Video: Bro tased
posted at 9:31 pm on November 21, 2007 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | regular view
Starts slow but the initial demand for license and registration contains just enough ‘tude to make it worth watching in full. If you can’t be bothered, skip ahead to 2:00 or (-8:00 if you’re counting down) and see what happens when electricity is introduced into the mix of an ornery cop, a driver who doesn’t take him seriously, and his pregnant wife. The investigation’s already begun:
The Utah Highway Patrol has a nine-page policy on Taser use, including in instances where “a subject is threatening himself, an officer or another person with physical force, and when other means of controlling the subject are unreasonable or could cause injury to the officer, the subject or others,” Nigbur said.
Any threat of injury to the officer here?
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next »
Oh, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
AntonK on November 22, 2007 at 8:42 AM
I agree with you, up to a point. My flippant comment was more around, proportional response. The prevailing attitude seems to be that if one dares question a police officer, the immediate assumption is that the jaywalker must also be a potential psycho killer.
flipflop on November 22, 2007 at 8:42 AM
You, sir, are a totalitarian. 3 to 1 says you own a badge.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 8:43 AM
Most reasonable people don’t refuse to turn around and put their hands behind their back when order by an Officer with his weapon drawn. You know who does? Hard core criminals with outstanding bigboy warrants and over educated sheltered, naive, petulant, self-righteous children who actually think a Police Officer is akin to a Mall Security Guard.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 8:43 AM
This is not complicated. When a police officer lawfully attempts to place you under arrest, you do not have any “right” to refuse or resist, regardless of whether you consider yourself (or *are*) innocent.
LagunaDave on November 22, 2007 at 8:44 AM
Even though the police officer could have handled the situation differently, the young speeder should have obeyed while being served the ticket. I’ll chalk this up to a defective education and an unwholesome disrespect for authority on the part of the speeder.
Zorro on November 22, 2007 at 8:47 AM
As I said above, I agree up to a point. The guy in question here wasn’t really resisting, but he wasn’t immediately compliant, either. In the absence of any imminent threat, the cop resorted too quickly to the taser.
I’m actually a big fan of the taser as an alternative to lethal force. But a good cop would have handled the situation completely differently.
flipflop on November 22, 2007 at 8:48 AM
Fixed!
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 8:48 AM
That’s just dumb. If that is really the case then everyone that has ever gotten a moving violation would have to answer affirmatively on a job application that they have been arrested. But we all know that that is not the case, so getting a speeding ticket is very different from being “arrested”.
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 8:49 AM
A taser beats a nightstick in the head or across your legs which is the way it was done before the invention.
Remember, a police officer has no idea who he is dealing with. He doesn’t know if you are a killer. He doesn’t know if you are on drugs. He doesn’t know if you have 100 pounds of Coke in the back. Your job is to recognize that and be nonthreatening and cooperative in that setting. If the cop is unreasonable, you file a complaint. You don’t argue with him and ignore his orders on the side of a road.
There’s an old ditty about that goes something like, Here lies Jack. He died maintaining his right of way. Jack was right. Dead right.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 8:52 AM
Most of us also know that being arrested in no way implies guilt or culpability for anything. Job applications inquire about convictions, not arrests.
LagunaDave on November 22, 2007 at 8:53 AM
On the street the cop’s the boss. In the courtroom, not so much.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 8:55 AM
Again, I agree up to a point. But few people have died from a baton to the knees, or even a “wood shampoo” as a cop buddy of mine used to say. I’d have to search for a link to support my statement, but when that guy in Vancouver died being tased, there was a news report saying that hundreds of such deaths have occurred. Something like 200-300.
I maintain that a good cop would have handled the situation differently.
flipflop on November 22, 2007 at 8:58 AM
I agree with you to a point. I already said I think the officer probably acted according to the law in terms of the tasering and arrest. But, I don’t think most reasonable people would think that being cuffed and arrested would result from simply refusing to put your signature on a document. It would have been nice if the officer had told him what the consequences will be and giving him a chance to change his mind and comply. The officer immediately asked him to get out of the car and tried to an affect an arrest immediately when he said he wouldn’t sign. Seems like he was itching to take this guy to jail.
And about only hard core criminals or self-righteous children refusing to immediately put their hands behind there back… sometimes people who are in a state of shock and confusion at something so absurd happening can cause the same disbelief that this driver displayed.
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 8:58 AM
Then your issue is with the taser which most reasonable people assume is a lot less forceful than a nightstick.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 8:59 AM
Very true. The one time I challenged a traffic citation in court, I won. The cop ended up looking pretty foolish…he had ticketed me for driving on the shoulder on the highway, when in fact I had pulled onto the shoulder because my car had overheated. I think the cop was just stuck in traffic and got bored so he decided to hassle me.
flipflop on November 22, 2007 at 9:01 AM
No. You’re wrong. It’s actually a very standard question on many job applications to ask “Were you ever arrested?”
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 9:01 AM
The only issue I have with tasers is when they’re used without real provocation. I just don’t see that it was justified in this case.
flipflop on November 22, 2007 at 9:02 AM
C’mon this guy didn’t get tasered for refusing to sign anything. He got tasered because he got out of the car escalating a tense situation and then refused to comply with the officer’s instructions. If he’d just stayed in the car nothing would have happened (speculation of course). Most likely the cop would have jotted down on the summons that he had refused to sign and he could have gone his merry way. That’s not what he did. That being said I still think the officer overreacted. In any case the best place to settle this sort of thing is in the courtroom. It’s a PITA but that’s how it works.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 9:07 AM
I get your point but the fact remains this officer did his job extremely poorly. He’s paid to deal with idiots. He’s trained to deal with people who dont comply. In this case it’s some numbnuts shlep with his pregnant wife who doesnt quite get that you do what the cop says, it’s not a debate, it’s not a court.
That in mind, the officer obviously didnt want to deal with it and went right to arrest mode and then from there to taser mode. The guy got scared and reacted poorly, but it’s on the officer to handle it properly.
So as I said earlier, the guy is an idiot but the cop should be fired. If he cant deal with a clueless dope without tasering him he cant be trusted on the job.
Dash on November 22, 2007 at 9:10 AM
C’mon this guy didn’t get tasered for refusing to sign anything. He got tasered because he got out of the car escalating a tense situation and then refused to comply with
Unbelievable! Did you even watch the video before commenting. The officer immediately instructs the driver “Okay, hop out of the car”, when he refuses to sign.
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 9:12 AM
Unbelievable! Did you even watch the video before commenting. The officer immediately instructs the driver “Okay, hop out of the car”, when he refuses to sign.
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 9:12 AM
Acutally yes I did watch it, a couple of times. I have to admit though I can’t really make out much of the conversation that occurred when the cop was standing by the car window. Too much background noise. If that is what happened it changes things somewhat. I still say the best place to settle this is in the courtroom. He still refused to comply with the officers instructions AND the cop still overracted.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 9:18 AM
I hope next time this spoiled loser gets pulled over, he has the decency to at least stay within camera range and in focus when he gets tazed again.
BobJones-77 on November 22, 2007 at 9:20 AM
The driver is an idiot. That doesn’t change the fact that the cop is a thug and an arrogant punk.
When I was 12, I was accused at Boy Scout summer camp of slashing a tent. I didn’t do it. In comes a “peace officer”, who promptly cuffs me, throws me face down in the mud, takes a swipe at me with the nightstick, and pulls his “service” weapon on my scoutmaster when the scoutmaster snatched him off of me. That “peace officer” recently retired, despite the injuries he sustained from said scoutmaster lo so many years ago. I’ve seen your badge as a symbol of arrogance, and as a threat to my safety, ever since. In almost 40 years on this earth, I’ve never met a “peace officer” that was worth the powder and shot necessary to blow him away.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 9:20 AM
Also, notice that when the officer tells him to “hop out of the car”, the officer immediately turns his back and starts waling away from the vehicle to his police car. That has to be dangerous and not according to procedure. This officer is just a bad and incompetent cop all the way around, yet he is still on the job.
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 9:21 AM
I just watched it again and I still can’t hear the cop tell the guy to get out of his car. Does he actually say that?
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 9:22 AM
Yes he does actually say that. His exact words are, “okay, hop out of the car.”
greggish on November 22, 2007 at 9:23 AM
He got out of the car because the cop ordered him to do so. The cop could and should have told him what the consequences of not signing the ticket were, and then taken it from there. Instead, he escalated the situation by throwing his weight around and getting into a pi$$ing match over a (probably civil, i.e. non-criminal) traffic infraction. This situation could easily have been avoided had the officer behaved professionally.
Insomniac on November 22, 2007 at 9:24 AM
If you are denied employment due to a question on an application about past arrests (as opposed to convictions), you have a good case for a lawsuit against the prospective employer. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) enforces rather stringent guidelines in this area:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/arrest_records.html
LagunaDave on November 22, 2007 at 9:26 AM
Hmmm, You’re right. That does sort of put a different light on things. If he felt threatened why would he turn his back and walk away. Still doesn’t change my opinion that this fight should have been in the courtroom. Still can’t hear the darn audio.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 9:26 AM
The officer is too lax and undisciplined.
I could point to a lot of videos where an officer was assaulted under these same circumstance but I don’t want to divert from the thread.
The trooper was not insistant enough and he did not explain that signing the ticket was not an admission of guilt but a promise to appear in court to resolve the issue.
BUT
The speeder was uncooperative the entire time and had earned arrest. The trooper was physically outmatched and alone and if he had lost control he could have lost his weapons and endangered not just himself but the public as well.
Beto Ochoa on November 22, 2007 at 9:36 AM
From Fox News right now. It’s about the cop whose fourth wife is missing.
Dobrich would not describe the alleged violations, but told the Tribune they were serious enough to potentially trigger the loss of Drew Peterson’s $6,000 monthly pension. Under state law, a police officer’s pension may be denied or revoked only if the officer is convicted of a job-related felony.
$6000 a month to a retired “peace officer”. Nah. We’re not second-class citizens….
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 9:38 AM
Police are out of control. There are way too many of them and they don’t have enough to do.
roux on November 22, 2007 at 9:39 AM
Let me add that I wouldn’t want that guy as a cop in my town and his level of expertise is below what a State Trooper should exhibit.
Too unprofessional.
Beto Ochoa on November 22, 2007 at 9:41 AM
By the way, just because this particular cop should be fired, I’m not on the “all cops are worthless” bandwagon. This is the minority. Every cop I’ve ever known personally or dealt with has been very professional.
Dash on November 22, 2007 at 9:46 AM
How come they can speed check with mounted cameras and mail you a ticket without a signature? Has the constitution over ruled that practice? If someone hands me $10,000 cash for doing a job and there is no bill and no receipt and no signatures does that mean I don’t owe the IRS tax on that money? Since when is a signature proof of everything?
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 9:46 AM
Completely immaterial.
The cop didn’t initiate the arrest procedure because he felt threatened. He did it because the suspect refused to agree to appear in court.
When the suspect subsequently refused to be taken into custody, the officer used non-lethal force to make him comply.
The question in the original post (”Any threat of injury to the officer here?”) is a red herring. The policy does not require that the officer believe there is any threat of injury to himself, but rather:
Does anyone want to argue that bludgeoning the suspect into submission with a night stick in front of his wife would have been more reasonable and less likely to injure?
LagunaDave on November 22, 2007 at 9:47 AM
Incorrect, the taser is intended to subdue unruley subjects that are not going to cooperate with the officers demands when he is going to arrest him. In the past this situation would have resulted in a wrestling match and fist fight where injury to both the officer and the subject could have resulted. If deadly force is called for in the case that the subject is about to hurt the officer or a bystander the use of the service pistol is still called for, not the taser. That is why they still carry guns and not just tasers.
conservnut on November 22, 2007 at 9:50 AM
No, but you seem to want to argue that a taser is non-lethal force. Frankly, so is a firearm, most of the time. The taser was supposed to be an alternative to the firearm, to be used in the same situations. Then again, SWAT teams were supposed to be called out for hostage situations instead of being used to see if Lil Johnny has a lid of weed in his sock drawer.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 9:51 AM
Way back in the postings, people who lived in Utah stated that in Utah if you refuse to sign they note it on the ticket and send you on your way. Someone else highlighted a quote from a source that stated it is the officers decision whether to arrest someone for not signing a ticket. It appears the cop checked this guys information, was prepared to let him go if he signed. The guy refused and was obviously a jerk. The cop should have noted the refusal and went back to actually protecting the citizens of Utah from real threats. Instead it became about the cops ego and escalated to the point that the cop pulled a trigger.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 9:54 AM
It’s not just that he refused to sign. You need to listen to the audio of what the Kid says to the Officer when the Officer returns with the citation. He is belligerent and begins giving the Officer orders – “No. First you are going to tell me why you are giving me a ticket and then we are going to go and find that sign…”. That’s what escalated the situation. Even after the kid was tased, he continues giving the Officer orders, “Read me my rights,…” etc.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 9:58 AM
Officer was right to take this guy down before it got out of his control. The guy should have stayed in the car.
Wade on November 22, 2007 at 10:04 AM
So being a jerkoff is now against the law. That makes sense. Calling someone a bad name while beating them with a bat is a worse crime then silently beating them with a bat so I guess being unpleasant should be punishable by corporal means or imprisonment. If signing the ticket was black and white (sign or be arrested) the cop should have looked past the guy and said to the wife, “Maam, your husband signing this ticket is not an omission of guilt but if your husband refuses to sign this citation the law of Utah compels me to take him into custody.” If the law wasn’t black and white the cop should have said, “I will note your refusal to cooperate and the citation and court date will be mailed to you.”
Instead this guy who should not be allowed to carry a gun escalated the situation to the point that he pulled a trigger. What if Utah didn’t use tasers? Should this stupid little geek have been blown away?
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 10:08 AM
Being required to sign the ticket on the spot is merely to acknowledge receipt of said ticket, not an admission of guilt. Having the ticket signed on the spot prevents corruption, because police can’t write tickets willy-nilly and then send out arrest warrants.
Frozen Tex on November 22, 2007 at 10:11 AM
As was pointed out so succinctly to me. The officer requested that the man get out of the car. If he hadn’t exited he’d still be in non compliance with the officer’s instructions.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 10:15 AM
My guess is that the people who are 4square behind this cop have never been in a postion managing people. There are a 100 ways to resolve a situation. With all the harmless idiots out there I doubt the checklist of possibilities for this officer were so limited. No one on this posting thinks that driver did ANYTHING right. The cop was the controlling authority and needed to have the maturity and responsibility to defuse this trivial, stupid situation. The cop was in control, it escalated because he not only allowed it to escalate but fueled the fire with his own ego.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 10:23 AM
Again, deal with reality. If you are belligerent and disrespectful to an Officer you are going to piss him off. It pissed me off just listening to the little arrogant pr*ck. They are human too. It’s common sense. If you cop an attitude you are going to pay for it. That’s life. That’s reality. You can stamp your feet and yell to the heavens over the “fairness” and “professionalism” of it all you want and it won’t change a thing. Being a functioning productive adult requires accepting reality.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda – if the kid had an once of respect and common sense he would have been cooperative, respectful and apologetic and he probably wouldn’t have even been ticketed.
I bet $10K that I would have pulled away with just a warning…
Hands on the wheel at 10 and 2. Window down. “was I going a little fast? Oh, sorry about that I must have missed the sign. Is it ok if I reach in my pocket to get my License? Great, here you go. My registration is in the glove compartment, may I get it? Great, here you go. Thank you”
“Sir, I am letting you off with a warning. Please be more careful and pay more attention to the speed limit signs.”
“Thank you Officer, have nice day.”
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 10:30 AM
That’s a very interesting hypothesis. I’m not sure about the truth of it but still very interesting. I’ve also been wondering how many who are 100% behind the cop are either in law enforcement or have close ties to it.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 10:36 AM
Any cop that cannot control his emotions should not be a cop. Bottom line.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 10:40 AM
You know what’s also reality? That cop getting fired for getting pissed off. And he can cry and stamp his feet and complain the man could have been a cop killer! That woman coulda been packing a bazooka in her shirt how did I know it was a baby?? But at the end of the day, he has the wrong attitude to be an officer if he cant hold it together to get this dope under control without a taser.
Dash on November 22, 2007 at 10:40 AM
At the beginning of your post you said “Again, deal with reality”. Then you lapse into total fantasy. You might want to add mighta to “Shoulda, woulda, coulda”.
Maybe you’d have gotten off maybe not. Pure speculation. Now if you’d have flashed a police ID for him I’d say your chances would have been greatly enhanced.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 10:41 AM
And you should get a grip on reality. I earlier related a story about getting a ticket for something I didn’t do. That cop wasn’t going to communicate beyond asking for my information and telling me how to pay the ticket. You seem to live in an absolute world. Hilary will appreciate your vote.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 10:42 AM
And your assumption would be dead wrong. I’ve managed 100s of people at once and managing people is not analogous to a potentially life and death situation which every “routine” traffic stop can be.
I will tell you, I do tend to fire petulant idealists as quickly as possible. They tend to be subversive and cause nothing but problems throughout the organization. People who can’t understand and deal with reality are useless to me.
I’m not. I’m just an adult with common sense. I do enjoy
So you have a personal axe to grind. Go figure.
I owned an IROC and a Grand National (which in and of itself makes you a target). I never received a speeding ticket. I even took a left on red in the Grand National right in front of a cop and didn’t receive a ticket. So, my speculation is grounds in 27 years of on-road experience.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 10:47 AM
Wow this was the prefect storm a sawed off Barney Fife with a Napoleon complex meets a spoiled brat elitist DU commentor. This is a good example of why the height requirments for cops should never have been banned./s Really though as more veterans return from the war and get jobs as cops we can expect a more robust enforcement approach here at home. The driver got a lesson trafic stop etiquette My golden rule of traffic stops is to ‘yes sir’ the cop to death, then get the hell out of there. The system sucks and once your name gets entered in it’s not an easy task to get it removed even for the smallest offence. Mr. “read me my rights” needs to get a grip on discretion being the better part of valor.
sonnyspats1 on November 22, 2007 at 10:49 AM
A few monts ago I was pulled over a road going about 45 in a 30 and got pulled over by a cop hiding on the side of the road around a bend. No ticket, just a warning. Being polite, respectful and contrite goes a long way with police officers. They save the tickets and the tasers for the A-holes and there are plenty of them on the roads in greater Boston.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Now it is all clear. I McDonalds manager who drives souped up muscle cars and lives in Massechusetts.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 10:54 AM
A
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 10:54 AM
Ha, ha, ha. I’ll put my CV up against your any day of the week my friend. I’ve sold 2 companies already and starting my third. Now go home and get your shine box.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 10:55 AM
Wade, if you listen carefully, just before the driver exits the car, the officer says “Ok, get out of the car.” He then proceeds to try and arrest the driver. From what I could see, it looked like the van had out of state plates, so the officer could have advised the driver that it was against the law to refuse to sign, if it was and given him a second chance.
Normally, I side with the cop, but in this case I’m wondering if the cop set him up. If you notice, at the first of the video, the cop pulls to the shoulder just in front of a temporary speed limit sign. The officer blocked the sign from the view of trailing traffic and lit up the first person who blew past it. The driver obviously didn’t see the sign or he wouldn’t have been wanting to go back and see what it said. Some cops in my area do (legitimate) traffic stops minutes before they are supposed to be going off the clock simply to collect the overtime. I wonder about this one. He possibly thought he had an easy out of state mark.
Catseye on November 22, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Nope. Don’t believe you. You aren’t even able to comprehend this whole debate. Since it started it has been consensus that the driver was a little jerk. However, here in the US, there are people who are put in positions of responsiblity because they are supposed to be able to rise above the level of little jerks. This cop wasn’t one of them and when this case runs it’s course my money is on him being reprimanded. Unforunately, here in the US, we have people like you who think in absolutes. You are no different then Rosie O’Donnell. You are fixated on one point and can’t comprehend anything beyond. I think if you managed hundreds, which I doubt, you were a cruel, unjust and highly disliked manager. Now go get in your latest shortcoming compensation machine and have a great Thanksgiving.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 11:04 AM
I don’t care if you believe me or not. But i tell you what, I’ll do, lets escrow $5K on a bet. Deal? Got $5K?
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 11:06 AM
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 10:55 AM
Ok this is totally off topic but I just gotta find out. I’ve been watching your posts for a long time now. Your screen name caught my attention. My best friend’s nickname, given to him by some of our employees, was BigDog. He was into muscle cars too. His personality seemed to be a lot like yours judging from your posts. We had many many debates over subjects like this thread. He would have been about 50/50 with you on this one. Now I know you’re not him but dang I get a sense of deja vu reading some of your posts. Were you ever in the navy?
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 11:07 AM
This kind of thing sends me into orbit.
First I’ll say, if a police officer is pointing a gun at me, I’m going to do what he says and not walk off, disregarding his commands.
Some people assume they can take a police officer seriously when they think it’s in THEIR best interest.
The officer told this jerk what he was going to do if he didn’t stop and turn around. The said jerk decides he didn’t do anything wrong, and what’s more, he thinks he knows what the law is better than the police officer.
Disagree with the ticket and THEN take it up with the judge. Don’t go giving an officer an excuse to tase you or take you to jail. Haha, or both.
So what happened:
A guy gets pulled over. The officer is nice to him. The thing is, if el jerko would have just been nice he may have gotten off with a warning.
The officer tells the guy (who is now a jerk) he was speeding.
Jerk starts to mouth off.
Officer goes to squad car, comes back with ticket for jerk to sign.
Jerk refuses.
Officer tells him he’ll sign it and for all intent purposes let’s jerk know it’s not a good thing to refuse to sign. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to read between the lines.
Officer tells jerk to get out of car, which jerk does.
Officer tells jerk to turn around.
Jerk refuses and starts to walk off.
Officer POITNS A TASER GUN AT JERK AND INFORMS HIM HE’LL BE TASED IF HE DOESN’T COMPLY.
Jerk doesn’t comply.
Jerk gets ZAPPED. Which to me is funny and jerk deserved it.
What IDIOT walks off from an officer who is pointing a taser gun at him?
Even though jerk has a pregnant wife in the car, the officer has no idea what jerk is up to. Anyone remember that guy who beat a female cop almost to death? His 9 year old daughter was standing right next to him when he did it. There are no guarantees that this guy won’t take off, endangering other lives, or even go back to his car to get a gun. If I’m an officer I don’t trust anyone when they refuse my order to stop.
There’s my long winded 2 cents worth.
This guy deserved it, but what’s sad is he’ll probably get a big payday out of it and retire. Because they’ll probably bring his pregnant wife into the ordeal. You know, “She almost miscarried when her husband was brutalized”.
People, obey the law and you won’t have to go through this.
AteMyFoot on November 22, 2007 at 11:08 AM
A successful man doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone. Stop bragging about what you think people will be impressed with and start thinking through your arguements a little better.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 11:10 AM
The cop should be reprimanded as a minimum. The driver that got zapped is a dummy that broke traffic stop rule #1:
“When stopped by a cop be polite, don’t debate, and show a little humility”
I have been stopped more than a few times for speeding or a light out and this approach has always resulted in being sent off with a warning. Good lesson to pound into your kids’ heads — cops love to draw out the attitude to see things escalate.
Oh I did get ticketed once when Jaibones reported seeing “a liberal twit crossing the center line”
Bradky on November 22, 2007 at 11:11 AM
First, remember each state’s laws are different. Each department in that state can add too but not take away from the state’s laws.
I’m a police officer in Tennessee.
Speeding is a misdemeanor…don’t believe it? Well here is Tennessee Code Annotated regarding citation in lieu of custodial arrest. Here is the TCA regarding speeding. The second link is TCA 55-8-152 Speeding. Scroll down to sub paragraph (f) (2). In that paragraph you’ll find the sentence – A violation of this subsection (f) is a Class C misdemeanor.
Have a nice day.
And by the way, on most employment applications you’ll find that the employer asks about any arrest other than traffic citations.
SPIFF1669 on November 22, 2007 at 11:15 AM
Bwahaha. I now know all I need to know about you. Good luck. You’re going to need it. Hopefully, you’ll smarten up and the cost won’t be too high when it happens.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 11:17 AM
On this Thanksgiving day, I am thankful for the right to speak my mind. A Happy Thanksgiving to you all and to the Boss, who has so graciously given this forum.
BigOldDog— You seem to believe that submission to authority is the mark of a civilized society. If “submission” is your gig, I’ve heard of a religion that might fill the bill for you. Check it out.
I never knew that HotAir was populated by so many statists.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:17 AM
OK. You people are right. Cops should never be questioned about their actions and should never be held accountable. Who cares if this guy was driving his family to live at his in laws because his house was just foreclosed on and he thinks the world is against him. Or maybe his mother just died after a long unpleasant illness. Who cares if everyone isn’t perfect and he might have had a bad year and wants to stand up for his rights. Cops are infallible and however they want to act is OK. We should always smile and never speak up. If anyone looks at them the wrong way they should be able to bust some heads. After all, we can’t let a crack appear in their authority. Let’s put your daughters or mothers in the hands of this cop, we can trust him, after all, he has the authority of the government behind him, has a dangerous job, and is always right.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 11:18 AM
He is a small man with a big chip.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 11:20 AM
So does your money make you a better citizen? Not at all. If you’re not willing to stand up for liberty (which you’re obviously not), I’m offended that American dollars ever made it to your pocket.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:20 AM
Big Dog is 40 years old, lives in the bedroom in his parents house where he has always lived and spends his free time driving around in his iroc listening to bruce springsteen.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 11:22 AM
This whole thing was a comedy of errors on the part of both individuals, but the cop is going to pay for it in civil court once a jury sees the tape.
Happy Thanksgiving to all. I’m off to see the outlaws.
Catseye on November 22, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Not submission. Common sense. You pick your battles and you pick the battlefields. You chose each to maximize your advantage of prevailing. Mouthing off to a cop and disobeying a lawful order even after the officer has drawn his weapon is the equivalent of slamming your head against a concrete wall. You can’t and won’t win.
You are the one who made this personal. It says a lot about the type of person you are that you are incapable of having a debate without making it personal. Have a great Thanksgiving.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 11:28 AM
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:30 AM
That is the typical liberal strategy of twisting the debate and accusing someone else of your own actions. One thing you have convinced me of is that you are from Massachusetts.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 11:31 AM
Cop picked the battlefield, and he won. Your defense of him continues to define you as a statist and an authoritarian with no respect for the dignity or freedom of you fellow citizen.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Well! This is degenerating into a verbal fist fight. Happy Thanksgiving.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 11:35 AM
Don’t be facetious; of course cops are held accountable! Of course cops aren’t infallible! But the time and place for questioning authority and standing up for your rights isn’t the side of the highway! There’s a system in place, be it complaints commissions, internal affairs departments, or your friendly neighborhood lawyer, for dealing with complaints against police officers. Arguing at the side of the road never helps your case, it just escalates the situation.
Frozen Tex on November 22, 2007 at 11:36 AM
Don’t take this as a slam, I’m not being antagonistic here. But speculate a little what do you think you’d have done in the same situation?
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 11:36 AM
Hah. You know how often peaceandprosperity, BigOldDog, and me are hitting the refresh button?! We’re all just jousting til its time to eat. Honest men can disagree, and disagree vehemently, and I nonetheless offer my best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving to all.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Wow, 479 comments! Maybe we’re stuck in a rut, and AP or Bryan need to post something new; perhaps some lovely humpbot video…
Frozen Tex on November 22, 2007 at 11:38 AM
That’s what you’re missing. The kid picked the battle and the battlefield. If he was polite, accepted the ticket and fought his battle in court where it is meant to be fought and where the odds of him prevailing are good, he wouldn’t have been tased. He wouldn’t have been arrested. He wouldn’t have had to hire an attorney. He wouldn’t have made himself the topic of discussion.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Slam away, I’m used to it. I would have been polite and signed the ticket and been on my way. If I were the cop I would have been polite and explained and if the guy continued to be an a**hole would’ve handed him the ticket and let him go on his way. Lots of decision were made on both sides, and none of them were good. What this discussion is really about though is the relationship between the state and the people. As we saw, the state is ready to hurt to you at the drop of a hat.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:41 AM
I have about as much faith in any internal affairs department as I do in Al Gore’s science credentials. That’s sort of like letting the IRS audit itself.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 11:43 AM
IA is just one of many ways; whatever is appropriate to your particular jurisdiction.
Frozen Tex on November 22, 2007 at 11:47 AM
No disagreement, except about who picked the battlefield. The police officer is supposed to be able to defuse situations, not ratchet them up. And he did just that.
Yes the driver is a moron, and I’ll bet a tasing hasn’t changed that. But this video shows volumes about the relationship between the people and the state and how it has degraded. Police refer to us as “civilians”, despite the fact that most of them were too cowardly to put on a real uniform. They dress up as ninjas and kill little black widow ladies and plant evidence and have no repercussions from it. I know my language and attitude are quite strong, but I was taught that the state is the authority TO A POINT. Assaulting my life, and especially my honor and dignity, is well beyond that magical point. I have never had an interaction with the government that didn’t result in a price, whether in my liberty, my property, or both.
I’ve ragged on you hard, BigOldDog, but I nonetheless wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, fellow citizen. I think the argument here is actually quite important.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:49 AM
This guy’s a areal dork. His mouth is obviously ahead of his brain. He’s lucky the cops have tasers, he could have used a 9 mil.
My wife’s uncle was a cop, killed in the line of duty.
There’s no respect for authority anymore. What goes around comes around.
dalec on November 22, 2007 at 11:51 AM
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Hmmm, I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with both of you. I’m not quite as rabid about law enforcement as you are but I didn’t have a event like you at age 12. I will say that my encounters with the police have been about 70/30 good bad. But in all but one of the bad encounters the cop eventually lost and in one case lost big time. Bad encounters meaning that the cop was undeniably in the wrong. The one time that the cop(s) won out was due to subsequent events beyond both of our control and prevented a following meeting on less police friendly ground.
OBTW, I think I’d have done exactly what you said in your 11:41 post.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 11:52 AM
My condolences to your wife, no matter how long ago it may have happened. But when you say that “There’s no respect for authority anymore”, please remember that authority has no respect for you, either.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 11:53 AM
>Anybody else notice the cops car was slowing
>down and then in front of the 40mph sign? It
>seems plausible the guy actually did not see
>the sign if the cops car was blocking it.
>91Veteran on November 21, 2007 at 11:33 PM
Yeah, I saw that too… That sign may have been low enough that the driver didn’t see it for the police car blocking it.
ricer1 on November 22, 2007 at 11:54 AM
“Quite strong” is an understatement! Cowardly?!? Change “too cowardly to put on a real uniform” to “to dumb to get a real job” and this sounds an awful lot like the left’s view of our military!
COWARDLY?!?
Frozen Tex on November 22, 2007 at 11:56 AM
You give the way too much credit. They are human beings with power and they act accordingly. When you get under their skin, and potantially put their lives at risk you’re going to suffer for it.
These people put their lives on the line very day. Fox is showing a video right now of a Trooper hit by a truck doing 70 during a routine traffic stop. That sort of thing happens too frequently and it’s not lost on them.
Huh? Are there bad cops? Sure. But the vast majority are hard working blue collar stiffs, many of who started off in the military, who are trying to get through the day without getting killed. They aren’t into tasing people on the side of the road simply for the fun of it.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 11:57 AM
Well it seems that most everyone agrees on a couple of things.
The driver was a jerk.
The cop overreacted.
Add garnishments to suit your level of (in)tolerance.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 11:58 AM
I don’t think he did. I thought that as well, but then thought it might just be the way the brake lights show up on the camera. After watching the video a bit, you can then see when he shifts to park because some lower lights flash as the shifter goes through reverse to park.
91Veteran on November 22, 2007 at 11:59 AM
Amen. And that condescension and antipathy is exactly what you say and heard from that kid.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 12:04 PM
Yep. Don’t think I misspelled it. The standard career arc of a police officer is “high-school:mall guard:mall guard/volunteer cop: cop: mall guard”. See a cop over 30 years old and you’re looking at someone who didn’t get out when the getting is good. Oh, and that thing about the military? Remember that the Abu Ghraib ringleader was a cop in the reserves, not a soldier who became a cop.
HerrMorgenholz on November 22, 2007 at 12:07 PM
Who taught you this? And where did you learn it? Certainly nothing I was ever taught.
Oldnuke on November 22, 2007 at 12:07 PM
Where are you from?
Most of the police here in New England have college grads, are ex-military and are pretty well compensated. There was an article in the Boston Herald the other day about some Officers making over $200K a year with O/T and details… maybe our view of police is colored by geography.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM
What cops have you been looking at? Most I know are highly educated (post secondary 2 or 4 year degrees, plus continued education while serving).
I know you spelled cowardly correctly; I was just incredulous you would use that word to describe people who put their lives on the line everyday.
Are there corrupt/inept cops out there? Sure there are. But just because I got food poisoning from restaurants once or twice in my life, doesn’t mean they’re all out to poison me…
Frozen Tex on November 22, 2007 at 12:17 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next »