Muslim community eager to indoctrinate communicate
[Students visit Tuscaloosa mosque]

…Several students came to fulfill class obligations, and one professor brought her entire class to the open house.

Priscilla Davis, who teaches CD 304, a class about multicultural issues as they relate to communicative disorders, said she brought her class to give them insight into the faith. “I’m curious and excited,” Davis said.

… Crimson White invites comments here.

Not that I would…I understand the food is terrible and the service leaves something to be desired.

There are no guarantees, but I am unaware of any actual threats being made to my publisher, or to the publishers of the works of I.W. and C.L.

Not that I know of, although Ibn Warraq is doing work in this area. His forthcoming book, “Which Koran?”, is not to be missed.

Re Qur’an variants, see here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/199901/koran

Robert Spencer on November 11, 2007 at 3:23 PM

I heard about this find. They always hint that there are troubling differences between these and the authorized version but never go into detail. Are these variants available anywhere? in English?

Hahaha, no, it was a rhetorical question. I think the answer is that the networks are afraid they’ll get car bombed if they have you on, so basically, yeah, you’re right, they’re either dhimmis or collaborators, the Vichy French of the War on Terror.

Also, the blood money is not the same thing as the jizya.

Robert

Thanks for your response – I do stand corrected on the ayat. I do know that blood money and jizya are different, but my surprise is more @ Jews – supposedly a ‘people of the book’ getting even less blood money than ‘pagan’ Hindus: shouldn’t they be getting more? One would have thought that the blood money compensation for Muslims would be followed by that of Christians, then Jews, then everybody else. But Saudi Arabia’s case amply demonstrates that for all the claims of ‘people of the book’, Jews are treated worse than ‘pagans’.

(aka HeIsSailing):

Even if you don’t understand it, try listening to it in Arabic. Listen to the rhythm of it, the music of it. There is no doubt whatsoever that it is beguiling, and that much of its appeal lies in this.

Did you recite it in English or Arabic?

English. I have heard Arabic recitations, but it is gibberish to this western white boy. I have also recited portions of the Bible, and even in the English, these ancient texts contain a certain power. Anyone who has ever found reading Deuteronomy, Isaiah or the Psalms boring should try reciting them. Mesmerizing stuff. No doubt they were skilled poets.

Yes. C.L. is not his real name. You get the idea.

Christoph Luxenberg and other scholars are doing some fascinating work in this field.

Jesus-as-Myth theorists are among the fringe in Biblical scholarship, but at least they won’t loose their heads for their research. I at least hope that Mr Luxenberg and company are keeping …er… well hidden.

1. Surah 8 has only 75 verses and Surah 9 has 129. If the Quran is sorted longest to shortest from Surah 2 onwards, why is this an exception? Is Surah 9 considered a continuation of surah 8, which is one explanation as to why it doesn’t start with ‘Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim’?

Yes. And together they have 204 verses, which would make 8+9 one of the seven long suras that begin the Qur’an, and explain its placement.

2. Is 9:5 the only verse that deals with non ‘people-of-the-book’ or mushrikun/pagans, such as Buddhists, Animists, Hindus, et al? (Also, are Zoroastrians considered pagans or people of the book?)

No, there are others, as we shall see. And Zoroastrians are People of the Book.

[Somehow, 9:5 was the first surah I ever heard of even before I knew about the contents of the Quran.

Quibble: 9:5 is an ayah, not a surah.

It was widely used to demonstrate what the Quran prescribes to be done to Hindus and other non-Christians/Jews.] Also, if Jews are people of the book, why is the ‘blood-money’ for them in Saudi Arabia non existant, whereas even for Hindus, it’s a meager, but actual amount? Is it simply the fact that there are 0.9b Hindus, as opposed to 12m Jews worldwide?

Jews are not allowed into Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a special case, because of the ahadith in which Muhammad says he will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian peninsula. Also, the blood money is not the same thing as the jizya.

Re Qur’an variants, see here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/199901/koran

I was surprised at how powerful the Quran, well at least this section of it, is.

Interesting exercise. Did you recite it in English or Arabic? Arabic mp3s of Qur’anic recitation are readily available on the Net, and I do encourage those who are interested to seek them out. I do find it very powerful when recited in Arabic. Almost 20 years ago I used to frequent the Ukrainian bars in lower Manhattan with a hafiz who would chant Qur’an in Arabic at our table as we drank. No blasphemy or offense was intended, although I’m sure it would have been taken had what he was doing been understood. In any case, I loved the sound of it then, and thereafter, meaning aside.

Even with that qualifier, it does seem to me that 9:1,5 and 2:190 contradict each other, and Islamic theologians harmonize one verse with the other – which verse depending on how militant the Muslim is. Ibn Kathir, for instance, seems far more militant than Asad.

Ain’t no doubt about that a-tall. Asad, aka Leopold Weiss, was a 20th century convert from Judaism whose commentary seems intent on blunting the Qur’an’s rough edges. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a legitimate position — it just is what it is.

Mr Spencer, is there any possibility that Mohammed did not write Sura 9, but was instead written later by a militant disciple?

It’s possible. It’s also possible that he didn’t write any of the Qur’an. It’s possible that he never existed. The historical data is very, very sketchy, with the first biography of Muhammad appearing 150 years after his death. Christoph Luxenberg and other scholars are doing some fascinating work in this field.

Is zakat enforced in nations under sharia law? And if so, how?

Some Muslim states, including some that don’t enforce Sharia in its fullness collect it. Usually it’s 2.5%.

Robert, why is it that I never see you on the network Sunday talk shows?

Uh, is it because they’re produced by the clueless, the collaborationists and the dhimmis? Is this a test?

A few questions:

1. Surah 8 has only 75 verses and Surah 9 has 129. If the Quran is sorted longest to shortest from Surah 2 onwards, why is this an exception? Is Surah 9 considered a continuation of surah 8, which is one explanation as to why it doesn’t start with ‘Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim’?

2. Is 9:5 the only verse that deals with non ‘people-of-the-book’ or mushrikun/pagans, such as Buddhists, Animists, Hindus, et al? (Also, are Zoroastrians considered pagans or people of the book?)

[Somehow, 9:5 was the first surah I ever heard of even before I knew about the contents of the Quran. It was widely used to demonstrate what the Quran prescribes to be done to Hindus and other non-Christians/Jews.] Also, if Jews are people of the book, why is the ‘blood-money’ for them in Saudi Arabia non existant, whereas even for Hindus, it’s a meager, but actual amount? Is it simply the fact that there are 0.9b Hindus, as opposed to 12m Jews worldwide?

My understanding (from internet research only) is that the current Koran (in its ten or so different ‘official’ readings) was compiled nearly a generation after Mohammad’s death — during the rapid militaristic expansion of the Islamic empire. All of the originals used to develop the compilation were destroyed, even the copies kept by Muhammad’s family. The Sana documents may have been one of the copies from before this compilation. Beyond tasfir and hadith, the Koran itself may have been edited and redacted — and the Sana document may demonstrate that. But again, this is only based on internet research, which is inherently flawed.