Video: When suicide bombers attack

posted at 1:23 pm on December 1, 2007 by Allahpundit

Submitted for your disapproval, an illustration of the challenge faced daily by U.S. and Iraqi troops — how to identify a mass murderer who betrays no sense of ill ease before he strikes? This clip comes from Sri Lanka, not Iraq, as you might have guessed by the fact that nearly everyone makes it out of the room alive; the attacker was presumably sent by the Tamil Tigers, who pioneered the technique of suicide bombing, to assassinate a local official who’s opposed them in the past. Keep your eye on the woman in the yellow sari and white shawl with her hair in a bun. She’s at the end of the line in the first shot as another woman approaches.

There isn’t much blood here but it is a clip of a murder so please observe your official content warning.

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Wow…all I can say is Wow. how could anyone allow themselves to be talked into something like that?

doriangrey on December 1, 2007 at 1:39 PM

Yeah the religion of peace strikes again.

WildBillK on December 1, 2007 at 1:42 PM

Wow…all I can say is Wow. how could anyone allow themselves to be talked into something like that?

True Believers.

BJ* on December 1, 2007 at 1:44 PM

If they showed this clip on the news and cable stations, the resolve of this country regarding the War on Terror would galvanize immediately. This is a perfect example of the mindset of the terrorists. This woman wasn’t blowing her self up because of the Great Satan or because America is occupying her country. She is part of an evil fanatical movement that needs to be defeated.

She doesn’t even kill her target. Some bureaucrat is processing her papers and tells her to sit over there. So she blows him and her self up.

Hey libtards, this is what we are fighting against.

Mallard T. Drake on December 1, 2007 at 1:44 PM

Yeah the religion of peace strikes again.

Er, no, it doesn’t. Did you read the post? The Tamil Tigers did this, not Muslims.

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 1:45 PM

She is part of an evil fanatical movement that needs to be defeated.

Yes, that’s true, but not an Islamic one.

Seriously, do people here even read the posts before those knees start jerking?

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Allah: as I understand it she was targeting just the one guy on the other side of the table from her.

If is was AQ in Iraq or one of the Hamas thugs in Israel they probably would’ve packed enough explosives to take out most of the other people in the room too.

Either way its chilling, disgusting and eye-opening.

Always Right on December 1, 2007 at 1:54 PM

Here’s a hint.

billy on December 1, 2007 at 1:55 PM

Seriously, do people here even read the posts before those knees start jerking?

hold on…we’re supposed to read? What’s next? You gonna unroll a map and makes us find Sri Lanka? We want Robots, not the SAT.

tlynch001 on December 1, 2007 at 2:06 PM

Not that it matters, I was just curious as to what organization that place was? Was it some government office? I wonder what the issue was that prompted this person to go in and seek out whomever and blow themselves up. Perhaps the intended target was the guy behind the desk?

Terrible. Cowardly.

(Right after the explosion, there was a dark object which I’m guessing to be the bomber’s head flying parabolically to the right side of the screen. Was it his/her head?)

Weebork on December 1, 2007 at 2:07 PM

Eh, sometimes I hate the internet.

Yes, it’s important to understand what extremes people will go to but it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Now, US military gun camera footage of dusting off terrorists? That’s AWESOME!

Drew on December 1, 2007 at 2:10 PM

Seriously, do people here even read the posts before those knees start jerking?

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 1:45 PM

I feel your pain Allahpundit.

Theworldisnotenough on December 1, 2007 at 2:14 PM

Er, no, it doesn’t. Did you read the post? The Tamil Tigers did this, not Muslims.

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Basically you’re right:

If anything, the LTTE (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) is more associated with Hinduism (Tamils being Hindus) than any other religion.

But:
Some international experts have suspected the existence of connections between the LTTE and other internationally designated terrorist organizations including al-Qaeda. These connections came under more detailed scrutiny as a result of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

The LTTE invented the modern suicide bomber and deployed it against political, military, and civilian targets. Islamic groups copied the LTTE by carrying out similar suicide attacks. But LTTE have no affiliation to any religious groups.

The LTTE continuously attacks shipping off the coast of Sri Lanka by blowing ships up or by acts of piracy. Attacks on the USS Cole off Yemen and piracy off the coast of Somalia, a stronghold for al-Qaeda followers, followed and possibly copied the LTTE tactics.

The LTTE attack on the World Trade Centre in Sri Lanka was followed by attacks by al-Qaeda on the World Trade Center in New York.

The LTTE’s use of a women’s section has being copied by al-Qaeda and Chechen terrorists, for example the “Black Widows” who played a role in the Moscow theater hostage crisis and have carried out suicide bombings.

Attacks on civilians in buses and trains in Sri Lanka are similar to the al-Qaeda attacks on public civilian transport during the July 2005 bombings in London.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_Tigers_of_Tamil_Eelam

My point is that all of these terrorists do not belong to any real religion. They are all facists who want to control everyone’s life and will murder and destroy to get and maintain that control.

WildBillK on December 1, 2007 at 2:17 PM

And this is precisely why Robert Spencer’s Myopic excoriation of Islam is not only wrong to do, but just plain ignorant of the larger issues.
It’s not always about Islam, or even any particular religion in general. It’s about isolation, Poverty, education, corruption, consolodation of power, greed.
While being motivated by Islam gives him an easy target in the context of the times today, he totally misses the larger issues by not putting his explorations of Islam in context against History or even current events. This is a good example of showing the extreme behavior people are capable of, without being able to blame it on the Q’uran.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:19 PM

My point is that all of these terrorists do not belong to any real religion.

Your earlier remark about the “religion of peace” striking again was actually a remark about how suicide bombing transcends religion?

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 2:19 PM

It’s not always about Islam, or even any particular religion in general.

He wouldn’t disagree. What he’d say, I imagine, it’s that it’s much more prevalent in Islam than any other religion for the simple reason that so much bellicosity is built into the Koran.

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 2:21 PM

The bomb was extremely weak. It didn’t even seriously damage the desk that was right in front of her. The only other person it killed probably caught the blast in the face, since he was in front of her and the blast would have been directed forward (the energy to the sides and rear mostly went into her own body). It would have been smart for them to include shrapnel, because it looks like if you managed to put more than 5 feet between you and her you’d have a good chance of surviving.

So she only ended up killing an aide. All that does is result in more security so the same trick can’t be used again, and the aide will be replaced. The target will be even more determined to act against the Tamils now.

kaltes on December 1, 2007 at 2:25 PM

Holy crap. She blew herself up; what a nut.

Jaibones on December 1, 2007 at 2:26 PM

You only get one round per gun. Stupid.

She’ll have an eternity in hell to contemplate her evil actions.

Mojave Mark on December 1, 2007 at 2:32 PM

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 2:21 PM

I agree, that probably is what he would say. My point however, is that it is too narrow a focus since the underlying issues go unresolved. Every religion has a certain amount of Bellicosity as part of it’s core values. And there is a certain amount of radicalism as well, Judaism and Catholicism are both good examples. Without a context, anyone of them could (can) be villified. That is why I feel an exploration of Islam without context, devalues the message.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Your earlier remark about the “religion of peace” striking again was actually a remark about how suicide bombing transcends religion?

WildBillK got caught in a knee-jerk. You knew it would happen, AP. I guess people are in a rush to post first that they don’t read the article, but then again, most people don’t know who or what the Tamil Tigers are, they don’t know that they are rebels in Sri Lanka. They are one of the few groups that use tactics like this who AREN’T Muslim, the exception to the rule.

And yes, Muslim fanatics dominate tactics like this for two reasons. (1) The Koran lends itself to interpretations that violence and terror are permissible means to spread the faith, and this is reinforced by a history replete with Muslim empires in the Middle East and Africa who spread the faith by conquest and the sword. (2) Being considerably weaker than their opponents, they resort to terrorism because it is the only means for them to get a bodycount and get attention. Attention, more than anything else, fuels their cause. When you look at the wars against Israel, the terrorism against Israel began after its Muslim neighbors realized that they could not defeat Israel in conventional warfare.

kaltes on December 1, 2007 at 2:35 PM

My point is that all of these terrorists do not belong to any real religion.

Your earlier remark about the “religion of peace” striking again was actually a remark about how suicide bombing transcends religion?

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 2:19 PM

May I say, “pwnd”

– The Cat

MirCat on December 1, 2007 at 2:45 PM

That is why I feel an exploration of Islam without context, devalues the message.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:35 PM

You’re sounding way too reasonable.
This us the internet, so you better compare somebody Hitler, pronto, or kindly log off.

billy on December 1, 2007 at 2:47 PM

This is the internet, so you better compare somebody to Hitler, pronto, or kindly log off.

billy on December 1, 2007 at 2:48 PM

The Tamil Tigers of peace? Is that dust on the desk the bombers body back to ashes? I thought the ending of that video is what would have happened to Howard Dean at the infamous Iowa rock’n roll speech. Of course by natural human combustible causes.

Drtuddle on December 1, 2007 at 2:53 PM

“The Bomb hidden in her bra”

It’s the ultimate FemBot.

GoodBoy on December 1, 2007 at 2:55 PM

Holy crap. She blew herself up; what a nut.

Jaibones on December 1, 2007 at 2:26 PM

You didn’t know this kinda thing was happening?

Wow…all I can say is Wow. how could anyone allow themselves to be talked into something like that?

doriangrey on December 1, 2007 at 1:39 PM

Put into the context of “she might be Hindi” she think’s she’ll be back. With reincarnation, it’s kinda like wrecking your car I’d guess.

– The Cat

MirCat on December 1, 2007 at 2:56 PM

billy on December 1, 2007 at 2:48 PM

LOL!
First I need someone to call me an Anti-semite again to get me all riled up…..

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 3:00 PM

it’s much more prevalent in Islam than any other religion for the simple reason that so much bellicosity is built into the Koran.

I don’t think it’s that and I don’t think it’s poverty. A century (or two or three) ago, “peaceful” Christianity was much more bellicose. It’s more to do with history. If you took the Iranian revolution out of the equation, “Islamic activists” might have been the more peaceful alternative to secular autocrats (Nasser, Arafat, Assad) rather than the more violent alternatives. The Koran doesn’t help, but I think history is more responsible than the Koran. After all, the Old Testament is pretty bellicose (and full of violent martyrs), and it’s not like the Jews are trying to violently take over the world. Even the political nuts of the world would concede that, if the Jews are trying to take over the world, it’s not by killing all their enemies in manners recommended in the Bible. And, from what I understand, it takes a very tortured reading of the Koran to justify suicide bombing.

calbear on December 1, 2007 at 3:01 PM

Wow. Insanity caught on tape. May God rest his soul.

Zorro on December 1, 2007 at 3:08 PM

My point however, is that it is too narrow a focus since the underlying issues go unresolved.

Underlying issues that drive one to terrorism? Which ones?

Every religion has a certain amount of Bellicosity as part of it’s core values. And there is a certain amount of radicalism as well, Judaism and Catholicism are both good examples. Without a context, anyone of them could (can) be villified. That is why I feel an exploration of Islam without context, devalues the message.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Moral equivalence anyone?

nailinmyeye on December 1, 2007 at 3:13 PM

She is part of an evil fanatical movement that needs to be defeated.

Yes, that’s true, but not an Islamic one.

Seriously, do people here even read the posts before those knees start jerking?

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 1:45 PM

In my defense, I wasn’t refering to Islamists, but those who employ terrorist tactics in general. And yes I did read the link, as my comment about whom she was really targeting would attest. But it’s nice to see that you are reading my comments ;-)

Mallard T. Drake on December 1, 2007 at 3:27 PM

So we’re arguing belicose religions based upon a clip that has nothing to do with religion? Isn’t it enough to condemn a group based upon their tactics without worrying to which God (or gods) they pray to.

I for one would have little or no problem with Islam if they would stop blowing themselves up, flying planes into crowded buildings, beating rape victims half to death, killing homosexuals etc. Sure it may be a fairly small subset that does the wet work but since they do it in the name of their religion I sure expect them to police their own house.

Sri Lanka and the LTTE are different and religion plays only a small part in the Tamil struggle. I know that there are some that link the LTTE to AQ but personally I find those links more of convenience and less of a ideological nature. They share the same checkout line at the global weapons mart and may also pipeline money thru the same people but from different “charity” fronts.

Or maybe the is a “religion” of terror violence these days.

Should a religion lose it’s status as such by failing to stop terrorism in its name? I wondered the same in Belfast and I wonder it decades later in the Middle East. More to the point, should a political struggle have any global support if they adopt these tactics.

Buzzy on December 1, 2007 at 3:31 PM

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Do you read Robert’s Blogging the Koran series? He builds more context into those than you can shake a stick at.

Bryan on December 1, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Moral equivalence anyone?

Yes.
In my mind, a Catholic terrorist, or a Hindu terrorist, are the moral equivalents of Muslim terrorist.

billy on December 1, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Wow…all I can say is Wow. how could anyone allow themselves to be talked into something like that?

doriangrey on December 1, 2007 at 1:39 PM

It is unfathomable.
One day when my daughter was about 8 she had a friend from down the street over for lunch.
The girl said flat out that she just could not wait to die so she could go to heaven.
It made me think, what in the hell kind of gerin oil her parents have been feeding her.

These people just really believe this shizzle.

I guess they think they are doing god’s work.

TheSitRep on December 1, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Do you read Robert’s Blogging the Koran series? He builds more context into those than you can shake a stick at.

Bryan on December 1, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Really?
I mean really, really?

billy on December 1, 2007 at 3:36 PM

It’s about isolation, Poverty, education, corruption, consolodation [sic] of power, greed.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:19 PM

Spare me the isolation, poverty, and education part. Do you know anything about Bin Laden or the 9/11 hijackers – just for starters?

Every religion has a certain amount of Bellicosity as part of it’s core values. And there is a certain amount of radicalism as well, Judaism and Catholicism are both good examples. Without a context, anyone of them could (can) be villified. That is why I feel an exploration of Islam without context, devalues the message.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:35 PM

The difference is that one religion, Islam, is stuck in 5th century barbarism, while Judaism and Christianity are not. Moreover, to say that violence is a “core value” of either religion is absurd.

Where do you get these theories of yours from?

As for exploring Islam without context, what do you mean exactly? How are we to “explore”, say, Sharia court rulings in Saudi Arabia that sentence a woman who was gang raped to 200 lashes? Are the people who hand out those sentences poor and uneducated, or is it the fault of their twisted ideology?

Buy Danish on December 1, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Wow! Was that her head fly out the door!?

hinduconservative on December 1, 2007 at 3:39 PM

Oops I did not read the article. My bad.

TheSitRep on December 1, 2007 at 3:41 PM

In my mind, a Catholic terrorist, or a Hindu terrorist, are the moral equivalents of Muslim terrorist.

billy on December 1, 2007 at 3:34 PM

What Catholic terrorists?

Esthier on December 1, 2007 at 3:54 PM

I wonder what the issue was that prompted this person to go in and seek out whomever and blow themselves up. Perhaps the intended target was the guy behind the desk?

Weebork on December 1, 2007 at 2:07 PM

Believe it or not, there is actually a thing called “link” that Allahpundit provided, which – if I understand this magic correctly – will take you to another thing called an “article.” It has words and stuff.

If you decipher the words and stuff, you’ll find the answers to your questions.

Since I already spent several hours journeying to that far away Land of Articles and Stuff and decoded the mysterious script there, I can tell you that – no – her victim wasn’t even her target.

He was just a senior citizen and civil servant doing what looks like a thankless job.

To learn more, there’s this thing called “Google.” If you don’t know about it, you can Google it.

Professor Blather on December 1, 2007 at 4:18 PM

Some of the decoded secret message I deciphered. Fortunately I have an extensive background in Hindu archeology and ancient pig Latin:

a female homicide bomber on a mission to kill a Sri Lankan Cabinet minister … In the footage, the bomber, wearing a yellow sari and a white shawl, calmly walked into a small waiting room at the Colombo offices of Social Services Minister Douglas Devananda on Wednesday, the day he sets aside to hear complaints from the public.

The woman, identified by police as 24-year-old Sujatha Vagawanam, sat down in front of a desk and answered questions from Devananda’s 72-year-old aide Steven Peiris. As the two spoke, Peiris was repeatedly interrupted by other officials sitting nearby or walking past.

After nearly a minute and a half, he began gesturing for her to sit down in a nearby cluster of white plastic chairs, apparently to await a security check. She then stood up facing Peiris, reached her right hand to her right shoulder to grab something and exploded.

Peiris and the bomber, both of whom were killed, flew backward. The others in the room scrambled in all directions, some falling over their chairs in their haste to escape as a cloud of smoke hung in the air.

“She thought she was getting caught, so she exploded her bomb,” said Devananda, the target of the attack.

Professor Blather on December 1, 2007 at 4:22 PM

Good write-up on the LTTE Tigers here from the Council on Foreign Relations. Interesting to note the possible training and logistical connections within the terrorist community at large:

In its early days, experts say, the LTTE trained with the Palestine Liberation Organization, and the group may still come into contact with other terrorist organizations through the illegal arms trade.

T J Green on December 1, 2007 at 4:25 PM

Talk about a woman putting her boobs in some guys face.

peacenprosperity on December 1, 2007 at 4:40 PM

billy and KMC1 believe in moral equivalency. Sorry, but it appears that a significant portion of Islam has taken the moral low-ground at this point in time. Go to the tape. Look around. You may want to continue to argue this fact but you will not convince anyone here otherwise.

I’ll concede one point to KMC1; education, power and poverty are all important factors to consider in these times. Middle Eastern culture is infirm. There is a reason why the powers that be in the Middle East don’t want Western influence permeating their culture. An educated populace is less inclined to resort to barbarism to achieve its goals. Really, education will solve most of the planet’s ills. An ignorant population with a self-aggrandizing opinion of itself is easily led. Islam is the vehicle that Middle Easter powers are using to assert themselves.

But dudes, you have got to stop being apologists for this current whacked out version of Islam!

KMC1, I have asked you twice over the past few days to tell us what your solution is. You criticize Mr. Spencer for his narrow focus on Islam and I criticize you for your blind spots. We go back and forth. So throw me a bone, man! What is your answer? What would you have western culture do in response to Islamic aggression? But first you have to acknowledge that aggression, no?

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 5:31 PM

hinduconservative on December 1, 2007 at 3:39 PM

Arrg. I think ur right.

meandchi on December 1, 2007 at 5:32 PM

Where do you get these theories of yours from?Buy Danish on December 1, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Sorry. It’s like in College. You’re expected to have prerequisites completed before taking the next class. You’ll need to go and do some reading of the Bible and the Petateuch before you start the next class.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 5:37 PM

And this is precisely why Robert Spencer’s Myopic excoriation of Islam is not only wrong to do, but just plain ignorant of the larger issues.
It’s not always about Islam, or even any particular religion in general. It’s about isolation, Poverty, education, corruption, consolodation of power, greed.
While being motivated by Islam gives him an easy target in the context of the times today, he totally misses the larger issues by not putting his explorations of Islam in context against History or even current events. This is a good example of showing the extreme behavior people are capable of, without being able to blame it on the Q’uran.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 2:19 PM

I can’t believe you’re serious! Yes this one incident was not by a jihadist muslim, fabulous! That does not mean what Robert Spencer does is wrong. Have you read any of his books? He puts everything in historical context and shows how muslims today are behaving exactly as they did when mohammed was still around to teach them and lead them to battle. The koran is intrinsically about converting, subjugation or killing, the Torah and the Bible are not.

4shoes on December 1, 2007 at 6:17 PM

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 5:31 PM

Wow. You have actually posted a very polite post to me. I am impressed, honestly.
Since you went out of your way to create civilized discourse, I’ll answer you this time.
What is your answer? What would you have western culture do in response to Islamic aggression? But first you have to acknowledge that aggression, no?

Firstly, I absolutely believe we need to react strongly to any sort of intimidation and/or violence. It’s totally unacceptable for any group to conduct terrorist activities, in particular under the guise of following religion or God.
You would find I am very conservative in my reactions to any sort of violence or intimidation, to the extent that I would probably make George Bush look like a Green Peace activist by way of comparison.

On the other hand, I don’t agree with making a war a religious one. And not just for the fact that you cannot defeat ideology through force. It’s never been done, and in fact, when studying History, there are numerous examples of force only strengthening the resolve of people to practice and/or follow their outlawed beliefs. Look at Christianity as just one example. The way Robert Spencer is approaching the situation is to take Islam out of context, examine its doctrines, and offer us his opinion of what it means. And I happen to believe his interpretation, most of the time. I personally believe (and I don’t think I’m alone on this) that Islam is completely backwards, cruel and incestuous. The problem I have with it is that I could do exactly the same thing with Christianity, Judaism and many other religions. I believe you could also do the same thing with political systems, i.e. Fascism, Socialism, Communism, Capitalism, etc. Each individually has its strengths and its weaknesses. Or in different terms, each has its own form of barbarity. And each brings with it its own way of life, its own power structure and form of rule. I could examine the political structure of the United States, and without a context, make it sound like the most evil concoction on the planet (a la Chavez). I think people such as Robert Spencer, while possibly well-intentioned, have the potential to create more of a chasm, and produce more of a wide-spread and virulent conflict through trying to manipulate the current climate of fear and anger into a religious conflict. If anything, at the current time, I believe we should be working to downplay religion’s role in politics and law. There isn’t anyway we can truly progress as a species, if we’re going to be fighting over made up explanations of where we come from, or how we get here, anymore than we can by fighting over what type of political structure countries have.

I’m not sure what type of aggression you’re speaking of, when you mention Islamic aggression? Do you mean wanting us to respect their culture (s) when they’ve legally emigrated to a Western country? As far as I know, we’re the only ones who’ve actually invaded an Middle Eastern Country lately. The rantings of Mahmoud Imaybemad don’t count as true aggression (yet).

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 6:23 PM

Oops. Stupid blockquotes. Ohhhh Mighty Allah(pundit) please grant me the ability to go back and edit my posts…….

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 6:24 PM

4shoes on December 1, 2007 at 6:17 PM

Um. Are you sure about that? Ever hear of a missionary?

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 6:25 PM

billy and KMC1 believe in moral equivalency.
dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 5:31 PM

Speaking only for myself, yes I most certainy do…when actions are morally eqivalent.
A terrorist who blows up a crowded pub in N. Ireland is the moral eqivalent of a terrorist who blows up a crowded market in Baghdad. The fact that one is Catholic and the other is Muslim does not lessen the evil of either act.
Our leftwing friends have confused the issue pretty thoroughly by seeing moral equivalency where there is none, e.g. between the inadvertant killing of civilians by Marines at Haditha and the intentional killing of civilians by al-Qaeda at…well damn everywhere.

billy on December 1, 2007 at 7:20 PM

Uh yeah! A missionary goes and spreads the word of God, have you ever heard of a missionary wielding a sword and using that to gain converts?

4shoes on December 1, 2007 at 7:22 PM

i had more fun watching the head explode on the pizza bomber.

madmonkphotog on December 1, 2007 at 7:23 PM

KMC1 on December 1, 2007
Dont you have a class this evening? Or a liberal BDS planning session tonight? Maybe an atheist writing group? Perhaps some future debate questions and plant fertilizer to spread?
.
Or are you just lost…. again?

shooter on December 1, 2007 at 7:34 PM

Sorry. It’s like in College. Blah Blah Blah…
KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 5:37 PM

It sounds like you have had the benefit of some of the the 100 Worst ProFessors in liberal academia.

It’s pointless to argue with you and your moral relativism. You have been brainwashed by Leftists and I am not in the re-programming business. If I were I would demand a hefty fee to take on your case.

Buy Danish on December 1, 2007 at 8:31 PM

billy on December 1, 2007 at 7:20 PM

Very well said.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 8:46 PM

4shoes on December 1, 2007 at 7:22 PM

You really need to study more History. Seriously. May I suggest any number of places, how about we’ll start with India during the period of English Colonialism? (Still ongoing to this day)
The other things you are bringing to light, are 1) the misplaced inherent belief in Christian moral supremacy – you are starting from a position of supposed moral correctness yet you obviously don’t really know anything about the subject. I don’t blame you personally as it is symptomatic of the Catholic Church’s (and each subsequent society who has been converted) iron fisted rule. And 2) you’re allowing yourself to see things as religion vs religion which is exactly my point in the first place.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 9:05 PM

shooter on December 1, 2007 at 7:34 PM

Buy Danish on December 1, 2007 at 8:31 PM

LOL! You ignorant types really crack me up.
What? No accusations of anti-semitism yet? No claims of racism yet? You guys are letting me down. The best you can do is assign my points to the “teachings of the Left”? LOL.. You sound like the Ancient Jews trying to explain a shooting star and claiming we need to drink the blood of a Christian or something….Throughout History, whenever humans have stumbled upon something they can’t understand, they’ve started making up things to explain it away. LOL! Oh well, I’m off to my Liberal Arts class now.

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 9:29 PM

billy,

The violence in Ireland is over. Done. Move on man, they have. I guess we should examine how that came about? Can we apply there success to the CURRENT situation?

I repeat: The troubles in Ireland are over! What do we do now, billy? Talking about what is going on right. this. moment.

I’m just thinking the moral climate is elevated a bit on the Emerald Island. The Middle East/Arab culture is looking pretty grim by comprasion. Not equilvelent. One of these things is better than the other.

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 9:33 PM

KMC1,

Sit in the front row.

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 9:36 PM

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 9:33 PM

I’m not talking about “things.” I’m talking about people who blow up random civilians in order to create a climate of terror in order to further a political and/or religious cause.
Mostly, these people are called “terrorists.”
I have never said that Ireland is like the Mid East, or that Sri Lanka is like the Mid East, only that they have had, or currently have “terrorists.”
And my point, as innocous as it is, is this:
Terrorists are bad.
I can’t quite see what is so controversial about this position, so I must lack the finely tuned moral compass of
the wise “dingbat.”

billy on December 1, 2007 at 9:50 PM

How many Virgin do the women get ?

Oh I forgot she’s not muslum.

What is the big gift was she expecting for that cowardly act.
Unbelievable….

Texyank on December 1, 2007 at 9:50 PM

And this is precisely why Robert Spencer’s Myopic excoriation of Islam is not only wrong to do, but just plain ignorant of the larger issues.

The quote above contains a logical error. The larger issue is how do live together on a shared Earth, and there are no easy answers to that. And, yes, some people will think it appropriate to resort to terrorism or to milder sabotage. They will commit such acts because they will think it appropriate relative to some set of beliefs: be those beliefs a religion, a racial ideology, a political doctrine, or an environmental belief. That people will do acts generally discouraged by governments for just about any reason does not imply that Islam does not encourage terrorism. (I know I used the word “not” twice in the last sentence. It was necessary as I’m being logically precise.)

Robert Spence is right about religion for reason that most of us aren’t going to want to admit. We wish to pretend everything is just dandy and that there are no reasons whatsoever that we would sanction using extreme measures. However, we are obviously wrong as we rightly admire the resistance to the Nazis and the Communists. I’m an environmentalist and there are some acts of ecotage (eco-sabotage) that I would refuse to condemn. (There is no reason for eco-terrorism, and I’m not sure that there has ever been a single act of eco-terrorism–that is, an act for an environmental cause that was intended to terrorize a population. There has been animal rights terrorism.) Clearly, we should demand a very high bar be set before committing an act of sabotage, terrorism, or other resistance to the state. The trouble with Islam and anarchism is that they set the bar very low. In fact, Islam encourages one to cross that line for the most trivial of reasons, as the various muslim riots over the last ten years have shown.

thuja on December 1, 2007 at 9:59 PM

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 9:33 PM

Oh, so now Ireland is ancient History huh? The depth of your ignorance is beginning to show……
I’ll just ask you a simple question then. If the violence in Ireland is really over, why don’t we hear about news from Ireland? Ireland has the second highest per capita income of any country in the EU next to Luxembourg, and fourth highest in the world based on measurements of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per capita. 12% of America’s population is of Irish descent.
Yet, we hear only about news from North Ireland… Hmmm… I wonder why that is…..

KMC1 on December 1, 2007 at 10:03 PM

You really need to study more History.

I probably do, no more than you though!

India during the period of English Colonialism? (Still ongoing to this day)

What does this have to do with anything we’ve been discussing?

1) the misplaced inherent belief in Christian moral supremacy – you are starting from a position of supposed moral correctness yet you obviously don’t really know anything about the subject. I don’t blame you personally as it is symptomatic of the Catholic Church’s (and each subsequent society who has been converted) iron fisted rule.

Misplaced belief? I call myself an agnostic, on a good day. Tell me, what do you think of all the murdering and blowing up of innocent people in public places? Do you deny that most of it has been done my muslims? Christians iron fisted?… Maybe some, are they still on a quest to this day to convert the world by subjugation or the sword? I think you can lay that one at the feet of the muslims.

2) you’re allowing yourself to see things as religion vs religion which is exactly my point in the first place.

What exactly was your point in the first place?

4shoes on December 1, 2007 at 10:18 PM

Sorry there KMC1,

I was still digesting your last post.

By aggression I mean the kind of aggression we see in this video clip. How can we stop irate Muslims from killing everyone who ticks ‘em off? That’s my question.

Your answer as I’ve read it thus far is, “react strongly to any sort of intimidation and/or violence.” And I ask “but how exactly?”

“No religious war.” You say. Ok. Sounds good to me.

You’ve lost me when you talk about “the fact that you cannot defeat ideology through force.” So, react strongly but no force? Never? Anyway, many religions/cultures have been overwhelmed by others and have just been flat out obliterated or absorbed. That’s a Fact.

You would also “downplay religion’s role in politics and law.” Good luck with that one.

Anyway… doesn’t sound like you’ve got much to work with here.

What would I do? I would read up on the main character. Try to understand what makes him tick. I would place no limits on myself or my ability to defend myself. That’s all

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 10:35 PM

KMC1,

Maybe I am ignorant, but I don’t understand your last post. Are you saying the violence continues in Northern Ireland? I’d suggest you take a trip and see for yourself. Why some of the “bloddy prods” turned in weapons just last week!

And what’s all that about GDP and stuff? You’re just rambling on now aren’t you. No point.

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 10:50 PM

This is what CAIR is all about. This muslim woman really CAIRed about the people she killed right before she splattered her guts all over the room.

Muslims in action. Did you see this Doogie Hooper? Did that blast knock your skull cap off?

Muslims in action. Coming soon, to a Bank of Amigos near you.

BobJones-77 on December 2, 2007 at 12:44 AM

dingbat on December 1, 2007 at 10:35 PM

The problem as I see it is twofold.
1) you are not able to comprehend complex thought.
2) It’s obvious that even when you are able to understand a point, you refute it out of hand because it’s not what you believe.

By aggression I mean the kind of aggression we see in this video clip. How can we stop irate Muslims from killing everyone who ticks ‘em off? That’s my question.

The point that I’ve been trying to hammer home in this thread, which you just cannot seem to absorb, is that it’s not “muslims killing” that we need to focus on. It’s PEOPLE killing. Doesn’t matter which religion or motivation. The people in this clip WERE NOT MUSLIM yet still blew themsleves up.
The Israelis just killed thousands of innocent civilians a couple months ago. Their “justification”? The kidnapping of two soldiers. They killed more people and did more economic damage (to a much more fragile country) than what happened in 9/11, yet people don’t want to talk about it because it’s the Jews and they did it to Muslims. How do we stop PEOPLE from killing eachother is the question.

Your answer as I’ve read it thus far is, “react strongly to any sort of intimidation and/or violence.” And I ask “but how exactly?”

This is a multilayered answer that I know you can’t keep up with. It runs the gamut from out and out “Nuke-U-ler” war, to doing nothing at all. (try to wrap your head around that last one – betcha can’t) More of a threat to our way of life in my opinion, is Political Correctness and the staggering crime statistics in America.

Anyway, many religions/cultures have been overwhelmed by others and have just been flat out obliterated or absorbed. That’s a Fact.

Can you name any religion that has been defeated through force and force alone?

What would I do? I would read up on the main character. Try to understand what makes him tick. I would place no limits on myself or my ability to defend myself. That’s all

Again, you show your predilection for believing it’s all about Islam and Muslims. There’s really no sense going back and forth with you since you just can’t accept otherwise.

Maybe I am ignorant, but I don’t understand your last post

I agree. You’ll need to do your own research if you think it’s actually “over” in terms strictly referencing violence. There have been killings related to The Troubles even as late as last year. And I’m not going to try to explain to you the political message behind the post you’re questioning since I know you a) won’t get it and b) won’t get it.

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 12:54 AM

KMC1,

Now your just being nasty. Seems like we don’t meet on one key issue and that would be (drumroll) I think radical Islam is insane, you…hell, I don’t know, your all over the map. focus.

dingbat on December 2, 2007 at 1:21 AM

/me pats KMC1 on the head. I think it’s so cute when liberals tell you to look something up, do your homework, etc. because they don’t have any facts to back there rantings up with.

– The Cat

MirCat on December 2, 2007 at 1:24 AM

KMC1,

Damn, you were right about the clip. Tamil Tigers.

dingbat on December 2, 2007 at 1:44 AM

BobJones-77 on December 2, 2007 at 12:44 AM

You do realize this woman is a member of the Tamil Tigers and therefore most likely a Hindu and not a Muslim?
You didn’t read the linked article did you?
Nor any of the comments?
You saw the video and just felt compelled to share with the world a knee-jerk reaction, right?
I hate to say this, but you’re a lout.
Your dislike of terrorism is dwarfed by your need to feel superior to another class of people.
We see this on the left and call it BDS-Bush derangement syndrome.
You have IDS-Islamic Derangement syndrome.

billy on December 2, 2007 at 1:47 AM

Did anyone else notice that that was a compact shape charge she used. That wasn’t amateur hour. Who-ever made that vest knew what they were doing. It was a directional blast that had a very narrow blast radius.

Egfrow on December 2, 2007 at 1:56 AM

That is heady stuff.

TheSitRep on December 2, 2007 at 2:09 AM

billy,

What you said applies to me as well. I am an ignorant lout. I read the article, read Tamil Tigers, and thought Muslim bomber an hour later. But come on, you gotta admit, they’re always in the news. Turns out the founder of the TT is a lapsed methodist, if you can believe wikipedia. What the hell!

dingbat on December 2, 2007 at 2:11 AM

KMC1

Your comments regarding Mr. Spencer’s opposition to your stated beliefs, as extracted from your rants below indicate you do not listen carefully to the words

Robert Spencer’s Myopic excoriation of Islam is not only wrong to do, but just plain ignorant of the larger issues. I think people such as Robert Spencer, while possibly well-intentioned, have the potential to create more of a chasm, and produce more of a wide-spread and virulent conflict through trying to manipulate the current climate of fear and anger into a religious conflict.

and your discounting of others in opposition to your diatribe clearly indicate you have not finished your education yet.

LOL! You ignorant types really crack me up.
What? No accusations of anti-semitism yet? No claims of racism yet? You guys are letting me down
.. You sound like the Ancient Jews trying to explain a shooting star and claiming we need to drink the blood of a Christian or something….Throughout History, whenever humans have stumbled upon something they can’t understand, they’ve started making up things to explain it away.

Your arrogance indicates you need to couch your opposition to ideas you do not agree until you have fully digested the information presented.

A diploma is just part of the interview process for entry into the mainstream and based on your postings you have a way to go before being accepted to join the rest of U.S.

MSGTAS on December 2, 2007 at 9:40 AM

Yes, Catholic terrorists and Hindu terrorists are just as bad *individually* as a muslim terrorist (although considerably less effective) but that’s like when a white guy starts naming his favorite white basketball players – “Well, there’s Larry Bird … and, um, what’s that other dude’s name?”

The moral equivalency card doesn’t work here.

Tony737 on December 2, 2007 at 9:44 AM

The TT thugs must have told this woman that detonating the bomb was her best chance to get ahead in this world.

har har…

and yes that was her bun-haired head flying through the air and out the door. And that was her decapitated, headless body lying on the ground amidst the smoke.

Just to bring this discussion back to, you know, some kind of sense of… what the heck actually happened.

Always Right on December 2, 2007 at 11:00 AM

MirCat on December 2, 2007 at 1:24 AM

Name one, Liar.

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 11:11 AM

dingbat on December 2, 2007 at 1:21 AM

Maybe you should try to avoid issues that have a more complex theme than say; Islam Bad, Everything else good. It would have if you can accept facts you may not agree with too.

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 11:12 AM

dingbat on December 2, 2007 at 2:11 AM

Well, at least you’re being honest.
Of course this is exactly what I’ve been telling you is your problem.

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 11:13 AM

MSGTAS on December 2, 2007 at 9:40 AM

So you debate facts and opinion with…. drum roll puhlease… and Ad-Hominem attack.

Well, I must say, you certainly are original aren’t you?

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 11:15 AM

*an*
Dammit, we need an edit function.

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 11:15 AM

Tony737 on December 2, 2007 at 9:44 AM

And he wasn’t “white enough”. /sarc

KMC1 on December 2, 2007 at 11:17 AM

Yes, that’s true, but not an Islamic one.

Seriously, do people here even read the posts before those knees start jerking?

Allahpundit on December 1, 2007 at 1:45 PM

They probably don’t know who the Tamil Tigers are. So they probably think they are Muslims and not Hindu. Then again, I don’t think any other world religion outside of Christianity has a solid moral foundation. Hinduism is as messed up as Islam is…

Tim Burton on December 2, 2007 at 5:56 PM

KMC1: “It’s not always about Islam, or even any particular religion in general. It’s about isolation, Poverty, education, corruption, consolodation of power, greed.”

Excellent point, KMC1. We should never forget about the Amish suicide bombers.

Tantor on December 3, 2007 at 2:22 AM

KMC 1

Your postings continue to wander and when confronted all you can do is babble and try to humiliate and insult.

Also, learn to spell and understand that the words you use have meaning. Your misuse indicates you have a lot of life yet to experience to become original.

Stop regurgitating the blather feed to you without question because that makes you a blind follower.

Only until you have first hand experience with the issues you rail against are you able to claim any expertise in the subject matter.

MSGTAS on December 3, 2007 at 8:56 AM

Tantor on December 3, 2007 at 2:22 AM

They are not impoverished, (spiritually or financially), nor are they uneducated, and they as far as I know, are not power hungry. But otherwise great points?

KMC1 on December 3, 2007 at 10:23 AM

MSGTAS on December 3, 2007 at 8:56 AM

Your postings continue to wander and when confronted all you can do is babble and try to humiliate and insult.

Example please?

Also, learn to spell and understand that the words you use have meaning. Your misuse indicates you have a lot of life yet to experience to become original.

Could you please provide an example?

Stop regurgitating the blather feed to you without question because that makes you a blind follower.

Would it be possible for you to provide any sort of example?

Only until you have first hand experience with the issues you rail against are you able to claim any expertise in the subject matter.

Reeeally? Hmmm could you provide an example?

all you can do is babble and try to humiliate and insult.MSGTAS on December 3, 2007 at 8:56 AM

How would you like your irony served? Hot or ice cold?

KMC1 on December 3, 2007 at 10:28 AM