Fred to Rudy: “New York City is not emblematic of the rest of the country”
posted at 5:48 pm on November 23, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Brilliant, as a quick scroll through the comments to the Rudy/NYC post from a few days ago will attest. This crack was ostensibly aimed at Giuliani’s gun control policies but Fred’s tapping into something much bigger here and he knows it — namely, the mixture of disgust, resentment, and envy with which the rest of the country regards New York and its cultural influence. Smart regional politics, especially in the context of his new offensive against “phony conservatives.” Who could be phonier to the GOP’s southern base than a city boy from Manhattan calling himself a Republican?
Thompson, campaigning at a New Hampshire gun store with stuffed moose and deer overhead, told reporters that Giuliani too often turns to his time as New York mayor to explain his support for stronger gun restrictions.
“He relates everything to New York City. Well, New York City is not emblematic of the rest of the country, I don’t think. I think the sentiments of those people in the rest of the country are in support of the Second Amendment — which is where I’ve always been and I don’t think he’s ever been,” Thompson said…
“(Giuliani) simply supported just about every gun control legislation that came down the pike. I just disagree with him on that,” Thompson said. “I saw he was at bill signing ceremonies with (New York Sen.) Chuck Schumer and President Clinton and others for gun control legislation over the years. Of course, he’s not as outspoken about it any more.”
He also copped to having had his own skeet shoot, bought his infant son a camo t-shirt, and paused for a few bites of moose chili. Authentic.
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it is on!!!
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 5:55 PM
Drudge “Headline”:
Rudy Giuliani goes into anaphylactic shock!!!
He is reported to be hospitalized and heavily medicated.
Now resting comfortably.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 5:57 PM
I think Fred! is going to surprise a lot of people. There’s a lot of people who would like a simple no nonsense kind of President. The fire in the belly crap is just that, crap. I don’t need a Prez that screams & rants and raves or does cartwheels. I want a Prez that will quietly put his foot on Islams neck, and then lean into it.
And the “spencer Abraham reference from csdeven in 5..4..3..
commonsensehoosier on November 23, 2007 at 5:57 PM
Methinks they were ready for this.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 5:59 PM
Sweet.
Frozen Tex on November 23, 2007 at 6:00 PM
He should use this line of reasoning on Hillary should they need to debate anything.
SouthernGent on November 23, 2007 at 6:02 PM
Santa’s bringin’ armaments to the Thompson household! Woohoo!
see-dubya on November 23, 2007 at 6:06 PM
And then promptly wrote it off as a campaign expense.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 6:06 PM
Fred played a Capo with yes-men cronies like Kerik?
Which TV show was that?
Must have been on cable. I don’t have cable.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:08 PM
Mr. Giuliani, meet Mr. Thompson’s backhand.
steveegg on November 23, 2007 at 6:13 PM
Note to Fraud!:
Neither is Tennessee.
BKennedy on November 23, 2007 at 6:14 PM
Fred Knows that NYC is deep blue territory why not point that out ?
William Amos on November 23, 2007 at 6:15 PM
Fixed.
Big S on November 23, 2007 at 6:16 PM
allah,
You may have already seen this and commented, I’ve been busy. But this article clearly shows Rudy to be pro-illegal immigrants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/23/opinion/23brooks.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Rightwingsparkle on November 23, 2007 at 6:18 PM
Well McLean, VA is a lot closer than New Yawk City is!
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:19 PM
Based on what?
Kissing cousins
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 6:22 PM
He celebrated Abraham Lincoln for having the courage to take on the anti-immigrant forces.
Rudy must not be aware that, unlike him, Lincoln was against plantations.
Time for William Tecumseh Sherman to pay Rudolfo and New Yawk City a visit.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:25 PM
Envy. Heh. You really don’t get this nation at all AP.
Stephen M on November 23, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Based on me, a westerner, having been to both places.
Or do you mean that you are from/living in/have lived in Mclean, VA?
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:28 PM
MB4,
What really ticked me off is this part of his speech:
“I’m pleased to be with you this evening to talk about the anti-immigrant movement in America,” he said, “and why I believe this movement endangers the single most important reason for American greatness, namely, the renewal, reformation and reawakening that’s provided by the continuous flow of immigrants.”
No distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. Which is just the way the other side wants it to be painted.
Rightwingsparkle on November 23, 2007 at 6:30 PM
New Yawk is an envy in it’s own collective mind.
That’s about it.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:30 PM
They can not even tell the truth. They just want the illegals for their cheap labor and to be their servants anyway. Not like they want to invite them to their party’s or introduce them to their daughters.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:33 PM
McLean, VA is probably closer to mainstream American values than the city that never shuts up about itself, but Fraud! Thompson is hardly in the position to make snide remarks about what is emblematic of America. You know, with his cash funnelling, dictator cuddling, pay-for-play lobbyist ways.
BKennedy on November 23, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Lived in many places in this great nations: West Coast, South, MidWest and currently NYC. And while I have a great deal of respect for VA. I don’t think that the values are “emblamatic” to the rest of the nation, Anymore or less than NYC. But if Fred wants to take on Rudy for the accomplishments he made as mayor of NYC, he will lose badly. Fred can run on personality and ideology but let’s face it: In his political life he has accomplished nothing.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Who is that guy? Is he doing something I should be aware of?
p0s3r on November 23, 2007 at 6:38 PM
Of course they are, but it still resonates in South Carolina.
And painting Fred as a Washington Insider is a feeble plan. Fred will trade saracastic comments all day long. The fact is Rudy was far too outspoken about gun legislation and abortion. His past statements will not just evaporate because he wants them to, he has to be better than the other candidates on the issues not in rhetoric. Candidates that have been consistently pro-gun and anti-abortion have the edge. Rudy better beat Fred on policy if he wants to win South Carolina.
If Fred lowers the immigration boom Rudy and Huck can kiss South Carolina goodbye.
Theworldisnotenough on November 23, 2007 at 6:38 PM
BKennedy on November 23, 2007 at 6:34 PM
McLean is basically a commuter enclave for D.C., with a large number of Senators (ex-Senators too, I guess), Congressmen, diplomats, and lobbyists making up much of the population. It’s wealthy, white, and is only representative of the rest of the country in that it is the home of the people we elect to “represent” us.
Big S on November 23, 2007 at 6:40 PM
As I see it, this was an inevitable and even overdue riposte against Rudy’s use of his NYC record in the campaign.
As a rudy supporter I am not upset by Fred.. shrewd move by Fred BTW as its basically the only chip he has left in his floundering campaign.
But I will be MOST interested to see how Rudy responds. Not so much how Team Rudy responds, but Rudy himself.
This is one of the vulnerabilities of his NYC-centered resume, and its best he deal with it NOW. And I’d like to see him DEFEND the relevance of his NYC record, not simply lash back at Fred.
Always Right on November 23, 2007 at 6:40 PM
I have lived in many places, Oregon, Washington, Virginia, Missouri, Oklahoma, Utah, Georgia, New Jersey and California, and have visited many others like New Yawk, and I can say, personally without qualification, that New Yawk is the “odd man out”.
No contest.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:43 PM
Four years ago this would have been key. But the new “Super Tuesday” format means that Rudy just needs to win Fl nd MI and hold the national majority going into the big one. SC isn’t going to be the tradional “key to the south” that is was in previous primaries.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 6:47 PM
That can’t be right. They let me in. See what I mean. case closed.
The “much of the population” that you mention is a pretty small “much”.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Indeed NYC is unique in the country and the world. Is that a bad thing?
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 6:49 PM
I am not sure people are envious of people from NYC or just sick of being looked down on by them.
EnochCain on November 23, 2007 at 6:50 PM
Not for the rest of us.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Actually New Yawkers are definitely on the short side overall. Even the cops.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 6:56 PM
Don’t worry about it. They don’t even know you’re alive.
JiangxiDad on November 23, 2007 at 6:59 PM
The fact that Rudy made NYC better than it was only means something to those who were affected. NYC is still a slimy, crime infested city and those on the outside do not see a great victory there. It may have some positive aspects but it isn’t a model city by any means.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:05 PM
Who could be phonier? Why, Fred himself!
BJ* on November 23, 2007 at 7:06 PM
Actually, it is, at least, indicative of what an executive can accomplish. Love or hate the city but at least have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge the accomplishments.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Not really. It’s not particularly slimy, or seedy, and serious crime seems low now.
Very few positive aspects. I think the problems are best summarized by a comment someone else made here on HA:
In other words, for reasons described above, NYC is no longer “cosmopolitan”, but rather very predictable, and narrow, and parochial, and provincial. In other words, it’s dead. But like the NY Times and other lib institutions, they’re the last to know.
JiangxiDad on November 23, 2007 at 7:13 PM
Okay, I acknowledge that it’s not as bad as it was. At least that’s what people are saying. I visited it last year with my daughter’s eighth grade class when on a tour of the D.C. and Pennsylvania area. It was the worst part of the trip and my daughter and I couldn’t wait to leave.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:14 PM
Yeah, perish the thought. Noooo envy at all of New York’s influence out there. Those chips on people’s shoulders are purely my imagination.
Allahpundit on November 23, 2007 at 7:14 PM
Smart move by Fred’s side, but I’m not sure he’s going to win on the “rest of America” argument. He’s a Senator and lobbyist from Tennessee who went on to work in television, with no executive experience.
There are plenty of things he can attack Rudy on, but until he actually starts, uh, campaigning, many people will hear that and go “Fred Who?”.
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 7:17 PM
I’m with Fred. I still want Duncan, too, though.
CrimsonFisted on November 23, 2007 at 7:18 PM
And what influence would that be?
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:18 PM
And before any of you accuse my daughter and I of being some hicks from the boondocks, I grew up a in L.A. county and am now living and raising my family in Ventura County an hour out of L.A. I’m aware of big cities.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:19 PM
Shoot, I hope Santa brings that new shotgun I asked’im for!
Ex-tex on November 23, 2007 at 7:21 PM
Maybe you’d like the Bronx better.
JiangxiDad on November 23, 2007 at 7:22 PM
What influence? You mean besides the influence that comes with most major news media and financial outlets being located here?
Has the national chip on the shoulder about New York actually reached the point where people can’t even acknowledge it has influence? I can understand saying it’s a bad influence. But are we at the point of outright denialism now?
Allahpundit on November 23, 2007 at 7:22 PM
There is a small media and finance industry located here, but I won’t put words in anyone’s mouth.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Aww JD- we wuz keepin’ that a secret so as not to hurt their feelin’s.
Ex-tex on November 23, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Admit it, some here, that New York is envied by the rest of the country, in similar fashion that the U.S.A. is envied by the rest of the world. Only a sense of insecurity or inferiority can create so much feaux discontent.
This from someone who loves the rest of the country too, and doesn’t live in NY. All regions have their charm. No need to fight or get snooty about any.
Entelechy on November 23, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Having a news outlet located in a particular city doesn’t mean the city itself is somehow “special”. The city is more than one industry and it isn’t the only source for news.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:25 PM
If only there was a candidate that could put in into play….
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:25 PM
I’m sorry, but I just don’t see the appeal.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:26 PM
So true, but my “Outside Ventura News” paper keeps getting lost somehow.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:27 PM
I don’t even buy a paper. I refuse to support liberals.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:28 PM
More than 1 national news outlet is located in New York. And the fact that the people most Americans get their news from are located in New York, that would make the city pretty influential.
Then we could get into the major, sometimes multi-national, corporations located in the city, the fact it’s the largest city in the country, the stock market is located there…
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 7:28 PM
It’s all about perception, and I doubt if the average voter sits around debating how influential NYC is. It probably isn’t even on their minds. They are probably more concerned about how their families are doing and about their everyday lives.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 7:31 PM
yeah, all true. But it’s heyday is so over. Mostly coasting now.
JiangxiDad on November 23, 2007 at 7:33 PM
There’s only so much “coasting” the city can do. The stock market isn’t moving and neither are the major media sources.
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 7:36 PM
She’s coasted, and regressed before.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:40 PM
And her heyday has never been more obvious than it is today. Still a beacon for the whole the world.
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:41 PM
The Fred has blessed his minions with another dose of common sense. AHhhhh.
Go Fred.
Mojave Mark on November 23, 2007 at 7:41 PM
whole the world = whole world
sweeper on November 23, 2007 at 7:42 PM
Allah,
I can only speak for myself, but I think I can safely say that Texans never think of or much less envy New York.
Rightwingsparkle on November 23, 2007 at 7:44 PM
Give those RINOs Hell Fred!
omnipotent on November 23, 2007 at 7:46 PM
Well- I can guarentee ya that folk’s who live in TEXAS don’t envy anybody else- WE FEEL SORRY FOR’EM
(and for the record I live in NYC now- I sorta feel about NYC like I felt about Graceland when I lived in Memphis- Folks from out of town are REAL impressed the first time they visit.)
Ex-tex on November 23, 2007 at 7:47 PM
News flash! Fred has been campaigning. Wake up.
Gatordoug on November 23, 2007 at 7:47 PM
as a yankee who voluntary moved south, i can say that most southerners hold no admiration for the north or the northern lifestyle. abraham lincoln and general sherman don’t make their list of favorite persons, either. lincoln and the north being the creators of “big government”. they tend to favor general r e lee as a historical figure of that period. his immortal words have held fast to this day.
“a true union should not have to be held together by the point of a bayonet.”
warren1816 on November 23, 2007 at 7:53 PM
Newflash! I didn’t mean it in the literal sense. For example, see here.
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 8:03 PM
AP, someone can dislike NYC without being resentful, disgusted or especially envious of it.
I do agree that there are many people probably are envious of New York City, but I’d be willing to wager there are far more who have never been to NYC (and never will), who simply don’t see what the big deal is.
Bob Owens on November 23, 2007 at 8:05 PM
???
Anyone who spends time pondering another city’s “cultural influence” at all, much less feeling “disgust, resentment, and envy” for it needs to find a more interesting hobby–like counting how many red cars pass in front of his/her window.
baldilocks on November 23, 2007 at 8:06 PM
That’s so beautiful. I wish I would have thought of it!
thuja on November 23, 2007 at 8:09 PM
The media line is what that is. Fred is lazy, disinterested, etc. All a bunch of BS.
Gatordoug on November 23, 2007 at 8:13 PM
Yes, of course. The American Conservative Union Chairman? Republican pollster Whit Ayres? Veteran Republican Greg Mueller?
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 8:16 PM
What she said except that it’s about Californians instead of Texans.
baldilocks on November 23, 2007 at 8:18 PM
Yep, the GOP “leadership” has sold out for Rudy I believe. They have convinced themselves that “only Rudy can beat Hillary” A lot of these pinheads are the same types of folks who helped piss away Republican majorities IMO.
Gatordoug on November 23, 2007 at 8:36 PM
I’ve lived in North Jersey, Southern California and Texas.
Texas is its own nation
NYC is its own universe
SoCal really doesn’t exist. Everyone is really from someplace else.
tommylotto on November 23, 2007 at 8:40 PM
Now here’s a productive use of our time: bashing on various geographic regions of the US.
What ever happened to “every place is great for different reasons?”
And Fred is pulling all of 4% in New Hampshire right now… I think he’s got bigger problems there than “New York.”
e-pirate on November 23, 2007 at 8:41 PM
How have they “sold out for Rudy”? Would that be when the ACU Chairman wrote:
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 8:44 PM
Si senor.
Todo en su imaginacion.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 8:47 PM
OK, just for you on the day after Thanksgiving.
It’s a bad influence. Not much of one thankfully, but what it is is bad.
OK, are you happy now?
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 8:51 PM
It’s going to be tough to support Guliani over Clinton. They’re the same frickin’ person!
Kevin M on November 23, 2007 at 8:55 PM
Now on this, my little innocent, we are not “copasetic”.
Not even for a New Yawk minute.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 8:55 PM
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
- Matthew 5:9
They shall soon be swindled by a New Yawk song and dance man.
- Somebody or other
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:02 PM
That Thomspon campaign has really taken off like a rocket hasn’t it?
Hilts on November 23, 2007 at 9:02 PM
Sorry – I’ve only been able to skim lately. Is the Spencer Abraham issue now a non-issue?
I like Fred. This has been a rather large sticking point though.
erik on November 23, 2007 at 9:02 PM
I didn’t realize there were people who had so much attachment to a city. Strange. I’ve always felt sorry for people who had to live in NYC because of their jobs.
Rose on November 23, 2007 at 9:03 PM
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:03 PM
From the column you cited
The argument that only Rudy can win is meant to negate questions or concerns about his positions on major issues or whether he would make the sort of president Republicans will be proud of once he actually gets to the White House. It’s a gamble, but one Rudy’s supporters must think worth taking in spite of the obstinate historical tendency of primary voters to ignore what is called “winnability” in selecting a party nominee.
It was the argument used by GOP establishmentarians who opposed Barry Goldwater in 1964 and Ronald Reagan in 1980, and is ordinarily trotted out in favor of more “pragmatic” or “moderate” candidates who are out of step with their party base. Typically, one hears such a candidate’s supporters and media analysts suggesting that “he would undoubtedly be the strongest general election candidate the party could choose, but he probably cannot be nominated.” Republicans and Democrats alike have heard the argument repeated in one form or another so often that most know it by heart.
EXACTLY my point! This gentlemen raises one of the very points I am raising about the folks he calls the establimentarians. I believe The SAME tactics used against Reagan, are being used against Thompson. These folks have SOLD OUT to Rudy. The media and many Republicans have knighted Giuliani. Again, they have convinced themselves ONLY Rudy can win. They have fiorgotten once again, that Conservatism, beats Liberalism when the two run against easch other.
Gatordoug on November 23, 2007 at 9:04 PM
I’m more concerned about my hair starting to go gray.
Probably because of some infernal New Yawk influence.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:06 PM
You must have been a VERY bad boy for your kin to have sent you to New Yawk. Whatever you did it could not have been that bad.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:10 PM
Good old MB4 doing his Rudy bashing routine.
Hilts on November 23, 2007 at 9:10 PM
Ain’t that right. I knew a guy with the last name of Sherman when I was in North Virginia. He was going to some IT conference in Atlanta and they would not even let him register under the name Sherman. They said they would register him under the name Sherwood instead.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:13 PM
Yes. The gentleman also happens to the one I quoted from the Politico article I cited:
To which you responded:
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 9:14 PM
The ideologues here who bash Rudy sound so much like the left wingers who bashed Lieberman, Hubert Humphrey, Henry Jackson, Zell Miller, Ed Koch. Enjoy the Hillary presidency and have wet dreams of Duncan Hunter (and I forgot Fred!).
Hilts on November 23, 2007 at 9:17 PM
So, I quoted Keene as part of my point that Fred’s hardly campaigning and wasting an opportunity. You tell me it’s part of the media line. You also say the GOP leadership has sold out for Rudy. I quote Keene, showing that he hasn’t sold out and yet he’s saying Fred’s wasting an opportunity.
amerpundit on November 23, 2007 at 9:17 PM
They were separated at birth. Hillary just shaves her legs, sometimes. I don’t think Rudy does any more although I can’t be sure, of course. That’s about the main difference anyway.
MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Just wait till he adopts that campaign song that I
stoleauthored for him, then look out.MB4 on November 23, 2007 at 9:20 PM
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