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Huckabee ‘92: Isolate AIDS patients; Update: Huck issues statement

posted at 3:06 pm on December 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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DuMond and his clemency record, the flip-flop on Gitmo, the NIE fiasco, calling ICE “INS” in his new immigration plan, attributing his poll surge to a power that’s “not human,” and now this — and that’s just the past week. Tuition breaks for illegals, the “Christian leader” ad, the 2003 any-tax’ll-do speech, and his support for the Fair Tax were all already a matter of blogospheric record.

Whatever they’re paying their new research guy to deal with all this crap, it’s not enough.

As a candidate for a U.S. Senate seat in 1992, Huckabee answered 229 questions submitted to him by The Associated Press. Besides a quarantine, Huckabee suggested that Hollywood celebrities fund AIDS research from their own pockets, rather than federal health agencies.

“If the federal government is truly serious about doing something with the AIDS virus, we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague,” Huckabee wrote.

“It is difficult to understand the public policy towards AIDS. It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents.”…

When Huckabee wrote his answers in 1992, it was common knowledge that AIDS could not be spread by casual contact. In late 1991, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said there were 195,718 AIDS patients in the country and that 126,159 people had died from the syndrome.

He supports public funding for AIDS now, as the AP notes. The last paragraph is the key: Was he so ignorant as not to know as late as ‘92 that AIDS wasn’t communicable through casual contact or was he so vindictive that he did know and supported a quarantine anyway, just because? Given the misinformation under which he’s been operating about the “INS” and the new NIE that he thinks was four years old, I’m not so sure it’s vindictiveness. The guy simply may not know what he’s talking about a lot of the time. Or (or perhaps because) he may be easily swayed: That was Jonathan Chait’s theory for Huck’s conversion to the Fair Tax (a more charitable interpretation, incidentally, than Rich Lowry has) and it also seems to explain Huck’s reversal on Gitmo, which came after meeting with a group of retired generals. Which brings us to a second key question. Are these notable flip-flops the product of naked pandering to the base, as seemed to be the case in adopting Krikorian’s immigration plan after having described opposition to Bush’s amnesty bill as “nativist” in 2006, or is Huck just a soft mark for ideologues trying to bend him to their side? Whatever the answer is, it’s extremely worrisome.

Needless (and sad) to say, there’s a small segment of the GOP base that won’t fault him for his old AIDS remarks — although, interestingly, that same segment may now be curious to know why he’s since reversed himself. Also interesting is whether any of the other Republican candidates will have the balls to call him on this. Rudy won’t because social cons are already suspicious of his prior support for gay rights; Fred and especially Mitt can’t afford to since they’re competing with Huck to be the truest “True Conservative” and any softness towards gays will be a step backwards. That leaves McCain, who may sense an opportunity to outflank Rudy towards the center while earning himself some media buzz before New Hampshire in the process. Bet on Maverick.

Also needless to say, if Huck’s the nominee the Democrats will bludgeon him with this in the general. And if they do, expect to hear the words “Robert Byrd” a lot in his replies.

I leave you with this, which is also worrisome but isn’t related to the subject at hand — except insofar as it suggests Huck’s adherence to the golden rule is sometimes, shall we say, selective:

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said at a campaign stop today that America has to work to re-establish relationships with other countries…

Huckabee also said that nations deserve the same kind of treatment that individuals do.

“You treat others the way you’d like to be treated,” he said. “That’s to me the fundamental issue that has to be re-established in our dealings with other countries.”

Update: Speaking of flip-flops and selective principles

Update: Here’s Huck’s statement on the subject via the hardest-working research director in the business. His explanation: We weren’t sure what caused the disease in 1992 — an assertion that will no doubt be challenged by AIDS awareness advocates — and so it was better to be safe than sorry. Now that we know, no need for a quarantine, obviously.

“In the late 80’s and early 90’s we were still learning about the virus that causes AIDS. My concern, as a Senate candidate at the time, was to deal with the virus using the same public health protocols that medical science and public health professionals would use with any infectious disease.

Before a disease can be cured and contained we need to know exactly how and with near certainty what level of contact transmits the disease. There was still too much confusion about HIV transmission in those early years. Recall that in 1991, Kimberly Bergalis testified in front of Congress after contracting HIV from her dentist, and that summer a study was published showing that HIV was transmitted through breastmilk more easily than had been thought. But the federal government provided some guidelines: Also in 1991 the Centers for Disease Control recommended restrictions on the practice of HIV-positive health care workers.

At the time, there was widespread concern over modes of transmission and the possibility of epidemic. In the absence of conclusive data, my focus was on efforts to limit the exposure of the virus, following traditional medical practices developed from our public health experience and medical science in dealing with tuberculosis and other infectious diseases.

We now know that the virus that causes AIDS is spread differently, with a lower level of contact than with TB. But looking back almost 20 years, my concern was the uncertain risk to the general population – if we got it wrong, many people would die needlessly. My concern was safety first, political correctness last.

My administration will be the first to have an overarching strategy for dealing with HIV and AIDS here in the United States, with a partnership between the public and private sectors that will provide necessary financing and a realistic path toward our goals. We must prevent new infections and provide more accessible care. We must do everything possible to transform the promise of a vaccine and a cure into reality.

Furthermore, I am proud that the United States has led the global battle against HIV/ AIDS. We have both a strategic interest as the world’s only superpower and a moral obligation as the world’s richest country to continue to do so until this scourge is a memory.

I supported the current Administration’s proposal to double our initial commitment from $15 billion to $30 billion over the next five years for the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR). PEPFAR has already done an extraordinary amount of good, by providing drugs for over a million people and care for four-and-a-half million people, but it expires in 2008 and must be reauthorized. I support an increase in our commitment to the Global Fund. Through PEPFAR and the Global Fund, we can do our fair share to meet the Millennium Development Goals we affirmed in 2000, which include universal access to HIV/AIDS prevention, treatment, and care.”

Update: Some readers are e-mailing to say it isn’t fair of me to assert that Huck may have thought AIDS was caused by casual contact, that it may have been he knew very well in 1992 what the causes were but thought that AIDS patients should have been isolated anyway. The new statement undercuts that argument, but here’s my response to it in the comments anyway.

Update: I’m far from being an expert on AIDS but C. Everett Koop was confident enough in the causes and non-causes of the disease to include this in his famous report in October 1986. Sorry for the all-caps; that’s how it appears in the PDF.

BUT NEW INFECTIONS CAN BE PREVENTED IF WE, AS INDIVIDUALS, TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROTECTING OURSELVES AND OTHERS FROM EXPOSURE TO THE AIDS VIRUS. AIDS IS NOT SPREAD BY CASUAL, NONSEXUAL CONTACT, IT IS SPREAD BY HIGH RISK SEXUAL AND DRUG RELATED BEHAVIORS–BEHAVIORS THAT WE CAN CHOOSE TO AVOID. EVERY PERSON CAN REDUCE THE RISK OF EXPOSURE TO THE AIDS VIRUS THROUGH PREVENTIVE MEASURES THAT ARE SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD, AND EFFECTIVE. HOWEVER, IF PEOPLE ARE TO FOLLOW THESE RECOMMENDED MEASURES–TO ACT RESPONSIBLY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND OTHERS–THEY MUST BE INFORMED ABOUT THEM. THAT IS AN OBVIOUS STATEMENT, BUT NOT A SIMPLE ONE. EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT AIDS HAS NEVER BEEN EASY.

According to NIH, Koop mailed an eight-page synopsis of the report to all American households in May 1988, the largest mailing in American history to that time. That doesn’t eliminate Huck’s point about the Bergalis case but it does suggest he would have or should have known at the time that cases like that were outliers, if the fact that there were still “only” 200,000 cases as of 1992 and not the tens of millions we would have seen by then if the disease was transmitted by air hadn’t already convinced him.


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Comment pages: 1 2

“…and the walls come tumblin’ down…”

SouthernGent on December 8, 2007 at 3:11 PM

I opt for the combo platter, he really has no idea what he is talking about and can be swayed on a dime.

bbz123 on December 8, 2007 at 3:12 PM

/channeling Huck supporter/

How dare you take St. Huckabee’s name in vain? As God’s Chosen Candidate, none of that matters. We don’t care about his qualifications, his record, or anything he’s actually done as a leader. All that’s important is whether or not he can put an X in the box that says “Christian”. It’s like a supernatural force field that excuses everything, and makes him immune to things like bad judgment and human nature. So vote for Huck, for he wears the Holy Condom of Christian Infallibility (TM).

ReubenJCogburn on December 8, 2007 at 3:23 PM

I bet the dems are praying for this guy to win. That will be a walk in the park for them. If as they say it is christian conservatives who are propping this guy up, because they hate mormons, then I have to say the whole lot of them are stupid.

It seems like they will rather lose this election to Satan…Hillary, than win, and it is pissing me off. I know Rudy has some issues, and even Romney with his mormonism, but all those are personal stuff, which can be overcome.

This guy is making policy blunders, what kind of person wants to quarantine HIV patients…does he even know what the hell he is talking about, how stupid it sounds?

Chudi on December 8, 2007 at 3:24 PM

I think the story is pretty much a non-story, but hopefully it will bring some negative attention to the media darling. Huck is not a good conservative and if nominated many Republicans would find this out for themselves and regret that they didn’t work harder to see an actual conservative nominated.

davenp35 on December 8, 2007 at 3:25 PM

Who cares about this? I wanna know if Huck still thinks Canada’s parliament building is an igloo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo

Drum on December 8, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Both parties in this country are hijacked by their extremes.

A serious unshackling is in order for its good, and survival. If not it will be destroyed from within.

Entelechy on December 8, 2007 at 3:31 PM

According to the CDC the AIDS virus can live in any bodily fluid and on surfaces for up to 72 hours.

A rational consideration of infection vectors leads one to conclude quarantine of carriers may not be a bad idea, considering cases of infected persons deliberately spreading the disease.

The PC police wont even tolerate the discussion, but the infected are dangerous to the uninfected.

dogsoldier on December 8, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Entelechy on December 8, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Huckabee is far right?

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Both parties in this country are hijacked by their extremes.

A serious unshackling is in order for its good, and survival. If not it will be destroyed from within.

Entelechy on December 8, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Limerick smiles

Limerick on December 8, 2007 at 3:44 PM

According to the CDC the AIDS virus can live in any bodily fluid and on surfaces for up to 72 hours.

Here are two CDC fact sheets. The odds of getting it that way are remote.

Allahpundit on December 8, 2007 at 3:45 PM

And this a bad thing because……? I am not going to vote for the guy but had the government had the guts to stand up to the PC lunatics and developed a quarantine program there would have been many, many fewer incidences of transmission. It is sad to think that if trans fats were somehow a necessary component of the gay lifestyle they would have never been banned in NYC; that too would have been homophobic.

BigAnge on December 8, 2007 at 3:46 PM

Hmmm, sounds like its time for another talk with The Chuck.

In fact, at this point it might be a good idea if Chuck gave Huck a personally autographed “The Chuck” sockpuppet to carry with him at all times in case of emergencies.

Dusty on December 8, 2007 at 3:52 PM

I live with AIDs patients every friggin day. They work with my wife and I. We have them over for dinner and drinks. I shake their hands. I put their dishes in the same damn dishwasher MY dishes go in. They aren’t sprayed with mosquito repellant in the hope of ME not getting infected by some kamakazi skeeter. What the hell do people think…that this is some ‘Aliens’ episode and sleep with one eye open?
Anyone who thinks you ‘just can’ get it is a (don’t want to get banned word).

Limerick on December 8, 2007 at 3:54 PM

BigAnge on December 8, 2007 at 3:46 PM

Not necessarily a quarantine program, but closing down the high-risk activities (e.g. bath houses) early on would have made a significant dent in the mortality.

Valiant on December 8, 2007 at 3:56 PM

I’m starting to see the geuius of Huck’s campaign. It’s kind of similar to Hillary’s, in that it’s a two for one deal. But with Huck, you get Huck and God.

greggish on December 8, 2007 at 3:59 PM

Both parties in this country are hijacked by their extremes.

A serious unshackling is in order for its good, and survival. If not it will be destroyed from within.

Entelechy on December 8, 2007 at 3:31 PM

With regards to the Republican party, which group(s) of “extremes” have hijacked it? Are you calling religious people who are in favor of a Federal Marriage Amendment and against abortion “extreme”?

The one extreme group that has control of both the Democrat and Republican Parties, in my opinion, is the pro-amnesty activist group(s). Considering the 3-current front-runners (if one believes the polls) Mike Huckabee, Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, they are all pro-amnesty in one form or another. Yet, they are the front-runners. While Fred Thompson, Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter all lag behind.

The only commonality I see between the front-runners is their soft/pro-amnesty stance on illegal immigration.

So, if by “extremes” who have hijacked the Republican Party you mean the pro-amnesty groups, then I agree.

Michael in MI on December 8, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Who said Dr. Huckabee thought AIDS was spread by casual contact? He just said he wanted them isolated. It’s undeniable that it is an infectious disease. But if people are isolated, they aren’t having unprotected sex or sharing needles. I think part of the reason they aren’t isolated is the notion that the victims are not undeserving of it or at least adult enought to take an informed risk. If it was infecting school-kids, there would definitely be isolation.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:06 PM

1992? Who cares? It might not have been such a bad idea at the time. Especially when you consider people like this.

Guardian on December 8, 2007 at 4:10 PM

If it was infecting school-kids, there would definitely be isolation.

Kinda like we do with the common cold.

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Anyone who thinks you ‘just can’ get it is a (don’t want to get banned word).

Limerick on December 8, 2007 at 3:54 PM

Sick em Limerick. Recent revelations have shown that the number of individuals alleged to have contracted AIDS has been intentionally over estimated, hence giving the general public at largely a false perception of the communicability of the HIV/HTLV virus.

This said Huck’s suggestion of quarantining individuals infected with the virus once again seems to show a lack of understanding or knowledge on a subject that is troubling. His recent reversal of a previous position may indicate that he has learned more about the subject but does not negate the disturbing mounting evidence that he takes positions in ignorance of facts and evidence.

doriangrey on December 8, 2007 at 4:14 PM

Kinda like we do with the common cold.

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Which variant of the common cold is fatal in 100% of cases?

If you meant to say kind of like SARS, then yes.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/04/04/sars.bush/index.html

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:19 PM

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:06 PM

That was my take on it too, but there are two “problems.” One is that of civil rights. AIDS might be tragic, but it’s not enough of a “national emergency” to start taking away people’s rights. Few people would accept that, and I think that – not an idea of the victims “deserving it” – is what is going on here. The second problem is that it’s unclear to me how much transmission takes place after people are known to have HIV. I think I’m not mistaken in assuming that most transmission in the U.S. takes place before diagnosis. So a quarantine would not be very effective and would take away people’s rights. It would save lives, which is why it’s not as ridiculous an idea as it may first seem, but few would accept the cost of doing so. Huckabee circa 1992 seemed to be one of the few. Given the current wartime situation, it would be interesting to see how many people see such a “flexible” view of civil rights as a good thing and how many see it as bad.

calbear on December 8, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Kinda like we do with the common cold.

And if HIV was communicable by breathing in a common space, it would be quarantine-worthy. Like SARS is.

But if people are isolated, they aren’t having unprotected sex or sharing needles.

Yeah, but here’s where we get into risk, precautions, and civil liberties. It’s equally true that punishing a DUI with life in prison would cut down on vehicular manslaughter but we don’t do it because we’re willing to tolerate a certain amount of risk of that happening to protect the liberty of the DUI convict. People knew the risk in 1992 of having unprotected sex or sharing needles. That doesn’t mean they deserved to get HIV any more than someone who starts smoking deserves to get cancer, but between quarantining 200,000 people versus launching a public education campaign to use condoms and clean needles, why go with the former?

How many of you guys are in favor of closing down the tobacco industry? It would save a lot of lives.

Allahpundit on December 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

Which variant of the common cold is fatal in 100% of cases?

Which variant of AIDS is communicable by casual contact? None. Quarantines are only done if a deadly virus is spread by air or touch. Neither of which happens with AIDS.

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

contracted AIDS has been intentionally over estimated, hence giving the general public at largely a false perception of the communicability of the HIV/HTLV virus

.

“The worldwide total of people infected with HIV — estimated a year ago at nearly 40 million and rising — now will be reported as 33 million. “

Ah yes, no danger at all.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:23 PM

Touchy question.

One thing that is difficult if not impossible to argue with is that homosexual behavior – promiscuity and all – has been a major factor in the spread of AIDS. But so have drug abuse and prostitution.

Limerick on December 8, 2007 at 3:54 PM

Casual contact is not the problem. I’ve known people with AIDS and those whose family members had AIDS. I don’t have it.

Unless I read the Fox News article incorrectly, no one (not even Huck himself) said that you “just can” get AIDS. The problem lies in how widespread those issues are in our society.

But, he is right in saying that public policy toward AIDS is whacked out.

Valiant on December 8, 2007 at 3:56 PM

Agreed.

Ryan Gandy on December 8, 2007 at 4:23 PM

I think we need to get Huck behind the wheel of a tank. He would look great, really.

BDavis on December 8, 2007 at 4:24 PM

Huckabee is right about one thing – AIDS was treated as a “civil rights” issue and political-correctness prevailed instead of common sense for a very long time.

For example:

Sweden was the first country (3/8/1983) to mandate the reporting of confirmed and suspected cases of AIDS. They added to that by promulgating recommendations for infection control in March of 1985. The US statement on Universal Precautions was recommended by the Centers for Disease Control in 1985, but was not mandated until the 1991 OSHA Bloodborne Pathogens Standard, which applied to all health care settings.

AND

By 1/97 only 11 states classified HIV as a sexually transmitted disease and 12 authorized physicians to inform sexual partners of HIV patients of their status. Early in June of 1998, New York State classified HIV as a sexually transmitted disease and required partner notification. This was done in an attempt to stem the spread of the disease. Data from 1996 indicate that the state had 13,000 new cases of HIV reported but only 350 people were notified they had been exposed.

Moreover, it was observed as early as 1989 that circumcised men in Africa are far less likely to contract or spread the disease, yet because of “cultural sensitivity” there was a reluctance to promote this until 2005 when medical trials made the evidence incontrovertible.

Buy Danish on December 8, 2007 at 4:30 PM

His explanation: We weren’t sure what caused the disease in 1992 — an assertion that will no doubt be challenged by AIDS awareness advocates — and so it was better to be safe than sorry.

this doesn’t wash.

1986 – koop called for sex education in regards to aids.

switzerland also started blood testing in 1986 as well.

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 4:31 PM

15 years ago.

Spirit of 1776 on December 8, 2007 at 4:32 PM

dogsoldier, supra:

According to the CDC the AIDS virus can live in any bodily fluid and on surfaces for up to 72 hours.

As an RN who’s board certified in HIV and who works in a facility devoted to finding a cure, let me chime in here.

The ability of the virus to survive ex vivo is not proof that it’s transmitted ex vivo. We now have 25 years of experience with HIV. We know how it’s transmitted. This is what the CDC says:

Some people fear that HIV might be transmitted in other ways; however, no scientific evidence to support any of these fears has been found. If HIV were being transmitted through other routes (such as through air, water, or insects), the pattern of reported AIDS cases would be much different from what has been observed. For example, if mosquitoes could transmit HIV infection, many more young children and preadolescents would have been diagnosed with AIDS.

All reported cases suggesting new or potentially unknown routes of transmission are thoroughly investigated by state and local health departments with the assistance, guidance, and laboratory support from CDC. No additional routes of transmission have been recorded, despite a national sentinel system designed to detect just such an occurrence. [Emphasis in original.]

As for this:

A rational consideration of infection vectors leads one to conclude quarantine of carriers may not be a bad idea, considering cases of infected persons deliberately spreading the disease.

Should we also view cases of gun owners deliberately and unlawfully shooting others as an argument for confiscating all firearms, or for preemptively jailing their owners?

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 4:34 PM

Quarantines are only done if a deadly virus is spread by air or touch. Neither of which happens with AIDS.

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

You may be correct. However, if an exception to your rule had been made in this case, 45,000 people a year in the US would not being dying from AIDS.

We have less than that many deaths from traffic, and the precautions we take for preventing drinking are far more severe: carding, closing businesses that don’t card undercover cops, roadblocks, and jailtime. If we treated drunk driving as severely as needle-sharing (as distinct from the drug use itself), drunk driving enforcement would be limited to giving away free drinks at home.

I’m not necessarily arguing we should isolate people, I’m just saying that opinion does not imply that someone believes AIDS is spread by casual contact.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:35 PM

“You treat others the way you’d like to be treated,” he said. “That’s to me the fundamental issue that has to be re-established in our dealings with other countries.”

This is one of my main problems with Huckabee – he also said this about his foreign policy recently: “But more importantly, the role of foreign policy is one of character and understanding what your principles are and then surrounding yourself with good advice. And the ultimate thing is, I may not be the expert that some people are on foreign policy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.”

I could SCREAM that nobody is calling him on his utter ridiculousness where foreign policy is concerned.

The fundamental issue of foreign policy is to determine what is best for America and to do what it takes to accomplish those goals. Nothing more, nothing less. I could give a crap less about character, understanding principals, and the golden rule in this arena. Those things are critical in our personal lives, but the foreign policy of a nation is entirely different. It should be a ruthless quest for what’s best for the country. Sometimes that will mean being “nice” and when that happens that’s great. But being nice should never be the primary goal. And if he doesn’t understand that, he’s not qualified.

Laura on December 8, 2007 at 4:36 PM

the foreign policy of a nation is entirely different. It should be a ruthless quest for what’s best for the country.

Fan of Putin are we?:)

Spirit of 1776 on December 8, 2007 at 4:39 PM

Should we also view cases of gun owners deliberately and unlawfully shooting others as an argument for confiscating all firearms, or for preemptively jailing their owners?

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 4:34 PM

If purchasing and getting trained in the use of AIDS prevented you from getting infected, then your analogy would work.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:41 PM

Both the Huck and the Rudy supporters remind me of the dog in Aesops Fable, The Dog and the Shadow.

A DOG, crossing a bridge over a stream with a piece of flesh in his mouth, saw his own shadow in the water and took it for that of another Dog, with a piece of meat double his own in size. He immediately let go of his own, and fiercely attacked the other Dog to get his larger piece from him. He thus lost both: that which he grasped at in the water, because it was a shadow; and his own, because the stream swept it away.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 4:48 PM

I think we need to get Huck behind the wheel of a tank. He would look great, really.

BDavis on December 8, 2007 at 4:24 PM

Point of information: tanks don’t have steering wheels.

bnelson44 on December 8, 2007 at 4:56 PM

Ah yes, no danger at all.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 4:23 PM

I never said or suggested that it was no danger at all, I merely pointed out that the number of cases reported was intentional over reported giving the public a false perception of the communicability of the HIV/HTLV virus.

You may be correct. However, if an exception to your rule had been made in this case, 45,000 people a year in the US would not being dying from AIDS.

45,000 people are not dying per year of AIDS in the US and at no point in the past did the death toll ever reach 45,000 per year. 1995 was the worst year in US history for AIDS deaths at slightly over 41,000 and the rate sharply declined every year after that in 2005 it was slightly over 17,000.
Contrast that as you did to the number of US traffic fatalities which for 2006 were slightly over 44,000.

doriangrey on December 8, 2007 at 5:01 PM

pedestrian, supra:

If purchasing and getting trained in the use of AIDS prevented you from getting infected, then your analogy would work.

Well, unless you plan to purchase AIDS and get trained in its use, my analogy works anyway. You can prevent your infection with HIV. The routes of transmission are known. If you avoid them, you’ll avoid the virus. You’ve managed that so far, even in the absence of a quarantine, yes?

Everyone of us who owns a firearm is a potential danger to others. After all, people who legally own guns do sometimes use them unlawfully. And in contrast to the sexual or IVDU transmission of HIV, gun violence doesn’t usually give its victims a choice.

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 5:03 PM

Fan of Putin are we?:)

Spirit of 1776 on December 8, 2007 at 4:39 PM

I think Putin’s on a ruthless quest to do what’s best for Putin.

Laura on December 8, 2007 at 5:04 PM

Laura on December 8, 2007 at 5:04 PM

An opinion that seems not be held by the majority of the citizenry. Either way, it is merely in this case, the motive that would disturb you, not the action. That’s fine though, everyone is welcome to their view.

Spirit of 1776 on December 8, 2007 at 5:09 PM

Well, that is what we USED to do with infectious diseases in this country,, isolate them! What’s the big deal??! Ooops,, my bad,, we no longer isolate GAY infectious diseas because,, well, their gay. And everybody knows gay people are special. Sorry bout that!

JellyToast on December 8, 2007 at 5:16 PM

my analogy works anyway.

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 5:03 PM

Your analogy was right on target.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 5:17 PM

Huckster, tapdancing.

Get the man a saxophone instead of a bass.

profitsbeard on December 8, 2007 at 5:25 PM

Well, that is what we USED to do with infectious diseases in this country,, isolate them!…

JellyToast on December 8, 2007 at 5:16 PM

Name one example and explain how that diseases communicability is in any way relevant to this discussion about AIDS.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 5:26 PM

The more I hear about Huckabee, his prior positions and pronouncements, along with the things he’s saying today, the only reason I could encourage anyone to vote for him is if they have an insane desire to find out what it’d be like to have the Jimmy Carter Presidency back again, only this time, masquerading as a Republican.

Wind Rider on December 8, 2007 at 5:26 PM

I’m not impressed with Huck’s response. First off his statement was made in 1992 and his position then should be based on the state of knowledge then and not based on the fact that we were learning about it in the late 80’s.

Here’s the CDC surveillance report for HIV/AIDS issued in March of 1992. If you skip down to Table 4 you will see the the tabulation of “AIDS cases by age group, exposure category, and race/ethnicity, reported through February 1992, United States”. The top three exposure methods listed were:

– Men who have sex with men
– Injecting drug use
– Men who have sex with men and injecting drug use

Cases in these categories comprised 87% of the 208,000 total cases identified by the report.

The exposure categories are detailed and comprehensive. It was near certain what the means of transmission were. The one exposure category, it seems to me, that was still of concern was that caused via the blood transfusions, blood components and tissue and the number of those cases were id’d at about 4,100. I’d have to check back further to verify that this was already the general understanding for a several years, but my recollection is that it was.

To my mind, Huck was as clueless about AIDS back then as he was about the NIE in the last couple of days and his clarification here is good part of the evidence of it.

Dusty on December 8, 2007 at 5:45 PM

Besides a quarantine, Huckabee suggested that Hollywood celebrities fund AIDS research from their own pockets, rather than federal health agencies.

Did I read that right?

So, in 1992, Huckabee’s plan to stop the spread of AIDS was to cut off federal funding of AIDS research and quarantine AIDS patients. What an odd proposal. He thought AIDS was a “genuine plague,” requiring the detention of 200,000 U.S. citizens, but he didn’t want federal resources used to study the disease. Was Hollywood supposed to pay for the quarantine centers, too?

I love his defense. “I was an idiot in 1992, but I’m all better now.”

RightOFLeft on December 8, 2007 at 5:45 PM

Whoops! Forgot the CDC link.

Dusty on December 8, 2007 at 5:46 PM

We weren’t sure what caused the disease in 1992 — an assertion that will no doubt be challenged by AIDS awareness advocates — and so it was better to be safe than sorry. Now that we know, no need for a quarantine, obviously.

That is utter nonsense.

Back in 1990, where I worked at the time, it was “announced” that one of my close co-workers wife was close to dieing from aids and he was infected with it. She had got it from a blood transfusion just before they started testing blood donations for it, and he got it from her.

There was no talk of a quarantine. None of us were afraid of catching it from him and in fact he stayed at work for a while and then came back to work after his wife died for a time. He is still alive as far as I know.

MB4 on December 8, 2007 at 6:04 PM

According to the CDC the AIDS virus can live in any bodily fluid and on surfaces for up to 72 hours.

dogsoldier on December 8, 2007 at 3:37 PM

So if you drew up some of someones body fluids, or some fluid on some surface from them, in a syringe and injected it into one of your veins you might get it.

MB4 on December 8, 2007 at 6:09 PM

If it was infecting school-kids, there would definitely be isolation.

Kinda like we do with the common cold.

lorien1973 on December 8, 2007 at 4:12 PM

And doesn’t the common cold end up killing more people anyways?

CTDeLude on December 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

I love his defense. “I was an idiot in 1992, but I’m all better now.”

RightOFLeft on December 8, 2007 at 5:45 PM

Heh. Watching Huck is like watching my kids play a game of Junga. As more and more of the foundation blocks are removed, you wait for the tower to fall.

BacaDog on December 8, 2007 at 6:19 PM

The one compelling argument that isolation wouldn’t work is that if AIDS itself doesn’t deter risky behavior, then government intervention isn’t going to work either.

If someone came up with an isolation precaution that was even moderately effective, then the argument for it would be quite strong. I would even expect that gays, drug users, and hookers would be the most strongly in favor of it, since they are the ones really impacted by AIDS, apart from insurance premiums.

My guess why gays are so adamant about no isolation (and isolation would not really affect non-gay civil liberties), is that it would feed a stereotype of that lifestyle as being inherently promiscuous. Apparently they would rather live with 45,000 AIDS diagnoses per year (not deaths as I incorrectly said above).

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 6:24 PM

That doesn’t mean they deserved to get HIV any more than someone who starts smoking deserves to get cancer, but between quarantining 200,000 people versus launching a public education campaign to use condoms and clean needles, why go with the former?

Allahpundit on December 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

Because with public education there are still 17,000 per dying. And isolation is not the same as quarantining.

How many of you guys are in favor of closing down the tobacco industry? It would save a lot of lives.

I am.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 6:30 PM

My guess why gays are so adamant about no isolation (and isolation would not really affect non-gay civil liberties), is that it would feed a stereotype of that lifestyle as being inherently promiscuous. Apparently they would rather live with 45,000 AIDS diagnoses per year (not deaths as I incorrectly said above).

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 6:24 PM

OK, gotcha, and yes the homosexual community apparently is willing to suffer a catastrophic pandemic rather than allow even the merest suggestion that their chosen lifestyle is anything other than wholesome and natural to spread through the public conscience.

doriangrey on December 8, 2007 at 6:31 PM

I would even expect that gays, drug users, and hookers would be the most strongly in favor of it, since they are the ones really impacted by AIDS, apart from insurance premiums.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 6:24 PM

Don’t count on it. I think that a vast majority of Americans would be mortified at the prospect of the government rounding up tens of thousands of law abiding citizens and putting them in quarantine camps because they have AIDS. Most people would realize the likelihood that those with AIDS would be the only ones targeted is remote. After they’ve all been rounded up, other groups of “immoral” people would likely be rounded up also. Who can presume to know where the righteous would draw the line and end their campaign of moral cleansing?

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 6:37 PM

I am.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 6:30 PM

It sounds like Huckabee is the perfect candidate for you.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 6:38 PM

So every one who contracted AIDs did so knowingly and voluntarily because it can not spread otherwise?

Right.

AZCON on December 8, 2007 at 6:47 PM

I think that a vast majority of Americans would be mortified at the prospect of the government rounding up tens of thousands of law abiding citizens and putting them in quarantine camps because they have AIDS.

Its the nature of an infectious disease that if you irradicate it once, then it is gone. Getting rid of it in Africa is a whole other matter, but at least the incidence in the US would drop sharply, so the isolation would drop off accordingly. To me that is a price worth paying, especially considering those very people are destined for a hospice anyway.

After they’ve all been rounded up, other groups of “immoral” people would likely be rounded up also.

Yes, and if we allow curbside garbage pickup before you know it they will be coming after lawn furniture. Saving 17,000 lives a year is worth taking a risk for a few years that the government won’t go completely bonkers.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 6:47 PM

I wouldn’t put it past Fred to go after Huckabee on this. May be projecting a bit here but Fred seems a little more independent from the Dobsons of the world than perhaps is good for him.

I would think Huck’s numbers will start going south – especially in New Hampshire but even in Iowa.

rick moran on December 8, 2007 at 6:52 PM

Come on Iowa. Are you serious? Huckabee? Really? Huck is fully qualified to give a fine concession speech. Full of gratitude, graciousness, healing and calls for bipartisan cooperation. Blech! We need a winner not that milktoast. Gdamnit!

ronsfi on December 8, 2007 at 6:56 PM

Winner=Barenuckle brawler.

ronsfi on December 8, 2007 at 6:58 PM

I would think Huck’s numbers will start going south – especially in New Hampshire but even in Iowa.

rick moran on December 8, 2007 at 6:52 PM

I hope you’re right, but I can’t help but feel that a large share of Huck’s supporters probably agree with his past position on AIDS, or are at least sympathetic with it. I remember some years ago there were a lot of religious zealots who felt that AIDS was Gods wrath for immoral behavior. While it would be nice to think that those people are few and far between, those sentiments may still be strong in some circles. If so, there may just be enough of them who are politically active and likely to vote in the primaries who support the notion that Gods wrath against gay people should be left to run it’s course that Huck might be propelled to the top of the Republican ticket.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 7:08 PM

For those who think “quarantine” or “isolation” a viable choice, the CDC estimates that as many as 1.2 million Americans are HIV-infected. (That’s nearly one in 300.)

How would we “quarantine” all of these people? By subjecting them to house arrest? And if so, would we pay their mortgages and utility bills, and provide them with food, clothes and cable TV? Or would we gather them up into concentration camps and then provide them with food, clothes and cable TV? But in either case, does anybody want to calculate the tally on that little bill?

Of course, Mr. Huckabee is a tax and spend guy, so he might not find the cost prohibitive. Tuition credits for illegal aliens, and subsidized leisure for homosexuals. Now that’s what I call a platform, baby! We would so mop the floor with Hillary’s ass.

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 7:08 PM

After they’ve all been rounded up, other groups of “immoral” people would likely be rounded up also. Who can presume to know where the righteous would draw the line and end their campaign of moral cleansing?
FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 6:37 PM

What fatuous hyperbole. If people with AIDS had been isolated it would have had nothing to do with “righteousness”, anymore than isolating people with Tuberculosis is done out of some sense of moral virtue.

Indeed, it is useful to read this 1997 article, from David Horowitz, who, along with Peter Collier, tried to “educate” those who were most at risk in San Francisco circa 1983 – to no avail.

The fact is that there was a lethal reluctance refusal on the part of leaders of the “gay rights movement” to take responsibility for their own fate early on. Education, including statements from the Surgeon General can only do so much if a powerful group is determined to deny reality and demonize the messengers.

For further edification, here is a later piece by Horowitz written in June 2001. The 20TH Anniversary of an American Killing Fields.

Buy Danish on December 8, 2007 at 7:18 PM

It sounds like Huckabee is the perfect candidate for you.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 6:38 PM

Huckabee doesn’t especially appeal to me because of his taxing proclivity, but shutting down tobacco farms seems no more nanny-statish than shutting down abortion mills. One could say that it is an adult choice to smoke, but they do market to kids and rely on the addiction to stay in business.

For those who think “quarantine” or “isolation” a viable choice, the CDC estimates that as many as 1.2 million Americans are HIV-infected. (That’s nearly one in 300.)

And what was it in 1992?

If so, there may just be enough of them who are politically active and likely to vote in the primaries who support the notion that Gods wrath against gay people should be left to run it’s course that Huck might be propelled to the top of the Republican ticket.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 7:08 PM

But Huck didn’t want it to just run its course. There’s only two ways to get rid of AIDS. A cure or isolation. While a cure is probably inevitable, how many people will die in the meantime because people are afraid to take the steps necessary to contain an infectious disease?

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 7:26 PM

My guess why gays are so adamant about no isolation (and isolation would not really affect non-gay civil liberties), is that it would feed a stereotype of that lifestyle as being inherently promiscuous. Apparently they would rather live with 45,000 AIDS diagnoses per year (not deaths as I incorrectly said above).

A lot of Americans who value liberty would be adamant about the government not isolating them. With regard to promiscuity the behavior of a lot of single guys would lead one to find heterosexuality as inherently promiscuous. The new AIDS diagnoses each year is something that no one rational wants, but there are steps short of isolation that people can take to protect themselves.

dedalus on December 8, 2007 at 7:28 PM

But Huck didn’t want it to just run its course. There’s only two ways to get rid of AIDS. A cure or isolation….

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 7:26 PM

Huck clearly wanted to let it run its course because he advocated cutting off funding for a cure.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 7:36 PM

One more point for our fanciful discussion. Of Americans living with HIV, half of them are black. If you think we’ll ever round up 600,000 African-Americans and shipped them off to quarantine, all I can tell you is: molon labe. You would get to see the Second Amendment in action.

All intellectual masturbation aside, it will never happen.

And in the unlikely event that Mr. Huckabee is our nominee, I suggest we cease discussion of anything that might be perceived as code for the quarantine of blacks. For that is surely how an astute Democrat would spin it, and to devastating effect.

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Huck clearly wanted to let it run its course because he advocated cutting off funding for a cure.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 7:36 PM

If I see a source for that besides Associated Press, then I will believe it.

I suggest we cease discussion of anything that might be perceived as code for the quarantine of blacks. For that is surely how an astute Democrat would spin it, and to devastating effect.

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Yes, its more important to seem PC than to save lives. If they do start spinning that way, then maybe the blacks will finally clue in to what the Democrats are doing to them.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 7:54 PM

And in the unlikely event that Mr. Huckabee is our nominee, I suggest we cease discussion of anything that might be perceived as code for the quarantine of blacks. For that is surely how an astute Democrat would spin it, and to devastating effect.

paul006 on December 8, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Oh please! This spin is entirely your own invention. They can use your spin if they want to sound even more foolish than they already do.

Buy Danish on December 8, 2007 at 7:56 PM

I’d like to have the Huckster quarantined.

Tzetzes on December 8, 2007 at 7:57 PM

Who cares about this? I wanna know if Huck still thinks Canada’s parliament building is an igloo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo

Drum on December 8, 2007 at 3:29 PM

But…he’s college educated (as per the video).
He’s got a doctorate in God.

Tzetzes on December 8, 2007 at 8:00 PM

Huck clearly wanted to let it run its course because he advocated cutting off funding for a cure.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 7:36 PM

I recall there was a feeling around that time that funding was disproportionately favoring AIDS over other diseases that affected more people. The counter-argument was that AIDS incidence would grow more because it was an infectious disease. So Huck’s position may have been that, well, if it is an infectious disease then let’s treat it as an infectious disease.

I don’t recall when it became evident that it was pandemic in Africa.

pedestrian on December 8, 2007 at 8:31 PM

If Huck keeps stumbling, Fred could take Iowa. Romney loosing Iowa to Huck or Fred could mean McCain winning NH.

That bodes well for McCain

bnelson44 on December 8, 2007 at 8:32 PM

See, that’s why we should’ve elected John Edwards!
If he can make Superman walk, he can prob’ly cure AIDS too.

Tzetzes on December 8, 2007 at 8:59 PM

THIS JUST IN: HUCKABEE HAS AIDES!

Tzetzes on December 8, 2007 at 8:59 PM

According to the CDC the AIDS virus can live in any bodily fluid and on surfaces for up to 72 hours.

Here are two CDC fact sheets. The odds of getting it that way are remote.

Allahpundit on December 8, 2007 at 3:45 PM

Problem is that the dentist case did happen, however remote the chance of it happening. Back in 1986, I had 4 children in elementary school. Many of us were concerned about the possibility that it could be spread by body fluids, as that age group is notoriously unconcerned with nose-wiping, sneezing, coughing, etc. The “scare” died down eventually, but I wouldn’t be surprised to discover that the underlying worry is still there.

Much of my concern came because a girl I’d gone to school with had a rare blood disorder that required a transfusion. She received tainted blood and was diagnosed in early 1982 with HIV. Even though she spent the rest of her life with this disabilitating disease, she also spent it educating the public and she died a couple of years ago.

I don’t like Huckabee, but I really find his prior statements on HIV a non-issue.

That said, he does seem too easily swayed in his ideas about doing unto his neighbor and turning the other cheek. Not what I want or expect in a CIC.

Connie on December 8, 2007 at 9:35 PM

Before a disease can be cured and contained we need to know exactly how and with near certainty what level of contact transmits the disease.

.

Back in 1992 I was amazed that many people were claiming that a cure for AIDS needed to be found.

I am not a med student (my mom was a lab tech however) and it is easy to see that THERE HAS BEEN NO VIRUS THAT WE CAN CURE yet somehow that missed everyone that wanted to find a cure for AIDS.

I would rather focus lab time on problems like cancer rather then BS problems like finding a cure for the AIDS VIRUS.

F15Mech on December 8, 2007 at 10:24 PM

With every passing day I see more and more hit pieces against Huckabee on this blog and at michellemalkin.com. I’m beginning to wonder if both sites are being paid by one of the campaigns. I’ll be the first to admit that Huckabee has some baggage but he was never given a fair consideration at either site.

Huckabee is not perfect.

At the state level, he did support some tax hikes, but I believe him when he signed the no tax pledge.

He did support allowing children of illegal immigrants to compete for scholarships, but he couldn’t really do much as governor to secure the border and was mandated by federal law to educate children of illegals. Given his situation, I think he tried to make the best of it. Many conservatives take too much of a hard line in this area.

He let it be known that he doubted the guilt of a convicted rapist and killer. He was released and went on to kill again. It was obviously the worst outcome imaginable and I feel nothing but sorrow for the families (and I have actually met the widower of one), but I believe he did what he felt was right at the time.

And in this case he advocated the quarantine of those infected with HIV. The country was very different 15 years ago and HIV was still very scary to a lot of people. Did he know that HIV was not spread through air or touch? Maybe. But what if HIV had mutated to an airborne strain? What if it had become the global pandemic the world has feared? We’d be crucifying everyone who didn’t take the proper steps to protect the general population because “they should have known.”

Huckabee certainly isn’t perfect, but he has one thing that no other candidate has: character. I’ll take character over empty promises any day. It looks like most of America agrees with me.

Spacen on December 8, 2007 at 11:03 PM

How many of you guys are in favor of closing down the tobacco industry? It would save a lot of lives.

Allahpundit on December 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

According to Ace, Huck is/was in favor of that too.

baldilocks on December 8, 2007 at 11:09 PM

Huckabee certainly isn’t perfect, but he has one thing that no other candidate has: character. I’ll take character over empty promises any day.

Any explanation as to the need for a Mexican embassy in Arkansas?

a capella on December 8, 2007 at 11:10 PM

With every passing day I see more and more hit pieces against Huckabee on this blog and at michellemalkin.com. I’m beginning to wonder if both sites are being paid by one of the campaigns. I’ll be the first to admit that Huckabee has some baggage but he was never given a fair consideration at either site.

Spacen on December 8, 2007 at 11:03 PM

Oh, please, supporters of every other Republican candidate have made that exact same claim time and again. Allahpundit once said that he was leaning toward Huckabee so that shoots your theory down before it even got off the ground.

If Republicans don’t vet their candidates now during the primary and choose the best one, it will be left up to the MSM instead who will do it during the general when it’s too late to correct a mistake. If you think conservatives and Republicans are harsh on Huckabee how do you think the rest of the electorate is going to treat him?

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 11:25 PM

I am not a med student (my mom was a lab tech however) and it is easy to see that THERE HAS BEEN NO VIRUS THAT WE CAN CURE yet somehow that missed everyone that wanted to find a cure for AIDS.

I would rather focus lab time on problems like cancer rather then BS problems like finding a cure for the AIDS VIRUS.

F15Mech on December 8, 2007 at 10:24 PM

Polio, smallpox…

They’re vaccines, not “cures”, but I’ll take ‘em!

Big S on December 8, 2007 at 11:28 PM

Huckabee certainly isn’t perfect, but he has one thing that no other candidate has: character.

Really? Is that why he continues to…nuance his record as governor? So far, Huckabee has played fast and loose with the truth regarding tax hikes in Arkansas and illegal immigration scholarships. His campaign has been far too cute explaining away his faith-based politics, and it’s looking as though he was dishonest about his role in the Dumond pardon.

Frankly, I expect more from a guy who puts “Christian leader” in his ads.

Slublog on December 8, 2007 at 11:33 PM

Well after the “Compassionate Conservative” I guess I will have to vote for the “Liberal Conservative”, no wait I will vote for the “Evolving Conservative”, no wait I will vote for the “Campaign Finance Conservative”, no wait I guess I will vote for the “Acts Like He Is Moving In Slow Motion Conservative”.

Hmmm, I guess I will vote for Huckabee after all.

moughon on December 8, 2007 at 11:33 PM

He let it be known that he doubted the guilt of a convicted rapist and killer. He was released and went on to kill again. It was obviously the worst outcome imaginable and I feel nothing but sorrow for the families (and I have actually met the widower of one), but I believe he did what he felt was right at the time.

Spacen on December 8, 2007 at 11:03 PM

As I recall from Huckabees response to a question on this topic the other day, he denied any responsibility and blamed everybody but himself. He flatly stated that the people on the parole board who claimed otherwise were lying for political reasons. Later that day we learned that Huckabee’s own assistant at the time agreed with the parole board that Huckabee lobbied for the guys’ release.

FloatingRock on December 8, 2007 at 11:42 PM

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