BBC.

At risk with bigotry, atheistic or otherwise, is the loss of individual liberty (starting with free speech, freedom of religious expression) and the deconstruction of a free society (starting with a willful disregard for inconvenient veracity).