Video: Bro tased
posted at 9:31 pm on November 21, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Starts slow but the initial demand for license and registration contains just enough ‘tude to make it worth watching in full. If you can’t be bothered, skip ahead to 2:00 or (-8:00 if you’re counting down) and see what happens when electricity is introduced into the mix of an ornery cop, a driver who doesn’t take him seriously, and his pregnant wife. The investigation’s already begun:
The Utah Highway Patrol has a nine-page policy on Taser use, including in instances where “a subject is threatening himself, an officer or another person with physical force, and when other means of controlling the subject are unreasonable or could cause injury to the officer, the subject or others,” Nigbur said.
Any threat of injury to the officer here?
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Respect my authoritah!
/obligatory
Bad Candy on November 21, 2007 at 11:06 PM
As long as they don’t taze any Jihadis in Guantanamo. That would be torture.
ronsfi on November 21, 2007 at 11:06 PM
Welcome to the world of JBT’s.
If you think the Cop was right, I feel pity for you.
If that idiot still has a job next week, we all have one more problem.
jefferson101 on November 21, 2007 at 11:07 PM
What about the wife in this situation? Having witnessed this scene from her perspective, would she have been justified in drawing on and even firing on the officer? Plenty of people carry weapons in their vehicles, legal or not. The cop could’ve very well escalated himself to boot hill, had he stopped the wrong couple.
windbag on November 21, 2007 at 11:07 PM
peacenprosperity on November 21, 2007 at 10:21 PM
You spent $200 to get out of a $40 ticket? Makes sense.
lorien1973 on November 21, 2007 at 10:27 PM
hahahahahah, good observation !
SIJ6141 on November 21, 2007 at 11:08 PM
ronsfi
What is torture is the jihadis getting head of line priviledge over troops at Gitmo’s medical facility. And those illegal combatant captives gaining weight at Gitmo (which has never been heard of in gulags, or other tortuous places people dared to compare us to. but thats a nother story.) by eating better than us serving veterans in Iraq and afghanistan.
They get better food and medical care than we do.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:10 PM
Allah…will you follow this story and tell us what happens?
lsutiger on November 21, 2007 at 11:12 PM
The text regarding the Taser policy says, “including in ….”
I don’t take that to mean those are the only situations in which it may be appropriate.
mikeyboss on November 21, 2007 at 11:13 PM
jefferson101
What if there were no tasers? That cop would then apprehend him for resisting arrest. Assuming refusing to sign a ticket warrants arrest. He would have to use physical force, thus putting his life at risk because he is alone, and he can’t just shoot him so the only answer would be to physically take the guy down.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:14 PM
Yeah, I just asked my dad (a retired police officer) about this…according to him, you have to sign the ticket (it’s like a bond) or you can be brought into the station to post a monetary bond. You’ve already been tecnically “arrested” once you’re pulled over for, in this case, speeding.
Either way, this guy was going to be brought in, if he refuses to sign the ticket.
Plus, the guy just walks away when the cop ordered him to stop. People have to realize…every single routine traffic stop can end in unpredictable ways. Officers never know what might happen. Do what the cop says.
JetBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:16 PM
Well, there’s the 40 bucks for the ticket, points off your license, and then the insurance premium hike. So, ya I would say that spending the 200 is worth it.
boomer on November 21, 2007 at 11:16 PM
Oh thanks a lot for that mind numbing statement. Jeezus H Christmas!
Listen to the VERY VERY beginning of the exchange. Cop demands licence and registration “RIGHT NOW”. Who started the exchange off on the wrong foot?!?!? HMMMM????
That PUNK cop probably JUST got his taser and had been ITCHING to use it. And don’t give me the “trained professional” crap. The PUNK cop was looking for a reason to use his new toy. Bet he went home and bragged about the “life threatening” situation he had to “face down” that day.
The driver was backing away from someone he thought was a nut case AND HE WAS RIGHT. That PUNK cop is a NUT CASE. Barney Fife should NEVER have asked the driver out of the car.(Which the driver COMPLIED WITH!)
Are ALL cops 100% right 100% of the time? Or are you saying that even if they are wrong, you should just COMPLY?
I agree that the driver is lucky to be alive, only because the PUNK NUT CASE did not shoot him. I am sure you’d justify that if it had happened. Right???
Sheep.
Talon on November 21, 2007 at 11:18 PM
The cop botched it.
forest on November 21, 2007 at 11:18 PM
First off,pull over,hands on the wheel,don’t argue with the officer,give him the registration,insurance.
Stay in the vechicle,argue about the 40 mph/sign in court,
and don’t let your wife/or girlfriend come to your assistance,that’s how people get shot,and besides,hopefully,
that’s not how your wife/girlfriend respondes to a lawful
order,unless she’s a moonbat protester who welcomes a test
of civil disobedience.
This is the most dangerous,and stupidist thing you can do
to endanger your family life,but more importantly the police officers life,listen and follow orders.
Can you imagine if this was Irag,and you had a belligerent
french news crew who were h!ll bent on not obeying the
checkpoint,I always say things could be worse.
canopfor on November 21, 2007 at 11:19 PM
Driver turns and walks away ignoring cop’s command.
Cop shooters act the same way.
Should the cop tackle him?
Both of them end up in traffic.
We’ve all seen cruiser cam video of cops getting hit by cars.
Tase the douche while staying safely on the shoulder of the road – makes sense to me.
Why scuffle with the belligerent ass?
Stephen M on November 21, 2007 at 11:20 PM
I meant to add:
On the ticket, it says you can appear in court…to fight it if you want. Signing it is not an admission of guilt. But NOT signing it refusal to “post bond”…in which case, you would be brought in, spend the night in jail, and have a court date most likely the next day.
JetBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:20 PM
Your husband was tasered for being an A-hole. Have a nice day.
The country is going to Hell. His generation, and the generation of most HA readers it seems, have no respect for authority. No respect for the law. They think they get to pick and choose what lawful order they obey. They think they get to argue with a police officer over a speeding citation on the side of the road (and idea how many cops have been killed on the side of the road by passing traffic?). They think they get to be condescending and arrogant toward a lowly police officer. Back in the day that attitude got you a nightstick across the mouth and your false teeth were a reminder for you all all your arrogant friends to respect the law. Luckily for him police officers today are much gentler in dealing with officious a-holes. Of coarse that’s why there such an epidemic of his sort of conduct today. Of coarse the officer will probably be dragged through the mud and disciplined encouraging more idiots to behave in exactly the same way. causing more officers to hesitate to take control of a situation and more dead cops.
TheBigOldDog on November 21, 2007 at 11:22 PM
The cop doesn’t have the best curb-side manner, but I have to side with him. Walking away back to the car when being arrested — and with a taser pointed at him, yet — is a damn stupid thing to do. The motorist was totally non-cooperative when it counted. I wonder if he wasn’t just a tad playing for the camera or acting out a fantasy.
Aardvark on November 21, 2007 at 11:22 PM
I hear ya and thanks for your service.
ronsfi on November 21, 2007 at 11:22 PM
El Guapo:
May your chains rest lightly upon you, and may you never remember and regret that you were once a free man.
You may not disagree with anyone who has authority, or you will face the consequences.
I pity you, and everyone who thinks that way. No wonder we don’t have a lot of Liberty left in the United States. Have you considered joining the EU lately?
Heh.
jefferson101 on November 21, 2007 at 11:22 PM
Tell that to the two dead guys in my town. One appears to have been a crack dealer who was armed. The other was out of his mind fighting ten cops. It has yet to be determined if his mental problem was caused by ingesting chemicals or was natural. In both situations the use of the taser appears justified. In the first situation the cop probably would have been justified in pulling his glock. Tasers killed both guys though.
I’m sticking with my position, Both these guys were jerks but the cop is trained to keep things under control (or should have been). What if the cop had used a calmer approach to this guy and had talked to him a bit? He didn’t. He threw his authority in the face of a little man with a problem with authority and the situation got out of control. I looked for an answer to the signing the ticket question with MS. Dewey (a really hot version of Ask Jeeves) and didn’t get anywhere. If it was not an arrestable offense to refuse to sign a ticket then this cop should be in big trouble.
peacenprosperity on November 21, 2007 at 11:23 PM
Talon
Thanks for proving my point.
Bomb Doctor on November 21, 2007 at 11:24 PM
Talon Sorry, but JetBoy i think has it right.
That cop told him immediately why he pulled him over, and the kid tried to BS the cop, thus re reply “Right now!”.
That kid should not have refused to sign it, and definitely NOT walk away from a cop arresting you. Obey the law. If the law is wrong then sue. At least then you wont be tasered or physically taken down.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:25 PM
He did the smart thing. If you get a ticket, you run the risk of paying higher insurance rates for 3 to 5 years. Some tickets NEVER go off your record. Here, if you have three tickets on your record at any time in a 3 year period, you have to pay up to $300 bucks per ticket to get your registration renewed or you are blocked from doing so.
How many of you have forgotten at any time to renew your registration or put your new insurance card in your wallet or renew your drivers license? Thats 3 tickets right there in a single stop. Some courts will dismiss them if you get them renewed, some won’t. That $40 dollar ticket can end up costing you thousands. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times.
GoodBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:26 PM
I feel very strongly that the proper forum for arguing the law is best done in a courtroom, not on the side of the highway.
Adam on November 21, 2007 at 11:27 PM
Would you rather he find out once the guy got to the truck and then see if he had a gun?
Also notice the guy put the truck in reverse.
- The Cat
MirCat on November 21, 2007 at 11:27 PM
When the Utah Highway Patrol says, “jump,” you say, “How high?”
You got that, son?
Ali-Bubba on November 21, 2007 at 11:28 PM
P.S. How did this get on youtube?
MirCat on November 21, 2007 at 11:28 PM
Boy, they have it easy in Utah. Where I live (LA), both man and wife would have shot at the cop. But I suppose that there was no possibility of that happening in Utah. /sarcasm
It’s better here for cops than it is in Philly.
Free Mumia! (Relax; that’s sarcasm, too.)
baldilocks on November 21, 2007 at 11:28 PM
Man some of you are in for some real trouble the day you decide to cop an attitude with a police officer, mouth off and ignore his commands. You are in for some real trouble. More trouble than higher insurance rates I assure you.
There’s a process involved in disputing a ticket and does not include giving a police officer the verbal finger and ignoring his commands….
TheBigOldDog on November 21, 2007 at 11:29 PM
Sums it up for me pretty well.
I still think the cop escalated the situation from the beginning and was trigger happy in the end. Suspend the cop for a few days. I know it’s rare, but tasers do kill. This would be a different story if the kids heart would have stopped. Give him his ticket and if he doesn’t want to sign it fine. Let him go down the road and everyone can meet at the courthouse later. As soon as the cop ordered him out of his car.. trouble.
Ordinary1 on November 21, 2007 at 11:29 PM
That punk acts like one of my middle school students.
What did I do??????
Mojave Mark on November 21, 2007 at 11:30 PM
Refusing to sign a ticket does not equal “refusing to follow instruction”.
The cop ef’d up.
forest on November 21, 2007 at 11:30 PM
Typical Utah cowboy cop trying to make a name for himself. This is just one example of hundreds of incidents on Utah highways.
The man was not leaving, he just refused to sign the ticket. That in itself is not a crime, normal cops just write on the ticket that you refused to sign. Simple as that. The cop pulled the taser and the man instinctively backed up and by the way the UHP cop lied at the end. The man was facing him.
Nothing will probably happen to the UHP. Its a good ole boys club and nothing ever happens in the way of discipline.
Sammy316 on November 21, 2007 at 11:30 PM
Talon on November 21, 2007 at 11:30 PM
You had one?
Talon on November 21, 2007 at 11:32 PM
You got it!
forest on November 21, 2007 at 11:32 PM
Interesting.
Yeah the guy was being obtuse, but not to the extent the cop should have escalated that fast.
Later in the video, he told his wife that he was tasered because he was placing him under arrest and her husband turned around. The cop never said anything about placing him under arrest before he pulled his taser.
Anybody else notice the cops car was slowing down and then in front of the 40mph sign? It seems plausible the guy actually did not see the sign if the cops car was blocking it.
At the end of the video, the cop seems to be downplaying to the other cop what went on, then claimed the guy was “jumping around” as if the guy was really excited.
…over not signing a ticket and asking questions…
Taser them both…twice.
91Veteran on November 21, 2007 at 11:33 PM
No one her has defended the idiot drivers actions and no one has advocated disobeying a police officer. We are discussing one specific incident.
peacenprosperity on November 21, 2007 at 11:33 PM
P.S. The guy was acting like a jerk, but the cop did escalate the issue when he had him step out of the car.
P.P.S. This is coming from a guy that twice almost a cop pull a gun on him. I’m mellower now.
MirCat on November 21, 2007 at 11:36 PM
Yeah, it is. Refusal to sign is refusal to “post bond”…in this case, your word (signature) would be your bond. Refusal to sign means you’ll be brought into the station and you’ll have to post a monetary bond (usually around $50). Then it’s court the next day.
The officer did nothing unusual, and nothing wrong.
JetBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:36 PM
The “other means of controlling” this JACKASS were indeed unreasonable because the officer asked him to put his hands behind his back and he refused.
What was the officer to do, jump on him and wrestle with this idiot in the highway? Use his baton? What? Shoot him? Tazing was the best option.
Taze the bitch, I say.
There is nothing wrong with what this officer did, at all.
Metro on November 21, 2007 at 11:38 PM
I have! Muslims burning cars and killing innocent people over newspaper cartoons and muslims killed while resisting arrest (they electrocuted themselves on a power station they tresspassed in while fleeing). Yah, I want that kind of complacency and appeasement. That is waht happens when the law goes unenforced for too long. It becomes common place, the norm, and when it does finally get enforced people think it is abuse of power because they arent used to the rules or laws being enforced.
We have more liberty than any other country, so far. Unless you break the law, you have no fear – look at all those people who assaulted conservative speakers at universities (actually that is breeaking the law).
peacenprosperity the cop did try to talk to him. but he argued and then walked away (resisted arrest). I am mournful of any accidental death. People die from playing football and running marathons too. It is impossible to predict medical conditions, even if it is your own. End of story: don’t resist arrest, especially over something stupid like a speeding ticket.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:38 PM
Hmmm… I believe you’re right (as I stated earlier) that signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt, because you decide later whether you want to contest it or not… However I don’t agree that you’re basically “arrested” once pulled over. Could be different in the state where your dad was a cop, but I’m pretty clear being pulled over for speeding, or running a stop sign, etc. is just making a “traffic violation”, which is not a “crime”.
Anyway, as I said, he kid should have just signed it, because it’s not an admission of guilt, and like it or not he’ll have to contest it in court, not on the street. But the cop was out of control in this case.
By the way, in case it wasn’t clear why I suggested possibly banning you… it’s because you were wishing death on this cop. I believe you said you hoped he died in a fire. This reflects badly on the site, just like Kos and HuffPo commenters’ death wishes reflect badly on them. The difference there is that it’s par for the course on their sites. You might spend a little time there, you’d likely be happier. They hate cops too, because somehow they link it to “Bush’s police state”. Go have a ball, but don’t make your idiotic comments here that will make all of us look bad.
RightWinged on November 21, 2007 at 11:38 PM
Let me say this one more time. I worked in traffic court for 8 years. If you start flapping your jaws the cops WILL remember you and the details of the ticket. He can and will write what you said on his copy of the ticket that the D.A and judge will see… and use against you.
Arguing with the cop and running your mouth will only hurt you. Is that clear?
GoodBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:39 PM
peacenprosperity
I’ll say it again. I heard this in my court appearance (i did not resist arrest, i took the ticket and tried to fight it, like a smart person)
Idiocy and ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law nor does it excuse you.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:41 PM
Talon:
Dead on.
What kind of mindset does it take to say “Always do whatever the Officer tells you to do”?
Just like the girls in Saudi Arabia, who got sent back into the burning building because they didn’t have their Burquahs on. The Officer is always right!
It’s getting bad when even somewhere like this has as many people who are willing to roll over and say “Please use Vaseline” to anyone who has a badge and a gun.
“Ve haf vays uf making you sign the papers!” I guess some folks like that. But if you’ll excuse me, I can’t partake of that particular submissive ritual most days.
And the chorus from the other side says “BAAAAAAAA”!
“We have sown the wind…” to quote Jerry Pournelle.
jefferson101 on November 21, 2007 at 11:42 PM
Turn your back and walk away from a police officer? He got what he had coming. What a dope.
csdeven on November 21, 2007 at 11:43 PM
You ever get the feeling all of the lefty moles just blew their cover on this thread?
I especially like the ones who make this a case of the officer being a power-mad, intimidation thug. He is a bad cop for exercising his legally bestowed authority upon a violator. It is his duty to follow through and complete his duty, our perception of his “attitude” notwithstanding. He did not subdue this man because of the speeding, nor for the belligerance. He failed to submit to a lawful order.
I know this just stings at the heart of the enlightened and entitled, but there is such a thing as citizenship and responsibility as a member of society; perhaps they don’t teach it these days in school. We had it. One of the lessons was that as a citizen of the United States of America, we had many responsibilities, one of which was to obey the laws and those chosen by the collective will of the people to enforce them. That goes from the top to the bottom of the law enforcement list. This is why, no matter how Bill Clinton disgusted me, I never claimed that he “wasn’t MY president”. We either respect the law, or we’re nothing. We don’t like the law, God help me but we have plenty of lawyers and action groups willing to welcome you into the fold, one of which has got to be your particular flavor of indignation. But (and listen close, slow learners) YOU DON’T RESIST ARREST! HOLLYWOOD IS LYING TO YOU! IT DOESN”T WORK! Pain, jail time and abject humiliation await all of you neo-anarchists who yearn to be abused by police for the sake of saying “Hmph! Told you I was right!” What satisfaction that must give you as Big Tony makes you his girlfriend. I’ll bet Cindy Sheehan will send you an autographed picture to hang in your cell.
Was the officer wrong or right? The side of the road, not the place to make your case. You shut the hell up so as not to give him more to charge you with and you go to court. If you’re on the west coast, I hear they have plenty of sympathetic judges for you. But now? You’re the guy who the officer will testify (with video to back it up) that failed to submit. Whether he gets a departmental reprimand is irrelevent to you now having to go to court and face charges as well. Because you couldn’t man up and take your medicine.
Texan on November 21, 2007 at 11:43 PM
That’s what I was wondering.
I wonder what some of the reactions would be if the driver “looked” more dangerous.
The sad part is, stuff like this will get even tasers taken away, or at the very least they will be nerfed to the point of uselessness. Things will just get more dangerous for other cops, like they aren’t bad enough already. Then the judges release the psychos early and they go on to murder a young couple…
Still, I’d like to see MLB issue the umpires some low wattage (or is it volts, I can never remember) tasers.
reaganaut on November 21, 2007 at 11:44 PM
Yeah, for those of you bashing this Police Officer, tell me how this incident is not the same as this current asshat.
You morons are so quick to bash those that are defending you.
Bomb Doctor on November 21, 2007 at 11:44 PM
The kind of mind set that obeys the law.
- The Cat
P.S. The cop was not telling him to do anything illegal or immoral.
MirCat on November 21, 2007 at 11:44 PM
Oops, sorry, I didn’t realize the site also had porn, I block that.
Bomb Doctor on November 21, 2007 at 11:45 PM
I disagree, until some one pulls up the actual law for that state. By ignoring the officer and walking away, that is resisting arrest. Since the officer was alone at that time (or apparantly so), a Taser may be justified according to that state’s SOPs.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Did we watch the same video? The cop was a dick to the driver from the get go. There was never going to be professional behavior on the cops part, on this day he showed no skills for controlling or defusing this situation. I would like to see if this guy has had any complaints filed against him. My money is on the affirmative. This reminds me of that situation with the girl a month or so ago. The cop was picking up some kid and she resisted. He kept calm and continuously tried to talk sense into her while trying to restrain her. Finally she bit the crap out of him, he belted her, pepper sprayed her, and then went back to talking in a calming tone once she was cuffed and under control. That cop showed restraint and control in a very bad situation.
peacenprosperity on November 21, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Kid, you’re way off and too stupid to realize it.
reaganaut on November 21, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Bend over and enjoy the ride?
From what you say most cops must be maniacal, spiteful creeps. I had never considered police officers that way.
peacenprosperity on November 21, 2007 at 11:48 PM
My dad was on a local force, in Connecticut. This is probably a state trooper (given the highway and all) and yes, laws like this can and do vary from state to state…but generally, you are “arrested” when you’re pulled over for a speeding violation. In the officer’s eyes, you’ve broken the law, and have been “detained”.
But like you said, you can fight it in court. Most of the time, the fine will probably be reduced if you show up.
JetBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:48 PM
Understood. But will he write what HE said or did on the ticket? NOPE.
I’m not about bashing our law enforcement officials. They have a tough job that can and too often does end in a tragedy. That does not excuse them from poor behavior however and this cop behaved poorly.
Badge, ticket book and taser does not equal SUPREME OVERLORD.
Talon on November 21, 2007 at 11:49 PM
You are correct. But because someone is being a jerk is no excuse to break the law.
- The Cat
MirCat on November 21, 2007 at 11:50 PM
I was thinking the same thing, but couldn’t hear the audio clear enough to hear if he asked for consent from the woman.
91Veteran on November 21, 2007 at 11:51 PM
You are in for some real trouble if you don’t smarten up.
You comply with an Officers instructions and fight your case where it is meant to be fought, in court. You start ignoring a police officers commands and you are going to learn the hard way like this self important moron.
You’re extremely niave. The cop has no idea who you are, what you are on, what your intentions are and whether or not you present a danger to his life. Lots of police officers are killed every year in routine traffic stops by whacked out nut jobs. You start arguing and moving about outside the vehicle and ignoring clear directions even when he draws his weapon you are in for a serious life lesson.
TheBigOldDog on November 21, 2007 at 11:52 PM
Now get your ass to jail!
/Officer Cartman
Bad Candy on November 21, 2007 at 11:53 PM
The threat to this officer lies not in any movement toward the officer but what it would have taken for this officer to apprehend the driver.
Do you really want our peace officers wrasslin’ with the public with guns, pepper spray, and tasers strapped to their belts? Yeah, no chance the perp gets the upper hand and uses the weapons back on the officer or innocent bystanders. Nah, that would never happen.
But hey, if the cops are that untrustworthy, how about we just have NO cops? Would that make some of you libetarians happy? ANARCHY BABY!!!!!!! LET’S GO!!!!
Ponderous.
Metro on November 21, 2007 at 11:53 PM
Yes, I do. Police and Corrections.
I know what pressures cops can be under. He probably beats his wife and kids.
Kini on November 21, 2007 at 11:55 PM
Notice I am discussing facts not feelings.
peacenprosperity Even if hte cop is a bigger dick than Michael Savage in a yelling rant, the driver haws to obey the law. He can take down the badge # and file a complaint. I’ve done it. It works.BTW, if i was acop, and I am in some capacity in guarding bases and assets, if anyone bites me while resisting arrest, I WILL pepper spray or tase you. That is better than me physically beating you down into submission. For that little girl, she should not have bit him. By taking the time to think he showed restraint in deciding to use pepper spray instead of punching her or roughing her up.
I got pepper sprayed, many times in training, it does suck, but it sure as hell is better than physical beating somoen into submission.
El Guapo on November 21, 2007 at 11:55 PM
I am really in disbelief that so many on this thread side with this cop. I’m SHOCKED really. . . more than the Taser guy. I guess you guys think the cop should taser the guy as soon as he pulls them over.
The speed limit sign was TEMPORARY and MOVABLE. The cop car was a HAZARD sitting right in front of the speed limit sign. The cop TOLD THE DRIVER TO GET OUT OF THE CAR, and HE DID. The cop NEVER TOLD THE GUY HOW FAST HE WAS GOING after being asked repeatedly.
The guy was not ‘running back to his car’. It was a reflex action because the cop had just pointed his taser gun at the TAX PAYING citizen. Like ducking when someone punches you. This kid was in disbelief that the cop had pulled his taser gun.
The kid had to ASK to be read his rights and never was. The cop performed an ILLEGAL search of the vehicle (4th amendment?)
I just can’t believe anyone here thinks that this cop did a good job here. He was in charge and the situation would have been different if THE COP had handled it differently. The COP handled this situation where he was in total control wrong.
I don’t think the citizen did anything wrong. I think the cop did a whole lot wrong. The cop was the idiot, but he was in control and had weapons. He did not ‘protect and serve’ in this instance. He agitated and bullied.
ThackerAgency on November 21, 2007 at 11:55 PM
The funny thing is, if this dope was polite, respectful and apologetic from the beginning he probably would have got off with a warning….
TheBigOldDog on November 21, 2007 at 11:55 PM
A badge does not make you God. I am pretty sure, in this case, the driver could have, and should have, refused to get out of his car.
I used to work at the court, with a law clerk who knew the traffic law very well, because he would volunteer as a pro tem judge on the side. He didn’t take ANY crap from police, and he would even at times call them names and insult them when they got out of line. He never got a ticket, let alone arrested, because the police realized that he knew the law and he would raise hell if they forced the issue.
Police are not above the law. If you refuse to comply, this is not automatically illegal or wrong. Obviously, if a police officer instructed you to pleasure him orally, you wouldn’t comply because this is clearly outside of his authority, right? The same is true in ANY case where the officer does not have the law on his side when he commands you to do something. You can say no. If the officer starts to use force, resisting is probably not a good idea, because if the officer was wrong, you will be a lot better off suing him than you would be if you defended yourself physically.
It is pretty obvious that the officer used his taser far too quickly, without justification. Heads will roll and the civil lawsuit will make some lawyer rich.
kaltes on November 21, 2007 at 11:57 PM
A bit of a power trip by the officer, and the tazer definitely used prematurely. But the way things were going, he would have had to use the tazer about a minute from when he actually used it, as the smartass driver was being increasingly confrontational.
AlexB on November 21, 2007 at 11:57 PM
I agree 100%. My position is that this cop acted in an unprofessional manner from the start. His behavior caused the incident to escalate and get out of control. If he had takled the guy and cuffed him I still would feel the same. This was a no win situation for everyone and the cop had the most power to control that.
peacenprosperity on November 21, 2007 at 11:57 PM
The guy did not do anything to be placed under arrest. Wow, I guess I’m in the wrong place if most of the people here think this cop did a good thing here.
ThackerAgency on November 21, 2007 at 11:58 PM
So to sum up GoodBoy’s point “It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.”
All this fool had to do was quietly take the ticket then fight it in court and no one would be put in this confrontal situation?
Wow! what a novel concept! /sarcasm
We can all agree that this officer was very touchy here, but riddle me this batman if this fool had just taken his ticket, fought it in court, and had it dismissed would this incident have even taken place?
The answer for those playing at home is “no.”
There is a lesson in there…somewhere.
Mich_93 on November 21, 2007 at 11:58 PM
I don’t know what it is…I find myself at odds with so many of your posts in so many threads.
But here… that post …you have really got to be kidding. The cop told the guy to pu his hands behind his back. He refused, and walked away after repeatedly being told to stop.
He very well could have been going to his car for a gun. It’s not like that has never happened before…
The driver got exactly what he had coming to him.
JetBoy on November 21, 2007 at 11:59 PM
It’s a good thing there wasn’t a Chihuahua in the vehicle, or he’d have had to shoot it, too.
JBT’s are JBT’s. If you can’t see them being wrong, you need to move to California with the LAPD, and grin. If this is a right wing response to something like this, I guess I’d best reconsider voting for Ron Paul.
If most of the responses I see here are what the Republicans think, I’m probably in the wrong place.
jefferson101 on November 22, 2007 at 12:00 AM
Alarmingly I’m in agreement with you jefferson101
ThackerAgency on November 22, 2007 at 12:03 AM
Exactly! The cop should have issued a ticket and been on his way.
You’re watching a control freak, freak out.
Kini on November 22, 2007 at 12:03 AM
I’ll say it again,
You on the other hand seem to be extrapolating this to all police officers and intimating that due to the danger of their positions they should never be questioned about their behavior.
Sorry, I don’t want to live in a country where the police are omnipotent and the last time I looked I don’t.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 12:04 AM
And I agree with that 100%. I guess my comments are in responce to many commenters here thinking that the guy pulled over didn’t do anything wrong either.
My conclusion on the whole thing.
1. Driver was asking for trouble by tring to play chess with the law. Even if the officer was professional he probably would have gotten arrested anyway. (doesn’t mean go ahead and tase him anyway, but just saying I think he had it comming)
2. The officer should be fired or put behind a desk simply because he can’t handle situations. Give him time and he’ll get himself shot.
- The Cat
MirCat on November 22, 2007 at 12:04 AM
They’re both wrong. They both allowed the situation to escalate, but I place more responsibility on the officer. As the authority and as a professional, he could have and should have done more to prevent the situation from escalating. I hope that at the very least he’s rethinking how he handled this – for his safety and others.
cyrano on November 22, 2007 at 12:06 AM
3. I have lost all skills when it comes to grammar and spelling.
MirCat on November 22, 2007 at 12:06 AM
Bingo. We have a winner.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 12:07 AM
What don’t you get? The cop can’t “be on his way” unless the driver signs the ticket. And he didn’t.
JetBoy on November 22, 2007 at 12:07 AM
Be careful, Big Dog will call the police on you!
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 12:08 AM
That’s right he won’t.. see? YOU LOSE. If a cop truly goes over the edge.. then make a well thought out and calm complaint to his higher ups. The complaints will be registered. If the cop is bad, he will be found out eventually. If he’s out of control in public then chances are he ain’t too well liked by other officers, he will make enemies on the force. Being mentally unbalanced doesn’t turn itself off and on at will.
You HAVE RESOURCES to get satisfaction for being wronged. Arguing with the cops on the side of a road isn’t it.
Cops DO get in trouble and written up for infractions.
GoodBoy on November 22, 2007 at 12:08 AM
I think the tazer was over the top. Watching the video, I see no sign other than the tazer that the cop believed he was in danger, before or AFTER he tazered the driver. If he really believed he was in danger enough to warrant a tazer, why did he just cuff the guy, then turn his back on him? Not only did he not put the guy in his cruiser, he didn’t even tell him to stay down. The guy was able to stand up and walk up behind the officer without the officer realizing he was there. To me, that says the officer didn’t actually see him as a threat.
I realize that a situation like that can turn deadly fast, and I can’t really put myself in the officer’s place to know what I would/should do, but I can tell that the officer showed signs that he wasn’t really concerned for his own safety, and he was obviously in a bad mood from the start.
It seems like after the officer cooled down a little and the other officer showed up, he realized he screwed up. It looked like he searched the guy’s seat in desperation just hoping to find some sort of weapon so he could claim the guy was going for it. Then he exaggerated what happened to the other cop, which also shows he realized he did something wrong.
frost on November 22, 2007 at 12:08 AM
We’re in agreement on the court thing, and that signing the ticket isn’t admission of guilt, etc. etc. But I still can’t really agree about the “you’ve broken the law part”. Speeding, running a stop sign, etc. are not misdemeanors of felonies. They simply aren’t crimes, they’re “traffic violations”. Now, perhaps the situation requires a cop treat them as crimes in certain cases, but I’m not really clear why you’d need to “bond” out of something that isn’t a crime.
Didn’t Allah post essentially what the law says, above?
RightWinged on November 22, 2007 at 12:09 AM
You seem to think refusing to comply with a lawful order and walking away from a police officer after he has instructed you several times to put your hands behind your back, and then draws his weapon when you again fail to comply, and gives you one last chance to be cooperative somehow constitutes a reasonable response. I’m telling you, that attitude can get you in serious trouble at best and hurt at worst. That’s reality.
TheBigOldDog on November 22, 2007 at 12:09 AM
Then, he should have called for backup and waited.
It’s on the tax payers dime and he’s on the clock.
There wouldn’t be a need to escalate the situation.
Both are wrong. His training should have taught him that.
Kini on November 22, 2007 at 12:10 AM
Man, I’m glad San Jose PD is as professional as they are. The officer did use excessive force, IMO, but the dude should’ve shut the f**k up! Don’t say anything and take it to the Judge/commissioner and argue it there in the proper forum. DON’T SAY ANYTHING! DON’T ADMIT TO ANYTHING! COMPLY WITH INSTRUCTIONS BUT DON’T CONSEND TO ANY SEARCHES!
liquidflorian on November 22, 2007 at 12:10 AM
I’ve watched a lot of COPS (bad boys, bad boys, watcha gonna do…) and from what I’ve seen there, you can not ignore a cops direct order.
It would have been nice if he’d been a lot calmer (the cop) but once the guy ignored him twice and was sauntering back toward his car, there was a threat. Had this “nice couple” actually been bad guys, the wife could have handed the husband a gun through the car window and blamo! No more cop.
Sounds crazy until you see one of these stops where someone has a gun under the front seat or in the glove box. That and the fact that cops really do get shot on stops like this.
I’m with the cop on this one.
John on November 22, 2007 at 12:10 AM
Okay i watched it again. The cop had his taser pulled out and pointed at the guy. And he still walked away. Physical show of force, and then blatant noncompliance to that show of force (and his orders) and resisting arrest,……. you do the math.
El Guapo on November 22, 2007 at 12:11 AM
Hmmm ….
A lot of assumptions are being made here.
In jurisdictions where you are expected to sign for a ticket, you are providing proof that you have received a court summons.
Yes, you have the right to not sign.
The proper procedure for people who refuse to sign is to arrest them, take them downtown, and arraign them before a judge.
The judge then orders the idiot to appear at the court date, and then cuts him loose if he thinks he will appear.
The driver didn’t figure out that he was under arrest until he got zapped for disobeying an order while under arrest.
Kristopher on November 22, 2007 at 12:13 AM
Sorry, that doesn’t fly with me. I have a hard time believing the manual says, “If the elderly woman refuses to sign her ticket, place her in restraints and place her in the rear of your vehicle. Call in other units to witness your arrest. transport the dangerous granny down to the station and spend the afternoon processing her correctly.” Government doesn’t make a whole lot of sense but it would seem pretty crazy to tie up police officers because someone does not want to sign a ticket. If the signing of the ticket is not an admission of guilt how someone not signing somehow invalidating the police officers integrity?
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 12:14 AM
I’m sorry but you are either not reading the posts or are just unable to comprehend them.
peacenprosperity on November 22, 2007 at 12:17 AM
Gotta’ disagree.
First, the driver was NEVER impolite nor disrespectful. Unless you call asking WHY you were pulled over impolite and disrespectful.
Second, why would or should one apologize for something that they believe they are being falsely accused of? Would not an apology be an admission of guilt? Caught on tape too AND admissible in court. “How do you plead?” …..”Not guilty your Honor.”……Here’s the tape of you apologizing for doing the thing you just plead not guilty to.
We all remember Rodney King. That jerk got what was coming to him. He wanted a fight and he got one.
No way the cop in this instance reacted REMOTELY professional. HE was the one itching for a fight. Not the driver.
Talon on November 22, 2007 at 12:18 AM
One solitary sentence from a 9-Page Use-of-Force Policy & Procedure, and you inflect that the State Trooper exceeded his authority, out in the middle of the desert with his backup miles and more than a few minutes away.
Shill, or not AllahP?
Contained in the other 9-pages is the vast repertoire of Political Correctness runamok that has to be learned, and tuned up from time to time, by the Trooper. That’s not counting the entire REST of the P&P Manual covering everything from grooming to when you can use the crapper, from how you drive your patrol vehicle to what reports you must and musn’t take based on a State Penal Code 2x the diameter and 3x the thickness of the whole bible. You have no idea how thick a P&P manual is for Law Enforcement Officers across the country.
It all boils down to common sense. Within the Use of Force P&P section you will no doubt find an authorization to deploy Less than Lethal force based on a subjects stance and demeanor. Pregnant wife or not, stressed or not, that subject is an adult and most certainly assumed the stance and demeanor in a face to face confrontation with the Trooper.
The Trooper’s initial contact was conducive to a non-eventful routine traffic stop, but the subject driver couldn’t just easily deal with the reality of the situation, complied, and driven on. He had to ‘question authority’ right off the bat. Cops won’t discuss the reason for the stop until legal photo identification, at the minimum, is provided by the driver.
The driver eventually complies, then when he learns he’ll get a ticket, he refuses to sign it. The law provides that if a driver refuses to sign a traffic summons, he shall be arrested and taken before a magistrate forthwith. The Trooper was doing exactly that. When the Trooper had the driver exit the vehicle, and he told the driver to turn around and put his hands behind his back, whether ignorant of the law or not, the driver assumed a confrontational posture, out in the middle of nowhere. He just as easily could have complied, and after the reality finally sank in, he could have complied and told the Trooper he’d rather sign the summons. The Trooper most likely would have taken off the handcuffs, given him a lecture as the traffic summons was being signed, and sent everyone on their merry way.
The driver began walking towards the vehicle as if to leave a lawful traffic stop. BIGTIME NO-NO. The Trooper ordered him to stop, the driver hesitates, and starts walking towards his motor vehicle again. It’s a no-brainer, no matter how distasteful it may seem, that the driver need only have complied.
Ignorance of the law is no defense! Law Enforcement officers have the authority granted them by the State in which they are sworn to keep the peace, to order you around. In essence, yeah, they are the boss of you during a legal contact that is precipitated by a violation of law. Even traffic law. The driver has to know that. The driver was an adult, a grown up, apparently indigenous to the United States where the same truth exists in every State in America.
Regardless, the Trooper will be thrown to the lions in the name of knee-jerk political correctness and appeasement just to satisfy the masses of arm-chair quarterbacks who weren’t there.
Thank God the driver wasn’t black.
SilverStar830 on November 22, 2007 at 12:18 AM
And if he signed the ticket with another name than his own?
Say,… Zebo Kanortz?
He’s got the license, the insurance, is an autograph necessary?
Kini on November 22, 2007 at 12:19 AM
What? As has been said by some others in this thread, the driver should have just signed the ticket, and if he thinks he was wronged, fight it in court.
But the driver decided to disobey the cop right there…and refuse his commands. He may be in the right…and the cop wrong…but he should “tell it to the judge”, not take matters in his own hands and disobey the officer at the scene.
JetBoy on November 22, 2007 at 12:19 AM
So, in other words, you can’t sign for a package from UPS? You know, because it proves you received it? You really can’t be that stupid, can you?
Bomb Doctor on November 22, 2007 at 12:19 AM
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