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McCain on immigration: I got the message

posted at 9:30 am on December 4, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Is it time to take a second look? If trends continue, we’re looking at a soft-border tax-and-spend nominee in Huck. Why not a soft-border nominee who’s good on the war and somewhat better than Huckabee on spending? If you’re worried that he’s not sincere about having gotten “the message,” cheer up: There’s no reason to believe Mitt and Rudy have repented of their formerly liberal ways either.

Listen closely. He’s open to negotiation, he wants some illegals who’ve been here for years to take the naturalization test straightaway, and he’s taking a “Judeo-Christian” approach to many of the rest — Hucka-speak for “what my soul tells me is right.” I think that message he thinks he got might have been a wrong number.


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I love McCain on defense, but he’s too emotionally unstable. Combine that with his super soft stance against illegal immigration (the Republican candidate if strong on this will have a much easier time winning in the general) and I just don’t consider him a viable alternatative.

davenp35 on December 4, 2007 at 9:36 AM

I think Tancredo and Hunter are the only ones who get it. Sadly, they don’t stand a chance.

I sincerely doubt McCain gets it. I think he really just understands that he needs to be stealthy in how he tries to help sell our sovereignty in the future.

PBoilermaker on December 4, 2007 at 9:36 AM

Not that this has anything to do with this article, but i found it hilarious.

http://images.salon.com/comics/tomo/2007/12/03/tomo/story.jpg

muyoso on December 4, 2007 at 9:37 AM

Is it time to take a second look?

yea

bnelson44 on December 4, 2007 at 9:37 AM

Is it time to take a second look?

Is this the same McCain who just the other night said what he tried to pass wasn’t amnesty?

amerpundit on December 4, 2007 at 9:38 AM

I still think Bill Bennett nailed it with WIT: this election is about the War, Immigration, and Taxes.

To clarify for the GOP candidates, that would be winning the war, controlling immigration and lowering taxes.

saint kansas on December 4, 2007 at 9:38 AM

How many immigrants does he want per year? What criteria? How many “guest’ workers per year in what fields? Do they affect wages? Are they a net tax burden or net tax boon? Etc. He’d fail these questions if anyone in the media gave a damn enough about this country to think for more than thirty seconds about this issue and ask them.

Alex K on December 4, 2007 at 9:39 AM

Taking Senator McCain at his word that he now understands that the public will not abide with his pro-illegals open-border ideas:

He still needs to explain why he was willing to trade away the public’s freedom of speech in the name of campaign finance reform.

His “support” of the war needs to be tempered with the way he and his mini-me (Lindsay Graham) have attempted to circumvent some seriously national security procedures and public policies vis-a-vis Gitmo.

He needs to explain why we should elect somebody who is part of that group of RINOs that thwarted administration nominations for so long.

John McCain: He’s still a weasel.

highhopes on December 4, 2007 at 9:45 AM

We already have a temporary worker program. It’s called a work Visa. Just like what the NRA says about gun control, we have enough laws and such, enforce those.

He looks like a kid telling his mommy he’s sorry after he got caught with the cookie.

- The Cat

P.S. If you’ve been here for 60 years, you’ve already been amnestized in the 80s.

MirCat on December 4, 2007 at 9:46 AM

Don’t pay the ferryman!
Don’t even fix a price!
Don’t pay the ferryman
Until he gets you to the other side.

Weight of Glory on December 4, 2007 at 9:47 AM

I think he really just understands that he needs to be stealthy in how he tries to help sell our sovereignty in the future.
PBoilermaker on December 4, 2007 at 9:36 AM

I really don’t want to talk about the immigration issue or the pros and cons of a McCain nomination/presidency now, but dude think about what you are casually saying here. The guy is a senior US senator, he has fought for this country honorably, spent 6 years in enemy captivity, endured torture and behaved honorably. So when he disagrees with you on handling illegal immigration, whether he is right or wrong, is it too much to ask that you don’t assume that his stealth agenda is to sell our sovereignty? Is it too much to ask that you don’t imply, even in hyperbole, that the man, having sacrificed so much for the country, is a traitor?

factoid on December 4, 2007 at 9:51 AM

By the time Fred clears his throat, McCain will have pressed his amnesty bill under the radar.

Griz on December 4, 2007 at 9:58 AM

factoid on December 4, 2007 at 9:51 AM

Absolutely right.

Big S on December 4, 2007 at 9:58 AM

Too late, Senator, TOO LATE.

We as a nation were thisclose to a disaster of monumental proportions, and YOU were right at the heart of it, trying to railroad this disaster down our throats.

A pox on you and your immigration reform.

Always Right on December 4, 2007 at 10:01 AM

Remember the gang of 14?

Weight of Glory on December 4, 2007 at 10:02 AM

We want candidates with core beliefs not ones with new convictions based on polls.

Go Fred!

TheSitRep on December 4, 2007 at 10:02 AM

I really don’t want to talk about the immigration issue or the pros and cons of a McCain nomination/presidency now, but dude think about what you are casually saying here. The guy is a senior US senator, he has fought for this country honorably, spent 6 years in enemy captivity, endured torture and behaved honorably. So when he disagrees with you on handling illegal immigration, whether he is right or wrong, is it too much to ask that you don’t assume that his stealth agenda is to sell our sovereignty? Is it too much to ask that you don’t imply, even in hyperbole, that the man, having sacrificed so much for the country, is a traitor?

factoid on December 4, 2007 at 9:51 AM

At ease, factoid. I will always respect his military service to this country and what he went through, but that does not grant him license to betray his oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States for any reason while serving in public office. Cunningham was also someone whose military service to this country I will always respect, but I am able to separate his later misdeeds in public office from the aforementioned honorable military service just like I do with McCain.

PBoilermaker on December 4, 2007 at 10:03 AM

No absolutely not. The stand we need to take for McCain wrapping his arms around Teddy Kennedy in a conjoined attempt to rip our sovereinty out of our grasp in the name of big business slave labor/votes is permanent. The stand we take against him for such a determined betrayal of what it is to be American is to last until the day he departs public life. When that day comes we can then treat him like the war hero he is. It must be made very clear to our elected officials, if you ever try this again you days in public office are over. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. There is nothing more important then what John McCain and Teddy Kennedy attempted to steal from us.

Zetterson on December 4, 2007 at 10:04 AM

Unless the GOP candidate takes a stance on illegal immigration as strong as the Dems are against the war I do not buy their sincerity. And when is a GOP candidate going to blast Mexico’s government for its failures?

GogglesPisano on December 4, 2007 at 10:06 AM

stick a fork in old turkey neck he is finished and he knows it .

Mojack420 on December 4, 2007 at 10:08 AM

McCain is a national hero but unfortunately people are judged by the company they keep. Hobnobbing with the likes of Kennedy, Feingold, little Chrissie Matthews and the gang of 14 sends bad vibes to conservative voters. His apparent change of heart and mind has probably arrived too late.

rplat on December 4, 2007 at 10:09 AM

McCain is way to flaky for me … McCain-Fiengold, how cool was that?

No thanks …

tarpon on December 4, 2007 at 10:09 AM

McCain’s ‘Hanoi Hilton’ credentials are as tired as Rudy’s ‘9/11′ credentials…not that I thought they held much stock to begin with.

I wish he’d get _that_ message.

And retire.

Ochlan on December 4, 2007 at 10:10 AM

I have a lot of respect for McCain in some ways. But, I hate to say it, I don’t trust the man.

KMC1 on December 4, 2007 at 10:10 AM

factoid on December 4, 2007 at 9:51 AM

Factoid, if you remember, the fact is that he did attempt to be stealthy in order to jam this down are throats. To this day he still refuses to call Amnesty, Amnesty. They attempted to get the vote done before anybody even had a chance to read what was being proposed. He may be a war hero but that does not mitigate the FACT that what he and Teddy Kopechney attempted to foist upon us against our will was a complete betrayal to our national soverienty and a complete betrayal of their duties to the Constitution and the American citizens.

Zetterson on December 4, 2007 at 10:11 AM

Is it time to take a second look?

NO. McCain’s betrayal of conservative principles on amnesty permanently disqualifies him. The man is not trustworthy enough to lead this nation. And that is not counteracted by his honorable military service and sacrifice.

infidel4life on December 4, 2007 at 10:18 AM

A deaf man, fresh from the tub wearing only a waist towel, is tazed by police. Obviously, the deaf man was NOT ARMED. Tazing instead of tackling a naked & deaf man who is already shocked by police intruders aiming guns at the defenseless homeowner is the current legal police tactic.

On Drudge from Kansas’ KWCH.com:
“Once the facts were all sorted out, officers repeatedly apologized to Williams. Police wish it never happened, but with the information they had at the time, their choices were limited.”

At least McCain would take consideration of what torture during home invasion consists.

maverick muse on December 4, 2007 at 10:18 AM

He says that now but if elected and maybe with Dem control, both houses… yah, right.

stenwin77 on December 4, 2007 at 10:21 AM

rplat on December 4, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Too late for me too.

JiangxiDad on December 4, 2007 at 10:23 AM

McCain betrayed conservative principles? Well, did Romney betray them with his liberals stances through out the years on abortion, health care, and gay marriage? Or how about Rudy? Pro-gay rights, pro-choice (even PBA), pro-gun control, agreed on McCain/Feingold, sanctuary city? Huckabee with high taxes and pro-illegal immigrants?

Who do we have left? Let me think..oh, yeah FRED. Only problem he is about as exciting as day old bread. No heat there. I wish there were, but there isn’t.

So you guys have got to forgive SOMEONE. It might as well be the man who can beat Hillary.

Just think about it.

Rightwingsparkle on December 4, 2007 at 10:33 AM

Is it time to take a second look?

Absolutely not- he was on Ingraham’s show a couple of weeks ago and was sorry for his political career that he pushed amnesty. He had zero personal repentance and has no plan to deal with it unlike Fred.

I am not pushing Fred, but other candidates must show this before I would even consider voting for them.

Valiant on December 4, 2007 at 10:36 AM

McCains wishy washy demeanor in this video shouts his insincerity and lack of commitment on this issue.

leanright on December 4, 2007 at 10:36 AM

Is it time to take a second look?

Absolutely. Gotta be Mitt or McCain in my opinion. Rudy is too sleazy. McCain is a true hawk; I trust him in the WOT, and trust him to deal with emerging threats. While his overall record on taxes and spending may show him to be a moderate, he is strongly for a balanced budget and against pork-barrell spending. I would actually much rather have that combination, even if it includes funding some “programs” than the current Bush economic plan/policies. I think a balanced budget with reasonable national priorities is something we can live with. Not preferable by any means, but perhaps better than any of the likely alternatives. Mitt or McCain

RW Wacko on December 4, 2007 at 10:36 AM

McCains wishy washy demeanor in this video speaks volumes about his insincerity and lack of commitment on this issue.

leanright on December 4, 2007 at 10:38 AM

Rudy, Romney, McCain and Huckabee ALL have squishy immigration credentials. I don’t trust any of them. Duncan and Tancredo are the best on this issue but I think most agree we aren’t going to push them to the head of the pack now. That leaves us with Fred. I have not been a Fred supporter but I don’t know who else can do what we need done. I just simply don’t trust the others to do what is right on the border and with illegal immigration. I have to attend my caucus in a month. I need to make a decision. Immigration and the border are growing to be huge issues.

Terri on December 4, 2007 at 10:39 AM

Why not a soft-border nominee who’s good on the war

He still won’t let us waterboard those who we need to.

Sorry, no thanks

conservnut on December 4, 2007 at 10:39 AM

McCain was correct when he said border security would not be addressed in a serious way until at least 2009. The current administration has an interest in keeping the borders open. I wish I knew what that interest is. Probably pandering to big-money Republican donors, but Bush has never had the decency to explain to the American people why he refuses to secure the borders.

I don’t mind letting otherwise law-abiding foreign nationals stay even if they entered the country illegally, but only after the borders are secure and the immigration system is fixed. The argument seems to be that they are law abiding in every way except for the fact that they entered the U.S. illegally, and that they are a net positive to the economy. I can get behind that. BUT they can’t have ever used someone else’s identity, or registered to vote, or taken public assistance. A thorough investigation should be performed, in the manner of a tax audit, for each illegal applying for permanent residency.

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 10:42 AM

He gets it to get re-elected, but does he really get it? And will we get it in the end…so to speak.

right2bright on December 4, 2007 at 10:47 AM

So you guys have got to forgive SOMEONE. It might as well be the man who can beat Hillary.

Just think about it.

Rightwingsparkle on December 4, 2007 at 10:33 AM

Quite right. But still wondering which one would be so grateful for the nod, that he’d do what he promised, even if he hadn’t in the past. To me, McCain seems the LEAST likely to comply to the wishes of his constituents.

JiangxiDad on December 4, 2007 at 10:49 AM

Gotta be Mitt or McCain in my opinion. Rudy is too sleazy.

Too sleazy by our standards, but…

Too sleazy to hold the job formerly held by Billy Jeff Clinton?

saint kansas on December 4, 2007 at 10:59 AM

The fire in McCain’s belly is naught but a cinder.

Sad but true.

rockbend on December 4, 2007 at 11:03 AM

He would have to forcefully renounce all the crappy liberal legislation with his name on it (McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, etc.) to even have a shot at the GOP nomination. The fact that he doesn’t realize it is enough deficit in judgement to nullify his chances for ANY elective Republican office.

Valiant on December 4, 2007 at 11:09 AM

So you guys have got to forgive SOMEONE. It might as well be the man who can beat Hillary.

Just think about it.

Yeah. Giuliani. I know he’s probably just as liberal on this as McCain, but he hasn’t lied to my face about it (that i know of.)

whereas mccain got up in front of the country and crowed about (for example) the “stringent” [24 hour] background checks that the comprehensive amnesty would have required.

and by the way:

I really don’t want to talk about the immigration issue or the pros and cons of a McCain nomination/presidency now, but dude think about what you are casually saying here. The guy is a senior US senator, he has fought for this country honorably, spent 6 years in enemy captivity, endured torture and behaved honorably. So when he disagrees with you on handling illegal immigration, whether he is right or wrong, is it too much to ask that you don’t assume that his stealth agenda is to sell our sovereignty? Is it too much to ask that you don’t imply, even in hyperbole, that the man, having sacrificed so much for the country, is a traitor?

Yes. Yes it is. I appreciate the senator’s heroic sacrifice in vietnam. he is a credit to his country because of it. however, his behaviour during the amnesty debate was shameful. he dissembled over and over and over, knowingly misrepresenting the consequences of the course of action he was recommending, knowing that the majority of americans were dead set against what he was trying to do.

he tried to pull one over on us. plain and simple. and his military record doesn’t change that.

if we’re willing to say that about John “Abscam” Murtha, we should be willing to say it about John “Keating 5″ McCain. They both ran on their military records, and both are using them to justify courses of action they know are contrary to the wishes of the american people and contrary to american interests.

so get off the high horse, please. i’m not saying the man’s a traitor, but neither does his military record immunize him from the shame and scorn accruing from his political actions.

jdub on December 4, 2007 at 11:11 AM

geewiz cut the guy some slack. the war is more important than this immigration sideshow cooked up by john birchers.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:15 AM

can we do a poll? i’d like to know which candidate the user base of hotair does support. my fear is that it’s going to split four ways even.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:26 AM

Who do we have left? Let me think..oh, yeah FRED. Only problem he is about as exciting as day old bread. No heat there. I wish there were, but there isn’t.

I don’t care if Fred isn’t “exciting.” I’m voting for a president, not a Dancing With The Stars finalist, and I’ve been liking what Fred has to say all along.

Kensington on December 4, 2007 at 11:27 AM

geewiz cut the guy some slack. the war is more important than this immigration sideshow cooked up by john birchers.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:15 AM

Agree the WOT is more important, economy #2, but would put immigration #3, and it is tied pretty heavily into #2 at this point in the game. Doing anything substantive on immigration (pro or con) will affect the economy quite significantly IMO. I think if Mitt could be trusted, he would be the best choice by far. I like McCain, and don’t give a rat’s ass about McCain-Feingold. That is an issue for only the very most active part of the base, a tiny % of the electorate. Immigration is the killer for him. He was the front-runner by a good margin before the immigration mess bit him in the butt.

RW Wacko on December 4, 2007 at 11:31 AM

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:15 AM

Well, I suppose everyone has an opinion about what’s most important. I’ve even heard that the current U.S. involvement in the Middle East is supported by war-mongering, imperialist bigots.

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 11:35 AM

Its starting to look like Tancredo MUST be VP no matter who is president.

shooter on December 4, 2007 at 11:44 AM

I don’t care if Fred isn’t “exciting.”

Since Fred’s an actor, I’d like to reshoot the old 1931 Frankenstein except with Fred on the slab. To our shouts of “It’s alive! Alive!” the newly animated Fred would rise up, go on a conservative rampage and chuck Hillary into a lake.

The end.

saint kansas on December 4, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Since Fred’s an actor, I’d like to reshoot the old 1931 Frankenstein except with Fred on the slab. To our shouts of “It’s alive! Alive!” the newly animated Fred would rise up, go on a conservative rampage and chuck Hillary into a lake.

The end.

I’ll bet it does better than Redacted.

Kensington on December 4, 2007 at 11:48 AM

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 11:35 AM

i’ve heard that too. it seems to be the opinion of crypto-nazis and people who believe in “zog” conspirisism.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Bravo factoid and RightWingSparkle.

John McCain was and is right about Iraq and has stood steadfast behind the troops that he reveres. I care deeply about that because my older son, a U.S. Army First Lieutenant (with Ranger tab), finished in October his first extended tour of duty in Iraq as an infantry platoon leader, and I have greatly appreciated John McCain’s stand. To the poster who compared John McCain to John Murtha, please check in with reality. John McCain was lonely through the earlier part of this year in his support of General Petraeus and the troops, while Murtha has been crying defeat all along.

John McCain is the most knowledgeable of any candidate about the military and national security matters. With my older son in the U.S. Army and my younger son to be commissioned a U.S. Marines Second Lieutenant upon graduation this year (having already passed officer training at Quantico), I care deeply who our Commander in Chief will be; and with flesh and blood literally on the front line, I want that Commander in Chief to be the one who knows what he is doing about military matters. We have more battles ahead with Islamo-fascism.

John McCain is pro-life.

John McCain is a staunch fiscal conservative who has been for years attacking prolifigate federal spending.

John McCain promised to the Federalist Society and has repeated since the pledge to nominate judicial conservatives to the federal bench — a matter of huge importance to the future of the country.

John McCain’s books on character and courage are terrific.

John McCain, the son and grandson of U.S. Navy Admirals and a naval aviator, is a real war hero. His account of his war years is inspiring. That took real character. Calling John McCain “wishy-washy” is stupid.

John McCain can beat Hillary, an anti-military socialist who will nominate left wing judges. All of you who are attacking John McCin so venomously are being foolish. What you throw at John McCain does not justify the venom.

Immigration: John McCain has been saying he gets it for months, that law enforcement must come first. I saw him say this point in New York City during an interview by the Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan. The immigration bill signed by then President Ronald Reagan in 1986 had law enforcement provisions that were not enforced, and that led to the current problems.

Keating: John McCain was not found to have done anything criminal — far from it. The poster who brought up Cunningham seems not to know the difference between a criminal conviction and an accusation that upon investigation does not warrant action.

Gang of 14: the compromise enabled John Roberts and Sam Alito to be confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court and a number of conservatives to be confirmed to the U.S. Courts of Appeal. We don’t know that the alternative would have worked with the likes of Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee voting. Instead, the filibuster was preserved for the time of a Democrat controlled Congress, like now. It is Chuckie Schumer who is complaining, saying that the Democrats got snookered.

McCain-Feingold: John McCain supported campaign finance reform in order to cut the influence of money on politics. The problem is that the distinctions in the law have not worked to achieve the honest end John McCain intended. The matter is now in the hands of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Bipartisanship: John McCain grew up in era when Democrats and Republicans could work together to come up with solutions, and the American people in general are not going to fault him for that. They expect such issues as health care and environmental protection to be addressed, and we need to have them addressed in sensible ways other than by Democrat socialism and Democrat insanity.

Given John McCain’s strengths and a perspective about what he is criticized for, I do urge those of you who had dismissed John McCain, to think again.

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Not that this has anything to do with this article, but i found it hilarious.

muyoso on December 4, 2007 at 9:37 AM

go back to trolling digg.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:59 AM

Look up the definition of naive…There’ll be a picture of McCain.

franksalterego on December 4, 2007 at 12:05 PM

i’ve heard that too. it seems to be the opinion of crypto-nazis and people who believe in “zog” conspirisism.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Quite possibly. Every crackpot has an opinion.

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 12:09 PM

highhopes on December 4, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Highhopes – The reason that many people discuss Mike Huckabee’s faith is because he has made it a focal point of his campaign and his qualifications for the Presidency. Similar to the way that John F. Kerry made his time in Vietnam the focal point of his campaign and his qualifications for the Presidency (and was rightly criticized for his record in Vietnam and what he did upon returning). If Mike Huckabee wants to make his faith the issue, then he and his supporters should expect his detractors to show how his faith may be a detriment to his judgement as President.

Michael in MI on December 4, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 11:58 AM

So I take it you like McCain.
He did no wrong in your eyes. McCain/Feingold was a fiasco, even after showing it to him, he still won’t back away from it. He is too arrogant to see his faults. A maverick, when he doesn’t need to be, a maverick to pick up a few left votes, but leaves the right hanging.
Immigration, he says he gets it (to get votes), but come on, wasn’t it just a little obvious the conservatives were against him? He wasn’t smart or astute enough to see the polls, read his mail, just open his eyes. His arrogance wouldn’t let anyone tell him what to do. And I doubt he learned his lesson. War hero, no doubt, so was John Wilkes Booth. The fact is, a war hero does not necessarily make a good leader. Was Churchill a “war hero”?
And apparently you don’t know the definition of “bi-partisan”, it is what the left wants, they don’t negotiate (like McCain/Feingold, Johnny got taken”. Do what Reagan did, win the hearts of the people, then kick the liberals ass. McCain doesn’t have the charisma to win over the public…he is just to arrogant.

right2bright on December 4, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Sorry, I posted my last in the wrong thread.

Michael in MI on December 4, 2007 at 12:11 PM

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 12:09 PM

quite. i often think these crackpots should stay at huffpo or salon where they’re welcome and can be open with their embarrassing delusions, without fear of being banned for trolling with their wasteful bs.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Is it time to take a second look?

Yeah. At Fred.

Ex-tex on December 4, 2007 at 12:20 PM

i often think these crackpots should stay at huffpo or salon where they’re welcome and can be open with their embarrassing delusions, without fear of being banned for trolling with their wasteful bs.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Exactly!

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 12:23 PM

We as a nation were thisclose to a disaster of monumental proportions, and YOU were right at the heart of it, trying to railroad this disaster down our throats….
Always Right on December 4, 2007 at 10:01 AM

Government against the will of the people. They tried multiple times to ram it through. First during a holiday weekend. It took a major muster to stop it. Then they tried again and again. And it ain’t over yet

Mccain made his famous comtemptuous remark that Americans wouldn’t pick lettuce not even for $50 an hour.

That is a big problem. Contempt for the electorate to the point he has to import persons for whom he feels no contempt. And give them the vote so he has an electorate he can proudly represent.

A friend uses a quote from a Russian Tsar who was asked if he would ever free the serfs. The Tsar replied he would free the serfs if they could handle freedom but they cannot

We do not need a Tsar, even one who has learned to fear the serfs

That said, I wish him well. I believe he loves his country, but does not like his people

entagor on December 4, 2007 at 12:23 PM

A great American you are John.
A bad policy you have put forth once too many.
Thanks for your service.
Go rest now John, rest.

Kini on December 4, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Phil Byler, well written post and please allow me to say thanks to you and your two sons for the sacrafices you and they make for all of us. After reading your post though, I have to very respectfully disagree. There have been many many ways, sinch McCain’s first days in public office, that he has butted heads with the Republican base. Immigration is the most blatant and will be the steak through the heart of his campaign. It is one thing to be wrong but it is another thing entirely to attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people the way he and many others did. The tactics they used in their attempt to force that on the American people were downright frightning and should not ever be forgiven. The United States has laws. The particular laws we now have exist because the American people have decided that they want those particular laws. John McCain and others attempted to and continue to attempt to ignore those laws and enforce only what they believe should be enforced as if they were Kings ruling in a monarchy. They are attempting to say, “I’m going to ignore your stated desires because I know what is best for you.” The American people’s harsh rejection of McCain/Kennedy was more then just saying no to Amnesty. It was also the voters saying no to John McCain and others telling us what laws we are allowed to have and what laws we are not allowed to have. The American people told John McCain that if our laws are inconvenient for your political agenda that’s just too bad. You work for us. We are not pawns in your Amnesty game. We tell you what to do.

John McCain shot himself in the foot not for being wrong. He shot himself in the foot for being deceiptful. He shot himself in the foot for trying to sneek something through that he knew damn well was against the will of the American people. His political career is rightfully finished because of it.

Zetterson on December 4, 2007 at 12:25 PM

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 11:58 AM

John McCain did one more thing…he lost the last Republican primary. We’ve already decided he wasn’t right for the Presidency.

James on December 4, 2007 at 12:28 PM

jaime on December 4, 2007 at 12:23 PM

glad you agree.

jummy on December 4, 2007 at 12:29 PM

Is it time to take a second look?

Not just no, hell no!
I don’t think the arrogance has left McCain by any means and even if it did how long after the election before it comes raging back?

We can do better, a lot better!

If we’re willing to settle, guess what we’ll get out of it?
More Bush, anybody want that?
Either we demand better or a New York Republican (former Democrat) is what we’ll get.

Speakup on December 4, 2007 at 12:39 PM

I have no idea why a seasoned politician even wants to keep talking about the 12 million illegals that are here. Don’t even mention them. Just say you are going to secure the border so that over the next 20 years we don’t get another 12 million overrunning local government municipalities.

NO ILLEGAL ALIEN IN THE USA HAS BEEN HERE FOR MORE THAN 20 years. 20 years ago, they all became US citizens.

Now, SS and medicare are going broke without adding anyone new. Now add new people to the government hand-out programs and it will likely go broke faster.

Amnesty is why nobody wants McCain now. Why is McCain ‘getting the message’ and still talking about the 12 million here illegally? If you want to get elected, don’t talk about ‘judeo-christian’ or anything but securing the border. What good is bailing water out of a leaky boat if you don’t fix the leak first? Talk about bailing water out all you want to while you sink to the bottom.

Again, I repeat. . . there is NO illegal alien here for more than 20 years. You want to put a ‘date certain’ on these people being in the USA? HOW?! THEY ARE UNDOCUMENTED!

If you want the nomination. Tell America you were wrong on immigration (just like Phoenix) and the most important thing that the federal government could do is secure the border.

THEN STOP TALKING! Don’t even mention the 12 million here. If they ask about them, just say – ‘we don’t know how many are here and we want that number to stop growing for the sake of SS and medicare.’

Secure the border – THEN STOP TALKING if you want to get elected. Under normal circumstances I wouldn’t consider voting for McCain. But under these circumstances, nobody is good so he’s at least the best on spending and the war.

ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 12:46 PM

Also, the guest worker program is a fantastic idea. I support this idea completely. Why then are the illegals that are already here exempt from participating in the guest worker program? If we can make them all legal citizens, we can make them all temporary workers.

All they want is work, right? They are not interested in American citizenship, they only want work. Let them work, but not tax our social structure any more than they already do.

Guest worker program is an awesome way to allow people to come here to work without destroying what is left of the government’s entitlement program that I pay into every week.

ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 12:50 PM

He’s too old. How old is he going to be 9 years from now?

krabbas on December 4, 2007 at 12:53 PM

We do not need a Tsar, even one who has learned to fear the serfs

That said, I wish him well. I believe he loves his country, but does not like his people

entagor on December 4, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Exactly. McCain has contempt for the electorate and an underlying, seething anger. It was apparent as he attacked Romney on waterboarding, I think irrationally. I can’t trust him.

NTWR on December 4, 2007 at 1:06 PM

Michael in MI on December 4, 2007 at 12:11 PM

I thought I had clicked on the wrong thread when I saw your post (again). Talk about mind games!

Seriously, and this makes for a nice tie-in…..

Huckabee has not made his faith the cornerstone of his campaign the way Kerry (and McCain) made Vietnam one of their key qualifications for the presidency. He states in his ad that he is a “Christian leader” which doesn’t seem too much of a revelation considering the man is an ordained minister. Huckabee hasn’t been out there saying “vote for me because I’m a Christian.” This situation is, actually, more akin to the way JFK had to convince voters how faith fits into who a President Huckabee will be. Romney has much of the same problem which begs the question if it possible for candidates in 2007 can openly express their faith and still be elected. Do candidates have to toe the atheist line that faith has no place where the public might be offended by its very existence?

And this brings us back on topic. I want to support a candidate who clearly believes in a higher power and a strong moral compass. Huckabee seems to fall short when it comes to acting according to one’s convictions as does John McCain. Perhaps it is the problem of being in the Senate for far too long but McCain is one of those career politicians that seem far more interested in getting along with the other 99 elites than doing what is right by the ordinary citizenry. He cuts deals with Russ Feingold and Teddy Kennedy, joins the gang of 14, gets nasty when his amnesty plan gets shot down…. etc. All things being equal, I’d rather have a President who declares himself a “Christian leader” than I would a flip-flopping RINO willing to cut deals with the devil in the name of bipartisanship.

highhopes on December 4, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Also, the guest worker program is a fantastic idea

No guest worker program can ever work until there’s a guarantee that its temporary and children born to guest workers can not be citizens, any other program is another stealth amnesty.

Speakup on December 4, 2007 at 1:10 PM

McCain just hit number 2.

Rightwingsparkle on December 4, 2007 at 1:28 PM

No guest worker program can ever work until there’s a guarantee that its temporary and children born to guest workers can not be citizens, any other program is another stealth amnesty.

Speakup on December 4, 2007 at 1:10 PM

I agree with that, but the 14th amendment didn’t mean that children of non-Americans born in the USA would automatically be US citizens. As soon as we get an understanding of that, we can realize that the laws are on the books to prevent temporary workers (or their children) from being citizens.

But a temporary worker program is appropriate and necessary. Canada has a great program we can use as a model. But for it to mean anything, we have to stop the flow of illegals. Until that happens, we will just keep getting people flouting the law who won’t have to be a ‘temporary worker’ or illegal alien because the government will just make them legal.

We are in agreement speakup.

ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Is it time to take a second look?

I dunno, has he recanted his statement that he thinks McCain-Feingold is more important than the First Amendment, and that he personally would give up free speech to detach the Money/Politics link?

No?

Then can we have a candidate who doesn’t think their personal whim trumps the Constitution please? Or at a minimum one who isn’t on the record with that belief?

Honestly, his comments about McCain_Feingold offend me more than the legislation. A self-absorbed Politician who believes that his opinion trumps the Constitution as justification for bad law?

Heck, if that’s my choice I might as well vote Democrat.

gekkobear on December 4, 2007 at 2:22 PM

I agree with that, but the 14th amendment didn’t mean that children of non-Americans born in the USA would automatically be US citizens. As soon as we get an understanding of that, we can realize that the laws are on the books to prevent temporary workers (or their children) from being citizens.

ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Thats right. I don’t have a problem with an honestly run guest worker program (which is far from what we have now)that doesn’t hurt American workers, including high tech. workers.

Clarify the Constitution, enforce the law and we’ll be right as rain.

Speakup on December 4, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Keating: John McCain was not found to have done anything criminal — far from it. The poster who brought up Cunningham seems not to know the difference between a criminal conviction and an accusation that upon investigation does not warrant action.
Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Way to misrepresent, Phil, but I didn’t bring up Cunningham as someone who behaves as McCain does. How about you try reading my post this time. I brought up Cunningham to show that his honorable military past did not excuse his future bad behavior while holding political office just as McCain’s honorable military past does not excuse his current behavior in public office. You could say the same for any politician who has a military background yet behaves poorly while holding public office (Murtha, for example).

I am sick of people like you and factoid telling me how I need to gloss over McCain’s transgressions simply because he “was a war hero”. As stated before, I will -always- respect McCain’s military service and the hell he went through, but that honorable service does not represent a perpetual license to behave in a manner which harms our nation while holding public office.

LEARN TO SEPARATE McCAIN’S MILITARY PAST FROM HIS CURRENT BEHAVIOR AND JUDGE HIS ACTIONS ACCORDINGLY.

PBoilermaker on December 4, 2007 at 2:45 PM

McCain on immigration: I got the message

And it’s too late McCainy, now it’s too late
Though you really are trying to fake it
Something inside you has died and you can’t hide
And you just can’t fake it

It used to be so easy believing you
You were light and breezy
And I knew just what you meant to do
Now you sound so unhappy
And you just look like an old fool
- Carole McKing

MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 2:57 PM

Also, the guest worker program is a fantastic idea

It is a shameful idea.

The founding fathers generation fought, suffered and died to make us independent from England and we are going to disgrace their sacrifices by in effect declaring dependence on Mexico?

MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 3:15 PM

Also, the guest worker program is a fantastic idea

It is a shameful idea.

The Abraham Lincoln generation fought, suffered and died to end slavery and we are going to disgrace their sacrifices by in effect declaring a serf worker (aka, slavery light) program?

MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 3:17 PM

Body language says it all: He’s not sincere.

McCain
Huckabee
Rudy
Paul

The GOP list is getting shorter.

madmonkphotog on December 4, 2007 at 3:53 PM

To PBoilermaker:

The trouble with claiming that I am not distinguishing between John McCain’s military service and his record in office and as a candidate is that my 11:58 AM post goes through a whole litany of positions taken in office and a candidate and virtues as a candidate, and you don’t deal with any of them.

The trouble with claiming misrepresentation by me as your reference to Cunningham is that what you wrote sure sounded like you were accusing of McCain of “transgressions” like Cunningham. FYI, McCain refers to Cunningham as an example of how Washington D.C. corrupts.

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 4:12 PM

To Zetterson:

Thanks for saying that my 11:58 AM post is well written. The trouble with your response is that your 12:25 PM post stating your continued objection to McCain all comes down to one issue — immigration. I go through the substantive issues of Iraq, the military, national security, abortion, federal spending, judicial nominations as well as the matter of electability against Hillary, and you apparently have nothing to say. One of my points is that everyone needs to look at the larger picture and realize that on some of the most important matters, McCain is the best.

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 4:17 PM

It is a shameful idea.

The Abraham Lincoln generation fought, suffered and died to end slavery and we are going to disgrace their sacrifices by in effect declaring a serf worker (aka, slavery light) program?

MB4 on December 4, 2007 at 3:17 PM

Understand that slavery was about lack of choice of movement. The problem with slavery is not that they worked. The problem with slavery is that humans can not own other humans, and people should have the right to determine their own fate.

We have a need for workers in agriculture, and we have workers who CHOOSE to come here to work and earn a living. As long as they don’t clog up schools, jails, and take money from our social programs, they are free to work.

Citizenship would be fine if our government didn’t guarantee so many entitlement programs for every citizen. If all they could do as a citizen is vote, that’d be fine. If they take tax dollars, that is not fine. A guest worker program would bridge the gap between needed workers, and workers who need jobs without further stressing our country’s entitlement programs.

ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 4:18 PM

To James:

Sorry, but your 12:28 PM post is a non sequitur. That John McCain lost the Republican primary fight to George W. Bush in 2000 does not mean that it has been decided in 2008 that John McCain is not right for the Republicans in 2008. That is what is being contested now.

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 4:20 PM

To right2bright:

I don’t find your 12:10 PM post be persusive. You don’t deal at all with the critically important virtues that I point out for McCain — his clear voice on Iraq and in support of the troops, his superior knowledge about military and national security matters (which matters in terms of the Commander in Chief role of the Presidency), his pro-life position, his staunch opposition to prolifigate federal spending, his war record that showed character, his commitment to nominating judicial conservatives to the federal bench and his ability to beat Hillary. You simply sneer “so you like McCain.” Well, what I reviewed should give anyone a lot to like about McCain. All you do is to continue to spit some more venom about McCain, citing McCain-Fenigold, immigration and bipartisanship, basically saying I must not understand about them. But I do; and what I wrote about them in my 11:58 AM post reflects my judgment that taken in context, they don’t outweigh McCain’s virtues referenced above.

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 4:35 PM

McCain just hit number 2.

Rightwingsparkle on December 4, 2007 at 1:28 PM

Sparkle I know you like McCain and so do I (just not for president). He has come down on the wrong side of way too many issues and time in a prison cell may make you a hero but it doesn’t make you a military expert. The only choice we have that has been consistently reasonable is Fred Thompson.

duff65 on December 4, 2007 at 6:04 PM

…we’re looking at a soft-border tax-and-spend nominee

What? I thought the President could only serve two terms.

BacaDog on December 4, 2007 at 6:20 PM

The more I hear the only good canidate is Fred. Too bad the media slandered him. Hmm the media slanders the only good Rep canidate. Is there a connection there?

unseen on December 4, 2007 at 6:43 PM

I’ll vote for him if he’s the nominee…with my fingers on the speed dial to my seantors’ and congressman’s offices just in case.

SouthernGent on December 4, 2007 at 6:46 PM

We have a need for workers in agriculture, and we have workers who CHOOSE to come here to work and earn a living.

ThackerAgency on December 4, 2007 at 4:18 PM

We have plenty of Americans who can do those jobs if the “employers” pay a competitive free market wage to people who are Americans, rather than pay serf wages and dump all the associated costs, such as for schools, hospitals and jails on the tax payers.

F#ck those anti-American plantation owner serf master Bastardos.

MB4 on December 5, 2007 at 2:08 AM

Better a McCain who’s gotten the message (however obviously reluctantly) than a Huckabee who rejects it.

Tzetzes on December 5, 2007 at 2:56 AM

Phil Byler on December 4, 2007 at 4:20 PM

If you think that someone who lost to George W. Bush last time is electable this time around…sorry, but it isn’t gonna happen. Once you lose a Presidential nomination, coming back for another try is like making yourself into a punchline.

Remember, we said the same thing about Kerry and Gore. You don’t get a realistic second chance at running for President unless you’re tapped to be VP the first time you lose.

James on December 5, 2007 at 8:32 AM

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