Study: Prejudice against Mormons much more intense than against blacks, women; Update: New Globe piece on Mitt’s illegal landscapers
posted at 6:18 pm on December 4, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Pathetic. I hope he knocks it out of the park on Thursday night.
Key findings of the study include:
# Bias against Mormons is significantly more intense among the public compared to bias against women and blacks. The bias against Mormons is even more pronounced among conservative Evangelicals. Their bias against Mormons rivals their bias against atheists.
# Only about half the nation claims to even know a Mormon or to know that Romney is Mormon.
# The extent of the bias against Romney is moderated if the individual already knows that he is Mormon. That information seems to demystify the Mormon religion, making people more tolerant of the religion. Those who do not know Romney is Mormon exhibit much greater bias upon learning of his religion.
That last bullet point suggests a certain wisdom to giving the speech, but note well from elsewhere in the release: “[S]imple appeals for religious tolerance do not win over support for Romney from the respondents.” As feared.
In other news, he just launched a depth charge on a scandal that was creeping up silently behind him.
Update: Here’s that scandal in the making he just torpedoed.
Despite a Globe story in Dec. 2006 that highlighted Romney’s use of illegal immigrants to tend to his lawn, Romney continued to employ the same landscaping company – until today. The landscaping company, in turn, continued to employ illegal immigrants.
Two of the workers confirmed in separate interviews with Globe reporters last week that they were in the country without documents. One said he had paid $7,000 to a smuggler to escort him across the desert into Arizona; the other said he had come to the country with a student visa that was now expired. Both were seen on the lawn by either Globe reporters or photographers over the last two months.
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Ha caught me off gaurd using “study and survey” instead of Poll… I’llabee more carefull from now on.
amend2 on December 4, 2007 at 6:22 PM
Allahpundit…have you endorsed anyone yet? If not, what have you narrowed down the list to?
Jay on December 4, 2007 at 6:22 PM
Oh, I doubt I’ll support any of them. None of them are compelling and I live in NY so my vote doesn’t matter anyway.
Allahpundit on December 4, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Man, I’m glad I’m not a Mormon black woman.
peski on December 4, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Not if the part I emphisised is correct.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Why do so many Evangelical “Christians” seem to hate, or if you will “hate”, Mormons?
I like them and I am an atheist.
Maybe because I don’t consider them to be the competition?
No, I would not hate, or if you will “hate”, them anyway.
Christ must be weeping.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 6:24 PM
I wonder how they poll against atheists.
Allahpundit on December 4, 2007 at 6:24 PM
It would in the primaries
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:24 PM
But I guess I’m already in trouble.
peski on December 4, 2007 at 6:24 PM
Many denominations consider the Mormon religion a cult and also do not consider Mormons Christians. It might be a good idea to research these views to come to an understanding why they view Mormons as they do. Just because they do feel this way does not necessarily make them intolerant or biased against Mormons. It does show that they disagree with the tenets of the Mormon religion.
Hopefully, having a Mormon running for President might make discussions and debates bring a better understanding of the views of both sides. People can be respectful of someone they disagree with.
katieanne on December 4, 2007 at 6:25 PM
That’s interesting, since his rhetoric on this has always made it sound like it was something that happened a while back and was taken care of, rather than something that was ongoing until today.
Big S on December 4, 2007 at 6:27 PM
As I mentioned before it is because of competition. Mormons actively evangelize Christians trying to convert them to LDS. The more you love your religion the more animosity you have for someone taking people away from it. The more you evangelize the less you want others evangelizing and cutting into your market.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:27 PM
They should have used Scientology for comparison- not blacks, women, and atheists.
Valiant on December 4, 2007 at 6:27 PM
I’d like to know a bit more about the study. Not too many details are given on the site. I have no doubt that there is a bias among different groups of people against Mormonism, but all I see in that release are broad generalities. An internet survey? How was it conducted? Am I missing something?
nailinmyeye on December 4, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Really sick and tired of this argument. There is nothing….n o t h i n g…in Mormonism that endangers my country, my family, or my dogs. We should be discussing the Constitution and the Federalist Papers….but nooooooooooooo
it is about what God (or lack thereof) you pray to. Save all that crap for St.Peter or the random quantum flux (whichever you prefer).
I hope Mitt (who isn’t my choice of candidate), gets up to the mike and tells everyone to take a hike on questions of his religion. That just might get me to vote for the fella.
Limerick on December 4, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Well, he said he gave them a second chance because they promised to clean up their act. An almost Huckabee-esque act of mercy!
Allahpundit on December 4, 2007 at 6:28 PM
I agree. The implication is that Mitt thought he had it handled & let it drift, Rudy dug up some recent evidence before the debate, Mitt found same afterwards, and now this.
peski on December 4, 2007 at 6:28 PM
True. EVERYBODY hates Scientologists.
peski on December 4, 2007 at 6:30 PM
Just looks like typical politics to me.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:30 PM
Ditto!
Yeah what gives?
TheSitRep on December 4, 2007 at 6:32 PM
This poll shows a Mormon gets elected over an atheist
Pam on December 4, 2007 at 6:33 PM
If I get offered one more free stress test, I think my arteries will explode.
nailinmyeye on December 4, 2007 at 6:33 PM
I don’t think explaining that God had sexual intercourse with Mary, that he has many other wives, that there are many other gods just like God, that he lives on some planet somewhere with his wives, and that Jesus was his physical son and also has many wives, etc. Will help much.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:33 PM
Mitt, being Mr steady eddy could pull out the republican nomination.
lorien1973 on December 4, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Here is a link from the Southern Baptist Convention site with a discussion of the Mormon faith. An interesting read.
http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enamb%2Enet%2Fatf%2Fcf%2F%7BCDA250E8%2D8866%2D4236%2D9A0C%2DC646DE153446%7D%2FBB%5Fmormon%5Ftruth%2Epdf&key=Mormons&title=What%5Fis%5Fthe%5FTruth%5FFeb%5F2001%2EPDF&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES
Here are some more articles.
http://www.sbc.net/search/sbcsearchengine.asp?cmd=search&SearchForm=%25%25SearchForm%25%25&indexcode=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES&fuzzy=&stemming=&phonic=&natLang=&maxFiles=10&request=Mormons&Submit=Search
katieanne on December 4, 2007 at 6:35 PM
That’s the same problem everybody has when it comes to immigration. You can talk tough all you want, but when you’re face to face with that immigrant and/or see them at work on a daily basis, sometimes it gets a lot harder to pick up that phone and call the authorities.
Big S on December 4, 2007 at 6:36 PM
read this study:
Geer said that while there have been a handful of surveys about Mormons and possible discrimination, they have relied for the most part on people simply indicating if they would be willing to vote for a Mormon for president.
“People today might say they would vote for a woman, Mormon, African American or other minority, when, in fact, they have no intention to do so,” he said. “They may not want to be labeled a bigot, so they give a socially acceptable answer. We address this problem in our study.” Geer said the study also looked at the impact of various messages on people’s attitudes toward Romney.
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/news/releases/2007/12/4/new-vanderbilt-scientific-poll-reveals-intense-bias-against-mormons-romney-must-demystify-his-religion-to-gain-support
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:37 PM
If that is all there is to it, then why don’t they just “live and let live” then like they do with Jews, or say they do anyway?
Why is it even on the radar?
There seems to be more to it.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 6:37 PM
peski on December 4, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Based on the awkwardness of Rudy’s accusation in the debate, I don’t think he knew it was ongoing either. I get the distinct impression that Rudy was taking a cheap shot at him for something that happened in the past, and it turned out to be less cheap and past than he thought.
Big S on December 4, 2007 at 6:39 PM
Don’t care…don’t care….Bible, Torah, Kama Sutra, Toilet paper with magic marker on it, port-a-potty walls. Read what ya want to read and then follow the constitution and the laws of the land and you are good with me.
Limerick on December 4, 2007 at 6:41 PM
If everybody converted to Mormonism, where would they ride their bicycles to then, huh?
TheSitRep on December 4, 2007 at 6:41 PM
LOL AP, so now you’ll be suggesting you deserve rights too because you were born an atheist. You’ll say, ‘why would anyone CHOOSE to be atheist and suffer discrimination’. (I’m goofing on the militant gays).
LOL. Sorry just a funny brain fart.
ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 6:41 PM
The other wildcard is the Internet. Bloggers will be blogging the speech and emails will go out during and after the speech. What they will contain will have a lot to do with how people will talk about the speech the next day.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:43 PM
There’s nothing funny about farts. (From Ace)
Big S on December 4, 2007 at 6:44 PM
It’s being discussed and on the radar just like JFK’s Catholic faith was when he ran. It’s another first. It’s brought Mormons out to the forefront for discussion. I really don’t think it’s the huge issue people are making it. Just because everyone doesn’t hold the same opinion on the Mormon religion doesn’t have to mean there’s a hate or huge bias going on. Everyone doesn’t have to like everything or everyone. Doesn’t make make them bad people.
katieanne on December 4, 2007 at 6:44 PM
I used to have Jehovah’s Witnesses coming to my door, a lot, and if they had taken my neighbors away I would not have felt animosity towards them for it.
In fact, now that I think about it, the one set of neighbors … … …
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 6:46 PM
Yes, and it keeps getting said: Competition (for want of a better term).
Jews, for example, aren’t big on actively collecting new converts, and most evangelicals are more interested in winning to Christ people who never had a relationship with God in the first place; they’d be more likely to witness to an athiest than a Catholic, or Russian Orthodox. And since the evangelical sees Mormonism as an heretical cult, of course they’re upset to see people taken in by that same heretical cult.
Frozen Tex on December 4, 2007 at 6:48 PM
I’d like to point out that it is not illegal to be an immigrant and so there is no reason to pick up the phone and call the authorities when you see one.
I know what you meant, but you’ve got to be able to say what you mean, because if you can’t say what you mean, you can’t possibly mean what you say, and you can’t be an honest man if you don’t mean what you say.
factoid on December 4, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Where the hell is heresy in the Constitution?
Limerick on December 4, 2007 at 6:51 PM
But you are not devout. You are mystified by people who are devout Christians and who believe you are only saved through Jesus Christ having people from a non-Christian (yea it is really non-Christian) religion proselytizing to their flock. The more you are devout the more you resent it. It happens in all religions. The LDS just happen to be the evangelists who are taking Christians away from the Baptist and other evangelical churches. It has really nothing to do with Romney. This is pure human nature at work.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:51 PM
I’m an Evangelical. I don’t hate Mormons, or Mormonism. I don’t hate Romney, and I would vote for him in the general. Mormonism is, however, a faith system with which I disagree.
I think that among many Christians the issue comes down to the idea that Mormonism is not compatible with traditional orthodox Christianity. If it were the same, or even similar enough, Mormons would not be trying to convert Christians, and Christians would not be trying to convert Mormons. But, despite the distinctions between the two belief systems, Mormonism is portrayed as “Christian.” This is both true, and false, from two different angles. It might be considered “Christian” in that it is a faith that references, and claims to be founded upon, Jesus Christ. On the other hand, because it is incommensurate with traditional orthodox Christianity, many Christians would disavow it. Evangelicals may find it difficult to get behind Romney because it could feel as if they are lending legitimacy to a faith system with which they have core disagreements. I am only speculating, however.
Personally, I have no hard feelings towards Mormons. I have had many friends who were Mormon, and have had a number of spirited debates with them. I disagree with them on the nature and essence of faith in God. But I have a lot of love for them.
nailinmyeye on December 4, 2007 at 6:53 PM
Yup, I can go with that.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Feb. ‘07 Gallup poll shows Mormans poll better for Pres. than:
those over 72
those married 3x or more
homosexuals
atheists (dead last)
JiangxiDad on December 4, 2007 at 6:54 PM
BINGO! You’ve got it!
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 6:56 PM
So kind of like the Roman Catholic Church was with Martin Luther then?
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 6:57 PM
Me too, actually. I hope the Right Reverend Huckabee will forgive me.
Frozen Tex on December 4, 2007 at 6:57 PM
*peace
Limerick on December 4, 2007 at 6:58 PM
If The High Reverend Huckabee becomes President, he will appoint U.S. Supreme Court Justices who will find it in there some place.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 6:59 PM
Not really, as Martin Luther didn’t make up something new on the spot; he felt the Church was exceeding its authority and had become greedy and corrupt.
Frozen Tex on December 4, 2007 at 7:00 PM
No, Martin Luther was always considered a Christian by the Church. Mormons are not considered Christian. Protestants and Catholics are two denominations of the same religion. Mormonism is a completely different religion and evangelicals consider them a cult.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:00 PM
What makes a person devout? I am Catholic, am I a Christian? My studies have told me so, but a member of the CRC explained to my neice that Catholics aren’t Christians…who decides this?
Pam on December 4, 2007 at 7:01 PM
Why Did Romney Fire the Lawn Company Now? [Byron York]
Because the Boston Globe was looking into it.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmZhOWRhYTllZjc5MjBhMTcwMTM2MmJiMjQ4ZTlhNzc=
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:03 PM
Really, what denomination/religion is that?
Pam on December 4, 2007 at 7:04 PM
I think it is funny how people lump all atheist into one group. I would propose that atheist are diverse as people are in general, only they are less likely to be felons or divorced.
Very much like Mormons hum?
TheSitRep on December 4, 2007 at 7:05 PM
The non-religious won’t understand. But if the ones who are wondering…if they wrote a book, and someone came along, took that book, changed a few words and began selling it as their own. Would you sue? Or would you let them steal your work and shrug your shoulders. Figure your million dollar book deal is now gone. You would be a little put off.
Well, for 2,000 years the Christians had a book, and it has been co-opted. This is not anything new, it has been around for 150 years. The irony is the arrogance of a new religion, distorting what Christians consider sacred, and then the new religion feigning disbelief. What? You mean Christians are offended by the belief that Jesus and Satan are spiritual brothers, born from the same God (that was once a man). That Jesus was a polygamist? Gee, I wonder why the Christians don’t like the doctrine of the Mormon’s? Why should Christians turn there back on false teachings in the name their God…you can bet Jesus didn’t turn the other cheek on that one. I think he pretty much kicked the false teachers asses (John 2:13-17 (also Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-18, Luke 19:45-46) ).
The Christians have thousands missionaries killed, murdered for their beliefs. Try bringing a bible into China, or the middle east and giving it away. We have had our savior on display in urine, and had transvestites march through our churches denigrating our most sacred worship area. They have held the bodies of fallen soldiers of all faiths, comforted their wives. We ask one thing, don’t abuse our sacred doctrines of the Trinity, Jesus, the Bible, hold our 2,000 year old doctrines (not as your own, that’s your business) sacred in the sense we are the foundation of anything you have invented. Attack it, fine, but don’t be so arrogant that you attack and not expect to be attacked back.
Maybe it is less prejudice, and more defensive.
right2bright on December 4, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Well certainly not someone who is trying to evangelize your sister. This is not as much of an issue for devout Catholics. I am not sure why (disclaimer I am a devout Catholic) but for us, maybe because we are so strong in a Church that has lasted over 2,000 years and is not about to go away, we don’t feel as threatened by other religions. Or maybe we don’t have the “fire in the belly” the evangelical churches do. In any case, this the trend is that devout evangelicals (and devout devotee of other religions) are very protective of other religions getting into their “turf” as it were. The one thing devout evangelicals do not want is for the “fastest growing religion” in the US to make the US a Mormon nation. They don’t want to give “the cult” any legitimacy.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Hence it happened that all the armed prophets conquered, all the unarmed perished.
- Niccolo Machiavelli
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Christianity
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Thanks for that..it made it more clear.
Pam on December 4, 2007 at 7:13 PM
As far as I know the only church that officially considers the LDS Church a Christian church is the LDS Church (maybe the Unitarians do as well, but they are mostly atheists now.)
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:15 PM
(*Allahpundit sits in his den, laughing, as he eats his potpie, while the kids punch each other out…..’traffic is good’, he says to himself.)
Limerick on December 4, 2007 at 7:16 PM
He’s counting the number of comments.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:17 PM
So then Evangelicals would never vote for Jews, Mormons, Atheist, Hindus, Buddists, Muslims ect?
This isnt a vote on the Bible. If the evangelicals deliver Huckabee as the nominee then the republican party might just explode.
Resolute on December 4, 2007 at 7:17 PM
The religion threads are too tedious to read, for the most part. So I’m uninformed. Why are people biased against Mormons? The linked article doesn’t explain.
jaime on December 4, 2007 at 7:19 PM
I’m not an Evangelical, nor do I “hate” Mormons.
I do, however, question the character and intelligence of Mormonism’s adherents. Mormon mythology is basically incredible — only a small step removed from the ridiculousness of Scientology — and several central tenets of the Mormon faith are, to my mind, absolutely odious. Why should I trust with high office someone who subscribes to contemptible hokum?
Centerfire on December 4, 2007 at 7:21 PM
It never ceases to amaze me, the lack of tolerance one Christian group has for another. The differences in their faiths are miniscule compared to their differences with say atheists, or Muslims or Buddhists. But they always seem to save the bulk of the venom for each other. Raised as a Baptist, the boogey man for us was always the Catholics or the Church of Christ.
I just never could understand it, still don’t.
conservnut on December 4, 2007 at 7:23 PM
bottom line from nailinmyeye: Evangelicals may find it difficult to get behind Romney because it could feel as if they are lending legitimacy to a faith system with which they have core disagreements.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:23 PM
They’re both denominations (versions, if you will) of one religion. That religion is called Christianity.
baldilocks on December 4, 2007 at 7:25 PM
Resolute brings up a good point, though. Doesn’t that disqualify pretty much anyone who isn’t an evangelical?
Slublog on December 4, 2007 at 7:25 PM
conservnut on December 4, 2007 at 7:23 PM
The differences between Mormons and Christians are pretty fundamental.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:26 PM
OK. Thanks, bnelson44. It doesn’t make much sense because he’s not asking to become pastor of their church. But I guess if that’s how they feel..
jaime on December 4, 2007 at 7:26 PM
You misunderstand me. I actually said that I would vote for Romney in the general. Let me be more clear: Evangelicals may find it difficult to endorse Romney because it could feel as if they are lending legitimacy to a faith system with which they have core disagreements.
I’m not a huge fan of Huckabee either - for a lot of reasons.
nailinmyeye on December 4, 2007 at 7:27 PM
Seems like it. Maybe that explains the Huckster.
jaime on December 4, 2007 at 7:27 PM
The big problems with the Mormons is that they evangelize Christians. They are competition. So it seems they feel they are legitimizing a faith that is in competition with them. And that faith is not even close to Christianity, is a “cult” as far as they are concerned.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:29 PM
Rustling the livestock, so to speak?
jaime on December 4, 2007 at 7:30 PM
I’m an evangelical and I’m thinking about voting for Romney (still haven’t made up my mind). I have my own incompletely informed thoughts about his religion but I won’t post them here or elsewhere because they have nothing to do with his qualifications for president and I don’t think that his faithful (no pun intended) practice of his religion would hinder the fulfillment of his presidential oath, should he be chosen to take it.
I can’t say that for all other religions and corresponding adherents.
baldilocks on December 4, 2007 at 7:31 PM
Nope. I said I would vote for Romney. Maybe I am thinking more along the lines of endorsing. This is in line with the article AP posted about the Southern Baptist Church not wanting to endorse Romney because it would look as if they were legitimizing the faith system.
Ultimately, I want a candidate who will uphold conservative values - who will go along with my party’s platform - which rules out Rudy, Huck, and McCain (on immigration), for me. I’m left with Mitt, and Fred. Fred just happens to be my guy - I don’t care if he reads the Bible, book of Mormon, or what. More than anything, I don’t want this to become a referendum on religion.
nailinmyeye on December 4, 2007 at 7:31 PM
I’m Catholic but when I heard Huck answer the bible question he rang true. Especially after Mitt sounded like a typical politician. People tend to vote for people who are like themselves. Unless Huck is proven to be a false profit, I can see him continuing to gain momentum.
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:31 PM
I hope Romney doesn’t bring up the fact that Harry Reid is a Mormon also on Thursday night. His prospects will be over! :)
ctmom on December 4, 2007 at 7:31 PM
Also - my response was to MB4, and the original question had to do with Evangelicals “hating” Mormons. I was trying to offer one potential reason for reluctance.
nailinmyeye on December 4, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Yep
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Mum’s the word. :-)
baldilocks on December 4, 2007 at 7:33 PM
LOL!
You should hear Mormons around here talk about Reid!
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:33 PM
I would like to point out that the article indicates this was an internet survey. There is indication of how the subjects were chosen, vetted and validated and there is no link to the actual questions asked or the raw data.
INC on December 4, 2007 at 7:36 PM
That should read:
There is no indication of how the subjects were chosen, vetted and validated and there is no link to the actual questions asked or the raw data.
INC on December 4, 2007 at 7:37 PM
Yeah, I grew up Catholic and I think Huckster has a certain gift for persuasive speaking, especially about God and religion. But the point of his Bible answer wasn’t that much different than Romney’s. Except Romney had to put a qualifier (”I might interpret it differently than you”) on it because he’s Mormon. Otherwise, same answer, except Huckster was a little more eloquent.
jaime on December 4, 2007 at 7:37 PM
OK, I think that I have got it all figure out.
Evangelicals feel the same way about Mormons as NIKE feels about Reebok.
P.S. I used to work for NIKE.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 7:38 PM
Probability the Boston Globe called Ice: 0.
BKennedy on December 4, 2007 at 7:41 PM
It was obvious Huck knew what he was talking about and had thought about it. With Mitt he was outside his comfort zone. Doesn’t matter really, we aren’t electing a minister, we are electing a president. But it told me that Huck would have more of an appeal to evangelicals than Mitt (if everything else was more or less equal).
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:41 PM
I think it is almost comical but if it is being injecting into politics then it has to be taken seriously. I was born Roman Catholic and find that Evangelicals, a subset of Protestantism, which was an offshoot of Roman Catholicism, feel they have they the right and need to declare Mormonism, a furter offshoot of Protestantism as not being Christian….argument absurd ad infinitum. As a Catholic I might as well just declare all you protestants are not really Christians since the whole argument here is that a religous groups has the power to delcare its own incorrect versions that devlop as false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Resolute on December 4, 2007 at 7:41 PM
Probably be better that way.
Get it over quick.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 7:41 PM
Guiliani had the worst answer. He should have said “Well, I don’t believe in that book. It’s the King James Version. It’s six books too short for my tastes.”
BKennedy on December 4, 2007 at 7:42 PM
Underpants envy.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 7:43 PM
Why do evangelicals hate Mormons so much? It’s pretty simple: One, they are scared of LDS doctrine, and that doctrine being accepted.
Believe it or not (and if you listen to Right2bright, you won’t believe it), the LDS church’s message is quite powerful, and, in fact, it brings people closer to God. I don’t think anyone here disputes the general idea that LDS people are, as a whole, some of the best people around, with strong families and values. That’s traceable directly to the doctrine. There’s a lot of people who are attracted by our basic beliefs; ergo you see professional anti-mormons who are desperate to crush the LDS faith, as it directly threatens their claims to truth (as well as the pastors who are afraid of losing their members to a church with a lay ministry).
That’s why you see stuff like Right2brights comments about what “those dang Mormons believe.” He or she never tells you that that entire list is either wrong or speculation, and that any of that is very, very peripheral to the faith. If you went to a LDS meeting, you’d hear messages about faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the need to repent and keep God’s commandments.
It works, too. People find happiness and a closeness with God in the LDS church that they didn’t have elsewhere–that’s why most don’t go back to being evangelicals or so forth. Calling the LDS church a cult, heretical, etc. doesn’t explain at all why so many people join. (indeed, I believe the LDS church is the 5th largest denomination in the US–hardly a “cult.”)
Yes, we make incredible claims–but we also tell people how they can find out for themselves. The Evangelicals tend to go hysterical at the idea that they don’t have all the truth ( though how can they? They cannot agree on doctrine amongst themselves, why would they think they are right as a whole?)
In other words, it is fear and loathing, mostly. Mormon doctrine, I believe, is a better path to happiness than what many Evangelicals preach. So people take it–and trust me, it’s not just “idiots” and people of low IQ who are LDS. There’s more doctorates per capita in the LDS church than almost any other, I believe. They aren’t stupid.
As for black Mormon women–there’s a lot of them. Especially in Africa, where the church is growing quite fast.
Vanceone on December 4, 2007 at 7:43 PM
Resolute on December 4, 2007 at 7:41 PM
I should point out that Catholics don’t consider Mormons Christian either. See:
http://www.catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:43 PM
Wikipedia is a very poor source for doctrinal dissertations. They tend to yield to people who complain and the LDS consider themselves Christian (although I don’t think any other church does).
bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 7:45 PM
Every religion ridicules other religions, and all are right.
- Schopenhauer
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 7:46 PM
Freud’s “Narcissism of small differences”.
The Sunnis and Shiites have it too.
MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 7:48 PM
I agree with everything in your comment. But the part I copied above, I have to wonder why. Romney answered the question first. Huckabee didn’t add anything new or different, he just said it better. I suppose it goes back to the aforementioned biases. Sort of “string up the rustlers”.
jaime on December 4, 2007 at 7:49 PM
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