Yeah, but the Christian fake isn’t AS fake as the LDS fake.

csdeven on November 18, 2007 at 2:21 PM

That’s actually true. All religions have their whacky elements. It wouldn’t be a religion if it didn’t stretch the bounds of belief.

Mormons have stretched those bounds way past the point of nutso.

There are degrees of crazy. And I, for one, do not want some nutjob who thinks he’s going to be a God himself someday anywhere near the Oval Office.

MB4 on November 18, 2007 at 2:13 PM

Yeah, but the Christian fake isn’t AS fake as the LDS fake.

Fulfilled prophecy and the risen Christ prove my beliefs are true and, by the way, rational.
Mojave Mark on November 18, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Still waiting for proof. Is it coming any time soon?

If Romney is elected it will bring the Mormon cult more into the mainstream which would be an eternally bad thing for those people seeking God’s salvation but ending up with a false gospel and a false hope. As St. Paul said in the book of Galatians:

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Paul the Apostle gets it.

I think it would be worse if Hillary gets into the White House so I would vote for Romney if he were the nominee. He would be the lesser of two evils.

Mojave Mark on November 17, 2007 at 3:23 PM

Tell you what, prove your beliefs and I’ll prove there are Quakers on the moon.

Mojave Mark on November 17, 2007 at 11:03 AM

Romney attended 3 universities, ran Bain & Company and Bain Capitol, ran the Olympics, and was the Governor of Massachusetts. Clearly he is a “rational” man. Moreover, his father, George was the Governor of Michigan.

Did Mormons take over Michigan? Massachusetts? Did the LDS church play any role whatsoever in the governance of those states?

What exactly is it that you, and people like EricPWJohnson, think will happen if Romney is elected??

csdeven on November 17, 2007 at 11:46 AM

So do you believe in the people who live on the moon and dress like Quakers? Joseph Smith himself said they’re there.

Mojave Mark on November 17, 2007 at 11:03 AM

Why are any of those crazier than:

1) A being without a body had sex with a virgin and she had a baby
2) A man turns two fish and five loaves into enough food to feed 5 thousand with food left over.
3) A man was made from dust.
4) A woman was made from a rib from dust man.
5) A man was crucified, left in a cave for days, then he came back alive.
6) A man walked on water.
7) He took evil spirits out of a person and put them into a pig.
8) It just so happened on the day this man was crucified, night time decided to happen in the middle of the day at the exact moment of his death.
9) A magical being who is really three people at one time, claims he can be spirit at one second and the next have a body. Them the next minute he can be spirit again. BUT he refuses to explain what he does with his skin suit when he is in spirit form. I guess ha has the Holy Closet and puts the skin suit on a hanger. BUT…NO WIRE HANGERS!!!

With you holding those beliefs, I question whether you are rational enough to be let out in public.

Mormon prophets have taught that:
People live on the moon and dress like Quakers
People live on the sun (no statement about mode of dress)
The American Indians are of Jewish descent
Satan and Jesus are brothers

These are just a few of the plethora of bizarre teachings of the church. To ask if Romney really truly believes stuff like this would be quite relevant as to his state of rationality.

So when is he going to address the issue?
EricPWJohnson on November 17, 2007 at 1:08 AM

Never, because it doesn’t matter to anyone who is intellectually honest.

So when is he going to address the issue?

Lawrence on November 16, 2007 at 10:08 PM

Gibotry has a definition. It is the absolute intolerance of any differing creed etc. Giborty is the mother of false accusations and lies. A person is intolerant of others and then spreads the lies to justify their gibotry.

Look up the definition.

It does’nt matter if I were Hitler reincarnated

The facts are he is a descendant of the founders of the church

Most of his support his millions upon million were financed by Mormons

this campaign is being financed by Mormons

Its relevant – bigger than me and he needs to address it

It appears that now he has by having some of his supporters fake push polling anti mormon stuff for instant headlines and outrage

So now the question is relevant, even more

Fair enough. I hate the gibotry with a passion also.

csdeven on November 16, 2007 at 6:28 PM

Ya know… it is not bigoted of main-stream Christians to label LDS church a cult, because by main-stream definition LDS is a cult. Buy then it is also correct if LDS wants to call main-stream Christianity a cult. The point is that main-stream Christian doctrine and LDS doctrine are most definitely not the same, and both sides of the issue agree on this, so each side claiming that the other is a cult is a true statement.

So, a bigoted statement would be claiming something about one side or the other, which is obviously not true.

A bigoted statement would be claiming that csdeven is a low-life idiot for defending LDS doctrine. A non-bigoted statement would be claiming that csdeven is defending a cult.

The first sentence is bigoted in that I am making a personal attack on csdeven. In the second sentence I am simply making a true statement about LDS doctrine from my point of reference.

The bigotry most often seen here at Hot Air are all the Straw-man arguments based on false definitions of Christianity that are bandied about as truth and then used to mock God, and/or religion in general.

Now, for all us Christians out there, we need to be careful we are not perpetrating the same type of Straw-man nonsense being perpetrated against us. It defeats our purpose and credibility if we stoop to these same tactics.

I came up with questions about Romney himself only a few minutes into investigating.

My thought

Bigkatt on November 16, 2007 at 6:20 PM

Fair enough. I hate the gibotry with a passion also.

Peace and cheers.

-I normally stay out of the religious threads because all they talk about is religion.
-this thread is a political thread and the gibotry leveled toward a candidate is more of an issue for me.

This is all I need to hear. Without explaining you explained quite satisfactorily. My only issue was that you seemed to be exactly what you preached against.

I apologize for getting carried away, but I tend to continue the attack if I believe that I am being ignored. Too often in the past people will post on boards such as this one and ignore any arguments that may marginalize their own.

It has been said that two things not to discuss at the dinner table are politics and religion. However that is all that gets discussed on this site so of course you get the extremes. People also will say things in the anonymity of boards such as this that they would never say in person.

Your defense of Mitt was done so on religious grounds, in a political thread. I simply failed to separate the two.

And no my problem is not a conclusion i wish to meet but rather that I did not understand your point. That Mitt should not be judged for his religion, but on his politics.

Once again I apologize, I allowed my anger at the insane bigotry expressed in the Georgia “pray for rain” thread to color my perception of the world, including the political threads.

Your problem is that you have a conclusion you want to reach and you are looking for evidence only in that light.

But, I’m not going to bother explaining that to you either.

Bigkatt on November 16, 2007 at 3:55 PM

Holy crap. You can infer from my posting habits anything you like and I’m not going to sit here and tell you I normally stay out of the religious threads because all they talk about is religion. I am also not going to explain to you that this thread is a political thread and the gibotry leveled toward a candidate is more of an issue for me. I will also restrain myself from also getting into my defense of Fred and his religious habits.

I will also not go into the history that Eric has of attacking everything LDS. Heis a gibot and in the post just before yours, he confirmed that he was, but tried to justify it. Mitts ancestry has nothing to do with anything. When a well known and respected evangelical endorses Mitt the support and money Mitt gets from other people is a non-issue.

-I like rain dances and need the exercise. Also, I like a lot of Christian music from Bach to Gospel.
The native American belief system and social structure are worth studying, but they ultimately didn’t leave them in a competitive position once Europeans started to arrive. Maybe if they had a “White man go home” dance.
dedalus on November 13, 2007 at 8:30 PM

no reply.

-I don’t know anyone who reveres rain dancers.
Esthier on November 13, 2007 at 8:27 PM

-I live in an area dominated by the Shoshone Bannock tribes. Their traditions are very respected in this part of the country and no one would dare criticize them for exercising those traditions. As a matter of fact they have pageants on the reservation yearly and they are a big hit with everyone.

csdeven on November 13, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Second post, first in response.

-You can appreciate the culture and tradition while pointing out that the philosophy of expecting it to actually be succesful, is flawed.

Resolute on November 13, 2007 at 9:19 PM

-Surly we can, but it seems to me the vitriol is beyond just stating an opinion that it is flawed.

csdeven on November 13, 2007 at 11:06 PM

third post, second in response

-That’s a very unique example. Perhaps your anecdote is only representative of your experience and not those of the nation?
Esthier on November 13, 2007 at 11:12 PM

-I can’t hardly believe that. This country is steeped in the traditions of the native American. They inhabited every part of this country that was inhabitable before we got here. I cannot imagine that there aren’t reservations or a presence of NA’s in every part of this country. Barring Hawaii. If what you are saying is true, and that the disrespect toward an entire people and their traditions is prevalent, then as an American, I am ashamed of that behavior from my fellow Americans.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 8:18 AM

Forth post, third response. Also this is your reply that implies bigotry, and Esthier’s reply to you.

-You are twisting what I said. I never said their traditions were disrespected. I only said that they weren’t necessarily respected. There’s a big difference.

And no, not everyone lives near a reservation, and I don’t just mean people who live on islands.
Esthier on November 14, 2007 at 9:41 AM

And that was it. Apart from your initial post, all the times you were part of that thread, you gave up so fast to all those “bigots and morons defending” them.

That first post seemed to indicate that you were more confused that only Christians were being attacked. Yes it did support the side of “what harm can prayer do?”, but in comparison to threads such as this one, it was extremely tame. There was no condemnation of atheists in that thread as bigots, despite the fact that an argument that that is exactly what they were in those threads was even easier to prove than in these “Mormon” threads.

At one point you say that the vitriol is far and beyond what the subject calls for. Yet if somebody simply makes the theological argument, with out any vitriol, that the Mormons can’t be Christians due to the differences in doctrine you jump out screaming “BIGOT”.