Israeli scientist: The September raid on Syria hit a nuclear bomb factory

posted at 7:40 pm on December 2, 2007 by Bryan

Not a nuclear reactor. A nuclear bomb factory, with North Korea providing the plutonium.

Professor Uzi Even of Tel Aviv University was one of the founders of the Israeli nuclear reactor at Dimona, the source of the Jewish state’s undeclared nuclear arsenal.

“I suspect that it was a plant for processing plutonium, namely, a factory for assembling the bomb,” he said. “I think the DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea] transferred to Syria weapons-grade plutonium in raw form, that is nuggets of easily transported metal in protective cans. I think the shaping and casting of the plutonium was supposed to be in Syria.”

From beneath the veil of military censorship, western commentators have formed a consensus that the target was a nuclear reactor under construction.

But Even said that purely from scientific observation, he had reached a different conclusion – that it was a nuclear bomb factory, posing a more immediate danger to Israel. He said that satellite photos of the site, taken before the Israeli strike on September 6, showed no sign of the cooling towers and chimneys characteristic of nuclear reactors.

Syria’s haste after the attack to bury the site under tons of soil suggested that hundreds of square yards were contaminated and there were fears of radiation, the professor added.

Since then the Syrians have sealed up the location, levelled the site and diverted curious journalists to a place that had not been attacked by Israel.

The professor’s theory fits with authoritative technical evidence about North Korea’s nuclear weapons programme. The North Koreans are able to produce weapons-grade plutonium, which is electro-refined, alloyed and cast into shapes ready to be machined to fit into a warhead, according to a team of distinguished American nuclear weapons scientists who visited the country’s laboratories.

I’ll stress that this is one scientist’s theory, but given who the scientist is and the secrecy that has followed the raid and the story that followed about how close the raid came to sparking a wider war, it makes as much sense as anything else. It does sort of fit with an earlier report that Israel’s target was Syrian missiles. The target could have been Syrian missiles that were being fit with nuclear payloads. It would be difficult to imagine a more urgent scenario, one that forced the Israelis to act, than that.

(via Jihad Watch)


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For sure it was something juicy, or we’d know every detail about it by now.

Bob's Kid on December 2, 2007 at 7:46 PM

Geez Bryan that story was on the AP News on Nov 7th

AP News Syria a bomb factory

William Amos on December 2, 2007 at 7:48 PM

Opps sorry November 22nd not the 7th

William Amos on December 2, 2007 at 7:49 PM

But Even said that purely from scientific observation, he had reached a different conclusion – that it was a nuclear bomb factory, posing a more immediate danger to Israel. He said that satellite photos of the site, taken before the Israeli strike on September 6, showed no sign of the cooling towers and chimneys characteristic of nuclear reactors.

You don’t need cooling towers if the reactor is a “research reactor” and not a power plant. The cooling towers is to cool the steam after it travels through a turbine in a power plant. See how do nuclear power plant work, here:
http://www.southerncompany.com/southernnuclear/how.asp

I’m not sure about chimneys.

bnelson44 on December 2, 2007 at 7:55 PM

William Amos on December 2, 2007 at 7:49 PM

Well go ahead and shoot me, I didn’t see the story then.

Bryan on December 2, 2007 at 7:55 PM

We better stop thinking of our adversaries as dumb. At very least start to understand that they are devious.

Problem: pressure stunts inevitable weapon development
Solution: get a bomb (cart before horse) – discussion over

Developing a weapon is clearly Iran’s goal. Delivery via a missile is only a small technical problem, solved with petrodollars to the Russians or Chinese.

When you are determined to produce a weapons, your mind is on the future. That day when you have them. At that time, the issue of stopping development becomes mute. So how do you jump to that end? Buy one, or the parts.

Why Syria? Well it is closer to Israel. If an immediate strike is the goal, the delivery is easier. More practically – Iran is essentially landlocked (with US forces swarming the Gulf).

While it seems more practical to just send scientist (or guys with check books) to No Korea, and produce the weapon there – those Persians have their pride.

Agrippa2k on December 2, 2007 at 7:58 PM

Well go ahead and shoot me, I didn’t see the story then.

Bryan on December 2, 2007 at 7:55 PM

Ha! I really do not spend too much time searching for stories, that’s why I visit Hot Air and Michelle. It seems we have similar interests in news items and they are a convenient “one stop shop”!

Thanks Bryan.

Zorro on December 2, 2007 at 8:00 PM

What we need is a clandestine service that manipulates our enemies for our own interests. We could call it the Central Intelligence Agency.

Talk the No Koreans into selling their nuke materials. Better for them than just scrapping it (like that could every be trusted). In an elaborate sting, you could kill two birds…

If only we had such an organization.

Agrippa2k on December 2, 2007 at 8:03 PM

We better stop thinking of our adversaries as dumb. At very least start to understand that they are devious.

Understatement of the century.

aengus on December 2, 2007 at 8:09 PM

At least somebody knows what’s going on. The nutcase islamists are North Korea’s perfect low-cost delivery system. All they have to do is sit back and enjoy.

Griz on December 2, 2007 at 8:15 PM

Nancy Pelosi must be livid.

Buzzy on December 2, 2007 at 8:15 PM

Not surprising. I wish our leaders had the cajones Israel does.

SouthernGent on December 2, 2007 at 8:17 PM

I wonder if NK took the cash and them tipped us off…

TheBigOldDog on December 2, 2007 at 8:19 PM

It’s not necessary to have cooling towers.

Here is a link that shows Kewaunee nuclear station in Wisconsin. See any cooling towers? That blue stuff in front is Lake Michigan works really well for cooling, sometimes too well. Cooling towers are used when there is no large natural heat sink nearby or for environmental reasons.

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 8:19 PM

I wonder if NK took the cash and them tipped us off…

TheBigOldDog on December 2, 2007 at 8:19 PM

The NKs may be trying to unload a bunch of impure Plutonium that they’ve manufactured. Like the stuff they made their fizzle with. “Sure it’s bomb grade, trust us. That’ll be a billion dollars please.”

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 8:22 PM

Interesting article. If they were manufacturing the end-product there, and assuming it is true that they deferred the strike a few months for the US concerns, either they had not yet come on-line fully or there might be some loose-ends. The silence and the fact that the Syrians bulldozed it would suggest that the site is perhaps radioactive and dangerous.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 8:26 PM

Well go ahead and shoot me, I didn’t see the story then.

Bryan on December 2, 2007 at 7:55 PM

LOl would be a self inflicted wound as I do the same thing all the time.

Kinda glad this didnt get debated that much before. Is an important story

William Amos on December 2, 2007 at 8:26 PM

How were these facilities compared to what the Iranians have? Could they have been coordinating?

Bad Candy on December 2, 2007 at 8:27 PM

And yet just last week the US was running around crowing that we got Syria to show up at the ‘Peace Conference’ in Annapolis.

WTF? If they are doing this crap, the last thing we should be doing is giving them any sort of legitimacy.

I miss the old GWB and Condi Rice.

Drew on December 2, 2007 at 8:31 PM

and assuming it is true that they deferred the strike a few months for the US concerns,
Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 8:26 PM

That’s what’s weird about this. The story you are referring to, about stalling for a while, also specifically named Rice (if I am remembering right). I find it very disturbing that, if this is true, the former national security advisor, who now “runs” the state dept. would stall for even one day, knowing that NK nuke stuff was going to Syria for assembly. Even if there were some loose-ends…that’s a mighty deadly game of dice.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 8:33 PM

Drew on December 2, 2007 at 8:31 PM

I miss Reagan…and The Duke.

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 8:36 PM

What is good about this is that all the presidential debates have dealt with substantive foreign policy questions in terms of nuclear proliferation, black market sales, etc. With a month to go till the nomination, the American people can make informed decisions. (wakka wakka)

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 8:37 PM

William Amos on December 2, 2007 at 7:49 PM

Well go ahead and shoot me, I didn’t see the story then.

Bryan on December 2, 2007 at 7:55 PM

Charlotte Taylor Wilson: You don’t really believe the people are happy!
Don Diego: All I know is the soldiers are quite happy shooting the people who say the people are not happy.
[Diego is about to be shot]

MB4 on December 2, 2007 at 8:37 PM

Zorro on December 2, 2007 at 8:00 PM

Esteban: To guards: Remember, he is cunning, he is crafty. He’s not just going to walk in here and say ‘Here I am!’
Zorro: Here I am!

MB4 on December 2, 2007 at 8:39 PM

I’m still scratching my head at the almost total disinterest in this story. It’s almost like there’s some sort of blackout about it. You’d think someone in the Middle East, at least, would have screamed bloody murder about the Israelis attacking an Arab State. Nothing. Silence.

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 8:41 PM

Not surprising. I wish our leaders had the cajones Israel does.

SouthernGent on December 2, 2007 at 8:17 PM

I have a feeling Israel had the backing of the Bush Administration in this operation.

infidel4life on December 2, 2007 at 8:43 PM

No! I’m over here!

Zorro on December 2, 2007 at 8:48 PM

I’m still scratching my head at the almost total disinterest in this story. It’s almost like there’s some sort of blackout about it. You’d think someone in the Middle East, at least, would have screamed bloody murder about the Israelis attacking an Arab State. Nothing. Silence.

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 8:41 PM

I suspect that the Israelis just scared the bejeebers out of the bad neighbours. I mean, think about it, they flew thousands of miles UNDETECTED, blew something up, and flew back with no reprisals. People used to talk about how they were worried that Israel lost its nerve with the Hezb’allah war thing and all the peace negotiations. This incident just goes to prove the primarily Islamic states should watch their “p”s and “q”s. That if need be, the Israelis will pull off the most unbelievable operations to defend themselves.

Or the simple explanation – everyone knew Syria had it coming and Syria is lucky no bombs “accidentally” landed in Damascus on the IAF’s flight plan…

mjk on December 2, 2007 at 8:50 PM

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 8:33 PM

We are of one mind on that. I think that story is very likely, I’ve seen it reported in both the American and Israeli press, which have at least some difference in agenda of course.

Interestingly, there is no way we can claim success with NK legitimately unless State thinks it is 1) an aborration or worse 2)it is not particularly concerned about nuclear proliferation, assuming a J. Carter viewpoint of nuclear balance in the ME is akin to the Cold War standoff. Ie neither side will use b/c of mutual-assured destruction. I would not have thought Rice would be open to that view, but her comments of late relating the South and the Palestinians have washed away my remaining doubts of her views.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 8:51 PM

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 8:41 PM

That is part of why we know it was a big deal. No one can afford to make a public issue of it, everyone is pleased to sweep it under the closet.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 8:53 PM

er, under the rug.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 8:53 PM

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 8:51 PM

So what do you think the inclusion of Syria was all about a Annapolis, given this story, assuming it’s true?

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 8:57 PM

mjk on December 2, 2007 at 8:50 PM

Interesting theory, but I think there’s more to it than that. Even our press is staying away from the story and they should be all over it slamming Dubbya for supporting the Israelis, even if he didn’t. Demanding an explanation. I don’t think Helen Thomas has said a word about it.

Besides the only reason that Israel’s neighbors don’t attack them is fear. It hasn’t turned out well for them in the past when they got (pick one from the following list) 1.Brave 2.Stupid

Oldnuke on December 2, 2007 at 9:00 PM

These are indeed exciting times. The Arab Muslims have had their asses handed to them several times by the Israelis. Watch and see what happens when they try and nuke the people of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Bad form.

Mojave Mark on December 2, 2007 at 9:11 PM

So what do you think the inclusion of Syria was all about a Annapolis, given this story, assuming it’s true?

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 8:57 PM

My guess right now is that it was predominately to try to divide Syria from Iran akin to Britain’s attempts to do the same with Italy/Germany in the run up to WWII. I’d guess the message was ‘we’ll forget this if you slow cooperation with Iran’. Oh h3ll, maybe Condi just wanted to know what was on his ipod.

Seriously though, if reports are true, the G.Heights had to be on the agenda for them to come. Which, on it’s face, seems counter-intuitive; I mean, catching them red-handed, the US should have the upper hand. Our invitation, and acquiescence to get their presence seems to me to indicate State thought it was needed. Hard to see how it is necessary for Israel (assuming an argument of need Syria to maintain peace in 2-state solution) as Israel just hit them so hard and so precisely that Syria couldn’t even whine.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 8:57 PM

Italy from Germany, I mean. It’s all very curious, what’s your take?

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Well go ahead and shoot me, I didn’t see the story then.

Bryan on December 2, 2007 at 7:55 PM

It’s a shooting offense only if you were holding a Mohammed Teddy Bear while typing.

ajmontana on December 2, 2007 at 9:20 PM

Hmmm, what to say, what to say…since this is exactly the conclusion that I came to when the story first broke I suppose I should just sit back a chuckle…

doriangrey on December 2, 2007 at 9:35 PM

My thoughts are along the same line. Obviously, with Syria on the “invite” list, it looked like one of those ‘one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other’ puzzles. There were a lot of big players in the Middle East diplomatic game that were present, and Syria, in terms of diplomatic standing, was the odd man out. If you got everyone else to be on the side of the U.S., Syria would come away feeling awfully lonely with their only buddy, Iran, stuck at home hosting “death to America” parties. It might cause Syria to rethink which side they want to be on. The down side to this is that that is the exact same kind of isolation diplomacy that has been used with NK. And look where that has gotten us. All it takes is for another president, with a different State Dept. to unravel what the previous Admin. “accomplished.” Time will tell, but there is really nothing about this story that is encouraging…except for the bombing of the site of course. Also, the bombing of the site did more to retard the proliferation of nukes in Syria, than any NPT.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 9:43 PM

I’m wondering if N. Korea’s tests of both missiles and nuclear explosion(s?) were meant to prove to oil-rich Islamic suitors that N. Korea could deliver the components necessary for a nuclear missile attack. At the time, many people thought it was a show of ego, but maybe it was more than that…a proof of concept required to “seal the deal” and bring large sums of money into N. Korea. What does N. Korea care if Iran buys the components, assembles them in Syria, and launches nuclear missiles at Israel?

ITookTheRedPill on December 2, 2007 at 9:44 PM

Hmmm, what to say, what to say…since this is exactly the conclusion that I came to when the story first broke I suppose I should just sit back a chuckle… choke….

doriangrey on December 2, 2007 at 9:35 PM

There, fixed that for ya.

R D on December 2, 2007 at 9:45 PM

Also, the bombing of the site did more to retard the proliferation of nukes in Syria, than any NPT.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 9:43 PM

I separate out that line, merely to note that I laughed. So true, so true.

As to the other, I agree – accounts for S. Arabia’s token as well. Certainly they weren’t there to shake Livni’s hand.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 9:47 PM

There, fixed that for ya.

R D on December 2, 2007 at 9:45 PM

Now why would I do that…

doriangrey on December 2, 2007 at 9:52 PM

Clearly the world media’s motto is:

No nukes is good nukes.

profitsbeard on December 2, 2007 at 9:59 PM

Well,the North Korean’s were not in Syria for a vacation
after all,so maybe Pelosi needs to make a trip to Syria
again,Liberal fact finding and all.

And again Israel has stalled off another plan to save
themselves from extinction,accept for the United States,
Israel isn’t waiting around for the sound of Ka-boom,
hearing Israel dish it out,is music to my ears,hahaha.

canopfor on December 2, 2007 at 10:00 PM

Maybe just cut to the chase,as in Dr.Strangelove,
let Syria or Iran know you have the “Doomsday Device”,
it makes quick work of a country,or is that too
sensitive to the Liberal political correctors.
(I’m being a tad sarcastic!)

canopfor on December 2, 2007 at 10:08 PM

So what do you think the inclusion of Syria was all about a Annapolis, given this story, assuming it’s true?

I’ve been kind of baffled about Annapolis, because what seems crystal clear is that it is NOT about a “two state solution peace-deal” I mean, Abbas is Fatah, right? Who is really running things–Hamas, right? Hamas has always said that they would never, never, ever go for a peace deal with Israel, and we have no reason to doubt their sincerity on that point. Nothing Abbas signs will be worth the paper it is printed on in the Terrortories (sic) or Gaza. More likely it will lead to more of what happened in Gaza when Fatah got their lunch handed to them. So Syria may have been included in Annapolis to peel them off of Iran, or at least to get their heads pointed in that direction? If you follow that possibility, then it looks like Israel got to plays Sipowicz giving them a good “tuning up,” and we get to be Jimmy Smits (Bobby?), and offer them a cup of coffee.

smellthecoffee on December 2, 2007 at 10:23 PM

Geez Bryan that story was on the AP News on Nov 7th

Actually, the big news is that the Times Online, and its hack Uzi Mahnaimi, are recycling a story that hit a week and a half ago, and of course, sensationalizing. WIRED had it back then as well.

Leave it the Times and their pet anti-Israel myth machine to bring out this kind of sensationalist crap:

All governments concerned – even the regime in Damascus – have tried to maintain complete secrecy about the raid.

They apparently fear that forcing a confrontation on the issue could spark a war between Israel and Syria, end the Middle East peace talks and wreck America’s extremely complex negotiations to disarm North Korea of its nuclear weapons.

Let me emphasize one more time, people, what a fabulist Uzi Mahnaimi has turned out to be. He has predicted war between Israel and Syria at least a half dozen times in the last few years. He has declared Israel on the verge of invading Gaza probably as many times. And his is the byline behind the mythological “gene bomb” that is supposed to be able to differentiate between Arabs and Israelis (an impossibility), thus becoming the world’s first “ethnic bomb.”

Mahnaimi deserves a major warning lable, and the Times Online has lost my respect partly as a result of him.

Meryl Yourish on December 2, 2007 at 10:32 PM

As I was writing my earlier post (9:44 PM), I was thinking, “Now what if China (who has better missiles and more powerful nukes) were to sell their wares to radical Muslims?” I stopped short of saying that, not wanting to go too far, but then I just read this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314534,00.html

Good Lord. The last thing we need is Muslim extremists with nuclear missiles. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) worked as a deterrent during the cold war, but doesn’t do a thing to deter an extremist who eagerly awaits his (and your) destruction on the way to his 77 virgins…

ITookTheRedPill on December 2, 2007 at 10:35 PM

Abbas is Fatah, right? Who is really running things–Hamas, right? Hamas has always said that they would never, never, ever go for a peace deal with Israel, and we have no reason to doubt their sincerity on that point. Nothing Abbas signs will be worth the paper it is printed on in the Terrortories (sic) or Gaza.

Take with a grain of salt: Hamas has made some noises about return in the Fatah fold.

Abbas was, supposedly, the one that pushed Arafat to authorize the finishing of the Oslo Accords. That is my best guess as to why the US and Israel claim they “have a partner”. But that’s like saying Condi, NSA is the same as Condi, SoS. People change with responsibilities/power so personal history may not be relevant to frame expectations.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 10:37 PM

I realize that the link talks about “missiles to allegedly target hotels and other buildings” but my point is that if China would sell these missles to AQ, what’s to say they wouldn’t also sell larger ones….

ITookTheRedPill on December 2, 2007 at 10:39 PM

Take with a grain of salt: Hamas has made some noises about return in the Fatah fold.

That sound totally counter-intuitive to me. Hamas pwned Fatah in Gaza, and won the election in the West Bank. Why should they play footsie with Fatah? I’d love to read something on that if you have it handy.

smellthecoffee on December 2, 2007 at 10:49 PM

No worries, the US Left, IAEA, and the UN say there is no Nuclear Weapons program in North Korea. And if there was, they are years from being able to produce enough plutonium to build more than a few bombs – if at all.

Neo on December 2, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Bush wouldn’t reveal Hussein’s export of WMDs to Syria to salvage the negotiations with Putin. And what benefit resulted from that? Now he won’t divulge the Israeli bombing target to salvage negotiations with NK? Ho-hum. Meanwhile he gets trashed by an electorate that doesn’t understand what the hell he’s doing… because he won’t tell them anything about it. Then we wonder why such a large percentage of Americxans don’t take seriously the ‘war on terrorism.’

petefrt on December 2, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Allah

Makes you kind of reassess another old story that never seemed to make sense at the time.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L19908453.htm

Iranian, Syrian ranking members hurt and killed in some odd missile explosion? Thoughts at the time were chem/bio but maybe it was instead radiological?

C-Low on December 2, 2007 at 11:04 PM

re: Syria, NK, Iran, from the JPost today:

Senior officials in the Prime Minister’s Office said the North Korea-Syrian connection was not raised when Song met with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. The two men did, however, discuss the Iranian nuclear issue, with Olmert stressing the importance of economic sanctions against Iran, including those that bypass the UN Security Council.

Livni was more blunt, saying “the international community is concentrating efforts to sever commercial and financial relations with Iran, to increase pressure on that country, and we must not allow Iran to evade these significant actions by presenting Asian alternatives. When Europe takes action against Iran – Iran turns to Asia.”

—————–

Why should they play footsie with Fatah? I’d love to read something on that if you have it handy.
smellthecoffee on December 2, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Same as your example: Good cop/Bad cop. The ‘peaceful’ branch does it’s part to get Israel to make concessions and the non-peaceful part continues the irritant to continue to force Israel to the table with the ‘peaceful’ part. Violence is what kept the last deal from being done, and so just to get back to the table Israel has to give up more than before each time.

I don’t have a link on hand, sadly. But I do some digging and see if I can find it again.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM

ITookTheRedPill on December 2, 2007 at 10:35 PM

WOW! That seems really strange, given how one would assume that China would want to do as little as possible to make waves. I would think that they would continue to allow others to play the part of the “bad guy,” while they play the part of necessary evil. Selling advanced weaponry to a country is one thing, and even letting small arms funnel through the black market to non-state entities hardly causes a ripple, but allowing missiles to get into the hands of AQ is another thing all together. At least it is from my perspective.

Weight of Glory on December 2, 2007 at 11:12 PM

Same as your example: Good cop/Bad cop. The ‘peaceful’ branch does it’s part to get Israel to make concessions and the non-peaceful part continues the irritant to continue to force Israel to the table with the ‘peaceful’ part.

Interesting. I’m not sure I buy it, but I’ll keep an open mind. Hamas is hard-line Islamist, they’ve been banning music festivals where women sing, etc. If Abbas does sign something, he’d better sleep with one eye open. Even if the Pals win what is now a tepid war, they will surely lose the peace. With all those militias over there, it will be warlord against warlord, although Hamas kicks ass in the end. Then, armed with whatever terriorial or security concessions it has won from Israel in your scenario, they attack again. Same crap, over and over. There never was a worse year for bombings than the year following Oslo. The memory of that bombing during the holiday of Purim still makes me nauseous. Maybe Likud will manage to get Netanyahu in there before they can conclude this disaster in the making.

But I do some digging and see if I can find it again.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM

I’d appreciate it.

smellthecoffee on December 2, 2007 at 11:27 PM

smellthecoffee, I can’t find the original article I read right off…Here’s one that comments on the steps toward conciliatory action. I skimmed a few that asserted stated that the EU was pressuring the two to resolve their differences, and a few cataloging the Fatah was asking Israel to restraint force in Gaza as it would hurt the talks, but not the original one I was thinking off. Sorry…grain of salt anyway.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 11:30 PM

SMG, here we go:

On Wednesday, Hamas said that it will hold reconciliation talks with Fatah and hinted it may be ready to give up control of the Gaza Strip.

The article link where the above is quoted from.
And the EU says they will accept it and deal through Fatah administrators.
Then that 11.04 article from the other post, Abbas releases Hamas prisoners.

I’m not sure I buy it

That’s good, I’m not selling:) Just somethings I had read/heard. Hard to tell what’s what, all media seems to have a viewpoint to push.

Spirit of 1776 on December 2, 2007 at 11:45 PM

Thanks for that article; that’s a development I’d totally missed. I wonder what Hamas is up to. It’s like a code-language they’re talking in, isn’t it? Maybe the loss of European money is taking its toll. I don’t think that this gets Abbas anywhere except that it cements his position as fair-haired boy in the eyes of the US (ka-ching). It certainly isn’t going to lead to a deal, as the article you cited makes clear.

Reconciliation between the two factions would undermine all of Israel and America’s efforts to isolate Hamas and rout out extremism in region. Hamas refuses to recognize Israel’s right to exist and advocates violent resistance against the Jewish state.

Israel has warned PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas not to reunite with Hamas.

“Hamas is a terror organization, and any connection of any type whatsoever to Hamas will not bring peace – not to Israel and not to the Palestinians,” a Foreign Ministry official said.

Either way–no deal. If Abbas goes it alone w/o Hamas, then they reject the deal internally. If Abbas tries to go with Hamas, then Israel rejects any deal. I don’t think Pres. Bush would force them on this point either, because he was one of the first President to use the T-word with respect to the Pals, and pushed for the isolation of Hamas y Europe. My original question remains, since it ain’t about a deal, what was Annapolis about? I can’t believe Pres. Bush is ignorant of all this. So what’s his game? I also disagree about the legacy angle that the MSM is pushing. Legacies are for egotists. Whatever other faults Pres. Bush may have, that isn’t one of them. In the meantime I wrote to a friend I have at Jpost; it’ll be interesting to get his take.

smellthecoffee on December 3, 2007 at 12:09 AM

I wonder what Hamas is up to. It’s like a code-language they’re talking in, isn’t it?

Yeah. I don’t know what their game is. I mean I can think of a few benefits, but not strong enough to project as causes/motivators.

My original question remains, since it ain’t about a deal, what was Annapolis about? I can’t believe Pres. Bush is ignorant of all this. So what’s his game? I also disagree about the legacy angle that the MSM is pushing.

I agree re: Bush; I highly doubt this is legacy related. However, if Bolton is to be believed, which I have no reason to question, outside of Iraq foreign policy is delegated to Condi.

Bolton commented she has more power than any of her predecessors back to Kissinger’s dual office — which is not meant as an insult to Bush, merely a comment on his faith in her. So what did she hope Annapolis would accomplish that fits into his administrations vision? Got me.

Spirit of 1776 on December 3, 2007 at 12:26 AM

Imagine a world without Israel

Compare the world reaction and news coverage for this to the reactions when Israelis bulldoze the house of a terrorist. Where is ambulance-man and the fake victims?

where is Michael Moore? These were harmless plutonium smelters.

I have been praying the Israelis would move. I hope it was effective.

I owe them one

entagor on December 3, 2007 at 1:21 AM

I suspect that the Israelis just scared the bejeebers out of the bad neighbours. I mean, think about it, they flew thousands of miles UNDETECTED, blew something up, and flew back with no reprisals.

Not only bombed them, I read somewhere that commandos went in first and may have secured some of the material.

peacenprosperity on December 3, 2007 at 7:47 AM

Spirit of 1776 on December 3, 2007 at 12:26 AM

Here’s what my jpost friend had to offer. (A column he’d already written, but very much on point.) His thesis is that the “peace process” is much less determinative of events in the Middle East, than it is reflective of them.

Money quote:

We should remember that the last major wave of peacemaking, starting with the 1991 Madrid Conference and culminating in the 1993 Oslo Principles, came precisely at a time of US ascendance. The Soviet Union had recently collapsed, and a US-led coalition had summarily reversed Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait. . .

Whether 2008 is the year that Arabs and Israelis agree to make peace depends most of all on whether it is the year that Iran’s terrorist regime falls, is forced to capitulate, or is otherwise convincingly prevented from obtaining the Bomb.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1195546761780&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer

smellthecoffee on December 3, 2007 at 9:22 AM

Iranian, Syrian ranking members hurt and killed in some odd missile explosion? Thoughts at the time were chem/bio but maybe it was instead radiological?

C-Low on December 2, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Of course it was, the Iranians were attempting to modify a couple of their Shahab-3 missiles from carrying chemical warheads to allow it to carry what they anticipated would be their new nuclear warhead.

Unfortunately for the Iranians the Israeli’s blew up their missiles, stole their plutonium and then blew up their Syrian Nuclear weapons assembly facility.

doriangrey on December 3, 2007 at 9:26 AM

smellthecoffee on December 3, 2007 at 9:22 AM

Thanks, for posting the link; that was an interesting read.
“Even if Iran did not exist, it would be an uphill battle to convince the Arab world to actually give up, rather than merely go through the motions of giving up, what has become a key organizing principle of both its politics and society. Peace with Israel in the Arab mind, even in the context of creating a Palestinian state, means acquiescing in a monumental act of injustice.”

Spirit of 1776 on December 3, 2007 at 9:36 AM

Well you should be all cheery and warm inside knowing that China has a long history of furnishing weapons to Islamic Maniacs. (Btw my definition of Islamic maniacs includes all muslims who are devout…just saying).

As I was writing my earlier post (9:44 PM), I was thinking, “Now what if China (who has better missiles and more powerful nukes) were to sell their wares to radical Muslims?” I stopped short of saying that, not wanting to go too far, but then I just read this:

See this remarkable investigative piece put together by little ole moi for more information on China selling technology to our enemies.

Missile used against Israeli ship was developed in China

Or this Strangelovian Joyride to Hell

PierreLegrand on December 3, 2007 at 10:45 AM

How do we know any of this is true?
The Israelis also told us Saddam had WMD’s.

Missile used against Israeli ship was developed in China

Here is more info for you.
http://www.gtr5.com/

KMC1 on December 3, 2007 at 2:02 PM

How do we know any of this is true?
The Israelis also told us Saddam had WMD’s.

I do not know about the Israelis.
But the French, Brits, Russkies, and G.d knows how many other countries did.

davod on December 3, 2007 at 3:00 PM

davod on December 3, 2007 at 3:00 PM

I don’t know how that pertains to Israel bombing Syria and claiming it was a Nuclear facility?

KMC1 on December 3, 2007 at 4:03 PM

Too bad it is just a matter of time before these nutts will have the bomb with a way to deliver it. It is hard to freeze time and “progress”. After all, it has been 50 years since we invented the bomb, and other crazy Muslum countries have one.

Buckle up, trouble is on the way sooner or later.

saiga on December 3, 2007 at 4:18 PM

KMC1 – Let’s get this perfectly clear; Are you saying that Saddam didn’t have WMDs, or are you going to shut up before you embarrass yourself further?

In other words, is this statement on your part carelessness, ignorance, or maliciousness?

Merovign on December 3, 2007 at 4:31 PM

KMC1 – Let’s get this perfectly clear; Are you saying that Saddam didn’t have WMDs, or are you going to shut up before you embarrass yourself further?

In other words, is this statement on your part carelessness, ignorance, or maliciousness?

Merovign on December 3, 2007 at 4:31 PM

Wow. Stopped taking your medications today huh?
Please tell me that you don’t really believe a couple hundred mustard gas shells were the *real* reason we went to war with Iraq?

KMC1 on December 3, 2007 at 4:47 PM

KMC1 – Answer the question or continue to look like an idiot, your choice.

Though it seems obvious at this point which choice you’re going to make.

Merovign on December 3, 2007 at 9:14 PM