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Rudy’s Charles Hill problem

posted at 3:53 pm on November 14, 2007 by Bryan
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When evaluating a candidate for the presidency, it’s wise to look at more than just the candidate himself or herself. For instance, a Hillary presidency would probably elevate people like Sandy “Docs in socks” Berger, Bill Richardson and others to positions of power. One of the knocks on Fred Thompson is his relationship with Spencer Abraham. Etc.

Clint Taylor emailed us to explain the problems that one ally of Rudy Giuliani might bring to a Giuliani administration. That advisor is Professor Charles Hill of Yale University. Here’s Clint’s letter.

bp

Bryan, Allah, Michelle–

I saw your link in the headlines to Yale Prof—and Giuliani foriegn policy adviser—Charles Hill taking a swing at the Bush administration’s foreign policy while he talked up Rudy’s:

Describing his candidate’s brand of foreign policy, Hill said: “It’s not aggressive, it’s pragmatic, and it’s ‘get the job done.’ And that has to be done through working with people, being cooperative, being very inclusive, bringing in people of a wide variety of opinions and making them see the commonalities among them and getting them to work together, so it is very different from that,” Hill said.

It’s an odd proxy attack, with the Giuliani campaign using Hill to criticize the President. I’ve got a lot of respect for Prof. Hill’s service to the country as a diplomat, and he is also reported to be one of the best teachers at Yale. Nonetheless he’s taken a couple of positions in the recent past that probably put him at odds with a lot of your readers—both of which were summed up pretty well in his letter to the Wall Street Journal last year in defense of Yale’s disastrous decision to admit as a student Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi, former Taliban adviser to Mullah Omar. Hill’s letter is preserved here at Powerline:

The widespread denunciation of Yale for permitting Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi to take courses as a non-degree student is unjustified. This is exactly what a great university should be doing. A university, by definition, must be open to the vast external world and provide a space for intellectual and personal interaction among differing perspectives. Only through such engagement with others can the process of learning and changing for the better take place.
U.S. national interests also are involved here. Put simply, the greater Middle East region for decades has been moving into violent opposition to the established world order. American policy has been, and must continue to be, to encourage those states, parties and individuals who want to be, or to become, good international citizens and to defend ourselves against those who don’t; for if the latter prevail, the result could be an all-out world war waged from that region against the international state system.
Seen in this context, Mr. Hashemi’s case and that of Dubai Ports World are in the same category. DP World represents an Arab state willing to play by the rules of international commerce; we should have welcomed them to our shores, not kicked them in the teeth. Mr. Hashemi, who has never been charged with Taliban-style crimes, and who was reported by the American press to have been helpful to the U.S. forces during the 2003 Afghan campaign, is by every account a friendly and constructive presence here at Yale. He has chosen to shape his life on our side of the line.
As a “Special Student” in a category designed for people without a standard academic background, he is not taking a slot away from any qualified applicant. Yale deserves praise for spotting someone who can make a positive difference and giving him a chance.
Charles Hill
Lecturer
Yale University
New Haven, Conn.

As one of those leading the denunciations of Yale’s decision, I’ll say Hill got this half right: we do need to encourage individuals who want to become good international citizens. But there was never any credible reason to think Hashemi had converted from his love and admiration of the Taliban. He was, at best, an opportunist like the Iraqi WMD source known as “Curve Ball”, telling the West whatever it wanted to hear. At worst, his eloquently expressed sympathies for the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, whom he continued to defend on September 12th, 2001, never went away.

Note that not only does Hill defend Yale’s embrace of Hashemi, a man who once begged his Taliban masters to be sent to America to defend the Taliban’s regime (and did so on Yale’s campus in early 2001), but he also defends one of the Bush administration’s acknowledged missteps: ceding management of American ports to Dubai Ports World, a decision I cautioned against rushing into here. Just as Yale thought better of keeping Hashemi around, the Bush administration backed away from its Dubai Ports World decision.

On both of these issues, conservative blogs led successful revolts against unpopular decisions. But now that Mayor Giuliani is the Presidential frontrunner, the blogosphere is taking for granted his general reputation for “toughness” without looking closely at what his positions, and those of his advisers, actually are.

I believe Mayor Giuliani is tough, and I know Professor Hill is smart. But on these issues, Professor Hill was wrong and out of step with what conservatives believed. As a likely National Security Advisor or Secretary of State if Mayor Giuliani is elected President, should we expect more policy decisions like these from Prof. Hill?


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This isn’t the same Charles Hill that was a senior adviser to Ronald Reagan and Henry Kissinger, right?

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:00 PM

Um. . . . well of course this is Rudy’s style. Kerik (Rudy’s choice for top cop in NYC, Homeland Security Chief, failed envoy to train Iraqi police force) was a friend of the mafia in New York. Rudy loves to talk about how he brought them down. It looks like his style is to bring them down by joining them. This Taliban issue would fit right in with his National Security credentials.

I still can’t believe it is November and we are still talking about the possibility (and probability) that Rudy will be the R nomination for the president of the USA.

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Somebody get the Guiliani campaign the phone number of Victor Davis Hanson.

Leonidas Hoplite on November 14, 2007 at 4:02 PM

Hill was interviewed by Hugh Hewitt not too long ago and seemed like a pretty reasonable guy, but I did not know about this letter in support of Hashemi. Of course, these candidates have lots of people advising them, Norman Podhoretz being another Giuliani adviser, and you can’t question his credentials in calling out the islamic fascist menace.

Hell, Hillary has Gen. Jack Keane advising her (co-author of the Surge strategy with Fred Kagan), but that doesn’t mean I’m going to vote for her.

Dudley Smith on November 14, 2007 at 4:02 PM

I’ve heard some rumblings alot recently about Rudy’s potential team. From Kerik to this Hill guy to others, there seems to be issues.

It’s all troubling. How, exactly, would Rudy be different from Hillary? She would be desperate to prove her “toughness” at least in the first term.

Vanceone on November 14, 2007 at 4:02 PM

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that Hill’s presence means Rudy is going to join the Taliban. But Clint demonstrates that Hill has been out of touch with conservatives on a couple of key issues related to terrorism, and that’s a problem. Hyperbole just confuses the issue.

Bryan on November 14, 2007 at 4:03 PM

Better yet, get the Giuliani campaign the phone number of John Bolton.

Always Right on November 14, 2007 at 4:06 PM

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Yes. That’s the logical conclusion. Rudy’s got this guy who supported a guy that’s a former Taliban adviser and now Yale student, as one of his several advisers, so that must mean Rudy’ll just defeat the Taliban by joining them.

I guess Fred Thompson’s a jihadist sympathizer and open borders crowd member, right? His campaign co-chair is.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Always Right on November 14, 2007 at 4:06 PM

Now you’re talking…

Bryan on November 14, 2007 at 4:08 PM

amerpundit, no the LOGICAL conclusion is that there were no conservatives before Rudy, and Rudy is now the only TRUE conservative.

Sort of like how Mohammed wrote the actual Holy Book that the Jews follow, and that when Jesus comes back, He’ll tell everyone that Mohammed was right.

Rudy is the most conservative candidate possible isn’t he? I just wish he was a little more conservative than Hillary.

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:15 PM

I still can’t believe it is November and we are still talking about the possibility (and probability) that Rudy will be the R nomination for the president of the USA.

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:01 PM

You and me both. When “shamnesty” was THE issue being discussed around here and other right wing blogs, Bush, McCain and other amnesty-supporting Republicans were villified as sellouts not worthy of holding office. Now some of those same people support the candidate who’s as bad (or worse) as any of them.

If 3 years ago anyone suggested that a pro-choice, pro-abortion funding, anti-gun extremist, pro-amnesty, sanctary city defending, anti-immigration enforcement, crony appointing RINO like Rudy would be the front-runner, we’d have all have laughed them off the Internet.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:16 PM

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:15 PM

What are you talking about?

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:17 PM

I guess Fred Thompson’s a jihadist sympathizer and open borders crowd member, right? His campaign co-chair is.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Hill is a policy advisor, the Abraham is a campaign staffer. A bit of difference there.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:19 PM

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:17 PM

That (second paragraph) is the long and the short of what Muslims believe.

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:22 PM

Hill is a policy advisor, the Abraham is a campaign staffer. A bit of difference there.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:19 PM

Hill was also a senior adviser in the Reagan administration. He was the executive aid to Secretary of State George Shultz. He was also part of the policy planning staff for Henry Kissinger.

I’m not overly concerned about him.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:26 PM

Since the executive branch isn’t a one-man band, I’m pleased to learn more about the front runners’ policy advisors, likely cabinet picks, etc. We know what we’d get with HIllary (*shudder*). It irritates me no end that Bush apparently appointed people (coughcondoleezacough) more for their personal loyalty than for their political/philosophical compatibility.

Anybody got any more info/dirt on Rudy’s advisors? How about Romney?

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 4:27 PM

ThackerAgency on November 14, 2007 at 4:22 PM

I understand that part. But I know very few people claiming Giuliani is the most Conservative candidate. I’ve heard plenty of arguments for him. That’s not usually the most popular one.

And if you don’t believe he’s more Conservative than Hildebeast, you haven’t been paying attention.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:28 PM

American Res. Group 11/09 – 11/12

Giuliani 25%
Romney 21%
Thompson 17%
McCain 12%
Huckabee 6%
Paul 4%

This pool is an outlier from the rest. I wonder if Mitt should be 12%?

RCP – Republican Presidential Nomination

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 4:30 PM

Hill was also a senior adviser in the Reagan administration. He was the executive aid to Secretary of State George Shultz. He was also part of the policy planning staff for Henry Kissinger.

I’m not overly concerned about him.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:26 PM

And James Baker was Reagan’s chief of staff- that doesn’t excuse his current and absurd appeasement stance though.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:41 PM

The concern expressed by this post is silly. Rudy has wisely assembled a team of 12 senior foreign policy advisors with varying views such as the hawkish Norman Podhoretz and the respected Professor Hill. These are the advisors who will give Rudy different perspectives so that he can make a well informed decision.

It is asinine to assume Rudy adopts all of the positions of all of his advisors. It would be impossibly contradictory as well, because these advisors disagree on many issues.

Would you prefer if Rudy surrounded himself with yes men?

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 4:46 PM

FYI, here’s the list of all foreign policy and national security advisors for the major candidates. Let the googling and cherry picking begin!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/documents/the-war-over-the-wonks.html

Dudley Smith on November 14, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:41 PM

I wouldn’t be concerned about him being one of Rudy’s multiple (including Norman Podhoretz) foreign policy advisers.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:48 PM

I wouldn’t be concerned about him being one of Rudy’s multiple (including Norman Podhoretz) foreign policy advisers.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 4:48 PM

I don’t find it that troubling either, but Abraham is one of Fred’s multiple campaign staffers and co-chairs, yet listening to some of the people around here tell it, that is clear evidence that Fred is about to strap on a suicide bomb vest any day now.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:57 PM

Would you prefer if Rudy surrounded himself with yes men?

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Well, he did already demonstrate that to be his modus operendi as NYC mayor.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:57 PM

On my behalf, I only brought in Abraham because of ThackerAgency’s first comment regarding the Taliban, Rudy solving problems by joining the other side, and how this would “fit right in with his National Security credentials”.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 5:00 PM

To my knowledge, Professors Charles Hill is actually the “chief foreign policy adviser” for the Giuliani campaign. What does that mean? It could mean nothing, but I’ve read that Hill did organize the team of advisers on foreign policy for Giuliani. He brought in Marty Kramer and Daniel Pipes.

Is Clint Taylor advising any campaigns? Just doing my due dilligence. Wierd that he’s writing about Charles Hill now. Hill has been an adviser for some time now. Oh well. Iowa spoils for everyone.

PS: There are campaigns that would make a stink if one of them brought in Kissinger as an FP adviser. Didn’t Kissinger approve of the Dubai ports sale?

gabriel sutherland on November 14, 2007 at 5:03 PM

Norman Podhoretz is also a foreign policy advisor to Rudy. He’s got a bunch of conflicting opinions represented there.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on November 14, 2007 at 5:09 PM

I don’t find it that troubling either, but Abraham is one of Fred’s multiple campaign staffers and co-chairs, yet listening to some of the people around here tell it, that is clear evidence that Fred is about to strap on a suicide bomb vest any day now.

Hollowpoint on November 14, 2007 at 4:57 PM

Well, Fred has a lengthy history of voting for Abraham’s open border agenda in the Senate. Whereas Rudy has not invited the Taliban to tea, as far as I know.

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 5:10 PM

Is it safe to assume that Clint Taylor is supporting someone other than Rudy or Fred?

Captain America on November 14, 2007 at 5:15 PM

Rudy is from New York City. What do you expect from a product of that city? Rudy is an ultra conservative by New York City standards and Hillary is a moderate.

He would not be my first choice, but the one big thing he has going for him is he is not Hillary, Obama, or Silky.

If he becomes the nominee, I will vote for him. But then again, I would vote for Ron Paul if he were the nominee. Anything but Hillary, Obama, or Silky.

saiga on November 14, 2007 at 5:15 PM

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 5:17 PM

You’re linking to the opinion of a former foreign policy adviser to Les Aspin.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 5:24 PM

You’re linking to the opinion of a former foreign policy adviser to Les Aspin.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 5:24 PM

So?

Do you disagree with whatever a former foreign policy adviser to Les Aspin says?

I try to read material without much regard to source and judge it on it’s merits.

More folks should try that.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 5:31 PM

Describing his candidate’s brand of foreign policy, Hill said: “It’s not aggressive, it’s pragmatic, and it’s ‘get the job done.’ And that has to be done through working with people, being cooperative, being very inclusive, bringing in people of a wide variety of opinions and making them see the commonalities among them and getting them to work together, so it is very different from that,” Hill said.

It looks like Giuliani’s a uniter, not a divider. We’ve see how that works. I prefer Reagan’s attitude: I don’t deal with barbarians. Or something like that.

jaime on November 14, 2007 at 5:32 PM

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 5:10 PM

What’s your take on Alan Placa, the former Catholic priest who works for Rudy? That story came up last month, but seemed to disappear. Is this gonna come back to bite him later?

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 5:39 PM

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 5:31 PM

No. I don’t disagree with whatever a foreign policy adviser to Les Aspin says. However, I take what Kaplan says with a grain of rice. He focuses on lambasting the Bush Administration on foreign policy, opposes the war in Iraq, and tries to explain the recent slide in American deaths in Iraq as a result of fewer troops on the ground and resorting more to airstrikes. That theory is, by the way, a load of crap.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 5:44 PM

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 5:10 PM

And Fred gives legal advice to terrorists.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 6:17 PM

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 5:44 PM

There is no real indication there that you even read the article, let alone analyzed the points in it, not all of which I agree with BTW. You appear to not like some of what he has said, mostly elsewhere, so you just condemn the whole thing in mass.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 6:30 PM

I try to read material without much regard to source and judge it on it’s merits.

More folks should try that.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 5:31 PM

An essential tool to evaluate the merits is the source.

Statements like your’s above are why I find you well-educated and well-written, witty, and humorous, but ultimately pointless. You’ll argue any side of an issue for the fun of it (granted,that can be fun sometime). You can criticize a candidate with the best of them, but defend no one that I’ve see with the same energy. You don’t intend to vote for whomever the Rep. candidate is, but you don’t seem to be an advocate for anyone in particular. In spite of everything you’ve said and written, who you are and what you believe in, and who you want to win the Presidency, is still a mystery to me. I think your “quiz” before suggested you are most in-tune with Duncan Hunter– then support him. Or are you just an equal-opportunity destroyer? I could just as easily imagine you doing this on various other sites all over the political spectrum. I think I’ve been taking your comments too seriously.

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 7:00 PM

I think I’ve been taking your comments too seriously.

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 7:00 PM

Y’think?

As you said, and as I learned sometime back, it’s pointless to respond to him. How about not, everyone?

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 7:08 PM

What’s your take on Alan Placa, the former Catholic priest who works for Rudy? That story came up last month, but seemed to disappear. Is this gonna come back to bite him later?

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 5:39 PM

None of us could possibly know the truth of what happened. The claim against Placa is just an allegation made as part of the mass priest sex abuse hysteria. The claim could be politically motivated (it first arose after Rudy’s 9/11 fame); the claim could be related to money (the Catholic church has paid out large sums of money to keep claims such as these out of the courts); or, the claim could be sincere. We just do not know. I do know that the claimed abuse took place 32 years ago and the accuser waited 27 years before finally coming forward with his allegation. That doesn’t mean he is lying, but it certainly does not enhance his credibility. I also know that another student at the time stated:

There was absolutely not a hint of rumor of a speculation or a whisper, in four years, or in decades after of any sexual predatoriness on the part of Rev. Placa

He also stated that the accuser acted inconsistent with what one would expect as a victim of abuse, and that the location where the abuse allegedly took place was heavily trafficked and the abuse could not have taken place as alleged without someone noticing.

The allegations are disturbing, but they are disputed, stale and inconsistent. They are so old that the statute of limitations has expired and there will never be a trial. So, Placa will never be convicted or aquitted. We do have a principle in this country that one is innocent until proven guilty. Placa was never proven guilty and never will be.

Now let us look at the situation from Rudy’s perspective. You know and love a man for 39 years. You know nothing, and have seen nothing, that would make these allegations seem even plausible. You cannot believe something so horrible about someone you think you know so well. Under these circumstances, do you defend your friend or do you kick him to the curb. Loyalty is not always a flaw.

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 7:11 PM

Hey, guys, look what some loser wrote in another thread:

You are just wasting all too much of my time. Maybe you think that you can keep me occupied so that I will not find more truth to tell about Rudolfo or the Huckster. I think that from now on I will just respond, when I do respond, to you with a “canned” reply of “You have the reading comprehension of a pet rock and are much more annoying.”

Three guesses who it was. coughMB4cough. Good guess! So we’re all just trying to suppress the truth! Only he has been blessed with the truth. Who knew?

Definitely the sickly-sweet odor of troll. Ignore him, and he’ll post less. (fingers crossed)

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 7:28 PM

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 7:28 PM

OK

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 7:36 PM

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 7:11 PM

Was Placa kicked out of the Church?

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 7:37 PM

“Giuliani employs his childhood friend Monsignor Alan Placa as a consultant at Giuliani Partners despite a 2003 Suffolk County, N.Y., grand jury report that accuses Placa of sexually abusing children, as well as helping cover up the sexual abuse of children by other priests. Placa, who was part of a three-person team that handled allegations of abuse by clergy for the Diocese of Rockville Centre, is referred to as Priest F in the grand jury report. The report summarizes the testimony of multiple alleged victims of Priest F, and then notes, “Ironically, Priest F would later become instrumental in the development of Diocesan policy in response to allegations of sexual abuse of children by priests.”"

I found this on Salon, so I’m not sure how much credibility I would lend it. Although I have read this same basic account in other places.

But I do agree with tommy. A friend is a friend and absent proof, it’s is right to be a friend.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 7:56 PM

But I do agree with tommy. A friend is a friend and absent proof, it’s is right to be a friend.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 7:56 PM

You said something in another thread about Mitt, that if there was some bad stuff to come out, better now than an October surprise.

This story about Placa stinks. My quick research shows ABC News saying the church forced Placa to “stop performing his priestly duties.” From what I’ve read so far, admittedly not a lot, these stories have the ring of truth. Why did the guy quit the church then if he was a monsignor? Just so you know, I’d vote for Rudy. But this story better be aired. The thought of a child molester being “protected” by a church, or company, or politician makes me ENRAGED! I’d be happy to kill him myself if he was guilty.

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 8:09 PM

Splashman,

One could ignore MB4, but the problem is that he keeps posting stuff from people who write for the Nation, advisors to Les Aspin, Washington Monthly and the like.

I frankly could not care less if he attacks me personally, but I find it highly objectionable when he smears candidates in the manner he does, and when he does it I feel obligated to call him on it (just as Ameripundit did earlier).

The alternative is to let him repeat the lie a thousand times so that it becomes the truth, but considering the stakes in this election, I am loath to let him get away with that.

There are people who read these blogs but never comment, and I’d hate for them to think that Rudy has dastardly plans to run a Totalitarian state, or other nonsense along those lines that he has peddled. Postings like that might receive more credence than they deserve because they appeared on a “conservative” blog.

Buy Danish on November 14, 2007 at 8:30 PM

Better yet, get the Giuliani campaign the phone number of John Bolton.

Always Right on November 14, 2007 at 4:06 PM

Yes!

Buy Danish on November 14, 2007 at 8:52 PM

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 8:09 PM

I agree. The truth needs to be out in the open. Whether he is a pedophile, or covered for pedophiles, it’s important to know the truth.

My only critique was that absent the truth, Rudy doesn’t have much of a choice, especially if he trusts the guy. It’s a huge gamble because if the guy is proven to be involved in any way, he will take Rudy down with him.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 9:39 PM

An essential tool to evaluate the merits is the source.(It is only an essential tool if you want to short cut everything else and stay in binary thinking mode. By your logic if Bush said 2 plus 2 = 25 and Hillary said 2 plus 2 = 4, you would decide that 2 plus 2 = 25.)

You don’t intend to vote for whomever the Rep. candidate is (How did you arrive at that conclusion, another short cut? See what I mean about short cuts. It is like when you “assume”, it makes an “a$$” out of “u” and “me”.), but you don’t seem to be an advocate for anyone in particular. In spite of everything you’ve said and written, who you are and what you believe in, and who you want to win the Presidency, is still a mystery to me. I think your “quiz” before suggested you are most in-tune with Duncan Hunter– then support him. (Who I am for is still in flux. If he were running I would be for Sessions, but he is not. If Tommy Franks were running I would be for him, but he is not. I would be for Tancredo if he had an appreciable chance, but he does not. I would probably be for Hunter if he had an appreciable chance, but he does not. So, right now I am between Fred and Mitt, leaning to Mitt right now.) Or are you just an equal-opportunity destroyer? (Now you are overrating me.) I could just as easily imagine you doing this on various other sites all over the political spectrum.(I don’t have THAT much spare time. 95+% of my comments are here. Lucky here!!! I think I’ve been taking your comments too seriously. (Doesn’t sound like you have been taking them seriously in the least. Why imply that you did?)

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 7:00 PM

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 9:57 PM

JiangxiDad on November 14, 2007 at 7:00 PM

BTW, don’t try to pigeonhole or type cast or psychoanalyze me. It can’t be done.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 10:02 PM

As you said, and as I learned sometime back, it’s pointless to respond to him. How about not, everyone?

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 7:08 PM

As of right now, I would be satisfied if just Buy Danish and you did not respond to me. Then I would have more time to do more research on Rudolfo and Huckabee.

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 10:10 PM

Three guesses who it was. coughMB4cough. Good guess! So we’re all just trying to suppress the truth! Only he has been blessed with the truth. Who knew?

Definitely the sickly-sweet odor of troll. Ignore him, and he’ll post less. (fingers crossed)

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 7:28 PM

You appear to have caught Buy Danish’s extreme obsession with me. Have you two been “dating”?

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 10:12 PM

It’s a huge gamble because if the guy is proven to be involved in any way, he will take Rudy down with him.

csdeven on November 14, 2007 at 9:39 PM

What “proof” could there possibly be after 37 years? There will not be a blue dress, absent a confession it will always remain, he said, he said.

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 10:17 PM

I frankly could not care less if he attacks me personally, but I find it highly objectionable when he smears candidates in the manner he does, and when he does it I feel obligated to call him on it (just as Ameripundit did earlier).

The alternative is to let him repeat the lie a thousand times so that it becomes the truth, but considering the stakes in this election, I am loath to let him get away with that.

There are people who read these blogs but never comment, and I’d hate for them to think that Rudy has dastardly plans to run a Totalitarian state, or other nonsense along those lines that he has peddled. Postings like that might receive more credence than they deserve because they appeared on a “conservative” blog.

Buy Danish on November 14, 2007 at 8:30 PM

I only respond to you, I do not seek you out, and usually only proportionately at most. What you can not refute you call “smears” or “lies” or pretend that I said something other than what I said. Can’t you do any better than that? I guess not. Can’t you even try? I guess not to that too as you would be doing that by now if you could.
BTW, Your obsession wit me is worsening. Are you taking your meds?

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 10:24 PM

MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 6:30 PM

You’re missing my point. I can’t take what he says as fact, because he makes crap up to fit his agenda. (See Iraq Comment). That’s like deciding not to support your candidate because you read an article about him by Scott Beauchamp.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 10:38 PM

Please don’t feed the trolls, Amerpundit. They just get noisier.

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 10:46 PM

Please don’t feed the trolls, Amerpundit. They just get noisier.

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 10:46 PM

True. Then I’ll consider this thread closed (for me).

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Giuliani Gets Exposed As Fraud by Firefighters

Will the Firefighters be to Giuliani what the Swiftboat Vets were to Kerry?

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 2:43 AM

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 10:38 PM

That is some stretch to compare Kaplan with Beauchamp. What part of what Kaplan says do you disagree with? Much of what he says is analysis. How does your counter analysis go?

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 2:49 AM

Please don’t feed the trolls, Amerpundit. They just get noisier.

Splashman on November 14, 2007 at 10:46 PM

Totally vacuous response.

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 2:52 AM

You’re missing my point.

amerpundit on November 14, 2007 at 10:38 PM

I think I likely get your point. You have a tunnel vision/binary view of the world and have a sort list of sources that you do not shut your eyes to.
So sad.

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 2:58 AM

tommylotto on November 14, 2007 at 10:17 PM

We are dealing with hypothetical questions, so anything can happen. But certainly, with the problems the church is going through, the accusation is damning enough to be problematic.

csdeven on November 15, 2007 at 4:42 AM

When evaluating a candidate for the presidency, it’s wise to look at more than just the candidate himself or herself. For instance, a Hillary presidency would probably elevate people like Sandy “Docs in socks” Berger, Bill Richardson and others to positions of power.

Or worst of all Richard Holbrooke, to whom President Izetbegovic admitted on his deathbed that he had played him for a sucker and gotten the Clinton White House to bomb the Serbs. Moreso than even Berger this fool of a man should be forced to wear a dunce’s cap and laughed out of public life. Clinton’s staff should be so thoroughly discredited by now that there be no possbility of their re-entry into the White House but we live in a mostly insane world.

aengus on November 15, 2007 at 5:31 AM

What you can not refute you call “smears” or “lies” or pretend that I said something other than what I said. Can’t you do any better than that? I guess not. Can’t you even try? I guess not to that too as you would be doing that by now if you could.
MB4 on November 14, 2007 at 10:24 PM

More unadulterated BS, MB4. I have refuted your posts in great detail, time and time again. As an illustration, last week you posted something about Rudy being a tyrant who wants to run a Totalitarian State and then you turned around and denied that that’s what the writer meant to say in the link you posted.

If we point out that your source is Chairman Mao’s best student you respond that you like to hear all sides of the issue. That is slippery, dishonest behavior.

As for my being “obsessed” with you, I am intent on pointing out falsehoods and distortions, but you seem to think that you should be able to carry on without anyone interrupting your propaganda campaigns.

This is a public blog, and if you don’t want people to parse your comments and sources, then maybe you should try someplace where everyone agrees and no one has the brains to read between the lines and separate opinions from facts, like,say, at DU.

Buy Danish on November 15, 2007 at 6:52 AM

Will the Firefighters be to Giuliani what the Swiftboat Vets were to Kerry?

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 2:43 AM

Did the entire world see Kerry’s heroics in Vietnam, live on TV with their own eyes?

tommylotto on November 15, 2007 at 9:44 AM

Rudy’s response to the IAFF UNION
IAFF Endorsed Dukakis In 1988. (“Firefighters’ Union Endorses Dukakis,” The Associated Press, 8/2/88)

IAFF Endorsed Clinton-Gore In 1992 And 1996. (IAFF, “America’s Fire Fighters Endorse Clinton-Gore,” Press Release, 8/7/92; IAFF, “Fire Fighters Endorse Clinton-Gore,” Press Release, 8/23/96)

Schaitberger Has Given Only To Democrats, Including Barbara Boxer (D-CA) And John Kerry (D-MA). (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, http://www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/10/07)

IAFF Endorsed Gore In 2000. (IAFF, “Fire Fighters Endorse Gore For President,” Press Release, 1/21/99)

In 2004, “IAFF Was The First Labor Union To Endorse Democrat John Kerry’s Race For The President, And Its President Was At Kerry’s Side Through Much Of The Campaign.”

Buy Danish on November 15, 2007 at 11:27 AM

Did the entire world see Kerry’s heroics in Vietnam, live on TV with their own eyes?

tommylotto on November 15, 2007 at 9:44 AM

Depends on the definition of “see” and the definition of “heroics”. Yet another similarity.

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 12:31 PM

More unadulterated BS, MB4. I have refuted your posts in great detail, time and time again. (You have done nothing of the kind and no matter how much time you spend wishing and hoping, it does not make it so.) As an illustration last week you (There you go again, yet again, demonstrating your obsession with me, remembering, in some corrupted way anyhow, what I said way back last week. Do you have “pictures” of me on your wall?) posted something about Rudy being a tyrant who wants to run a Totalitarian State and then you turned around and denied that that’s what the writer meant to say in the link you posted.(You just illustrate my point yet again by making things up. I did not even use the word “t#r#n#” nor the term “T#t#l#t#r#a# S#a#e”. Why don’t you just let folks read (or not read – their choice) my comments and not make your needy personal revisions to and interpretations of them?)

Buy Danish on November 15, 2007 at 6:52 AM

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Seriously, if you had this extreme stalking obsession with someone out in The World, she, or he, would probably have reported you to the police some time ago and you would be under full observation by now.

MB4 on November 15, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Anyone that Pat Robertson likes, must be a stink weasel.

saved on November 15, 2007 at 1:50 PM

MB4,

Oh, I get it. I’m not allowed to demonstrate that you are (excuse my language here) full of crap. I refute your absurd “arguments”, which are more often than not drawn from untrustworthy left wing sources, but according to MB4’s rules that is “stalking”.

I have shown time and again how you have used “chicken hawk” ARGUMENTS but you cry foul because you never actually use the word “chicken hawk”.

Freaking pathetic.

Buy Danish on November 15, 2007 at 2:47 PM

Just for the record.

MB4,

Here ya go. Enjoy the walk down memory lane, featuring this comment from Bryan who nailed you after you had been bwak bwak bwaking about Rush all day long.

MB4 on September 30, 2007 at 5:05 PM

You can knock off the chickenhawk nonsense right now.

Bryan on September 30, 2007 at 6:51 PM

Please don’t come back and tell us that you never actually used the term “chickenhawk”.

Buy Danish on October 4, 2007 at 7:18 PM

Buy Danish on November 15, 2007 at 2:53 PM

If you are interested in people with close ties to Giuliani, look up Raymond B Harding, and his son, Russell Harding.

Something to get you started.

The former president of the New York City Housing Development Corporation, Russell A. Harding, was charged in an indictment unsealed yesterday with using hundreds of thousands of dollars of the agency’s money for vacation travel, gifts and parties for friends and for other personal expenses.

The indictment, filed in Federal District Court in Manhattan, also charges that Mr. Harding directed others to shred documents and erase computer files to cover up his activities. His expense records had been requested by a reporter for The Village Voice. The indictment also charges that Mr. Harding possessed child pornography received over the Internet.

Mr. Harding, the son of Raymond B. Harding, the longtime leader of the Liberal Party and a close ally of Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, was a college dropout with no housing experience when Mr. Giuliani appointed him to run the housing corporation in 1998.

flenser on November 15, 2007 at 3:02 PM

Now let us look at the situation from Rudy’s perspective. You know and love a man for 39 years.

You might want to pick your words just a little more carefully, considering Rudy’s cross-dressing and the accusations against Placa.

flenser on November 15, 2007 at 3:07 PM

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