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Huck the Baptist

posted at 11:30 am on December 21, 2007 by Bryan
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When you’re running for the GOP presidential nomination and you’re attracting criticism from conservatives Bob Novak and Peggy Noonan while attracting accolades from liberal E.J. Dionne, you have a problem. When the conservative blogosphere that’s hungering for an authentic conservative to rally around doesn’t rally around you, you have a problem. And the problem isn’t that the GOP establishment hates your religion. The problem isn’t that the conservative blogosphere hates your religion. The problem is that your policy history is outside the GOP mainstream and your instincts have turned out on close inspection to be problematic.

Speaking for myself, I’m a Southern Baptist who remembers a fairly bitter intra-denominational fight that occurred during the 1980s. I was in one of the conservative churches, and that’s where I try to stay these days. According to Novak, Huckabee was on the other side in that fight.

The warmth in Texas and hostility in California reflects the dual personality of the pastor-politician who has broken out of the presidential campaign’s second tier. Huckabee can come across as either a Reagan or a Nixon. More than personality explains why not all his Baptist brethren have signed on the dotted line for Huckabee. He did not join the “conservative resurgence” that successfully rebelled against liberals in the Southern Baptist Convention a generation ago.

The liberals at that time (they actually called themselves “moderates”) wanted to take the Southern Baptist Convention in the direction of the mainline churches that were a) renouncing basic doctrine and b) no longer growing. The liberals lost that fight and the SBC has remained doctrinally conservative ever since. If they had won, the SBC today would sound much more like the Archbishop of Canterbury than it does, and that wouldn’t be good. Our churches would be ineffective and mostly empty, instead of the SBC being the largest and most vibrant of the Protestant denominations. To the extent that Huckabee was involved in that argument, he was on the side of those who favored the expediency of “modernizing” the SBC’s core doctrines over the principle of sticking to established beliefs. He was on the wrong side.

That’s all too much inside baseball if you’re not in the SBC, but I tossed it out there just to note that, speaking for myself, I don’t oppose Huckabee’s religion at all. He and I belong to the same denomination. I do oppose his history and politics now, though, and I think he has what is basically a liberal’s worldview when it comes to the government’s role in private life. His admission that he’s not familiar with the 40-odd year hostility between the US and Cuba was a tell that he’s very inexperienced on foreign policy. Whatever you think of the embargo, knowing that the US and Cuba aren’t friends is Foreign Policy 101, and Huck chucked on that. And contrast Huckabee’s know-nothing response with Fred Thompson’s great response to Michael Moore regarding Cuba’s health care system. Fred had obviously thought about Cuba policy for a quite a while. Huckabee obviously hadn’t.

Huckabee also favors nanny state policies. I don’t trust government power. Huckabee does. His support for a national smoking ban was the tip-off to me that he trusts government power much more than I do, and his history on immigration and clemencies suggests that he’ll put his religious thinking above his duties to carry out the laws of the land. That’s a problem. And it really is a problem that’s unique to him in this race at this point. I don’t see the same problem with anyone else in the race, though I do see problems with all of the other candidates.

Some of this history is beyond Huckabee’s ability to influence. I’ve thought about this quite a bit since Huckabee’s rise because I was naturally predisposed to like him and support him. Like him I do; support him I don’t. The fact is, of the past five presidents (which happen to be the ones I remember), three have described themselves as evangelicals, and two of those three (Carter and Clinton) have described themselves as Southern Baptists. Those two were in my opinion the worst two (and obviously in Clinton’s case, the faith was more of convenience than anything else). Carter was self-righteous and a terrible leader, and has become a terrible human being since the voters rejected him in 1980. Clinton was irresponsible and much more interested in posing than doing, and he happened to be a shameless liar. Bush 43 has taken the domestic side of the GOP in directions that Huckabee would extend, not retract, and that’s not good for the health of the country or the party. Bush 41 wasn’t overtly religious, and also wasn’t terribly consequential. Good man, led a valiant effort in the Gulf in 1991, didn’t screw up other things too badly but he raised taxes and that killed him. The best of the five was inarguably Reagan, and he was neither evangelical nor particularly religious. He believed, of that I have no doubt. He just didn’t make a big show of it. And all he did was resurrect flagging American national pride, unleash our economic power, bring down the Soviet Union and so on and so forth.

While I would prefer that a president share my faith, it’s not a make or break issue with me. I look at issues, I look at history, I look at instincts and I look for little tells like that national smoking ban (or in Rudy’s case, for instance, the tendency to personal scandal, or in Romney’s case, the tendency to flip-flop, with McCain it’s a whole bunch of stuff, and don’t get me started on Paul). I look at faith plus other things, and it’s the other things about Huckabee that I can’t get past. It’s not so much any one policy as the instincts that I see in him that I find troubling. It’s certainly not his religion. I’m fine with the Christmas ad and I’m fine with his faith. I’m just not fine with him.


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When you’re running for the GOP presidential nomination and you’re attracting criticism from conservatives Bob Novak and Peggy Noonan while attracting accolades from liberal E.J. Dionne, you have a problem. When the conservative blogosphere that’s hungering for an authentic conservative to rally around doesn’t rally around you, you have a problem.

Does he? If he does, it hasn’t shown yet. I made the same point yesterday with regard to the Rush situation. How many voters care what Bob Novak or Peggy Noonan think? I don’t think we know the answer to that question, but I’m guessing it’s not that many.

Hey, I’d love it if Hot Air and other blogs had some influence, but right now I don’t see any evidence of it with regard to Huckabee.

Hate to be a downer here, but tell me where I’m wrong.

freakagriep on December 21, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Good interview here: Ed Rollins: Huckabee Will Win Iowa. Rollins talks about why he thinks the Republican elites are attacking Huck.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:36 AM

I’m fine with the Christmas ad and I’m fine with his faith. I’m just not fine with him.

My feelings exactly. I don’t quite understand the popular argument (at least I’ve gotten) from many of his supporters, that it’s an anti-Christian or anti-evangelical thing. Fact is, many (if not most) who oppose him are Christian. Others who oppose him are evangelical.

amerpundit on December 21, 2007 at 11:37 AM

When the conservative blogosphere that’s hungering for an authentic conservative to rally around doesn’t rally around you, you have a problem.

I’ve been thinking of this lately: What makes an authentic conservative? Would Christ be considered an authentic conservative today?

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:37 AM

Hey, I’d love it if Hot Air and other blogs had some influence, but right now I don’t see any evidence of it with regard to Huckabee.

Blogs have no influence.

Allahpundit on December 21, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Bryan:
Your first paragraph is spot-on, 1000% absolutely PERFECT.

They reflect my feelings as well; its not enough to hide behind a cross and a church when your policy positions are either mega Liberal (domestic) or hopelessly naive and sophomoric (foreign).

Its not that Huck is an Evangelical, its that he is using his Evangelicism to HIDE the Liberal Nonentity beneath.

Always Right on December 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

How can this be your opinion? After all, if one dislikes Huckster or Romney it can only be because of their respective religions. At least that’s what they’ve been implying, and they wouldn’t mislead us, now would they?

Hollowpoint on December 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

They reflect my feelings as well; its not enough to hide behind a cross and a church when your policy positions are either mega Liberal (domestic) or hopelessly naive and sophomoric (foreign).

Always Right on December 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

Seems to me these polity positions are in line with what most mainstream Christian denominations teach.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:41 AM

polity = policy

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:41 AM

Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggart, David Koresh, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc. may have denuded the reverence of the title Reverend.

If the Huckster has any real support it may just be from those poor dumb folks that live in trailers and send all there money to shyster preachers for special cures and blessings. And they won’t be able to get their truck running long enough to get them down to the polls [thank God].

If Republicans fall for this Jabroni, then we are screwed indeed.

TheSitRep on December 21, 2007 at 11:45 AM

I might have to start making fun of people from Iowa once they vote to nominate Huckabigot.

davenp35 on December 21, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Seems to me these policy positions are in line with what most mainstream Christian denominations teach.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:41 AM

That’s the problem. All too often these days, “Mainline” translates as “Liberal”.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:46 AM

Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggart, David Koresh, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc. may have denuded the reverence of the title Reverend.

TheSitRep on December 21, 2007 at 11:45 AM

I may not like Swaggart, Sharpton or Jackson, but they don’t quite fit in the same category of Jones and Koresh, a couple of messianic/homicidal/suicidal nut cases.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:49 AM

That’s the problem. All too often these days, “Mainline” translates as “Liberal”.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:46 AM

Most of them teach what Christ taught as far are social work is concerned. Christ was not exactly a big business fiscal conservative.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Blogs have no influence.

Allahpundit on December 21, 2007 at 11:38 AM

I disagree, its not a total non-factor, it has a small bit of influence on talk radio, which gives it a tiny bit of power, in an indirect way…tiny isn’t no influence, its just very small.

Bad Candy on December 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM

Bryan,

I don’t think the history of the SBC is too “inside” at all, and I’m not a Baptist.

How can this be your opinion? After all, if one dislikes Huckster or Romney it can only be because of their respective religions. At least that’s what they’ve been implying, and they wouldn’t mislead us, now would they?

Hollowpoint on December 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

False premise.

Romney and his supporters do not say that the only reason he is being attacked is because of his religion, but there just is NO denying that there are plenty of people who oppose him simply because he is a Mormon, and some of those people are simply unhinged.

The opposition to Huckabee is not because he is a Christian/Baptist, it is because he is using his religion to pander for votes.

See the difference?

Buy Danish on December 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM

I may not like Swaggart, Sharpton or Jackson, but they don’t quite fit in the same category of Jones and Koresh, a couple of messianic/homicidal/suicidal nut cases.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:49 AM

I was just being “Big Tent-ish”

but you have to agree the each do damage to their title to some degree.

TheSitRep on December 21, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Huckabee also favors nanny state policies. I don’t trust government power.

Bingo, Bryan. I too am a Southern Baptist and not in favor of Huck. Nanny state policies not only offer poor value for your buck, but also higher and more unfair taxation. But the most frustrating thing about it is that things like universal pre-k, universal healthcare, etc., deprive charities and churches from exercising their call.

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 11:53 AM

See the difference?

Buy Danish on December 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM

It’s Hollowpoint, he does all his looking through his crooked sight.

BKennedy on December 21, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Time to upchuck Huck?

The problem you talked about, Bryan, is actually a common one across all denominations. There’s a right/left split there just as there is in the general populace. We Catholics are still having discussions about the positive/negative effects of Vat II. There is a left/right split in the Jewish community as well.

Connie on December 21, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Most of them teach what Christ taught as far are social work is concerned. Christ was not exactly a big business fiscal conservative.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Yeah, go that direction, turn the government into a mission church, you want to destroy all the religion you love and hold near and dear, grow the government. We’ll be down the same path Europe is in no time. Elect big gov’t Huck, and the church throws itself on gov’ts sword, I guarantee it. Hitch will love you.

Bad Candy on December 21, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:49 AM

Sharpton is the scum of the earth, responsible for the death of innocents in a clothing store fire set by a mob he incited to violence in Harlem, the Tawana Brawley hoax which ruined the life of the innocent former prosecutor Steven Pagones, and many other despicable acts of racial prejudice, bigotry and demagoguery. If he doesn’t fit in the same category as the others, it is only because Sharpton is sane, and therefore even more despicable and vile a human being. I have been hoping for a long time that his judegement day is coming.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Most of them teach what Christ taught as far are social work is concerned. Christ was not exactly a big business fiscal conservative.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:50 AM

The point is that Christ’s teachings were meant on a personal level. If I want to give freely of myself and my personal wealth in support of other’s needs, then that is in line with what Jesus’ taught. Using public funds to do the same is just forced redistribution of wealth.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:56 AM

I’ve been thinking of this lately: What makes an authentic conservative? Would Christ be considered an authentic conservative today?

Christ was apolitical. The only thing he said regarding governmental policy is, “Give to Ceasar what is Caesar’s.”

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Connie on December 21, 2007 at 11:54 AM

The Magistarium (Catholic Bishops) is what we would call politically liberal. They favor free migration of peoples (open boarders), social work, UN oversight, etc.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Sharpton is sane, and therefore even more despicable and vile a human being. I have been hoping for a long time that his judegement day is coming.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Total agreement there!

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:59 AM

Huck the Baptist unctuous two-face

MB4 on December 21, 2007 at 11:59 AM

Connie on December 21, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Just my two cents:

In Judaism, the right/left split is actually just the typical secular/religious split. Most Jews are non-religious lefties.

In Catholicism, it looks to me like more often the clergy is more left than the parishioners.

As for the evangelicals, my sense from reading Bryan and others is that there really isn’t a right/left split, more of a collision about whether Huck is truly right or not.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:01 PM

Christ was apolitical. The only thing he said regarding governmental policy is, “Give to Ceasar what is Caesar’s.”

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 11:58 AM

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus instructs us to welcome the stranger: “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me” (Mt. 25-35).

The baby child Jesus was a refugee who, along with the Holy Family, fled the terror of Herod into Egypt.
(Mt. 2:14-15) [the Church is normally open borders, pro-migration]

In His public ministry, Jesus was an itinerant, moving from place to place, “with nowhere to lay His Head….” (Mt. 8:20) [the Church is normally in favor of government social work]

Jesus Himself was not welcomed by His own people: “He came to what was His own, but His own people did not accept him.” (Jn. 1:11) As we welcome the stranger into our midst, we welcome Christ Himself, for in the face of the migrant,
immigrant, and refugee, we must see the face of Christ. In the Gospel of Luke, this is made clear in the
experience of the disciples on the road to Emmaus (Lk. 24: 13-15), as they become witnesses to the Truth by welcoming the stranger, who is Christ. [open immigration/migration]

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:04 PM

In Catholicism, it looks to me like more often the clergy is more left than the parishioners.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:01 PM

All depends on where the parishioners are. Here is a summary of Catholic Social Teaching Huck’s positions are not that far off from Catholic social teaching. They are a lot closer than Rudy’s.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:06 PM

Bad Candy on December 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM

I agree with you. After a few years of listening to Rush, and a year or so of this, I find that HA and a few others can now function as show prep for talk radio.

(Wonderful for Rush that if/when he chooses to retire, his message lives on. Would like to add him to Mt. RUSHmore if I could. If this were the 1700’s, Rush would be a founding father.)

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:06 PM

The point is that Christ’s teachings were meant on a personal level. If I want to give freely of myself and my personal wealth in support of other’s needs, then that is in line with what Jesus’ taught. Using public funds to do the same is just forced redistribution of wealth.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Exactly. Huck turns our tax revenue into forced tithing to support his version of how God wants things done.

a capella on December 21, 2007 at 12:11 PM

bnelson44 – Not sure what kind of church you’re going to, but, again, these are personal admonishments, not governmental. I know for a fact that my church is not for or against open borders; they are not political. They are for opening your arms to strangers on a personal and/or church level, which is what Christ taught.

If what you say is carried out to its logical conclusion, then we should be a one-world government that bows to Jesus. After all, Jesus commanded us to preach teh word to all nations. Obviously he meant for the government to do that.

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 12:12 PM

While I would prefer that a president share my faith, it’s not a make or break issue with me.

You seem to be the exception rather than the rule, at least from my South Carolina perspective.

BohicaTwentyTwo on December 21, 2007 at 12:14 PM

Haven’t we learned from the last governor from Arkansas that the position clearly does not prepare one to be the POTUS?

If anyone has been to or seen Arkansas, there is not a whole to govern.

kcluva on December 21, 2007 at 12:17 PM

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 12:12 PM


Just saying Huck is more in line with what my Church teaches we should do then a lot of other Republicans are and my Church is not that unusual here. Most main stream Christian churches teach the same thing. Here is an example:

Role of Government and Subsidiarity

Government, or the state, has at its core a positive moral function. It’s an instrument to promote human dignity, human rights and the common good. Its mission is to work for the benefit of all people. Therefore all people have a right and a responsibility to participate in political institutions. Government functions should be performed at the lowest level possible, as long as they can be performed adequately.


“Society as a whole, acting through public and private institutions, has the moral responsibility to enhance human dignity and protect human rights. In addition to the clear responsibility of private institutions, government has an essential responsibility in this area. This does not mean that government has the primary or exclusive role, but it does have a positive moral responsibility in safeguarding human rights and ensuring that the minimum conditions of human dignity are met for all. In a democracy, government is a means by which we can act together to protect what is important to us and to promote our common values.”

Read: Catholic Social Teaching

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Rush is lowering the boom on Huck right now. Big time.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:19 PM

If what you say is carried out to its logical conclusion, then we should be a one-world government that bows to Jesus. After all, Jesus commanded us to preach teh word to all nations. Obviously he meant for the government to do that.

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 12:12 PM

I know of no main stream Christian church that believes what you just said and I wasn’t trying to indicate that any did.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:21 PM

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus instructs us to welcome the stranger: “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me” (Mt. 25-35).

Us. He wasn’t speaking to the government of the time, but to individual people.

The baby child Jesus was a refugee who, along with the Holy Family, fled the terror of Herod into Egypt.
(Mt. 2:14-15) [the Church is normally open borders, pro-migration]

I’m not sure how you equate the two. Nothing is spoken in the bible of how they entered Egypt, or what conditions they lived in while there.

In His public ministry, Jesus was an itinerant, moving from place to place, “with nowhere to lay His Head….” (Mt. 8:20) [the Church is normally in favor of government social work]

Itinerant of his own choice, inside one country. When people took him in, it was by their own choice. Jesus never demanded that the government take care of him.

Jesus Himself was not welcomed by His own people: “He came to what was His own, but His own people did not accept him.” (Jn. 1:11) As we welcome the stranger into our midst, we welcome Christ Himself, for in the face of the migrant,
immigrant, and refugee, we must see the face of Christ. In the Gospel of Luke, this is made clear in the
experience of the disciples on the road to Emmaus (Lk. 24: 13-15), as they become witnesses to the Truth by welcoming the stranger, who is Christ. [open immigration/migration]

Churches, religious groups, and individuals are more than welcome to do all they can to help those in need, especially in the case of a (true) refugee, as long as the help they provide is in accordance with the laws of the land. None of what you have quoted/interpreted/paraphrased makes a case for the government to throw open the borders and blindly accept all those that would show up on the doorstep.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Rush is lowering the boom on Huck right now. Big time.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:19 PM

With Rush, it is all about Rush.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:21 PM

I’m searching the Southern Baptist Convention for its dictates to world governments. This is all I found:

Church and State
We stand for a free church in a free state. Neither one should control the affairs of the other. We support the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, with its “establishment” and “free exercise” clauses.

We do, of course, acknowledge the legitimate interplay of these two spheres. For example, it is appropriate for the state to enact and enforce fire codes for the church nurseries. It is also appropriate for ministers to offer prayer at civic functions. Neither the Constitution nor Baptist tradition would build a wall of separation against such practices as these.

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 12:26 PM

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Two Kingdoms Social Theory

Christ has called individuals to be giving, trusting, kind, forgiving, etc. etc. He has not called nations to any such thing.

Lehosh on December 21, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Bryan, excellent analysis. Pretty much fits my thinking to a T.

In my way of thinking, as well, I would have a very difficult time with a Purpose-Driven President, philosophically and theologically.

Tennman on December 21, 2007 at 12:27 PM

Churches, religious groups, and individuals are more than welcome to do all they can to help those in need, especially in the case of a (true) refugee, as long as the help they provide is in accordance with the laws of the land.
Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Man makes the laws and man can change the laws. A Christian helps people who show up on their doorstep.

I am not in favor of completely open borders, and from what I can tell neither is Huck. But to claim it is somehow being Christian to just expel everyone, no matter what the circumstances, because well, that is what is written in the law of the land, is not correct.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:27 PM

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:56 AM

I agree. I’ve been thinking about this lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that Christians put themselves in spiritual danger when they cede compassion to the government.

Jezla on December 21, 2007 at 12:28 PM

Maybe people should read this when they get a couple of minutes: History of the United States Republican Party

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:28 PM

I’m a conservative Southern Baptist and Bryan’s post gives you some insight into Huck and his odd conservative/liberal mix. While Huckabee’s thinking in some instances reflects conservative Christians, i.e.; his thinking regarding government, taxes, reflects IMO old-time liberal Baptist thinking. I grew up in a liberal SB church and I recognize the pattern.

Novak is the only one I have seen who picked up on the statement in Fund’s WSJ article of late October about Huck and the “moderate” Baptists.

Another thing I have not seen anyone mention, but that I found out when looking around the web is that Huckabee was scheduled to appear at this New Baptist Covenant Celebration that was initiated by Carter and Clinton earlier this year and is going to involve many wildly liberal (doctrine, politics, you name it) Baptist groups and individuals in the U.S. Huckabee cancelled in May, citing Carter’s negative comments about Bush as his reason. I’m not so convinced that was the only reason, but that he might have thought it was politically expedient for him not to be there.

INC on December 21, 2007 at 12:29 PM

I agree. I’ve been thinking about this lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that Christians put themselves in spiritual danger when they cede compassion to the government.

Jezla on December 21, 2007 at 12:28 PM

They also put themselves in spiritual danger if they elect an uncompassionate government.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:29 PM

With Rush, it is all about Rush.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:21 PM

I think that is a very minority opinion. He is going off on Huck big time now for nearly a half hour. I think this is his last day on air until after New Years. My guess is he will spend a lot of time today trying to convince the Iowa voters to wake up to Huck’s record and positions.

He reaches and influences millions, even if you don’t like him. It will be very interesting to see what Hannity and Levin talk about today. Might be a last ditch full court press.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:31 PM

I agree. I’ve been thinking about this lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that Christians put themselves in spiritual danger when they cede compassion to the government.

Jezla on December 21, 2007 at 12:28 PM

Precisely stated. Thank you.

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 12:32 PM

They also put themselves in spiritual danger if they elect an uncompassionate government.

I’m not so sure about that.

Matticus Finch on December 21, 2007 at 12:34 PM

Rush is lowering the boom on Huck right now. Big time.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:19 PM

Bout friggen time…

Bad Candy on December 21, 2007 at 12:36 PM

He reaches and influences millions, even if you don’t like him. It will be very interesting to see what Hannity and Levin talk about today. Might be a last ditch full court press.

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:31 PM

If you have noticed, Rush is a big business Republican. Huck doesn’t seem to be. I wouldn’t expect Rush to endorse Huck. But I know Rush doesn’t like to be criticized and since he was baited, he will respond. After listening to him for more years than I would like to admit, with Rush it is all about Rush.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:36 PM

But to claim it is somehow being Christian to just expel everyone, no matter what the circumstances, because well, that is what is written in the law of the land, is not correct.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:27 PM

Where did anyone say expel everyone? There is a process to come to America legally, those that didn’t follow it broke that law. With the exception of a true refugee (who may have had no choice but to enter the country secretly), those that broke the law shouldn’t get a free pass to stay, just because no one caught them while crossing the border. It’s an international border, not a game of Red Rover.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 12:38 PM

Well said, Bryan. Dittos.

CP on December 21, 2007 at 12:39 PM

If you have noticed, Rush is a big business Republican

Not particularly. Just look at his opposition to shamnesty. But he’s an unabashed capitalist, as am I.

Rush is criticized publicly every day of his life, and takes it with grace and aplomb. He is one of the coolest, calmest people I have ever listened to.

I forgive Rush anything. No Schadenfreude for me when it comes to Rush. If he lost all his money, I would gladly give him some of mine to make him rich as Croesus again.

(And if you’re reading this Rush, invite me over some time.)

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:40 PM

Where did anyone say expel everyone? There is a process to come to America legally, those that didn’t follow it broke that law. With the exception of a true refugee (who may have had no choice but to enter the country secretly), those that broke the law shouldn’t get a free pass to stay, just because no one caught them while crossing the border. It’s an international border, not a game of Red Rover.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 12:38 PM

So I take it from what you just wrote that if they are here you want to expell them.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:40 PM

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:29 PM

I’m not sure what other type of government there is. Government by nature is dispassionate. The type of ‘compassion’ practiced by the government amounts to little more than throwing money at people with no accountability for their poor decisions. True compassion is teaching wisdom in addition to meeting needs. The government is not interested in the former and poorly does the latter.

Jezla on December 21, 2007 at 12:40 PM

Rush is criticized publicly every day of his life, and takes it with grace and aplomb. He is one of the coolest, calmest people I have ever listened to.

I forgive Rush anything. No Schadenfreude for me when it comes to Rush. If he lost all his money, I would gladly give him some of mine to make him rich as Croesus again.

(And if you’re reading this Rush, invite me over some time.)

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 12:40 PM

LOL!

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:41 PM

Very good post Bryan, thanks.

I’m also fine with his faith. I share it, although I’m not a Baptist. What bothers me about Huckabee (other than his atrocious policy positions) is that I believe he is using resentment rather than optimism to drive his support. His message is more “haven’t evangelicals been ignored enough” and that just doesn’t sit well with me.

Slublog on December 21, 2007 at 12:41 PM

So I take it from what you just wrote that if they are here you want to expell them.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:40 PM

With the exception of a true refugee

Did you miss that when you quoted me?

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 12:42 PM

They also put themselves in spiritual danger if they elect an uncompassionate government.

Don’t tell me, let me guess. Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama, or Mike Huckabee. Difficult choice.

I have it! You were going with Edwards then switched to Huckabee.

jaime on December 21, 2007 at 12:51 PM

bnelson44: The only reliable authority for the social views of the US Catholic Church is the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

The individual parishes themselves may have unique interpretations of the social teachings of the Church relative to their parishioners.

There are liberal and conservative Catholics wherein liberals look to change much of church doctrine and the conservatives see the value and benefit of the church doctrine as it is now./end

On Huckabee, his campaign manager in Iowa, Bob Vander Plaats, told Tucker Carlson that the fact that Huckabee is “a pastor” is unique experience that defines Huckabee’s strengths in foreign policy. This is the official campaign manager in Iowa for Huckabee saying that being a pastor equates to foreign policy experience. This is utter nonsense. Left of center politicos must be drooling over a race against Huckabee.

Furthermore, Huckabee is consulting with CFR President Richard Haass to advise him on foreign affairs. The CFR is the institution created by Wall Street banking interests to track events in the world and create analyses for world leaders to implement in order to protect the financial interests of CFR membership. How can Huckabee speak out of one side of his mouth and quip about the NYC to DC chattering classes AND speak to the NYC chattering class for guidance on foreign affairs?

gabriel sutherland on December 21, 2007 at 12:53 PM

Bryan,

Carter and Gore have officially left the Southern Baptists because we’re too conservative now. Bubba hasn’t that I know of, but he never met a group he didn’t want to join, you know!

INC on December 21, 2007 at 12:53 PM

Most of them teach what Christ taught as far are social work is concerned. Christ was not exactly a big business fiscal conservative.
bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 11:50 AM

bnelson,
you just put me some scripture here telling me where Jesus said “hold a gun to your neighbor’s head to fund social change / injustice” or that scripture where Jesus said “hold a gun to your neighbor’s head to discourage them from smoking / adultery / gluttony / on and on”.

burnitup on December 21, 2007 at 12:56 PM

bnelson,
you just put me some scripture here telling me where Jesus said “hold a gun to your neighbor’s head to fund social change / injustice” or that scripture where Jesus said “hold a gun to your neighbor’s head to discourage them from smoking / adultery / gluttony / on and on”.

burnitup on December 21, 2007 at 12:56 PM

Show me where Huck said that?

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:58 PM

Crap. Ed Rollins is Huckabee’s national campaign manager?

This isn’t good news for the anyone but Huckabee coalition.

gabriel sutherland on December 21, 2007 at 1:00 PM

bnelson44: The only reliable authority for the social views of the US Catholic Church is the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

gabriel sutherland on December 21, 2007 at 12:53 PM

Here you go: The US Bishops on Social Issues

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 1:01 PM

Show me where Huck said that?

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 12:58 PM

He doesn’t need to. Just try not paying your taxes for awhile, and see how long it takes for some folks with guns to turn up to show you the error of your ways.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 1:03 PM

Now the WH is taking on Huck, through Rice.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TLURIG1&show_article=1

JiangxiDad on December 21, 2007 at 1:09 PM

bnelson,
My point is is that liberal Christians take Christ’s message as a call for governmental intervention instead of the individual action. And in making the issue one of government instead of individual you remove free choice from the equation. This is why I despise Huckabee.

burnitup on December 21, 2007 at 1:15 PM

burnitup on December 21, 2007 at 1:15 PM

I think you’ll find that most main stream Christian Churches teach that it takes both.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 1:21 PM

And in making the issue one of government instead of individual you remove free choice from the equation.

I used to have a difficult time explaining this sentiment to my fellow Catholics. It has become easier to explain over time as the evidence mounts that government is awful at addressing social injustices with income redistribution.

The best argument: wouldn’t you rather give your income to the Catholic Church to help those in need than send it to Washington DC or the state capitol where 70 cents on every dollar is burned up in overhead and regulation?

gabriel sutherland on December 21, 2007 at 1:22 PM

Now the WH is taking on Huck, through Rice.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TLURIG1&show_article=1

Good. Rice is not a member of the Jim Baker/Brent Scowcroft axis in Republican views on foreign affairs. Who is a member? Senator Chuck Hagel.

Huckabee is consulting with Richard Haass, John Kerry’s foreign affairs adviser in 2004. Remember Kerry’s foreign affairs idea?

gabriel sutherland on December 21, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Its not that Huck is an Evangelical, its that he is using his Evangelicism to HIDE the Liberal Nonentity beneath.

Always Right on December 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

Stevie Wonder could see this.

baldilocks on December 21, 2007 at 1:27 PM

I think you’ll find that most main stream Christian Churches teach that it takes both.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 1:21 PM

and then we’re right back where we started when I said:

That’s the problem. All too often these days, “Mainline” translates as “Liberal”.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 11:46 AM

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 1:27 PM

Huckabee is consulting with Richard Haass, John Kerry’s foreign affairs adviser in 2004. Remember Kerry’s foreign affairs idea?

gabriel sutherland on December 21, 2007 at 1:26 PM

I am pretty sure he only visited with Haass once. I have no idea where Huck is getting his foreign affairs advice.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 1:34 PM

I have no idea where Huck is getting his foreign affairs advice.

bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 1:34 PM

Neither does Huckaschmuck.

Frozen Tex on December 21, 2007 at 1:38 PM

False premise. See the difference?–Buy Danish on December 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM
It’s Hollowpoint, he does all his looking through his crooked sight.–BKennedy on December 21, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Sarcasm missed; see the difference Danish?
BKennedy speaks from his mirror.

maverick muse on December 21, 2007 at 1:59 PM

I think you’ll find that most main stream Christian Churches teach that it takes both.
bnelson44 on December 21, 2007 at 1:21 PM

I guess I have no idea what they’re preaching in “mainstream churches” or what gods they’re worshipping.

The God I worship is all about the freedom. The individual is free to believe, serve, and obey Him or not. The individual is free to follow the Lord’s commandment to “love his neighbor as himself” or not.

I kinda thought this country was the same way. I respect my neighbor’s freedom to smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day and die of lung cancer. I respect my neighbor’s freedom to eat McDonald’s everyday and die of heart failure. I may disagree with their choices, and try to counsel them otherwise, but they were free to make them. Mike Huckabee is just another pisspot wanna-be-dictator who would prop himself up on BS “compassion” instead of the usual class envy politics used in the past. I will never support a man-made “theocracy”, they tried it in Rome for 1100 years. The only theocracy I’m interested in seeing is when Christ comes again.

burnitup on December 21, 2007 at 2:10 PM

Blogs have no influence.

Allahpundit on December 21, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Dan Rather

“Blogs are hotter than the Devil’s anvil.”

“One’s reminded of that old saying, ‘Don’t taunt the alligator blogs until after you’ve crossed the creek.’”

Entelechy on December 21, 2007 at 2:19 PM

Its not that Huck is an Evangelical, its that he is using his Evangelicism to HIDE the Liberal Nonentity beneath.

Always Right on December 21, 2007 at 11:39 AM

You, Sir, have nailed it.

Snort of $100,000.00 dollar Hennessey raised and quaffed.

TheSitRep on December 21, 2007 at 2:27 PM

When someone talks about Huckabee, I smell peanuts and think of the “peanut-brained” president we had before Reagan. I get the same vibes from Huckabee that I did from Carter. I didn’t vote for Carter and I won’t vote for Huckabee until it gets to the “lesser of two evils” in the general election. It has absolutely nothing to do with his religion as far as I am concerned. I am an independent Baptist, born-again, Christian who doesn’t think that a label makes a person. I too would prefer a presidential candidate who is a born-again independent Baptist with conservative values in both the social and fiscal areas. I would vote for Mitt before I would vote for Huckabee because I believe that Mitt is better on the issues than Huckabee and I believe that Mitt has executive abilities far beyond those of Huckabee because Mitt has demonstrated his abilities in private industry as well as in the governmental arena.

TruthToBeTold on December 21, 2007 at 2:52 PM

You should feel honored, or degraded, or both, bnelson.

Seems to me these poli[c]y positions are in line with what most mainstream Christian denominations teach.

Agreeing with FrozenTex: Most mainline churches are both shrinking and losing doctrinal strength, probably as a result of liberalizing theology.

Most of them teach what Christ taught as far are social work is concerned. Christ was not exactly a big business fiscal conservative.

Christ was not a businessman. He did not spend his 33 years on this earth to be a businessman. He, er, had something to teach that only God could teach. Fiscal conservatism is something it takes a bit of common sense and wisdom to figure out.

I’ve been thinking of this lately: What makes an authentic conservative? Would Christ be considered an authentic conservative today?

That’s an utterly nonsense question. It’s actually a rationalization for voting for or supporting Huckabee because he’s Christian over his actual policy positions and their potential effect on the nation.

I think you’ll find that most main stream Christian Churches teach that it takes both.

Government intervention? Usually as soon as churches begin to advocate collectivist solutions the drive to do anything individual is reduced to pressuring the government. We’re just wired that way.

RiverCocytus on December 21, 2007 at 5:50 PM

Blogs have no influence.

Allahpundit on December 21, 2007 at 11:38 AM

I don’t agree with that at all.
Blogs aren’t the river but they are tributaries.
The river might not change direction for one contribution but for enough input there is course correction.
Blogs are part of a bottom up source of inspiration from grassroots to leaders.
They’re listening.

Speakup on December 21, 2007 at 6:18 PM

NO

Winebabe on December 22, 2007 at 2:19 PM

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