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Useful idiot still as useful as ever

posted at 2:18 pm on November 25, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Tender cutlets of halal meat served fresh for a British Muslim magazine. My favorite story involving Rowan Williams is this one, wherein one man who’s done much for atheism engages another:

June 10, Washington, D.C.: It’s been weeks on the road, and after a grueling swing through Canada I am finally home. I tell the wife and daughter that’s it: no more god talk for a bit—let’s get lunch at the fashionable Café Milano, in Georgetown. Signor Franco leads us to a nice table outside and I sit down—right next to the Archbishop of Canterbury. O.K., then, this must have been meant to happen. I lean over. “My Lord Archbishop? It’s Christopher Hitchens.” “Good gracious,” he responds, gesturing at his guest—”we were just discussing your book.”

The archbishop’s church is about to undergo a schism. More than 10 conservative congregations in Virginia have seceded, along with some African bishops, to protest the ordination of a gay bishop in New England. I ask him how it’s going. “Well”—he lowers his voice—”I’m rather trying to keep my head down.” Well, why, in that case, I want to reply, did you seek a job that supposedly involves moral leadership?

The answer to Hitch’s question is so that he could go round issuing pronunciamentos about the wickedness of western powers and their eternally innocent Middle Eastern victims. LGF has been keeping tabs on him for years, starting with his left-of-left declaration that the invasion of Afghanistan was “morally tainted” to, well, this. Read through the interview at the ToL link and you’ll find him returning to some of his favorite themes: blaming the United States for atrocities committed against Christians by Muslims (“beleaguered Christian communities in Iraq, who are now suffering because their neighbours have turned against them, identifying them with the West”), recoiling at Israel’s security fence more so than at the degenerates it helps to keep out (“Whatever justification given for the existence of the wall, the human cost is colossal”), and only the most timid, halting criticisms of Islamic political culture by comparison (“the Muslim world should be ready to acknowledge that their ‘present political solutions aren’t always very impressive’”) (“Our modern western definition of humanity is clearly not working very well”).

Exit question: When he cites the British imperial example of “tak[ing] over a territory and then pour[ing] energy and resources into administering it and normalising it,” he does realize that’s what we’re trying to do in Iraq, yes?


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I don’t know anything about god.
Here’s a guy who thinks he does.
I’m humbled.

Stephen M on November 25, 2007 at 2:27 PM

I’m humbled.

I’m outraged.

georgej on November 25, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Stephen M that was an amazing video.

bj1126 on November 25, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Please stay on topic.

Allahpundit on November 25, 2007 at 2:46 PM

And when the Pope appointed some new cardinal yesterday, he appealed for an end to the war in Iraq. I fear Christianity has been a fifth column to Western Civilization. It’s one of many reasons I wouldn’t trust a Mike Huckabee presidency.
Even his conservative Protestantism is tainted with this sort of nonsense.

thuja on November 25, 2007 at 2:53 PM

Williams is a disaster for our Church. Pro-priestess. Pro-homosexual. He has done nothing but hem and haw in order to be popular with everyone, rather than actually doing what is right.

He is like Bill Clinton meets the Pope, which is a very horrible mixture, indeed.

God save the true believers within His Church.

Damian G. on November 25, 2007 at 2:54 PM

Well, why, in that case, I want to reply, did you seek a job that supposedly involves moral leadership?

Ahhh, Hitch. If only he actually asked the Archbishop that question!

Grantman on November 25, 2007 at 2:55 PM

thuja on November 25, 2007 at 2:53 PM

I wasn’t as offended as some others by the Pope’s comments. What’s wrong with praying for peace? And Benedict has said that a Roman Catholic is free to disagree with the Pontiff on the issue of just war.

Damian G. on November 25, 2007 at 2:56 PM

From a commenter at the webstie

It may also explain why the churches and cathedrals of Europe stand empty.

James Callahan, Los Angeles, California

Duh. As I understand it non-denominational churches are booming in Europe while the denominations are dying. That leaves alot of room for people in authority to have all sorts of opinions.

Theworldisnotenough on November 25, 2007 at 2:57 PM

thuja on November 25, 2007 at 2:53 PM

Of course, the Pope never said the U.S. was the “bad guy” or the “imperialist.” In fact, all the Pope did was pray for peace. Don’t you want the war to end, too? If I didn’t know better, I’d say you like war (although given some remarks by hotair commentators regarding Pope Urban II– they who otherwise can’t stand the Church, but because he called for a crusade against Muslims, he’s OK–this doesn’t surprise me).

Rowan Williams is a smart theologian, but of course this sort of histrionics should be dismissed. And of couse Allah is entitled to post whoever he likes, but I couldn’t give a rat’s behind about what Hitchens has to say on the matter.

WillBarrett on November 25, 2007 at 3:08 PM

And when the Pope appointed some new cardinal yesterday, he appealed for an end to the war in Iraq.

No he didn’t he appealed for reconciliation within Iraq. That is what we all want. Here is what he said translated via Babelfish from the Italian on the Vatican’s website:

…to the beloveds Christian communities that find themselves in Iraq? These our siblings and sisters in the faith experience in the own meat the dramatic consequences of a persistent conflict and live to the present in one never fragile how much and delicate political situation. Calling to enter in the College of the Cardinals the Patriarch of the Chaldea Church I have meant to express in concrete way my spiritual vicinity and my affection for those populations. We want entirety, beloveds and venera you Siblings, to reaffirm the solidarity of the entire Church towards the Christians of that mistress earth and to invite to invocare from merciful God, for all the been involved people, the advent of the foretold reconciliation and the peace.

bnelson44 on November 25, 2007 at 3:10 PM

Well, why, in that case, I want to reply, did you seek a job that supposedly involves moral leadership?

Who hired the bum?

JiangxiDad on November 25, 2007 at 3:17 PM

Who hired the bum?

JiangxiDad on November 25, 2007 at 3:17 PM

Here’s a brief guide to how the person is chosen:

The retiring Archbishop of Canterbury tells the Queen they want to retire.

The Queen accepts the resignation.

The Crown Appointments Commission begins to oversee the selection of a new Archbishop of Canterbury.

The Commission chooses two names and sends them to the Prime Minister for approval.

If the Prime Minister likes the choices, one name is sent to the Queen.

The Queen has the final say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/uk/archbishop_of_canterbury/newsid_2804000/2804849.stm

bnelson44 on November 25, 2007 at 3:27 PM

bnelson44 on November 25, 2007 at 3:27 PM

Tks. bnelson. I was being snotty. I just meant that since she is responsible– why waste time talking about the bum. Obviously, the problem lies elsewhere.

JiangxiDad on November 25, 2007 at 3:46 PM

Exit question: When he cites the British imperial example of “tak[ing] over a territory and then pour[ing] energy and resources into administering it and normalising it,” he does realize that’s what we’re trying to do in Iraq, yes?

No. He seems to think that the British just turned up in India, conquered it, and instantly imposed peace and the rule of law. What actually happened is that the British had to put up with decades of rebellions and factional fighting before ‘British India’ as we think of it was created. In fact, those rebellions and factional infighting (although greatly reduced) never completely ended, and continued beyond independence to this very day.

jic on November 25, 2007 at 3:50 PM

Rowan Williams and the C of E are a joke.

RobCon on November 25, 2007 at 4:08 PM

Damian G. and WillBarrett question whether I’m being fair in comparing the Pope to Archbishop Williams. I strongly have the impression that the Pope has urged passivity in the face of Islamic evil, but I don’t recall the exact statements. Sadly, I don’t have time to do research today, but I will look into this issue in the next few days. Apologies if this is not a satisfactory read.

thuja on November 25, 2007 at 4:08 PM

So in other words, the Archbishop of Canterbury, is actually the Village Idiot.

Kini on November 25, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Everywhere I speak, I find that the faithful go to church for a mixture of reasons, from social to charitable to ethnic, and take their beliefs à la carte or cafeteria-style, choosing the bits they like and discarding the rest.

Very, very true.

he does realize that’s what we’re trying to do in Iraq, yes?

I think its just immaterial to an extremely self serving church what governments attempt, whatever the long term benefit the ideals of which are.

Speakup on November 25, 2007 at 4:17 PM

The COE has allowed the Episcopal Church in the USA to apostate itself, and just about take the entire Communion down with it. Years ago, Christian missionaries took the Word back to Africa and now that is where leadership is coming from. The Liberal intelligentsia within the American church are howling while American churches join African Bishops to get away from Pop culture (U2charist, homosexual hi jinx, and Episcopal/Muslim priests) and back to the Gospel.

Hening on November 25, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Hening on November 25, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Maybe then this is all just a tempest in a teapot. According to jihadwatch back in ‘04, there were more practicing Muslims in Britain than practicing Anglicans. Since the Archbishop is widely ignored in the Anglican community outside of Britain, he’s like the pretender to a lost throne. It would not surprise me to see the COE disappear.

JiangxiDad on November 25, 2007 at 4:34 PM

Coming from the United Methodist Church I’ve already seen the left’s infiltration of that denomination and the political radicalization of their clergy. I have to agree with Hening about where our Christian leadership is coming from these days.

Buzzy on November 25, 2007 at 4:48 PM

What is it with these guys that they can’t afford a haircut or a razor?

Laddy on November 25, 2007 at 4:55 PM

Jeez, and I thought it was going to be about Rowan Atkinson!

Beaned!

(He’d make a better archbishop than this clown, though.)

profitsbeard on November 25, 2007 at 5:03 PM

The orthodox (conservative) bishops pulled a brilliant poltical move when the latest presiding bishop (Head of) the Episcopal church was chosen. They teamed up to select a woman who was bishop of Neveda and who is extremely liberal. The idea being she would not try and fool the rest of the Anglican community into believing a reconciliation could be reached with the Episcopal church over the issue of homosexual priests and bishops and that the conservative members of the Episcopal church would see the liberal agenda for what it was. Taking over the the church in order to advance a liberal agenda.

Rowan Williams is being forced to declare the Episcopal church in the US apostates or risk having the various Anglican provinces start their own communion. The Episcopal church in the US has already begun to split with the main issue being who owns the physical property, the bishops (usually liberal) or the congregations (usually conservative). In my mind, this schism was bound to happen and the sooner the better. The liberal Episcopal church is dying and will be all but dead in a generation. The only question is what organizational form will the orthodox churches and that is being worked out by the orthodox bishops.

Rowan, you are already irrelevant to the majority of Anglicans. God Bless Peter Akinola.

Bill C on November 25, 2007 at 5:17 PM

Bill C on November 25, 2007 at 5:17 PM

How do you find one of the conservative Episcopal churches?

JiangxiDad on November 25, 2007 at 5:22 PM

thuja on November 25, 2007 at 4:08 PM

Just because you have a “strong impression” doesn’t mean you are right. Obviously. What do you mean by “passivity,” anyways? If you mean the Pope hasn’t called for the use of force againts militant Islam, than you are no doubt right. That is not his place. He is not the head of a state, but the Catholic Church. He is not Pope Urban II. These are different times, to say the least. However, probably one of the most important things he has done since taking the keys of Peter was delivering his (in)famous speech at Regensburg, which ignited so much controversy in the world. There he directly condemned the use of violence in the name of God, and especially Islam’s seeming propensity to do this. No, you are absolutely wrong. The Pope recognizes that radical Islam is one of the biggest challenges of our time. The difference between you and him, no doubt, is that he is not going to call for the nuking of Mecca.

WillBarrett on November 25, 2007 at 5:44 PM

WillBarrett on November 25, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Well, I guess he is “technically” the head of the Vatican, which is a state. But there is no standard army, and calling for all-out war against radical Islam would I dare-say be somewhat absurd.

WillBarrett on November 25, 2007 at 5:46 PM

Read through the interview at the ToL link and you’ll find him returning to some of his favorite themes: blaming the United States for atrocities committed against Christians by Muslims (“beleaguered Christian communities in Iraq, who are now suffering because their neighbours have turned against them, identifying them with the West”)

Reality alert: Christ was an Asian. We Christians follow an Asian religion. How is that of the West?

Mojave Mark on November 25, 2007 at 6:25 PM

Well, can’t speak for the American Episcopal Church in general, but I can tell you about my little corner of it. It is NOT dead or even sick. My church is growing with more people joining every year. The Sunday School is bigger. The teen group is very active. All kinds of out reach and within the Church family activities are taking place. From my perspective it is NOT a dying religion.

jeanie on November 25, 2007 at 7:51 PM

If you ever want to spend any quality time by your self in England on A Sunday (not being bothered by a lot of other people) – go to any Anglican Church.

Hilts on November 25, 2007 at 8:30 PM

And when the Pope appointed some new cardinal yesterday, he appealed for an end to the war in Iraq. I fear Christianity has been a fifth column to Western Civilization.

Why because if a stable, Western-style democracy cannot be established in Iraq that’s the end for Western Civillisation? The real threat to the West is from Muslims within like the 19 hijackers or the growing Muslims populations within Western Europe.

aengus on November 25, 2007 at 8:55 PM

Rowen Williams and many other Christian “leaders” like him are a large part of the explanation why Christianity is dying in Europe.
.
And the American Anglicans, the Episcopal Church, seem determined to follow them into oblivion. They now have a woman bishop in charge of the American church who’s as lefty-loopy as Williams…And the openly homosexual Bishop who divorced his wife to be able to live with his boyfriend.

DavePa on November 25, 2007 at 9:34 PM

WillBarrett on November 25, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Ok. I’ve put two hours of research on this subject on my calendar on Tuesday. If you have anything you’d like to me to read please let me know. Thanks.

(The reason I’m being so hesitant here is partly confusion between the current Pope and the last Pope. I don’t pay that close attention to the Catholic Church, but I do remember one of them being fairly negative about George W. and Iraq in ways that reminded me of leftist talking points. The truth is out there.)

thuja on November 25, 2007 at 10:03 PM

How do you find one of the conservative Episcopal churches?

JiangxiDad on November 25, 2007 at 5:22 PM

Start here:

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/index.php

Here are a few other options.

http://www.anglicancatholic.org/
http://www.forwardinfaithnorthamerica.com/

Bill C on November 26, 2007 at 12:05 AM

“Normalising”?
Does that mean that Williams believes India was abnormal before Britain’s aquisition of its Crown Jewel?
Wonderfully Freudian.
He slips, he falls.

soundingboard on November 26, 2007 at 11:11 AM

Bill C on November 26, 2007 at 12:05 AM

thank you.

JiangxiDad on November 26, 2007 at 11:41 AM

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