Chinese sub pops up in the midst of a US carrier battle group
posted at 12:23 pm on November 10, 2007 by Bryan
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This qualifies as bad news.
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk – a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China’s fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was “as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik” – a reference to the Soviet Union’s first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
US Pacific Command’s Adm William Fallon says the group wasn’t conducting anti-sub operations, but the fact remains that the submarine did slip past the group’s security screen undetected and popped up within firing range of the Kitty Hawk.
“It illustrates the primary reason why we are trying to push, to have better military-to-military relationships” with China, Fallon said.
“Because the fact is that you have military units that operate in close proximity to one another,” he said, warning of “the potential for events that would not be what we’d like to see.”
The infiltration took place off Okinawa, so it not only threatened the US, but also one of our staunchest allies.
(h/t Chris R.)
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OMG!
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 12:28 PM
If this doesn’t push us to start a Reagan era style military buildup to upgrade our Air Force and Navy before it’s too late then we are completely and utterly lost. The Chinese have just delivered to us a bold faced challenge: they’re saying that they can hit us whenever they want…wherever they want and that there’s not thing one we can do to stop it.
So…what’s it going to be? Do we answer the challenge or live with hearing “The East is Red” for the next hundred years or so.
Matt Helm on November 10, 2007 at 12:28 PM
No Bryan, this does not qualify as bad new. It qualifies as catastrophic news. With China obviously engaging in economic warfare with the United States this is far worse than bad news, it is a clearly intended provocation by China.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Its a deasel Electric sub and they cna be very quiet. And its good new in the sense that it means we got a warning about this. The sub obviously made a mistake surfacing
William Amos on November 10, 2007 at 12:32 PM
This will cause some Navy officers to have very bad days.
bnelson44 on November 10, 2007 at 12:32 PM
Uh….am I missing something here or should it be “the primary reason we should not fall asleep at the wheel?”
Seems to me it was close enough for my dead granny to detect!
james hooker on November 10, 2007 at 12:32 PM
Well Jesus Christ-let’s hope it did and it should cause much consternation in our government. It will be interesting to see if any of the dinosaur media covers this at all. Clinton slashed the USN like there was no tomorrow. I’m not saying if he hadn’t this wouldn’t have happened but we know he had a close relationship with the Chicoms. Perhaps some of our Naval Intelligence resources found their way into China which helped them “sneak up” on the Kitty Hawk. Yes, electic subs can be quiet but it should have still been caught.
Catie96706 on November 10, 2007 at 12:37 PM
Guys, this happened like a year ago. Check the date on the story about Fallon. He’s now commander of CentCom, not PacCom.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 12:37 PM
I actually admire the Hell out of the Chinese Sub crew. That took some major balls.
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 12:38 PM
Clintoneering, narcissists R us campaign management.
Oh puleese, an American Admiral excusing a lapse in security with a lack of diplomacy, with a communist country?
Speakup on November 10, 2007 at 12:38 PM
I doubt it, while I recognize what the Chinese are doing, I very much suspect that there is a whole lot more to this story than this article is letting on. For instance, I doubt that the Chinese sub surfaced on accident, or of its own idea. The surface navy may not of known about that sub but you can bet your a$$ that the US Navy’s submarines knew it was there, and it surfaced because a Virginia-class sub pulled up behind it, opened her torpedo bay doors and actively pinged the Chinese sub.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 12:44 PM
I highly doubt it. It’s impossible to believe the U.S. Navy would purposely make themselves out to look inept to the world.
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 12:48 PM
Ok. Now where do we find the money for such a buildup? Reagan took us to a one trillion dollar dept out building the Russians. We are currently at nine trillion dollars in debt.
Since our two parties won’t cut spending and continue to pass pork barrel spending projects, we simply don’t have the money for a military buildup. Though I suppose we could borrow MORE money from China to do so. That would be ironic wouldn’t it?
Benaiah on November 10, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Are you kidding? This is an age old tactic. They are playing politics, this is the Navy’s way of saying to congress, well congress if you guys weren’t constantly cutting our funding then the Chinese would be able to sneak up on us like this.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 12:51 PM
AHA! So now we know why Murtha wanted to redeploy there.
Buy Danish on November 10, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Hey, folks, didn’t we already go through this? This is a VERY old story like a year or two old. We can stop with the Groundhog Day stuff.
crosspatch on November 10, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Running on battery power those things can be pretty hard to detect.
sunny on November 10, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Yea, but thats what the Virginia-class fast attack subs were designed for. They are very very good at detecting even the quietest of subs. If they can detect the newest German Dolphin class they can easily detect the Chinese subs.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 12:59 PM
Ditto
FloatingRock on November 10, 2007 at 1:00 PM
An age old tactic? Publicly humiliate your military to the world on purpose? Show the entire world how weak and vulnerable you are? You’re stretching.
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 1:01 PM
Yea, right…If Murtha had even suspected anything like this he would have been screaming to redeploy to Boise…Idaho…
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 1:01 PM
So, you’re saying Navy Commanders had Virginia-class attack subs chasing a Chinese sub around directly underneath a fleet of U.S. warships and carriers, all in secret, without anyone on the surface being aware of it? And all of this was a strategic ploy to pressure more money out of Congress?
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 1:05 PM
I find it extraordinary that so many think we did not know the sub’s presence. I am not trying to say we did know but if we did know would we be so fast to admit it? Telling others what you know is not exactly good military intelligence.
Wade on November 10, 2007 at 1:08 PM
More return on our investment of Clinton’s “peace dividend.”
Mojave Mark on November 10, 2007 at 1:08 PM
There’s quite a bit you are obviously missing here. First of all this was the USS Kitty Hawk…That alone should have told you everything you needed to know. The Kitty Hawk is the second oldest ship in the US Navy (the only ship older is “Old Ironsides”), its scheduled to be decommissioned in a matter of months. It’s keel was laid in 1956 and she was commissioned in 1960.
No this was definitely the Navy making a case for increased funding.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 1:08 PM
That’s what I thought. My first thought, was, “Not another one.”
It makes you wonder though, how close do we let a Chinese sub get to a ship holding 4,500 Americans before we send it to the bottom permanently? I can’t believe it was that much of a threat.
reaganaut on November 10, 2007 at 1:09 PM
This is old news. Fallon has been head of CENTCOM since March, 2007.
Not whithstanding the age of the incident –
“US Pacific Command’s Adm William Fallon says the group wasn’t conducting anti-sub operations,…”
WTF – The reason a carrier has a task force to protect it is so some of the ships can conduct anti-submarine operations.
This certainly leaves an opening for any enterprising terrorist group wanting to make a name for itself.
davod on November 10, 2007 at 1:10 PM
The punchline being that China is able to afford all their military advancements through all the products we purchase from them and all the manufacturing contracts they get from US companies.
Like Lenin said, “A capitalist will sell you the rope you intend to hang him with”
GogglesPisano on November 10, 2007 at 1:11 PM
So, was “Hunt for Red October” just a lot of B.S.? That’s 25-year-old technology, but even that could find a diesel sub, I’m guessing. Have we regressed technologically?
rivlax on November 10, 2007 at 1:15 PM
Pelosi and Reid have issued surrender statements
Kini on November 10, 2007 at 1:18 PM
Well the Dallas(?) had Sonarman Jones and his bionic hearing.
He could hear a lobster pass gas at 1000 yards.
reaganaut on November 10, 2007 at 1:18 PM
You maybe willing to bet your ass but I am not. How exactly do you know there was a Virginia-class sub there? This list of the Kitty Hawk Strike Group from 06 (when this incident took place) doesn’t include any subs. Sometimes the list includes subs, sometimes not.
But back in ‘06 there were only two Virginia Class boats in commission and both were homeported in Groton.
So, do you have anything other than wishful thinking to back up your brilliant strategic proclamations?
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 1:20 PM
Summer of ‘06. Old story. Why is it getting pushed now?
BTW, there was no sub in the group at the time of the incident. The group was inroute to a training area and was to meet up with the subs for the exercise in the training area.
opusrex on November 10, 2007 at 1:26 PM
Ok. Now where do we find the money for such a buildup? Reagan took us to a one trillion dollar dept out building the Russians. We are currently at nine trillion dollars in debt.
You find it or you pay the price in other ways. Like the Fram air filter guy used to say, “Pay me now–or pay me later.”
Matt Helm on November 10, 2007 at 1:27 PM
Dude you are so grasping at straws here. A submarine under the surface has almost no contact with the surface. It’s that whole radio and microwaves not propagating through water very well thing.
What exactly is it you think those Virginia-class attack subs do? Yes, thats right they trail other subs, they do so in secret, without contacting anyone regarding their whereabouts. 50 Los Angles class attack subs and 4 Virginia-class attack subs and who exactly do you think they are trailing? Surely not the Russians, they might have all of 6 subs still operating.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 1:27 PM
Sorry. I just think it’s silly. You’re saying that the U.S. Navy orchestrated a conspiracy, along with the Chinese Government, to purposely make it look as though our Navy was inept … all to convince Congress to authorize more money.
And not only that, but they PUBLICIZED it to the world!
Where have I heard this sort of thing before?
Oh yeah. 9/11 was an inside job, all because Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq.
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 1:29 PM
I’m a former Navy Sonar Tech. And I’ve never been happier to be former. The fact that no one detected anything is going to make life very miserable for them for quite a while. The famous quietness of diesel-electric boats isn’t going to save them from the wrath of the rightly embarrassed brass.
dostrick on November 10, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Maybe they had the sonar off as not to disturb the whales.
SouthernGent on November 10, 2007 at 1:34 PM
Actually, if you want to cut funding from other wasteful areas in order to fund a proper military buildup, you do the following: 1) Put into office dedicated, competent officials who put the national well-being above partisan interest or self-aggrandizement; 2) Those new officials immediately engage in a massive pork clearing exercise; 3) Begin drilling in ANWAR and in the Gulf to increase oil production–helps bring down that 100 dollar a barrel oil–of course, this is long term–but then what I’m talking about is a long term committment; 4) Get rid of the Department of Education and its bloated bureaucracy and return education to the state and local levels where it belongs; 5) Ditto with Health and Human Services–these are state and local functions–get the Federal government out of them and you’ll free up a lot of money.
These are just a few ideas from the top of my head–and note, nowhere did I mention the “T” word.
Matt Helm on November 10, 2007 at 1:34 PM
The Daily Mail’s article has this timestamp at its beginning, which would lead one to think the reported event had happened quite recently, were it not for the availability of the CBS News article for comparison. In the Daily Mail’s article, I wasn’t able to find any mention of the date of the reported event; nor was I able to find a timestamp for the original posting of the article. I’m displeased with the Daily Mail on these points.
Kralizec on November 10, 2007 at 1:38 PM
I’m not saying anything even remotely like that. What I am saying is that the surface Navy probably did miss it, but that their is little to no chance that the US Sub fleet missed it. And that the Navy brass employed spin on this incident for their own purposes. To quote wade here…
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 1:40 PM
I agree with Dorian Grey, there’s no way they could get inside on our Virginia-Class subs. I explain what probably happened here:
http://environmentalrepublican.blogspot.com/2007/11/china-shows-its-naval-power.html
sswenviron on November 10, 2007 at 1:42 PM
My cousin all but predicted this would happen (in ‘05). He used to man sonar in the CIC of one of our destroyers. He said the way the Chinese diesel-electrics could get so close scared the crap out of him. It’s one of the reasons he left the Navy.
Lancer on November 10, 2007 at 1:47 PM
No, what you said was,”The surface navy may not of known about that sub but you can bet your a$$ that the US Navy’s submarines knew it was there, and it surfaced because a Virginia-class sub pulled up behind it, opened her torpedo bay doors and actively pinged the Chinese sub.
You were quite specific about the class of submarine on the scene and the actions they took. Yet, strangely you have offered no proof of this assertion.
There were two Virginia Class subs in commission when this incident took place (both of which are based on the east coast, btw). Which one of the two was involved in snuffing out this threat with such dramatic action and threatening actions as opening, “her torpedo bay doors and actively pinged the Chinese sub”?
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 1:48 PM
The way I see it, the sub being in shooting range put it in shooting range of our weapons. We should have turned it into a hole in the water and denied everything.
CurtZHP on November 10, 2007 at 1:50 PM
May I suggest when shopping this Christmas that you DO NOT BUY items with the “Made in China” label.
China wants Taiwan Back, plain and simple.
Wuptdo on November 10, 2007 at 1:54 PM
The guy should speak for himself. They have tons of cash that they spend on military equipment. Why is it surprising that they have expensive sophisticated toys?
I agree with dorian here too. There’s no way that we did not have any subs in the area. If we did have subs, they may have gotten off ONE torpedo but that would have been it for them. And if we had subs in the area, the surface ships would not have known it.
Whether or not they forced the Chinese to show their hand is another story. I think this was a statement by the Chinese and they could have just been saber rattling.
But I agree mostly with this statement too. . .
The last Clinton that got into office gutted the military because ‘the Cold War was over’. This is the only way they can justify military spending absent actual war.
ThackerAgency on November 10, 2007 at 1:55 PM
Seriously, as I wrote on my site an DG alluded to, we may well have detected it and pinged it mercilessly. If we flooded a tube or two, they might have felt threatened and headed for the surface.
Remember, the main job of subs is to hunt and kill then bolt before anyone knows they were there. The fact that the Chinese boat showed itself is telling because it would have been infinitely smarter to get in, get data and get out.
sswenviron on November 10, 2007 at 1:57 PM
“A Year Without “Made in China”: One Family’s True Life Adventure in the Global Economy” chronicles how Sara Bongiorni and her family tried to live without buying anything produced in China.
JiangxiDad on November 10, 2007 at 1:57 PM
Do you know anything about either the US Navy or Submarines? There were three, thank you very much the USS Hawaii was a full year ahead of schedule, and guess where it is home ported…I’ll give you a hint…it’s in the name of the boat…
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 1:59 PM
That would have started WWIII
ThackerAgency on November 10, 2007 at 1:59 PM
I knew a guy who worked on one of our nuclear submarines. He said they went undetected for 6 months at a time. He considered it 5 knots to nowhere.
I find it hard to believe that someone on this message board knows for certain that there were ‘no US submarines’ in the area. If they were running military exercises I’m certain there was at least ONE there because they don’t have anything else to do anyway.
ThackerAgency on November 10, 2007 at 2:01 PM
It’s true that the Americans’ rulers have been accumulating additional trillions of dollars of national debt; however, viewing the matter proportionally is somewhat reassuring. In the 1980s, as I recall, the Americans’ national debt was about the same size as their annual gross domestic product; if Benaiah’s figure of $9 trillion for the current national debt is correct, then the debt is still about the same size as the annual GDP. A more worrisome problem is the future taxes and expenditures that would be required in order to give older Americans the twenty years of idleness their rulers have promised them.
Kralizec on November 10, 2007 at 2:02 PM
Regurgitating a year old story? Is the news media that desperate?
jdkchem on November 10, 2007 at 2:03 PM
Is there reason to be alarmed? I don’t know, I don’t think so. This event occured on October 26, 2006, more than a year ago, and was first reported (AFIK) on Novembe 14, 2006 by the Washington Times.
I believe the sub surfaced, not for “bragging rights” or propaganda purposes, but because it was forced to. The entire rationale for submarines is to NOT be noticed. If the Chinese can close to striking range of a CV at will, why on earth would they advertsize the fact? That would be a trick they would keep close to their chest, in case of a future conflict with the USA.
One also has to ask the question why did the daily mail run this story more than 1 year later? What is their agenda?
georgej on November 10, 2007 at 2:07 PM
Dude, stop. You are embarrassing yourself. From the USS Hawaii’s website:
December 22, 2006: USS Hawaii delivered to the U.S. Navy, ahead of schedule.
May 5, 2007: USS Hawaii scheduled to commission in Groton, CT.
This incident with the Kitty Hawk took place in October of 2006.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:07 PM
Or not…You don’t actually thing “The Kursk” went down on accodent do you?
USS Memphis and USS Toledo
After Kursk sank, the wargames were canceled, and two American Los Angeles-class submarines — Memphis and Toledo — put in at European ports. These two vessels, plus the Royal Naval submarine HMS Trafalgar, were monitoring the activities of the war games.[5] Some have speculated that a collision with the Toledo, which was closely shadowing the Kursk, may have led to the disaster (see below).
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 2:08 PM
Correction, that link wasn’t to the official USS Hawaii site, it was to the Navy Leagues, USS Hawaii page.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:08 PM
Sorry, I beg to differ. After the initial shock, this could turn out to be GOOD news, because now we know what we don’t know, and what it is that needs to be done. I think it’s better to have discovered this now than perhaps later.
reine.de.tout on November 10, 2007 at 2:09 PM
Are you in the Navy or some type of military buff? If you know all this stuff off the top of your head I apoligize in advance….but, doing a google search and then posting like you are God’s gift to everything is really pathetic.
O’ yeah, take the stick out of your ass.
sunny on November 10, 2007 at 2:09 PM
Who knows. It would be foolish for China to surface. Why would you alert your enemy to their weakness? Sure, it gives China some momentary glory, but, it risks losing all advantage in the future.
Now, that could be taken two different ways. Is it the “If only they would talk to us we would stay out of their way!” or is it “Tell us where your subs are in the future, or next time you risk losing it” Hard to tell.
JellyToast on November 10, 2007 at 2:12 PM
December 2, 2006: USS Hawaii successfully completes her first voyage on open seas (“alpha sea trial”).
As Drew said above …
This incident with the Kitty Hawk took place in October of 2006.
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 2:12 PM
Yesterday, I checked the bottom of my favorite coffee mug, which I’ve been using off and on for some years. Of course it has “China” printed on the bottom, so now I’m wondering how much lead is in the glaze.
Kralizec on November 10, 2007 at 2:13 PM
From the Commander Submarine Force, Pacific’s web page (you have to click on the Hawaii logo to get to this:
Commissioned: May 5, 2007 Complement: 134 officers and enlisted crew
So Doriangrey, pray tell how a submarine that wasn’t delivered to the Navy until December of ‘06 or commissioned until May of ‘07 managed to be on hand at an incident in October of of ‘06.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:14 PM
How about you quite embarrassing yourself and pay very careful attention to the information here.
Oh…Now I see dorian…The USS Hawaii was undergoing sea trails in the in the Pacific from July 06 until Dec 06. And just what exactly do you think sea trials are? Are you catching on yet?
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 2:17 PM
How do we know this happened in 2006? The Kitty Hawk is in the area doing exercises right now thatb started yesterday:
http://www.kittyhawk.navy.mil/news/Story%20Pages/Story1.htm
BTW, there also are two subs and some gators in on the exercise
sswenviron on November 10, 2007 at 2:22 PM
I’m just a old navy brat. My dad was a lifer (27 years), I lived on base until I was 17. If you aren’t a military brat you have no idea what this means, if you are, well then you do.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 2:23 PM
Before everyone gets their undies in a bunch, there’s a couple things we don’t know here. Since the early 90’s, the Carrier battle group deploys with one attack sub, however since the Kitty Hawk is a forward-deployed ship out of Yokosuka, they might not have had a sub with them. We have no subs forward deployed out of Yokosuka. If that’s the case, it would be EASY for a surface ship to be unable to detect ANY sub, let alone a Chinese diesel boat.
If they DID have an attack sub with them, I don’t see much of an excuse. It should have been detected.
In either case, I seriously doubt that this was reported in an attempt to get more money to start a military buildup. And NO ONE can say with any certainty if there were or were not US subs in the area at the time.
RMCS_USN on November 10, 2007 at 2:26 PM
So much stupidity to unpack, so little time.
Do you really think alpha trials last for 6 months? (Hint: They lasted 3 days, November 30, 2006-December 2, 2006, that was ‘her first voyage on the open seas’)
Do you really not know the difference between sea trials and being a commissioned warship?
Did you purposely ignore the fact that the boat wasn’t delivered and accepted by the Navy until December 22, 2006?
Don’t worry DG, I’ve given up trying to teach you. I just don’t want other people to be sucked into your BS.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Don’t we give them tours of our Navy technology every other week and they have all our factory technology. The War Machine is waiting for it’s moment
Drtuddle on November 10, 2007 at 2:27 PM
Whatever we need to do to make sure our Navy maintains its supremacy in the sea, we should do.
Bad Candy on November 10, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Look at the second story Bryan linked to, it’s dated in 2006. If you want to see more contemporary coverage from that period, check out this ex-sbumariners blog from that time.
BTW for the record, I never said there wasn’t a sub. I just took issue with Dorien’s grandiose statements of ‘fact’ which are BS. I did link to the Navy release about the Kitty Hawk BG and it didn’t include a sub. Not conclusive but suggestive at least.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:30 PM
Sometimes the comment threads on this blog really do justify the title.
Nowhere near enough information in this apparently quite dated article to justify leaping to ANY conclusions on the event, presuming (a very big presumption) that it took place in the way described.
CK MacLeod on November 10, 2007 at 2:30 PM
Good, because quite frankly I was getting tired of your bs.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Doriangrey, I’m not really trying to embarrass you, but you continue to push your claims with shoddy information.
You claim the sea trials were performed in the Pacific Rim, but that is incorrect. Did you just make that part of your claim up?
12/3/2006
Would you like to hazard a guess as to where the General Dynamics Electric Boat shipyard is located?
Groton, CT
You’re flat our wrong. The USS Hawaii was nowhere near this incident. Stop already.
Gregor on November 10, 2007 at 2:32 PM
Guys, former Navy nuke here…surface sailor and reactor operator from USS Enterprise. I got news for everyone who thinks this is a big deal:
The Kitty Hawk isn’t a ’supercarrier’. It’s a frickin old ass diesel rig that has been relegated to doing training missions out of Okinawa last I knew. I don’t even think they have actual fighters stationed off of her, I think they just come and use it for landing practice.
That thing doesn’t venture far from Japan, out into deep water and the IO. It, to me, is no big surprise that a state of the art shallow water Chinese sub would be able to pop up underneath it because the sonar on that thing has got to be hte tinker-toys version and the people manning it are likely straight outta A-school. They ain’t out there on deployment, they’re out there making circles in the Sea of Japan and the South China Sea for a few days a week so NUBS (non useful bodies) can play with the switches and buttons and get the protocols and procedures down and to serve as a place for pilots to practice landing their planes and helicopters. They might not even be able to handle FA-18s, not sure. Probably just helos and Vikings, and probably Marine Harriers.
But the bottom line is the Kitty Hawk getting peek-a-booed by a brand new Chinese diesel sub means zero. They MAY not have even had a US submarine escort underneath them guarding the folks topside, which is standard procedure for US carrier strike groups because I simply doubt the Kitty Hawk would ever be part of one.
Now take one of the badass Akula class hunter/killer nuke boats that the Russians sold to China and surface from deep water in the middle of an ACTUAL carrier strike group…like with the USS Reagan or Nimitz or Enterprise…THAT’S serious news.
TheGoblinKing on November 10, 2007 at 2:32 PM
My sons recruiter is a sub driver. He told me about this incident several months ago. Diesel subs are VERY quite and are a huge concern for the Navy. I don’t remember if he said we had an effective way to track them, but it seems he was giving me one of those $hit eating grins that made ou feel like he knew a lot more than he was at liberty to talk about and he was amused as heck about it. It reminded me of the time I was talking outta my a$$ to my brother about what the B-2 bomber really looked like. He built the dang thing. Same wiseenheimer look.
csdeven on November 10, 2007 at 2:35 PM
Is that the sum total of your refutation of my deconstruction of you crap?
BTW- I did forget one bit. You wrote, “The USS Hawaii was undergoing sea trails in the in the Pacific”
You were only off by half a world. The sea trials took place of Groton, Connecticut. Which, is not on the Pacific.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:36 PM
No dude, that’s me laughing at you because you think you actually know something when you obviously don’t.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 2:39 PM
You are really the type one expects to encounter at DKos or the Huffington Post.
Since you seem to be a Kursk Truther, what are your thoughts on 9/11 Truthers?
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:42 PM
Just looked at Wiki…it’s getting replaced by the USS George Washington in 2008, then it will be decommissioned and scrapped.
And I take it back, then CAN handle Hornets. There’s a Carrier Air Wing based out of Okinawa that uses her that has a few dozen FA-18s. Color me surprised.
But yeah, she’s the single and only diesel carrier left in service.
TheGoblinKing on November 10, 2007 at 2:48 PM
Dude, you seriously need to put the crack pipe down. I lived on a navy base for the first half of my life, I know how the US Navy operates. I know things about the US Navy that would turn your hair grey.
doriangrey on November 10, 2007 at 2:48 PM
csdevin,
He’s right.
TheGoblinKing on November 10, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Beat me to it, I almost was about to reply to you that there was a pic on Wiki with a FA-18C on an elevator.
Bad Candy on November 10, 2007 at 2:53 PM
Like how they can magically move Grotton, CT to the Pacific?
I have a serious question…are you just messing around or are you this delusional? You’ve made a number of statements of ‘facts’ that have been demonstrated to be false and yet you refuse to acknowledge this and continue to dig deeper.
If this is some sort of internet performance art, it’s annoying but whatever (though you may find it more effective to do the occasional quick Google search so your crap makes some sense).
If you really believe the nonsense you are spewing, get help.
Drew on November 10, 2007 at 2:54 PM
Drew, Doriangrey…
Can it or take it offline, please. Your dispute has turned into a counterproductive “flamewar.”
Thank you.
georgej on November 10, 2007 at 2:55 PM
Let’s see. In the midst of building non-combat worthy “war ships” (LPD class), the Navy decommissioned the S-3 Viking without a replacement. The H-60 helicopters currently performing ASW have neither the loiter time nor the range of sonobuoys aboard that the Viking had. We won’t even begin to discuss the efficacy of current M.A.D. technology!
Someone remind me how and when the Chinese acquired the technological sophistication to build those non-cavitating screws that are so very quiet.
MCPO Airdale on November 10, 2007 at 2:55 PM
Aircraft Carriers are amazing, but I have to say, you gotta love the old battleships, this pic of the USS Iowa firing its guns is awesome. I used a smaller sized version of it for my Veterans Day post.
Bad Candy on November 10, 2007 at 2:58 PM
Someone remind me how and when the Chinese acquired the technological sophistication to build those non-cavitating screws that are so very quiet.
MCPO Airdale on November 10, 2007 at 2:55 PM
This is a rhetorical question right?
Read all about it in Bill Gertz’s book “Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security.” Or you can read the Cox Report at CNN’s website or at the House’s web site,
georgej on November 10, 2007 at 3:08 PM
georgej – Yes, it was a rhetorical question. Amazing how Billary keeps getting money from Chinese interests for this run at POTUS, isn’t it? Wish I was smart enough to understand what “quid pro quo” means. /sarc
MCPO Airdale on November 10, 2007 at 3:12 PM
Look at the shock waves! I’ve seen WWII movie clips of sailors on deck when those go off, so I asked my son how cool is it to be on deck when they fire the 5″ gun. “Uh, dad, no one is allowed on deck when those are fired because of the concussion”. I cannot imagine being on deck when a 16″ gun is fired. Awesome firepower!
csdeven on November 10, 2007 at 3:21 PM
What an understatement!!!
I suspect part of the reason for this was that nitwit Carter allowing computer milling machines to be sold to China years ago. Suddenly the Russian subs became much quieter, and we now see how quiet Chinese subs are.
The milling machines allow milling the screw from a single piece of bronze, which allows their subs to run much quieter.
Thanks Jimmah. D@mn fool!
91Veteran on November 10, 2007 at 3:24 PM
I know, right? Look at those huge bowls of water where the blasts depressed them, its so neat. I knew it was the perfect pic for my Veterans Day post. Be sure to tell your son thanks for his service.
Bad Candy on November 10, 2007 at 3:25 PM
Aircraft Carriers are amazing, but I have to say, you gotta love the old battleships, this pic of the USS Iowa firing its guns is awesome. I used a smaller sized version of it for my Veterans Day post.
Bad Candy on November 10, 2007 at 2:58 PM
Then you’ll love this picture.
georgej on November 10, 2007 at 3:29 PM
Propaganda flows not only from the NYT…This is just a partial story and so it should remain.
Entelechy on November 10, 2007 at 3:30 PM
who’s minding the fleet? Homer Simpson?
madmonkphotog on November 10, 2007 at 3:32 PM
I think there has always been a role for battleships. You cannot stop a two or three ton projectile.
JellyToast on November 10, 2007 at 3:41 PM
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