You can take the man out of the KGB, but you can’t take the KGB out of the man.

Yup.

And I’ll bet that the program was ignored once El Clintone got in office and started slashing the military.

I don’t have figures at hand, but Defense Secretary Perry touted the program as something they did right, so it certainly wasn’t ignored. Clinton messed up a lot, but not everything.

Anybody else think Putin is beginning to look more and more like Grand Moff Tarkin?

Actually, he looks and acts more like someone out of central casting to be the next villain in a James Bond film.

Lone Star on November 27, 2007 at 2:08 PM

I grow tired of asking this, so it will be the last time; where is the secret political opposition base?

Putin
Tarkin

I don’t like Putin’s foreign policy what so ever. But domestically, at least on the economic front, IMHO, he’s doing alright.
AlexB on November 27, 2007 at 11:14 AM

Dictators often improve economic conditions, which increases support for them. Mussolini famously made the trains run on time.

Under Hitler, Germany, which had had abysmal levels of poverty in the late twenties, upgraded its infrastructure and expanded its military capabilities to a level where, having occupied Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria, the Benelux, Denmark and France, it posed a serious threat to the UK less than a decade after the Nazi takeover.

Stalin improved productivity by having people shot as saboteurs for being late to work. When he took power, building a nationwide electric grid was a distant goal. When he checked out thirty-one years later, the major Soviet cities had modern subway systems, the country had thermonuclear weapons and they were less than a decade away from putting a man in space.

Even today, countries like China and Singapore are able to provide vastly improved living conditions under the leadership of competent but unelected leaders.

Me, I prefer our pluralistic democracy with the economic ups and downs, occasional recessions and subprime implosions.

Kasparov was convicted of organizing an unsanctioned procession, chanting anti-government slogans, and resisting arrest Saturday, eight days before parliamentary elections.
Chanting anti-government slogans is a crime?

A favorite of Stalinist times – “Anti-Soviet agitation” – which, of course, could mean anything. But, when used, it only meant one thing – the Gulag. I always feared that, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia would again descend into dictatorship and communism. I fear that the Gulag was only on a hiatus.

[Frozen Tex on November 27, 2007 at 11:32 AM]

It would be more accurate to compare them to a nation of fleas most of whom have not jumped for so long that when the jar top was removed, even if they knew they could jump, they didn’t know how to do it. So, for the most part they still needed to be taken care of than a semblance of democracy would allow.

I kind of like the cowboys metaphor though. The many who did jump out were cowboys, all independently inclined. But too few wore white hats. Those white hatted ones are the cowboys Sydney Carton is inferring — the ones also having a respect for others’ freedom and the willingness to defend it. If you look back at who our greatest “cowboys” were, it was not their own independence we admired but their willingness to put their lives and with it the possible loss of it, thus that independence, too, on the line for others.

These two make up the lifespring of our nation and as a result the US exists for its people. This, it seems to me, is just the reverse for Russia, where there its people exist for their nation. This is not to say there aren’t white hatted cowboys in Russia, but their existence and the ideas that fuel this dual concept are insufficient to sustain it in the whole of Russia, as Russia, currently.

Personally, I think it is pretty clear by now whether Putin is trying to save Russia or its people but there is still some small room for doubt despite his clear lack of finesse. The latter choice is his only hope to save the former and if it is, in fact, the latter then I don’t envy his task of rowing against the great tide of Russian history to prove it to his people.

They do not have a “cowboy” culture of independence

A nation of peasants with an inferiority complex, yearning for an iron fist to tell them what to do, while making them stronger than everyone else.

Cold war round two coming up.

On the one hand he is, and has been, doing wonderful things for Russia. Stabilizing Yeltsin’s mess and improving economic prosperity is not easy in that country. One of my relatives knows him personally, and says that Putin is doing the right things.

But on the other hand there is clearly some mafia-type criminality going on. I suspect it isn’t entirely Putin’s doing. The people in the different government apparatuses might take it upon themselves, with out anyone’s permission, to “defend Russia” against “Amerikanskiye agenti”. You could say it’s a “organizational culture” problem.

I don’t like Putin’s foreign policy what so ever. But domestically, at least on the economic front, IMHO, he’s doing alright.

Crikes, we’re stupid.

Why is it that people will condemn Putin for his actions, but give Musharraf a pass for his? When ‘Mushy’ ‘goes after terrorists’, people here say, ‘aren’t we lucky he is on our side’. When Putin goes after terrorists in Chechnya it’s, ‘I can’t believe he’s acting like such a thug’.

The double standard is pretty ridiculous, and I don’t think people even recognize that they are doing it.

ThackerAgency on November 27, 2007 at 9:56 AM

I haven’t seen a whole lot of complaining here about Putin’s actions in Chechnya. It’s usually been about his crushing of dissent, offing opposition journalists, and the like.

He’s a thug and an enemy of Democracy, and this is now evident. And for all of our handwringing for the wonderful Russian people, they have consistently supported politicians that we would have tried and hanged. Entelechy has it exactly right — we get the government we deserve.

Why is it that people will condemn Putin for his actions, but give Musharraf a pass for his? When ‘Mushy’ ‘goes after terrorists’, people here say, ‘aren’t we lucky he is on our side’. When Putin goes after terrorists in Chechnya it’s, ‘I can’t believe he’s acting like such a thug’.

The double standard is pretty ridiculous, and I don’t think people even recognize that they are doing it.

I’ll bet we did. I’m not sure what more Clinton could have done with such a huge, proud, militarized country.

That link you pointed to was about a Congressional plan during Bush Sr. Something as massive and important as this needs leadership from the top, not Congress. And I’ll bet that the program was ignored once El Clintone got in office and started slashing the military.

We needed leadership, we got politics. Putin is doing what he has to because nobody else is interested in helping his country (other than Iran – who they sell nuclear material to – and China).

Why is it that Russia has become friends with China during that time and not us? Why couldn’t we have offered them what China did and more? China is more of a threat to Russia than the USA is. They are closer and they have a larger population with a bigger army. . .and nuclear weapons.

He’s been escalating his military probes of northern Europe, too.

Gary Kasparov, a chess champion who’s of Armenian-Jewish descent, was arrested at an anti-Putin rally in Russia and assaulted by police (via Gateway Pundit and Hot Air Headlines):…

But Russia and the USA are two very large and very brittle entities. If they collide it will be China and Islam that will pick up the pieces. On the other hand, if Russia and the USA were to agree to disagree on the democracy thing, mutual self-interest might make for a beautiful friendship.

Energy. Wealth. Overwhelming military superiority. A belt of security and prosperity around the entire Northern hemisphere. Washington-Moscow Inc could have it all, if only they’d shut up and think.

But I have every confidence that our stupidity and their blind resentment will prevail.

When Putin came into office, Russia had been broke, atrophied, and demoralized for years. Putin kissed Bush’s a$$ early in his presidency because he had no other option. And I believe Bush so desperately wanted us to be “best friends” with Russia that he ignored Vladimr’s past.

Fast forward seven years: oil prices are at historic highs, Russia is exporting more oil onto the world market than ever before, and Bush is politically weakened by the Long War. Putin sees that stoking the fires of nationalism is a means to an end, so he starts feeding the homeboys full of trash talk against the USA, all while he continues to suck up to the USA and Europe for membership in the G-8.

Nationalism on the home front secures Putin’s political future just as much as his stoking trouble in the Middle East secures Russia’s financial future. The Russian Bear is feeling its oats and wants its place back at the center of the world stage.

Finally, Russia’s youth are like China’s youth: both have been bought off by promises of wealth to be sought. As long as the youth are relatively well off, they will not challenge the system, until it threatens them.

Russia was a democracy for about five minutes after Yeltsin challenged the tanks in 1991. Then it went from a democracy to being ruled by the Russian Mafia. When Putin came along, all he did was tell the mafia in so many words, “you don’t have to love me, you just have to fall in line…”