…

Considering that Rudy forced out the police commissioner out for political reasons, I’m not sure it’s my argument that has the holes in it.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:35 PM

There you go again… What exactly is the factual support for your assertion that Bratton was forced out by Rudy? and if he was indeed forced out by Rudy what facts can you cite that support your assertion that it was for political reasons? Then we’ll see whether your argument has holes in it or not.

Rudy + Bratton = crime goes down
Rudy + Kerik = crime goes down

Can you see the common denominator?

Give it a rest Hollowpoint. If Rudy didn’t like the operation of the NYPD he would have replaced the senior staff. Just like if Bush didn’t like what Petraeus was doing he would replace him.
You are arguing a losing hand.

Babs on November 14, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Considering that Rudy forced out the police commissioner out for political reasons, I’m not sure it’s my argument that has the holes in it.

Rudy used the same tactics in NYC that Petraus is now using in Iraq.
MikeZero on November 14, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Crediting Rudy with the tactics of his police commissioner is like crediting Bush for the tactics of Petraeus. They both made a good choice in who to appoint, but weren’t directly responsible for policies of their appointees.

Rudy used the same tactics in NYC that Petraus is now using in Iraq. He brought back the “beat cop”. Rather than cops driving around patrolling, remaining faceless authority figures, he put them in the neighborhoods, walking the beat, interacting with the community, building relationships with the people.

That, IMO, more than anything else, helped reduce crime, got people out and looking after their neighborhoods and helped the city come back to life.

Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani, both, have two new ads out, Hat Tip to Jay at Stop the ACLU for the email….

I can’t believe I forgot this, but Mitt promised the people of MA that he would not erode the current abortion policies. Restraining his veto pen on those abortions were probably an honoring of that commitment.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 1:23 PM

Well, that and the fact that he campaigned as pro-choice and against Roe v Wade being overturned.

Yeah- especially when their boss goes on a vendetta against them for not being sufficiently sycophantic.

Who exactly came to that conclusion? Did Bratton say that, or was it a conclusion reached by a NYT writer who hates Rudy? There is a difference between criticizing a candidate based on facts reported in liberal media reports and criticizing a candidate on innuendo or conclusions reached by liberal media reports.

Fred provided legal services for the defense team of the Libyan terrorists responsible for the Lockerbie bombing. That is not innuendo or a conclusion reached by a liberal reporter. That is a fact. Fred lobbied for an abortion group, but claims to be 100% pro-life. That is a fact. I can separate the bogus conclusions and innuendos from the facts. Whereas MB4 puts the loose conclusions and innuendos front and center.

Rudy is a tin pot dictator. Rudy is a whore for publicity. Rudy is mentally deranged. Rudy does not have the temperament to be president. These are not facts. Bratton was forced to quit, because Rudy did not like how much credit he was getting for the turn around. That is not a fact. That is an unsubstantiated conclusion made by people who do not like Rudy. It means nothing.

Buy Danish on November 14, 2007 at 12:28 PM

I can’t believe I forgot this, but Mitt promised the people of MA that he would not erode the current abortion policies. Restraining his veto pen on those abortions were probably an honoring of that commitment.

It’s not for me. I’m just saying it would be nice to have a real conservative this time around. Mitt or Rudy ain’t it!

Buy Danish on November 14, 2007 at 12:28 PM

Oh I agree with you on that point. I don’t think it is a reflection of his stance on abortion, but I want to flesh it out just the same.

Mitt, according to a recent poll, is viewed as the most conservative of all the rep candidates. (not sure who was included in the poll. I have a hard time believing Hunter was included)

I just seen an Iowa poll on Fox saying that a huge majority of people WILL vote for a Mormon.

Note that crime rates were dropping for the three years before Giuliani took office. And they continued to drop after he left.

Crime in New York peaked in 1990. Giuliani did not take office until 1994.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 12:25 PM

Yeah, and Reagan and Thatcher just got lucky with ending the Cold War.

Give it up MB4. Rudy turned that city around, and the beneficial effects from the numerous reforms he instituted continue to this day.

If you want to criticize him for his ties to Kerik or something with a shred of legitimacy, go right ahead, but you sound ridiculous when you try and pretend that it was just a magical coincidence that NYC was saved and reborn into the safe, thriving metropolis it is today.

Bratton quit and Miller quit. People quit.
tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 12:58 PM

Yeah- especially when their boss goes on a vendetta against them for not being sufficiently sycophantic. Bratton- not Rudy- was the architect of the NYC law enforcement policy. LA also experienced a drop in crime when he brought his tactics there.

But like GW Bush, results and competance take a back seat to cronyism. Rudy just doesn’t have the temperment to be a good President.

After Time put Bratton on its cover in January 1996, an enraged Giuliani had City Hall attorneys begin investigating his personal expenses. That was enough for Bratton. He quit two months later.

We’ll remember your new-found respect for the “liberal media” next time they write a hit piece on Thompson.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 12:40 PM

Bratton quit and Miller quit. People quit. Liberal media assassins with axes to grind put together their resignations with innuendo and whala smear piece cited ad nauseum by MB4.

Bratton is top cop here in LA. He’s always on vacation and botched the MacAurther Park melee. He is no crime fighting genius. He was definitely the Garfunkel. Rudy was Simon. Bring back Gates in LA!!!

Note that crime rates were dropping for the three years before Giuliani took office. And they continued to drop after he left.

When he was US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, then?

He deserves credit for appointing a police commissioner (I forget his name) that actually did deserve a lot of credit for the crime rate going down, though as you pointed out it was going down anyways.

Of course when said police commissioner had the nerve to actually accept some recognition for his accomplishments instead of giving it all to Rudy, he was forced out and Rudy appointed corrupt loyalist crony Kerik.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 12:30 PM

The most important casualty of this process was Bratton, who, besides Giuliani himself, was most responsible for the administration’s early success. Whenever the press gave too much credit to Bratton, the police chief and his spokesman John Miller would be called into city hall to be bawled out by Giuliani loyalists. Miller was finally forced to quit.
After Time put Bratton on its cover in January 1996, an enraged Giuliani had City Hall attorneys begin investigating his personal expenses. That was enough for Bratton. He quit two months later.

Read the indictment of Kerik and what happened before 9/11 and this creep was dirty the whole time. He was a New Yawk
police commissioner getting paid off by the mob.