Ron Paul: Sure, I’ll take money from Nazis
posted at 7:09 pm on December 19, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Red herrings galore in response to Cavuto asking why he won’t return the $500 donation he got from Stormfront degenerate Don Black. Answer #1: “It’s probably already been spent.” Fortunately, money is fungible. Answer #2: “I see no purpose for me to start screening everybody who sends me money.” No one’s asking him to screen everybody (although major donors would be nice). The fact of Black’s donation was handed to him on a platter by a third party. If outside agents are willing to screen for you gratis, why not avail yourself? Answer #3: If he gives the money back, that’s $500 Black has back to spend on Nazism. In that case, why not re-gift it to a third party? I hear the Wiesenthal Center does good work. Answer #4: “The real evil” is the military/industrial complex. I’ve heard his supporters float this turd of an excuse before and it never fails to irritate me, not because there isn’t plenty evil about special interests but because it requires them to suddenly become very obtuse about the unique contempt with which racism, especially of the white supremacist variety, is regarded in America. We can argue about whether this or that Pentagon project is necessary for defense or just a lucrative money pit for militarists; not much room for argument on Don Black, though. Taking his money is a way of saying yeah, he’s a pig, but not much more of one than Boeing is, really. And even a pig’s got a right to eat, no? A small legitimization but a legitimization nonetheless.
So why not dump the money, particularly given what a small drop it is in the ocean of dough Paul’s swimming in and how his refusal to do so has extended the shelf life of this otherwise unpleasant but minor story? No idea.
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Think that’s exactly why more people don’t support Paul. Don’t agree with him on enough issues. Just sayin…
JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 8:37 PM
that doesn’t answer my question.
Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:37 PM
@ bnelson44 on December 19, 2007 at 8:32 PM
I have read through all of that. Saying you are for something is different than displaying over the span of 10 terms in congress that you are devoted to the ideas. That was why I am not 100% sure about his issues. Bush was for a lot of things that COMPLETELY changed once he was in office.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 8:37 PM
@ Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:37 PM
He has only stated this like a million times. You reduce spending and then remove the income tax.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 8:38 PM
@ JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 8:37 PM
I agree that is why a portion of people dont support him, but I think a majority of people just don’t know about him.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 8:39 PM
that still doesn’t answer the question. How does the government function….on what revenues?
Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:39 PM
You said he didn’t have a position on the issues. That was flat out wrong. Fred isn’t my candidate, but you don’t need to propagate things that are simply not true.
bnelson44 on December 19, 2007 at 8:39 PM
Where does the “other” revenue come from?
JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 8:40 PM
@ bnelson44 on December 19, 2007 at 8:39 PM
What did I say that was untrue. I support Fred, I just would trust him more if he had more experience and a bigger record.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 8:44 PM
Where does the government get it’s cash?
Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:45 PM
Here is what you said, and it is wrong, as I pointed out in my post to this link on record about his positions on various issues.
bnelson44 on December 19, 2007 at 8:48 PM
A lot of it comes from the Fed issuing bonds. But Ron Paul wants to get rid of the Fed to.
bnelson44 on December 19, 2007 at 8:49 PM
Yeah…now it does…but in Paul-land. Muyoso wants us to live in Paul-land. I want to know how Paul-land pays for itself.
Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:50 PM
It’s easy to be a crank and idealist when just a congressman and 1 out of over 500 votes. Quite another when you are 1 of 1 as the POTUS. I think many paul supporters don’t realize the limitations of the presidents power, how getting rid of the IRS, CIA, FBI and drastically cutting budget is not possible.
playing that game has its perks though, Paul gets to place $400 million worth of pork in budget request for this year alone, then vote against the budget knowing full well its going to pass anyway. Then get best of both worlds, Pork and “principle”
jp on December 19, 2007 at 8:52 PM
@ bnelson44 on December 19, 2007 at 8:48 PM
You STILL havent gotten what I mean about record? Not written down on a piece of paper, record. VOTING FOR THESE THINGS IN CONGRESS, record. Something that proves he believes in these things.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 8:52 PM
I wish there was a way to similate Paul-land and let Paul be president of it, with everything else the same as the real world. Just so the Paul supporters could see what would happen and how the stuff he advocates is politically impossible, and foolish in some cases.
jp on December 19, 2007 at 8:56 PM
That is debt. I hardly think Paul supports that. He is also opposed to fiat currency like the US dollar.
Still haven’t heard an answer.
JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 8:58 PM
me too.
Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:58 PM
@ Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 8:45 PM
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/BudgetChartBook/charts_P/P6.cfm
As of right now, income tax represents less than a fifth of the total GDP of the nation.
I am still looking as for what comprises the rest of the GDP, although I know its partially tarrifs and other sorts of taxes that arent levied directly on the individual. Reducing spending is the key to making a income tax free system work, and its entirely possible.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 8:59 PM
@ JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 8:58 PM
You know, if you are truly interested, which I know you arent, you can go here and find out.
http://www.google.com
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Tarrifs and taxes not levied on the individual. Oh. So the importer doesn’t pass on the cost to you…right?…
And ooops….the U.N. just put a trade embargo on the U.S….nothing coming in so no tarrifs. What goes on outside the borders are none of our business, right? So it is what, vegetable farms for everyone?
Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 9:01 PM
That’s because the majority is in the hands of the people, NOT THE GOVERNMENT. Do you really even know what you’re saying?
Do you want the government to have a greater share of the GDP? Even Paul doesn’t want that. You are confused.
JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 9:02 PM
@ Limerick on December 19, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Did I say they don’t pass on the price of the good to the consumer? They do that NOW as is, AND we have to pay income tax on top of it.
And the UN cuts the US off from trade. That is cute. What if the UN declares war on the US and uses their dinosaur army to conquer the Northeast?
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:04 PM
@ JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 9:02 PM
I seriously have no clue what you just said. I majority of what?
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:05 PM
muyoso is making good points.
I thought guilt by association was a trick of the Left.
You like small government? David Duke likes small government. YOU RACIST!!!
What seems salient here is that he won’t return/ re-gift $500 from a white supremecist. Bad move politically. The fact that he doesn’t feel the need to reject this money because he himself is not a white supremecist, brilliant.
If you think Paul is actually evil, then you are very misinformed.
P.S. Fred is inevitable
VolMagic on December 19, 2007 at 9:06 PM
@ JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 9:02 PM
Maybe GDP was the wrong measure and that is where the confusion is coming from. As for where the government gets its money:
Excise taxes
Corporate income taxes
Payroll taxes
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:10 PM
It isn’t relevant that the income tax represents less than a fifth of GDP. GDP is the wealth of the nation, held in the hands of the citizens. It isn’t the government’s money. It’s PRIVATE. That’s capitalism. The government meets it’s budget by taxation and borrowing. Eliminate them, and you eliminate the gov’t.
If you want to increase the size of the government, and increase socialism/communism, commit a larger portion of the nation’s GDP to the gov’t. As an aside, given our huge exports, using GNP is more appropriate in our case.
JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 9:11 PM
I’m gonna pass. This is ridiculous.
JiangxiDad on December 19, 2007 at 9:12 PM
According to Encarta, income tax is over 40% of federal revenue. SS and the like makes up almost 40% of the rest. Dude!
Encarta chart
Snidely Whiplash on December 19, 2007 at 9:13 PM
Why are you looking at income tax as a percentage of GDP? The comparison is apt if you want to look at income taxes as a portion of the economy as a whole, but that’s not what is at issue. More properly you should be looking at income taxes as a percentage of total federal receipts, since that’s what the issue is.
JohnTant on December 19, 2007 at 9:14 PM
@ Snidely Whiplash on December 19, 2007 at 9:13 PM
If that is accurate then obviously removing the income tax is impossible. I do question the accuracy of that, but assuming it is true, then I will concede.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:17 PM
@ Snidely Whiplash on December 19, 2007 at 9:13 PM
It appears to be accurate. I guess some sort of income tax has to remain, although I think it should be GREATLY reduced.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:19 PM
http://taxprof.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/revenue20growth.jpg
Check that out.
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:21 PM
If you don’t like Encarta, there’s always The Statistical Abstract of the United States.
Table 464, Federal Receipts by Source: 1990 to 2006 (Excel required)…the individual income tax for 2005 was $927 billion out of $2.153 trillion in total federal receipts…or 43%.
JohnTant on December 19, 2007 at 9:21 PM
@ JohnTant on December 19, 2007 at 9:21 PM
muyoso on December 19, 2007 at 9:23 PM
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/did_ron_paul_school_ben_bernan.php
jp on December 19, 2007 at 9:42 PM
I agree with Paul wholeheartedly on this one, as far as not giving the money back.
Metro on December 19, 2007 at 10:42 PM
If Nazis like Ron Paul and want to give him money so be it. Apart from some quid pro quo deal being struck for it, who give’s a rat’s ass? Paul needs the money. Money is an object and has no morality, at least in this case.
thegreatbeast on December 20, 2007 at 12:00 AM
They should ask him why he allows his columns to be run in Holocaust denying publications, in addition to this. He has these type of supporters for a reason.
the real irony is the Communist that like him. much less the self-described fascist
jp on December 20, 2007 at 12:23 AM
He has a point about not giving the money back to people like that just so they can use it for whatever evil deeds they want. Well if it weren’t for the fact that he’s using it. I say take the money and then give it to a Synagogue.
- The Cat
MirCat on December 20, 2007 at 2:46 AM
I was reading LGF’s link to SPLC’s article on Dr. Paul. What’s the deal with Vdare, the Buchanans and the Washington Times?
All wingnut nazis?
AprilOrit on December 20, 2007 at 2:55 AM
Then there is this:
The “Commander” of the American National Socialist Workers Party (i.e., the “Nazis”) has posted the following statement over at VNN, another leading White Supremacist hate-site.
Comrades:
I have kept quiet about the Ron Paul campaign for a while, because I didn’t see any need to say anything that would cause any trouble. However, reading the latest release from his campaign spokesman, I am compelled to tell the truth about Ron Paul’s extensive involvement in white nationalism.
Both Congressman Paul and his aides regularly meet with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review, and others at the Tara Thai restaurant in Arlington, Virginia, usually on Wednesdays. This is part of a dinner that was originally organized by Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis and Joe Sobran, and has since been mostly taken over by the Council of Conservative Citizens.
I have attended these dinners, seen Paul and his aides there, and been invited to his offices in Washington to discuss policy.
For his spokesman to call white racialism a “small ideology” and claim white activists are “wasting their money” trying to influence Paul is ridiculous. Paul is a white nationalist of the Stormfront type who has always kept his racial views and his views about world Judaism quiet because of his political position.
I don’t know that it is necessarily good for Paul to “expose” this. However, he really is someone with extensive ties to white nationalism and for him to deny that in the belief he will be more respectable by denying it is outrageous — and I hate seeing people in the press who denounce racialism merely because they think it is not fashionable.
Rightwingsparkle on December 20, 2007 at 6:42 AM
Link here.
Rightwingsparkle on December 20, 2007 at 6:43 AM
Translation: It’s OK when Paul keeps questionable money, but other people are held to a different standard.
JohnTant on December 20, 2007 at 8:14 AM
Not really an unimpeachable source
sweeper on December 20, 2007 at 8:28 AM
just google “Ron Paul KKK” and see how many hits you get, these people are supporting Paul for a reason. It doesn’t matter what Paul says, its what he does(and his record regarding issues like Israel is myopic). Anyway, that alone gives credence to Sparkle’s link/source.
Even if you don’t think he’s allied with them, either knowingly or just an useful idiot, ask yourself this: What would the liberal media and the Dems do to Paul if he became the face of the Republican party, or even apart of it?
jp on December 20, 2007 at 10:12 AM
Interesting answer, but unfortunately it’s going to what Ron Paul doesn’t want to do. This is only going to make this question NOT GO AWAY. He’ll continue to get asked this question over and over.
This is the whole reason why candidates for public office either return the donations or pass them along to charity. They want to stop talking about it and instead talk about issues that will help them get elected.
Ron Paul is just demonstrating that he needs better campaign advisers.
gabriel sutherland on December 20, 2007 at 10:36 AM
AprilOrit: The SPLC gets so many things wrong it’s impossible to keep track of them all. For years they were relying on the research of noted fabricator Chip Berlet. So far as I know, the SPLC has severed their relationship with Berlet, but his research is still found in their archives.
Also, the SPLC is one of the most ridiculous non-profits in the United States. They have an endowment of around 150 million dollars yet they continue to write appeals seeking millions of dollars each year to conduct their programs. The SPLC has a larger endowment than many universities.
gabriel sutherland on December 20, 2007 at 10:39 AM
turns out the Restaurant this Nazi mentions meeting Paul at, has contributed to the Paul Campaign. interesting
jp on December 20, 2007 at 12:32 PM
Ron Paul isn’t the babe of any special interest groups. Whatever else you might think about him, he’s incorruptible. You can’t buy him off. So look at the $500 donation with that perspective. He’s going to use it to promote values of individual freedom and equality. Values that ultimately are poison to hateful racist ideologies. Racism is just a form of collectivism — refusing to regard people as individuals, but as members of a group. If a Nazi wants to pay him to fight their ideology (even though they are in agreement on the importance of national sovereignty), why not?
When a politician is swayed by the people who give them money, I can see where there would be a concern. But if your principles are immutable, it doesn’t matter who gives you money. They support your principles with their donation.
See also how James Joyner accepts advertisements on Outside the Beltway from PETA, an organization with close ties to domestic terror groups. He doesn’t agree with them, but he’s fine with them funding his blog. Won’t keep him from enjoying a nice Murder Steak, and he’ll laugh all the way to the bank with a fully belly of dead cows.
Heh. The Truthers say the same thing. They say Paul supports them, but has to keep quiet about it in public. So not only do these groups believe in crazy conspiracies (OMG the Jews and black people! OMG the government did 9/11!), they actually believe that people who speak out against their theories are actually people who support them. Sort of like how some gay people who think that anyone who has any sort of viscerally negative reaction to homosexuality is a closet homosexual. Conspiracies within conspiracies. Such is their nature.
Mark Jaquith on December 20, 2007 at 1:25 PM
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