Atheist/theist showdown over rain prayers ends in draw
posted at 10:52 am on November 15, 2007 by Allahpundit
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The polling goes on but the results are in. After a personal appeal to providence from the governor, the rains hath come. But in not enough volume to do much good.
A storm crashed through the Southeast and brought up to an inch of rain in parts of drought-stricken Georgia, but forecasters said the storm likely did little to ease the state’s historic drought.
“The ground probably sucked it all up,” said Vaughn Smith, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Peachtree City. “The ground is so dry, I seriously doubt if any of the lakes rose any.”…
The rainfall came two days after Gov. Sonny Perdue led a prayer service on the steps of the state Capitol to beg the heavens for an end to the drought.
So violent was the storm in Tennessee that it damaged the roof of a, er, Baptist church. If you’re curious, here’s the data on rainfall for select parts of Georgia for each month over the past decade. They have been getting some (more so than in the corresponding months for 2005, in fact) and November in recent years has typically brought greater precipitation so there’s some hope for relief. But check out these two maps. Oof.
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Deaths in Iraq have dropped dramatically. But only because there’s no one left to kill.
JiangxiDad on November 15, 2007 at 10:59 AM
So God is only as effective as the U.S. military? Pretty effective, admittedly, but geez.
Allahpundit on November 15, 2007 at 11:01 AM
Strettttttttch.
JiangxiDad on November 15, 2007 at 11:03 AM
I am praying for random rain.
So that sometimes we’ll have:
1. too much
2. not enough
3. just enough
TheSitRep on November 15, 2007 at 11:03 AM
You see, my God listens to my whims.
Thor rules.
TheSitRep on November 15, 2007 at 11:05 AM
i was waiting for this to come up.
damn hippies.
madmonkphotog on November 15, 2007 at 11:08 AM
Every night I pray the sun will rise in the morning, and God hasn’t let me down yet! (He seems a bit more fickle about the Adrienne Lima thing, though…)
Blacklake on November 15, 2007 at 11:09 AM
Why do you worship this guy again? Can’t you see he just likes jerking you around.
liberrocky on November 15, 2007 at 11:11 AM
It doesn’t say much for us as a species that we _still_ are having these disputes.
FFS *sigh*
Ochlan on November 15, 2007 at 11:12 AM
Dude, Thor is just an Asgard hologram.
Weight of Glory on November 15, 2007 at 11:13 AM
If prayer can’t help you. There is always this!
kiakjones on November 15, 2007 at 11:15 AM
God is a troll?
JiangxiDad on November 15, 2007 at 11:16 AM
He’s too busy finding parking spaces for those praying for them. That’s why I never ask for anything that’s not important.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on November 15, 2007 at 11:19 AM
Has Al Gore consumed less water at his Tenn. home to help with the drought?
JiangxiDad on November 15, 2007 at 11:23 AM
God probably just doesn’t care. Or more to the point, realizes that there still is water, just not enough to be gluttonous with lawn waterings and half-hour showers.
There are others perishing from thirst this day…
This red meat is graying with a thin slimy coat.
mojowire on November 15, 2007 at 11:23 AM
This reminds me of when I was a little girl growing up on the farm in Saskatchewan. After some very lean years, our neighbour, a Christian older woman, prayed for a foot of rain. And that’s exactly the amount of rain we got that summer. The farmers were very very happy that year.
That still sticks with me as what the prayers of a truly righteous person can do.
mjk on November 15, 2007 at 11:25 AM
It would have rained more except for all those athiests praying that it not rain so they could prove God doesn’t exist.
Buzzy on November 15, 2007 at 11:36 AM
While your kind God is busy smiting tens of thousands of children in the world with Leukemia, MS, AIDS etc. The Georgia Rednecks want him to stop all that fun and pay attention to their water shortage.
Of all the nerve.
TheSitRep on November 15, 2007 at 11:36 AM
I, Prophet of the Indianapolis Colts, do hereby reveal that on Saturday Atlanta will have a high of 63*F and a low of 43*F, under partly cloudy skies. The Colts god tells me also that there is a 20% chance of rain that day. Thus, there will be rain. Maybe.
Prophet has spoken!
Vizzini on November 15, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Ahh, good. Christian bashing! The one group you can attack with impunity.
I’ll pray for y’all while I pray for rain. Tennessee is hard hit too.
Tennman on November 15, 2007 at 11:45 AM
Dude, you just said ass guard.
saint kansas on November 15, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Pretty sure it’s governor-bashing, unless summoning up rain through group participation is a part of Christian theology. Apparently not part of my sect.
Vizzini on November 15, 2007 at 11:49 AM
I am not bashing Christians! Christian Bale was awesome in Batman Begins!
liberrocky on November 15, 2007 at 11:50 AM
It’s just as you said. Rain or no rain, it won’t disprove God, since Christians understand that the answer can be no.
By that same logic, rain or no rain, it doesn’t necessarily prove God exists.
Esthier on November 15, 2007 at 11:50 AM
The rainy season isn’t over yet. I think it’s awesome they had a prayer gathering, and I believe that when people come before God in humility and desperation, things shift. I’ve seen it before, and I’ll see it again.
Jared White on November 15, 2007 at 12:10 PM
So what does this prove?
1) Nothing.
2) There is a God, but it is a puny god.
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 12:16 PM
I know, before you EVEN correct me, Allah, that I should just move on to another thread, rather than comment…But..
I get SO tired of these Athiest/Thiest threads. As if there was going to be a solution EVER. It’s just yet another opportunity for the militant Athiests to taunt/ridicule the Christians for “stupidly” believing in something higher than themselves, and the higher-than-thou Christians to annoy the Athiests with sentimental anecdotes and Bible verses. This will only be settled at ONE time…death. The animosity that these cause are hardly worth it, because it’s never a true debate. Only a theoretical pissing contest.
Rant over. Sorry, Allah.
tickleddragon on November 15, 2007 at 12:20 PM
According to the View’s Joy Behar, praying for rain is bad but praying for a solution to global warming is good.
Queasy on November 15, 2007 at 12:23 PM
Maybe they should wait a couple of weeks and then pray directly to the Asgard. Then compare results.
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 12:25 PM
because in the latter you pray to Gore.
JiangxiDad on November 15, 2007 at 12:26 PM
It may be that there is a God, but no life after death.
Then the cosmic joke would be on everyone.
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Nah, man. It’s just called prayer. Nothing to get excited about. No one’s sacrificed a virgin — and, yes, the South does have them — or danced a rain dance. It’s just prayer. Supplication. Communication.
Tennman on November 15, 2007 at 12:28 PM
Agreed. Only Batman movie worth watching.
Tennman on November 15, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Don’t overlook Batman Returns, Devito, Walken, Michelle P. Come on that was pretty good.
liberrocky on November 15, 2007 at 12:32 PM
I keep praying that I’ve seen my very last uber-lame atheists versus Christians thread at HotAir.
The woeful lack of results of said prayers have convinced me that there is indeed no God.
Or, alternatively, that He’s just too busy helping people win Oscars and score touchdowns to help a brutha out. It’s called multi-tasking, God. Google it.
Professor Blather on November 15, 2007 at 12:33 PM
I think the fact that the Christians were praying for rain was pretty weak. Why does an omnipotent god need rain in order to solve a drought? An omnipotent god could just create water out of nothing if he wanted to or cared. He could do it without humans praying because he would know what humans needed before even the humans knew themselves what they need it. Face it, Christians: praying for rain is primitive, stupid, superstitious garbage.
Loundry on November 15, 2007 at 12:35 PM
tickledragon-
AmenRight on,brotherpal. I thought I was the only one feeling that way. There comes a time for Christians to dust off their feet. Because what we’re selling, ain’t nobody here buying. I’ll stick to the politics and freaky deaky threads.Matticus Finch on November 15, 2007 at 12:36 PM
San. Diego. Chargers.
That musta hurt. Are you sure you’re saying your prayers right?
Professor Blather on November 15, 2007 at 12:36 PM
Only if nothing else was on. I stand by my original agreement with you. Batman Begins is the only one worth watching.
Tennman on November 15, 2007 at 12:36 PM
I am not bashing Christians! Christian Bale was awesome in Batman Begins!
liberrocky
What is he not awesome in? I see Christian Bale, and I know I’m getting a movie. The Prestige rocked. It also had WOLVERINE and David Bowie. You don’t get much better than that.
Krydor on November 15, 2007 at 12:40 PM
Any movie with Michelle Pfeiffer in it is worth watching.
And any movie that features her in a skintight leather cat suit is prima facie proof that God does indeed exist, despite my earlier conclusion. And that He is a kind, loving, and altogether awesome dude.
Exhibit A:
http://www.comicboards.com/batman/attachments/051228213025/Catwoman%20-%20Michelle%20Pfeiffer.jpg
You atheists can go home now. Game over. Michelle for the win.
Professor Blather on November 15, 2007 at 12:40 PM
For the record, I never get tired of these Atheist/Theist threads. But that’s probably because I can’t lose.
I used to pray for death, but that prayer was never answered. However, this story that praying for rain in GA yielded sparse rain has given me new hope - now maybe if I pray for death, I’ll at least get the flu or something. Worth a shot.
Enrique on November 15, 2007 at 12:42 PM
Heh.
Allahpundit on November 15, 2007 at 12:42 PM
Have patience. God has a backorder. He’ll get to that particular prayer soon enough.
Maybe sooner than you think. (Cue Vincent Price-esque laughter)
Professor Blather on November 15, 2007 at 12:44 PM
You are supposed to pray in thanks for what God has done. That’s the problem. While God answers prayer, prayer is supposed to be to thank God for all the blessings He has given.
So yes, thank you God for the rain that You brought. May Your will be done on Earth - WHATEVER THAT WILL MAY BE.
ThackerAgency on November 15, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Great, they pray for rain, and a farmer loses his barn. You just can’t win with God.
When you pray for rain for your crops, your neighbors crops could be flooded.
The irony…
And for all of you atheists…the war prayer by Mark Twain (and other goodies to make you gleeful):
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/twainwp.htm
right2bright on November 15, 2007 at 12:50 PM
I guess the thing atheists find interesting about your comment is about the flu. Others would prob. be floored that you prayed to die. I’m sorry. Hope you’re better now. Who did you pray to?
JiangxiDad on November 15, 2007 at 12:53 PM
I agree with you!
Looking back on the Batman movie series, I found all of the Batmans sub-par and barely entertaining.
Batman Begins, although also far fetched, was far better, and more entertaining.
William
William2006 on November 15, 2007 at 12:53 PM
I even thought he rocked in the Equilibrium, ok I admit, I have a Bale man crush
liberrocky on November 15, 2007 at 12:56 PM
Atlanta is so full of sinners, it repels rain.
Ali-Bubba on November 15, 2007 at 1:07 PM
Yes, but while getting together those folks may have exchanged some good holiday cooking recipes or news about upcoming garage sales. Did you think of that? Maybe that was God’s plan all along. He does work in mysterious ways you know.
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 1:11 PM
You ave a very strange sense of humor.
I like that.
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 1:14 PM
Good god, shut UP all you stupid atheists! A Christian here is telling us what we’re supposed to do, and he’s also telling us what our problem is! Can’t you just listen to him for a change?
Excepting prayers for rain, my death, and a cure for cancer.
It wouldn’t be Certified Christian(TM) without the incorrect capitalization of the third person masculine subject pronoun. Rest assured that ThackerAgency is going to heaven.
I completely agree. If God wants to give me a new job, or two kilos of uncut cocaine, or if he wants to kill fifty, maybe even sixty people, then his will be done! He’s mysterious! He causes rain! Or doesn’t!
Loundry on November 15, 2007 at 1:33 PM
Oh Lord wontcha give me a mercedes benz
Kini on November 15, 2007 at 1:38 PM
Part 1: Isaiah prays for a drought.
- Israel is parched.
Part 2: Isaiah prays for rain.
- Israel is soaked
Part 3: Georgia has a drought.
- Governor asks folks to pray for rain
- Everyone gives their unique opinion on what prayer can and cannot do.
Yes, prayer can bring rain. ‘Ask ye anything in my name and I shall grant it’.
Can anyone name what’s missing?
RiverCocytus on November 15, 2007 at 1:43 PM
I even thought he rocked in the Equilibrium, ok I admit, I have a Bale man crush
liberrocky
Gun Fu! Yes, whenever I see that show, I watch it. I’m all, don’t rat out your dad! And the kid is all “I’m not medicated” and then Christian Bale is all “you guys are going down” and then the heart monitor goes “beeeeeee” and then Christian Bale kills them all and stops Fascism!
I, also, have a man crush on Bale.
Krydor on November 15, 2007 at 1:45 PM
Heh
kiakjones on November 15, 2007 at 1:51 PM
Hey, I’m just excited to see the city I live in mentioned in Hot Air–Peachtree City!
BTW, I always get a kick out of supposed materialist naturalist atheists using the nonmaterial (information) to try and prove materialist naturalism. Its cognitive dissonance in its purest form!
common sensineer on November 15, 2007 at 2:09 PM
What little faith here. People prayed, God delivered. what more do you want. I didn’t hear them pray for a ton of rain. I heard them pray for rain. They got it. What more proof do you want?
unseen on November 15, 2007 at 2:24 PM
Having faith is a detriment. How about intelligence as a superior substitute? (Where does the Bible praise intelligence as a virtue?)
And yet the drought persists, so your god did a really crappy job. In other news, he allows children to be raped and murdered despite desperate and earnest prayers to the opposite effect.
I’d personally like to see cancer cured. But I’m just a heartless atheist, so what do I know?
Loundry on November 15, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Loundry says:
It has only been one day. Do you expect God to deliver a foot or two of rain in one day? That would do horrific damage. Why should Christians take you seriously if you don’t even take them seriously?
Really? When was the last time you prayed that a child not get raped? And if you did, did that child get raped anyway? You are implying this to be the case, you know.
HeIsSailing on November 15, 2007 at 4:36 PM
How about Lubbock, Texas? They were in a drought two years ago. Pray Lubbock organized a day of Fasting and Praying and the prayers continued throughout congregations throughout the city. Not only that, but word spread to the Panhandle and the Permian Basin. They prayed too. The rains came! And continued. And continued. and continued. Lubbock, West Texas, and really all of Texas are no longer in a drought and the states lakes are fill to the brim! There were many scoffers before the prayers went up. Some still try to explain it away. Many of us know it was God’s goodness and answer to prayer and are giving Him the credit! Don’t give up Georgia. Keep praying.
Ordinary1 on November 15, 2007 at 4:38 PM
The gods offer no rewards for intellect. There was never one yet that showed any interest in it.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 4:39 PM
So THAT’S what’s to blame for the great El Paso flood of 2006!!!
HeIsSailing on November 15, 2007 at 4:44 PM
Would that be asking too much of your god? Maybe he’s got a headache.
I don’t see how that would be a problem for an omnipotent god. Am I wrong in thinking that he can do anything?
As if Christians ever did take a gay ex-Christian like me seriously. Your team drew first blood. Does “Turn or burn!” ring a bell? I’m not a Christian, so I don’t have to forgive. And I don’t.
Let’s do it immediately:
O Lord,
Please do not let any more children be raped, and I ask this in Jesus Christ’s name. Amen.
Now let’s see if your god answers my prayer.
I ignore your vain attempt to turn this into some stupid ad hominem. Shouldn’t your god bear some responsibility in allowing the persistence of horrible human suffering, particularly since you clam that:
A) he loves us
B) he is omnipotent
And *especially* considering that Jesus Christ himself said that he would do ANYTHING if we asked it in his name?
Loundry on November 15, 2007 at 5:01 PM
Truly obsessed, ain’t ya?
Don’t you ever bore yourself?
Can you explain (in 5,000 words or less) how you are even a little bit different than a fundamentalist fire and brimstone Southern Baptist?
For bonus points: how old are you? Just curious.
Best part is I don’t even need to find this thread again. I can just catch you the next time you’re obsessing over your fundamental need to proselytize. Then you can tell me how old you are. ;)
Professor Blather on November 15, 2007 at 5:31 PM
What, did you get bored with talking to me?
Esthier on November 15, 2007 at 5:47 PM
Or rather God doesn’t care so much for the intelligence of such a creature as man, the same way we couldn’t care less about the intelligence of fish.
“14 Therefore once more I will astound these people
with wonder upon wonder;
the wisdom of the wise will perish,
the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.”" [ Isaiah 29:14]
Esthier on November 15, 2007 at 5:51 PM
You have kids. Are you saying you’ve never let them be unhappy for even a moment when it was in your power to make them happy?
Esthier on November 15, 2007 at 5:57 PM
For the atheists here who might wish to contribute a bit of empathy to those in Ga,in lieu of prayer;
sing along with Tom.
agape,
robb
wuzrobbd on November 15, 2007 at 6:00 PM
Loundry says:
I’m not a Christian, so I’m not sure what you are talking about.
HeIsSailing on November 15, 2007 at 6:03 PM
After reading all your comments, you’re kind of in a predicament with no faith or intelligence.
wytammic on November 15, 2007 at 6:21 PM
Stargate reference… SuhWeeet!
BadgerHawk on November 15, 2007 at 7:02 PM
This thread is not even worth the aggrivation of trying to explaing things like why we have sickness in this world and so forth. But, here I go. It’s one word. SIN. Yep that’s it. Have a nice night.
boomer on November 15, 2007 at 7:15 PM
Loundry has intelligence, you are free to think that it is misdirected, but he clearly has it. Give the man his due anyway.
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 7:15 PM
And whom, pray tell, could ever have created that now?
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 7:16 PM
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 7:16 PM
Well, lets see, we are given a set of rules to live by and we can’t seem to do it so, we are punished for it. I know you guys don’t get it. You won’t until you choose to believe in God. So that’s the last of my argument for this thread.
boomer on November 15, 2007 at 7:28 PM
boomer says:
I don’t know, Boomer. I don’t believe in God, and I still get that basic principle. Many atheists seem to think the Christian version of God promises a cartoon world where everything is miraculously pain and problem free, and even I know that is just not the case. When they argue with that assumption, they frankly make themselves look pretty foolish.
Even atheists have to admit that the stuff in the Bible and other Scriptures did not just come out of thin air. They are not lies, deceptions, or thoughtless story-telling They are, at the very least, written very intelligent people who seriously struggled with problems like the pain and suffering in this world, and aren’t we blessed that they left their words and thoughts behind? Even an atheist can learn much from the Bible and other ancient writings.
HeIsSailing on November 15, 2007 at 7:38 PM
A God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell — mouths mercy, and invented hell — mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!
- Mark Twain
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 8:05 PM
Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
- Issac Asimov
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 8:15 PM
Obviously Georgia is in a severe drought. Still, looking at those drought at the link, like 75% of the country is perpetually in a drought. Really? You have to be kidding me! We were supposedly in drought conditions last spring and early summer when I was having to have my grass cut every 3-5 days because it was growing so fast because of all the friggin’ rain! I have lived in a fairly rural farming area now for 13 years and every single year I have lived here we have had “drought conditions”. It would seem to me that if we have about the same rainfall for over a decade that at some point it would be considered normal. I’m having trouble buying the suppositions going into those maps.
deepdiver on November 15, 2007 at 8:57 PM
Why do atheists spend so much time on something that they don’t believe in? I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said “it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
In cases like Loundry it goes even farther into the realm of vendetta. He has spent so much time and effort into vilifying the Christian god that it appears that he is in fact not an atheist at all. His arguments always read as if he truly believes that the God he hates so much is not only real, but the cause of all the pain he has received through out his life. Most atheist arguments are in fact calm deliberate attempts at pointing out the folly of believing in an invisible man who exists in the sky and knows all your innermost thoughts. Yet, Loundry repeatedly attacks God as if in a court of law, specifically Nuremberg. He is not the only one I have run into like this, but he is the one who is posting here.
Others of his ilk, at times, seem to be more upset that we do not follow ALL the laws as laid out in the bible. That we do not stone children to death for disobeying their parents, that we do not make blood sacrifices, and so on. Their argument is “you say you follow the word of GOD, and yet you haven’t slaughtered your daily quota of new born lambs? FOR SHAME!” Of course if we actually did this they would hold it over our heads how evil we are.
This particular group of atheists also seem to be unable to separate God from man, as if they are in fact one in the same. Blaming God for the evils that men do. MB4 quotes Mark Twain, the quote basically blames god for not making us perfect and happy, for daring in fact to create a flawed and imperfect creature who must struggle against its very nature in order to achieve its everlasting reward. This of course is if you ignore angels. (I know they don’t exist either do they atheists?)
In angels god created Twains perfect being, or good children as he called them. No pain, no sorrow, no worries, diseases or cares, and immortal. Yet in their perfection they were flawed. With no pain they had no compassion, without sorrow they had no happiness, and so on. He gave us balance, and with balance comes free will.
Christians often say that the reason for all the pain and sorrow in the world is due to original sin. But once again free will has something to do with it. In the old testament God was always killing people, or ordering people to be killed. However it must be remembered that his largest body count was from the flood.
The bible says that the flood was gods way of cleansing the world of the wickedness that man had become. After the flood he said that He would never do it again, that mankind from then on would have to fix its own problems. Free will is pointless if some one is pointing a gun at your head and telling you to be good or else, isn’t it? Yes there is punishment for doing bad, isn’t there always? Jesus died for our sins as some say, and will basically act as our advocate when we die and are judged.
Thats what it said in a pamphlet that the BN chaplain gave me anyways.
Dang I do run on don’t I? :-P sry
Bigkatt on November 15, 2007 at 9:10 PM
I’m glad they got some rain, maybe with more prayer they will get more rain. But looking at the numbers Allah linked to, I don’t know why they are in such bad shape. Up to last month, which is where the numbers are updated to, they have got 38% less rain this year than average. That means they have had 62% of average rainfall. I don’t know that such and amount of rainfall should be classified as a drought. Quite a bit less than average for sure… but drought ?
I would think reservoirs would be in place and have the capacity to handle that much less rain. I mean lets face it, the only water that is REALLY wasted is the water that never gets collected and used. There was probably ample rain it they would have had ample reservoir capacity. I’m only speculating but I bet there has been a lot of build up of housing and nobody in the state government is tending to the fact that means you need more reservoir capacity.
Up to last month they have had 26 inches of rain for the year. Average is about 42 inches. Government really needs to be aware that more capacity is needed with a growing population. Probably twenty years ago 38% less than average rain would not have caused a panic because of far less use due to fewer people.
My point is…. that 26 inches average over the state is a lot of rain, this sound more like a failure on the state governments part to plan rather than any natural disaster.
Bottom line is they need to build more reservoirs so they don’t get caught short like this. Maybe… just maybe, this is God’s way of telling them to wake up and smell the coffee. When the population grows your need more reservoirs and if you don’t do that, well… it’s not God putting you in a bad situation, it’s your own lack of planning.
Maxx on November 15, 2007 at 9:43 PM
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
- Thomas Jefferson
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 9:59 PM
MB4 here is a little more from Notes on the State of Virginia (1781-1785)
Query 17, which I originally quoted, and where your quote comes as well. Here is the rest of it.
Of course from query 19 we get
And of course the letter to Peter Carr comes several much better examples of his beliefs.
Of course he also says
In a later letter, this time to Francis Hopkinson he says
He also says this about religious tyranny
On religion in general,
Hmm, pretty complicated guy that Thomas Jefferson. Obviously someone who was capable of deep thought, and great intelligence.
Bigkatt on November 15, 2007 at 10:53 PM
I’d like to assume you’re intelligent, but you rarely post any of your own thoughts. You even frequently use the same quotes over and over again.
Is that a defense mechanism for deflecting criticism by making arguments through other people, or are you just convinced the arguments are more persuasive when they come from famous smart people?
Esthier on November 15, 2007 at 11:06 PM
MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 11:58 PM
You know what I’d like to see?
csdeven Vs.Loundry
The bigot who wants to see any one who believes in the “non-sense” of the bible taken down a peg or two, should go head to head against the bigot who hates all who show any prejudice against the Mormons.(who also follow the bible)
Just out of curiosity where are csdeven and his buddy vanceone? Do they only believe in defending their faith from evangelical Christians? It seems odd that given the attacks that Loundry has made against everyone who even makes some claim to having any connection to the teachings of Jesus Christ that csdeven isn’t right up front in this, and the previous “pray for rain” post, defending his beliefes from some one who is even more outspoken in his bigotry.
Man, the spittle alone (if it could be somehow harnessed) from that exchange could resolve the drought problems in Georgia. Or perhaps this is some kind of bizzar Jekyll and Hyde thing, where depending upon the direction the wind is blowing, or whatever, csdeven transforms into Loundry and attacks all that is Holy, and then later transforms back and attacks all who are bigoted towards Mormons? Or twins seperated at birth! One good the other evil!…wait how could we tell? If one wins then the Mormons will over run the earth demanding that all accept them as Christians, if the other, then rabid foaming at the mouth anti-Christians will over run the earth demanding that we all admit that J.C. was 2 bit hack magician! Oh God, the horror THE HORROR! We can’t let them meet! it would be matter and anti-matter of equal proportions! NONE WOULD SURVIVE!
Oh no, I used both their names in the same post! Its too late, the end of times is here! Everybody fall back we have to nuke the site from orbit! Its the only way to be safe!
no wait that would just be silly.
Sorry folks, I don’t know what came over me.
Bigkatt on November 16, 2007 at 1:58 AM
Linguistic skills do not equal skills of persuasion.
Esthier on November 16, 2007 at 11:51 AM