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UnOfficial: Chavez loses referendum vote

posted at 11:14 pm on December 2, 2007 by Bryan
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According to the Venezuela Press (as translated by Google):

A page VenezuelaPress.com we have reached the following results:

NO: 6.534.648 NO: 6,534,648

SI: 5.864.560 SI: 5,864,560

Dif: 670.088 (5,4%) Diff: 670,088 (5.4%)

Estos números son con el 89% de las actas escrutadas, así que podrían cambiar. These numbers are with the 89% of minutes escrutadas, so it could change. Nuestra fuente indica que estos números vienen directo de la sala de totalización del CNE. Our source said that these numbers come directly from the room aggregation of the CNE.

Caracas Chronicles has been reporting for the past half hour that the referendum went down to defeat. But I’ll stress that this is an unofficial result.

Update: Still no official word on the result. But Reuters, which was basing its early reports of a Chavez victory on the word of government officials (meaning: Chavistas) is now playing a more neutral line that “Venezuela is locked in a tight vote.”

Update: I’m monitoring the comments in this post at Caracas Chronicles. It seems to be the only place with any kind of real time updates. Where are the 24-hour cables news nets on this story?

Update: There’s a video stream here. Whatever is going on doesn’t look good.

Update: Results are being announced. So far, the NO side is winning each question on the ballot.

Update: NO has won. Chavez has lost.

Update: Roughly, NO won 51% to 49%. Hugo Chavez is on Venezuelan TV doing something he hasn’t had to do before — deliver a concession speech. I’m watching on the link above. My Spanish is terrible, but it’s obvious from the look of the man that he’s unhappy with the result. Any Spanish speakers in the house tonight, feel free to translate Chavez’s speech in comments.

Update (AP): An encouraging result but does it matter? The EU constitution was rejected in referendums by European voters and that hasn’t killed the EU dream/nightmare. When tyrants want power, they keep pushing until they get it. Although this will, at least, delegitimize whatever Chavez has planned next.

Update: To answer AP, a NO vote is certainly better than a SI vote, and that Chavez is actually conceding is…surprising. For a while there, the video that was coming out of Caracas made it look like a coup might be underway or that Chavez might be considering declaring martial law and nulling the vote. And he may have considered that for all we know. If he did and was talked out of it, or he didn’t and decided to respect the vote (for now, anyway), either is a healthy sign, however short lived it might turn out to be.

This vote is different from the EU votes in one respect, its directness. Whether this means anything depends to a great extent on Chavez and whether he finds a way around the vote. It also depends on what the Venezuelan people do. They have handed him a serious defeat in front of the whole world. But he has until 2013 to undo this election and get himself made president for life. He lost tonight, but I doubt that he’s finished. Can he recover? Hopefully, the answer to that question will be the same as the one that a majority of Venezuelans delivered this time: NO.


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Comment pages: 1 2

One can only imagine what is transpiring at the top levels in Venezuela tonight.

Based simply on history, it seems a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.

wccawa on December 2, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Thanks Bryan.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 11:17 PM

Hugo can kill that many in the next few months and try again.

Griz on December 2, 2007 at 11:18 PM

He doesn’t have to kill anyone yet. The votes don’t count until Senor “Peanut Brain” Carter says they are valid.

jarhead05 on December 2, 2007 at 11:21 PM

I guess we wait for Jimmy to come and certify. These too close to call situations always smell if irony.

flyboy777 on December 2, 2007 at 11:23 PM

Chav boy will say that George Bush voted 72,000 times himself probably and that shifty columbian guy that needs killin probably stuffed boxes too. Lotsa folks will need killin to get to the bottom of this.

BL@KBIRD on December 2, 2007 at 11:24 PM

Carter is such a tool.

Hening on December 2, 2007 at 11:29 PM

Keep us up to date as more comes in

KBird on December 2, 2007 at 11:29 PM

So, what’s the guess on whether votes magically appear to nudge Chavez into a win, or he just says screw the charade and declares martial law?

Bad Candy on December 2, 2007 at 11:31 PM

or he just says screw the charade and declares martial law?

Bad Candy on December 2, 2007 at 11:31 PM

Then he will have a civil war on his hands.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:37 PM

It’s all part of the assassination attempt Bush (el Diablo) set in motion – c’mon, haven’t you all been listening to Castro? I’m sure the special forces are in place – ready to do their job…

Rick on December 2, 2007 at 11:37 PM

Regular updates here. Seems as though there has been a strange delay in announcing the results.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 11:40 PM

Everyone needs to send CITGO a condolence e-mail.

Limerick on December 2, 2007 at 11:40 PM

Regular updates here. Seems as though there has been a strange delay in announcing the results.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 11:40 PM

Which is a very good indicator that the government lost.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:43 PM

The key word there is “unofficial”.

steveegg on December 2, 2007 at 11:45 PM

Hoping, strongly hoping – the man is going to go wild. It’s all Messrs Bush, Aznar and the King of Spain’s fault. This is not going to be over easily. Mexico repeat.

If it goes our way, the clergy in Venezuela will have helped much to swing the masses.

Entelechy on December 2, 2007 at 11:46 PM

The only thing I can think of that is happening is Chavez is panicking. That can be very dangerous.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:46 PM

Which is a very good indicator that the government lost.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:43 PM

I do hope so.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 11:46 PM

I will wait until tomorrow to find out if the s*** hit the fan. And it will. Chavez will show his true colors.

mram on December 2, 2007 at 11:49 PM

The only thing I can think of that is happening is Chavez is panicking. That can be very dangerous.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:46 PM

Indeed. Some of the sites I’ve been reading think that he not only lost, but lost badly. This is speculation, of course. But if he did lose badly, and he can’t fudge it, then he might be “reviewing his options.”

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 11:49 PM

I’m wondering if he thinks he can pull it off. The silence speaks volumes. He’s mustering for the effort and trying to see if he can do it.

Meryl Yourish on December 2, 2007 at 11:53 PM

CNE is going to give the results

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:54 PM

They are going to confirm that what the electronic results tallied is true before they announce. Maybe 15 minutes :)

Ok, so they aren’t going to announce just yet

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:56 PM

apparently the “No representants” are not allowed to enter the room where the results are showned (sala totalización)… only one person (un testigo) but it is not the official representant of the bloque.

This might get nasty.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:57 PM

Enrique Marquez, representative of the NO group is very upset, they were not allowed in the tallying room.

(this a replay of Florida or what?)

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 11:59 PM

NO won, but Chavez won’t accept the result.

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:02 AM

What people (excepting Democrats) would knowingly vote to give a dictator more power?

Valiant on December 3, 2007 at 12:02 AM

Chavez will allege voter fraud by the opposition – somehow.

Rick on December 3, 2007 at 12:05 AM

12:53 PM No witness says he is not being allowed to see the totals and this violates the laws and the agreements. He was told he was not allowed in because of the “violence”

http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:06 AM

Riot police are moving in.

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:15 AM

There’s a video stream here. Whatever is going on doesn’t look good.

I have a feeling we might have a new Presidente in Venezuela soon. It’s just a hunch, but Chavez will not go quietly to defeat, and there must be some faction in the government or military that Chavez hasn’t gotten to yet who respect democracy. Coup?

Big S on December 3, 2007 at 12:15 AM

Daniel writes:

Trouble at the CNE, including insults and fist fights as the CNE personnel refused to let the NO witness to attend what they are supposed to attend. Or some other situation. CNN passed it live so the whole world can see what a primitive country we are.

If Chavez decides to refuse to recognize the results and makes a coup, his total and swift end will be staggering. He better accept the results and try to find a way to get back the initiative after a few months to let the memory of the defeat subside some.

Globovision says that CNE is abotu to emit its first bulletin.

amerpundit on December 3, 2007 at 12:16 AM

1:04

Trouble at the CNE, including insults and fist fights as the CNE personnel refused to let the NO witness to attend what they are supposed to attend. Or some other situation. CNN passed it live so the whole world can see what a primitive country we are.

If Chavez decides to refuse to recognize the results and makes a coup, his total and swift end will be staggering. He better accept the results and try to find a way to get back the initiative after a few months to let the memory of the defeat subside some.

Globovision says that CNE is abotu to emit its first bulletin.

http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/

1:00 As witnesses for the No vote fight with the military to have their rights respected, General Baduel comes on TV and says this delay is inexplicable and causes innecessary tenisons and he had warned the Electoral Board about this. Violent discussion between the military and the witnesses for the No who feel something may be up.

http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:17 AM

UPDATE 9: (11:00 PM CST) A election official representing the “No” side was not allowed into the room to see the totals and this violates the laws and the agreements. He was told he was not allowed in because of the “violence.” …Politicians are starting to get angry. They are now calling very harshly to the CNE to give results.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/12/door-shuts-on-venezuela-voting-begins.html

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:19 AM

8 million voted… and…

Vizzini on December 3, 2007 at 12:19 AM

Chavez will rig the vote somehow. He always does.

SoulGlo on December 3, 2007 at 12:20 AM

Caracas Chronicles:

Quico says: Venezuela rejects authoriarianism. It’s a historic day. The myth of Chávez the invincible is no more.

NO 50.7%
SÍ 49.3%

amerpundit on December 3, 2007 at 12:20 AM

Daniel:

Tibisay Lucena head of the CNE has announced that the NO has won!!!!!

amerpundit on December 3, 2007 at 12:21 AM

NO is 50.7%!

Vizzini on December 3, 2007 at 12:21 AM

Chavez is probably reading, as we speak, “Mein Kampf” to see how Hitler overcame his early electoral setbacks.

MB4 on December 3, 2007 at 12:21 AM

Fascinating.

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:22 AM

Watch to Globovision link for live updates (helps if you speak Spanish)

Vizzini on December 3, 2007 at 12:22 AM

Chavez is talking…

Vizzini on December 3, 2007 at 12:23 AM

Chavez is talking…

Please translate.

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:23 AM

(synopsis)

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:24 AM

The numbers are way too close. Something happened

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:24 AM

The numbers are way too close. Something happened

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:24 AM

Setting up to try again soon?

Big S on December 3, 2007 at 12:25 AM

Essentially a concession speech. He’s “speaking from the heart.”

Vizzini on December 3, 2007 at 12:26 AM

Vizzini

Thank you for the translation.

C-Low on December 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM

Estos números son con el 89% de las actas escrutadas, así que podrían cambiar.

These numbers are with 89% of scrutinized acts, so they could change.

MB4 on December 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM

Even if Chavez loses big enough were he cannot deny the loss I would be absolutely amazed if he actually steps down.

C-Low on December 3, 2007 at 12:32 AM

Of course, the Washington Post called it for Chavez.

Valiant on December 3, 2007 at 12:33 AM

Chavez did make an earlier speech where he said a “No” vote is a vote for Bush

William Amos on December 3, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Of course, the Washington Post called it for Chavez.

Valiant on December 3, 2007 at 12:33 AM

They had to go to press with what they had. Many of us work under deadline

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:35 AM

AP is reporting it now, too.

amerpundit on December 3, 2007 at 12:36 AM

Update (AP): An encouraging result but does it matter?

Chavez will pull a Nancy Pelosi and keep putting the matter up for vote after vote hoping the results change

William Amos on December 3, 2007 at 12:37 AM

They had to go to press with what they had. Many of us work under deadline

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Many of us do as well. With facts.

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:38 AM

I think the key thing is if Chavez looses this removes the idea that he is invincible. That alone will embolden the opposition

BTW look for some craziness still. People from Venezula were voting in the Miami Venezulan Embassy. I dont think all the foreign votes have been counted and Chavez might exploit that

William Amos on December 3, 2007 at 12:39 AM

thank god

William,
Or he’ll get his favorite useful idiot, Jimmy Carter, to claim the anti-referndum vote was rigged by the CIA therefore Chavez will have to take power for ‘the good of the people’

Defector01 on December 3, 2007 at 12:39 AM

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:35 AM

No offence intended….

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:41 AM

No offence intended….

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:41 AM

None taken, I was watching the blongs as the reporters were filing and they were noting the WP had to go to press.

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:44 AM

Chavez did make an earlier speech where he said a “No” vote is a vote for Bush

William Amos on December 3, 2007 at 12:35 AM

BUSH WINS! They keep misunderestimating the guy ;)

TheBigOldDog on December 3, 2007 at 12:46 AM

FOX news:

Breaking News >> Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Loses Constitutional Vote to Expand Powers

erik on December 3, 2007 at 12:49 AM

This may be a golden opportunity.

Chavez is almost certainly very depressed right now.

Is there anyone here who can impersonate Cindy Sheehan?

If so call him up and tell him that he is not the real man that you thought he was and break their affair off.

That might just push him to suicide.

It would be worth a try.

MB4 on December 3, 2007 at 12:51 AM

Well story was here

William Amos on December 3, 2007 at 12:51 AM

Or he’ll get his favorite useful idiot, Jimmy Carter, to claim the anti-referndum vote was rigged by the CIA therefore Chavez will have to take power for ‘the good of the people’

Valerie and her cabal sort screwed the pooch on the CIA effectiveness ever being believed.

Topsecretk9 on December 3, 2007 at 12:52 AM

This picture is Daniel Duquenal worn out constitution that will serve for a little while still. He carries it around a lot and you can tell by yourself how often he has consulted it.

This is an alive constitution, that he does not like, that he did not vote for but that he defended when Chavez wanted to gut it as he pleased. Yes, that constitution needs some changes, probably needs to be rewritten in full because its Spanish is lousy, but it is the only thing that all Venezuelans have in common. Had the SI won tonight it would have become a red book that woudl have been used by one part of the country to control the other part. Thus it would have stopped being a constitution. In spite of all the obscene governmental advantage, all the threats and blackmails, the Venezuelan people found the strength to say NO.
¡Gloria al Bravo Pueblo!

Picture and words are here
http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/2007/12/no-wins-in-venezuela.html

With that I bid you all a good evening.

bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:55 AM

Chavez already did the CIA plot thing

CIA plot Operations Pliers

William Amos on December 3, 2007 at 12:56 AM

¡Gloria al Bravo Pueblo!

Indeed. And a good evening to you too sir.

Topsecretk9 on December 3, 2007 at 1:07 AM

I’m waiting for the hanging chads defense.

hadsil on December 3, 2007 at 1:11 AM

Al Gore wants a recount.

Mojave Mark on December 3, 2007 at 1:25 AM

We can assume that there were, um, irregularities at the hands of the Chavistas and that the actual margin would’ve been much higher.

Still, this is more a stay of execution than a permanent defeat for Chavez.

flipflop on December 3, 2007 at 1:34 AM

I ask this half-seriously…Is Jim Carville or one of his clones advising Chavez?

Jim-Rose on December 3, 2007 at 1:40 AM

irregularities at the hands of the Chavistas and that the actual margin would’ve been much higher.

It musta been brutal for Sulfur head to go on TV.

I ask this half-seriously…Is Jim Carville or one of his clones advising Chavez?

I thought he only did Canada and Israel.

Topsecretk9 on December 3, 2007 at 1:57 AM

Several cabinet members didn’t know they were seeing their families for the last time this morning.

Limerick on December 3, 2007 at 2:06 AM

There is a glimmer of hope for humanity.

“To those who voted against my proposal, I thank them and congratulate them,” Chavez said.

Even a brute can fake display manners, at least once.

Entelechy on December 3, 2007 at 2:23 AM

Hugo can take a few lessons on how to get back at unruly voters.
We voted down the largest transportation tax increase in history. So on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving the state pulls 4 ferries out of service for “safety reasons. Now these safety concerns had been known for years so it’s kind of a timing issue, but most people are not buying the coincident angle. Now today they pulled a 5th ferry, for engine trouble, so only one to do the Edmonds/Kingston run. For more updates.

Gwillie on December 3, 2007 at 2:29 AM

Oh, in case you didnt guess, I live in Western Washington, just north of Seattle

Gwillie on December 3, 2007 at 2:31 AM

From the Venezuela News and Views

In spite of all the obscene governmental advantage, all the threats and blackmails, the Venezuelan people found the strength to say NO.

¡Gloria al Bravo Pueblo!

U.S.A., now it’s your turn to say NO to socialism!

Entelechy on December 3, 2007 at 2:39 AM

Hugo has like 6 more years or something to get this through. He’ll be polite this go around. He might tweak the next attempt a little to make it more appealing. He might compromise on a few piddly details and throw the people who voted NO a bone. He might even just have a coup if time gets too short. But he’ll get what he wants eventually, one way or another. It’s Hugo Chavez. What Hugo wants, Hugo gets. It’s inevitable, unless he somehow dies first.

SilverStar830 on December 3, 2007 at 3:03 AM

Hugo has like 6 more years or something to get this through. He’ll be polite this go around. He might tweak the next attempt

Of course, but this referendum was supposed to be a Chavez landslide! LANDSLIDE.

No doubt he’s weakened not just in our eyes, but in the eyes of the very people he rules and tried to impose more rule. He blinked, and he succumbed, but he will have to think really hard and twice before declaring any military rule etc. etc. – he’s got 51% plus army looking eagle eye at his ass — 51% PLUS who filled the streets facing consequences, %51 percent visually made like every anti-war protest for the last 4 years look peanutish and pathetic I might add.

Topsecretk9 on December 3, 2007 at 4:18 AM

Well, I don’t know if this will make any difference in the long run, but for the NO vote and the lack of an immediate declaration of martial law and lack of a mass murder of the opposition, I say:
Thank God!

LegendHasIt on December 3, 2007 at 5:39 AM

Gwillie –

Did the King County Elections team make it out safely to Venezuela? It’s so close that if Chavez is still going to pull it out, he will need help from the professionals…

rbb on December 3, 2007 at 6:29 AM

I hope things will remain peaceful.

Zorro on December 3, 2007 at 6:40 AM

hey had to go to press with what they had. Many of us work under deadline
bnelson44 on December 3, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Even the NYT put the story to bed leaving it undecided. Dewey Defeats Truman is no longer acceptable in today’s information age.

Valiant on December 3, 2007 at 6:50 AM

It aint over ‘til the fat man bleeds.

TheSitRep on December 3, 2007 at 6:53 AM

Jummi Carter is onboard a gulf stream en route to Caracas.
His mission is to invalidate the election.

TheSitRep on December 3, 2007 at 7:00 AM

He should have called some members of the Cook Co Hispanic Democratic Org. down there, they would have brought in all the south and west side churches too, and he would have won hands down. No problemo.

Anyway, I’ve got some drywalling work for him if he’s interested. 36 bucks a sheet? Hung, taped & sanded, right?

LtE126 on December 3, 2007 at 7:51 AM

It goes to show you that you have kill enough of the right people to win.

drjohn on December 3, 2007 at 8:24 AM

rbb on December 3, 2007 at 6:29 AM

That only works for mail in ballots, they tend to get found in hallways and storerooms.

Gwillie on December 3, 2007 at 8:33 AM

Truth to power.

I am suprised that Chavez has conceded considering he already had pre-blamed the CIA for his defeat with the Operation Pliers/Pincers memo.

BohicaTwentyTwo on December 3, 2007 at 8:38 AM

Thank God. A hair-splitting majority of Venezuelans have common sense. Here’s hoping that somehow that 50.7% can somehow keep this goon’s ego in check until 2013.

What’s the over/under on a martial law declaration and a civil war?

flutejpl on December 3, 2007 at 9:18 AM

Hugo: “Can I be Dictator for Life? Pretty please?”
Venezuela: “Ahhhh…No.”

mojo on December 3, 2007 at 10:08 AM

One thing ya gotta give credit to Chavez for: he conceded at least 2 months before AlGore ever did.

Coronagold on December 3, 2007 at 10:09 AM

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