CBS: Uh, Germans lied, people died?
posted at 3:25 pm on November 6, 2007 by Bryan
Not exactly, but the truth seems to be that a particular Iraqi defector did lie, and he was believed by the Germans, who passed on his lies to us, and we ended up going to war in part based on those lies. The defector is the infamous Curve Ball, who has now been revealed as Rafid Ahmed Alwan, an Iraqi who defected to Germany in 1999.
How did Rafid Alwan become Curve Ball? 60 Minutes’ investigation led us to Germany, where in November 1999, Alwan arrived by car and requested asylum at a refugee center outside Nuremberg. The 32-year-old told German intelligence that he was a chemical engineer in Saddam’s Iraq, and that he had done so well in university he had been made director of a site at Djerf al Nadaf, just outside Baghdad. The Iraqis called it a “seed purification plant.” In reality, he said, the place was secretly making mobile biological weapons.
He told the Germans specially-equipped trucks made their way to one end of a warehouse, entered doors there, hooked up to hoses and pumps and brewed biological agents. The germ trucks then exited hidden doors on the other side.
Alwan’s story fit what Western intelligence agencies feared: that Saddam might turn to mobile weapons to evade American bombs. The Germans hid Alwan in Nuremberg, then later in the town of Erlangen. He was given a code name: Curve Ball. He was interrogated once a week, sometimes twice, for a year and a half. He told the Germans he didn’t want to meet with Americans. Only summaries of his debriefings were transmitted to Washington. Still, there were enough details to convince analysts at the CIA.
“Curve Ball was the one piece of evidence where they could say, ‘Look at this. If they have this capability, where they can transport biological weapons, anthrax, all these horrible weapons, they can attack our troops with them. They can give them to terrorist groups,’” Drumheller says.
Similar logic led to the August 1998 US bombing of a pharma plant in Sudan: It was suspected of being a dual-use facility that was making chemical weapons for Saddam and al Qaeda on the side, so Clinton hit it with Tomahawks. Where was Dennis Kucinich to argue that that strike was illegal under international law? The point is, the belief that Iraq was working on WMDs and was in cahoots with terrorists didn’t start with the eeevil BushCo in 2001. It formed much of US foreign policy throughout the 1990s.
Read the entire CBS article. The biggest of several takeaways from it is that Curve Ball had no connection to the Iraqi National Congress whatsoever, so accusations that he was in league with them to cook up a story to get the US to take out Saddam are unfounded. A second takeaway is that our intel agencies really don’t seem to know very much. They look at a few satellite pictures, they get some second-hand info from what turns out to be an entirely bogus source, or in Joseph Wilson’s case they sit around by a pool sipping tea and talking to the local bigwigs. If that’s an accurate picture of our intelligence agencies, then two things are true. One, the paranoia wrapped up in the whole wiretapping debate is overblown. Two, we’re fighting this war blind, and therefore we’re screwed.










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A nice graph of the Cuts Clinton did to the CIA and military during this time would be helpful
Also would explain why our intelligence failed so badly
William Amos on November 6, 2007 at 3:30 PM
John Kerry-Heinz will comment in 3+ years.
OhEssYouCowboys on November 6, 2007 at 3:32 PM
Josh Marshall will have more on this later.(1)
1)John Kerry timeline may be in effect.
gabriel sutherland on November 6, 2007 at 3:42 PM
The
Cathartic
Biased
Simpleton
News, actually thought they could develop a classified source and actually expected they would be trusted and the source would actually tell them the truth at the risk of personal harm?
If you say so Jackson.
Speakup on November 6, 2007 at 3:50 PM
Seriously… Although don’t make it too “cutesy”…
liquidflorian on November 6, 2007 at 3:52 PM
There is a huge list of things from the UN’s list that are unaccounted for…they didn’t just dissapear because we couldn’t find them. This really worries me.
tomas on November 6, 2007 at 3:54 PM
True, Kerry regularly made the case from 1990-2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1074054/posts
Anyway, I still think there’s plenty of evidence to suggest Saddam did have some of these weapons and that they were moved to/through Syria.
RightWinged on November 6, 2007 at 4:15 PM
Did anyone check to see if “Curve Ball” was an oil man, who profited from the invasion – you know, like Bushco has?
SARCASM
Rick on November 6, 2007 at 4:16 PM
So you mean to tell me that the Liberal media lied,
again,I’m shocked,and the Germans lied,and the media
lied about Bush about WMD,then the media tried to
portray the Bush Administration as the “Third Reich”.
Well now it all fits together,the Germans lied—-and
the news media tried to pin it on Bush,and the news media
are trying to spin world opinion against their own country.
So it was those crafty Germans and Lying America news agencies all along,—go figure!
canopfor on November 6, 2007 at 4:25 PM
Anyway,I still think there’s plenty of evidence to suggest
Saddam did have some of these weapons and that they were moved to/through Syria.
Rightwinged on November 6,2007 at 4:15PM.
RightWinged:Thats a bingo.
1- He gassed a Kurdish village,women and children.
( I know your aware of this)
2-And during the First Gulf War,Operation Desert Storm,
for some reason he sent most of his Airforce,his fighters
over to Iran,knowing the United States Airpower would
decimate them.
So,if he sent his planes over to his enemy,then your
absolutely correct,anything is very possible.
canopfor on November 6, 2007 at 4:48 PM
Okay, Bryan, you of all people know better than to buy into all the psyops involved in this.
;)
The first rule of psyops is to make everyone in the public media believe you don’t really know anything. Thereby leading the public media into concocting all sorts of wrong-headed notions to confuse any and all who hear the news.
Lawrence on November 6, 2007 at 4:58 PM
The fact that they were still shooting at U.S. Jets was enough.
And even without this, why was Saddam telling the world he had them?
- The Cat
MirCat on November 6, 2007 at 5:10 PM
Hmmm… problem is that I remember seeing pictures of these mobile labs…
Has it been PROOVEN that this guy lied?
Romeo13 on November 6, 2007 at 6:13 PM
I thought the Iraqi pilots that flew to Iran were deserting, not acting under orders. Wouldn’t Saddam have rather sent his planes to Syria, given his history with Iran?
As far as the theory that he moved his WMDs to Syria just before we invaded, I am sorry but I cannot see that theory as credible for the following two reasons:
One, we are to believe that he held on to his most powerful weapons, and then, right when he needs them most, when his rule and his life are on the line, he sends them out of the country instead of using them on US troops? Given all I know about Saddam, this makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Two, if he did send the weapons into Syria, why didn’t he try to bargain with them for his life after he was handed the death sentence? Think about it: He never said in the trial (or elsewhere that we know about) that he had sent them to Syria. If he had done so, and let himself be hung rather than give up that information, that would make him a martyr for Syria. Is anyone here willing to believe that Saddam was willing to be a martyr for anyone?
If anyone has credible answers to my objections, I would like to hear them.
Lancer on November 6, 2007 at 7:25 PM
You seem to have left out the part in which the Germans told our CIA that Curveball’s assertions about WMD were “unconfirmed.” It was in a letter sent to Tenet.
sandman on November 6, 2007 at 7:36 PM
I think Rafid Ahmed Alwan lied to the Germans and therefore the CIA (and CBS as well).
I think we ought to waterboard him to get the truth.
And then waterboard him a second time to see if he tells the same story a second time.
And then, in a 2 out of 3 confidence check, waterboard him a 3rd time. Just to make sure.
And to make sure that CBS is telling us the straight scoop, waterboard the producers, the writers, the cameramen/women, and Bob Simon, too. After all, he was captured and tortured by Saddam during the Gulf War. So his USED to it, and able to repeat the lies. So, waterboard him, waterboard him HARD!
BTW. I’m putting my waterboard up on EBay, just in case anybody wants to do their own waterboarding, too.
georgej on November 7, 2007 at 1:58 AM
I don’t really care about this. Saddam manufactured and used chemical weapons on his own people. Over 400,000 people have been unearthed in some 307 mass graves across the Iraqi landscape. There were at least seven of these graves discovered outside of Talil Air Base near An Nasiriyah when I was there. Somehow, the media loses sight of what Saddam did and gets into this game of “who lied???” scenario. This is the root of the “illegal war” argument. Liberals have this sense of “historic amnesia” when it comes to fact.
This article enlightens to show where the confusion was created, but the true underlying fact is Saddam was a murderer who sponsored terrorism and committed inhuman acts of torture against Iraqis and Kuwaitis.
Here in Europe where I’m stationed, Europeans have this air about them that they are more nuanced and intelligent than Americans. They twist fact to make Saddam out to be a victim who was only acting in the best interest of his people despite the EVIL SANCTIONS the US enforced, and he didn’t deserve to be ousted. Many actually say he NEVER killed his own people and the entire idea was manufactured by Bush to steal oil for Haliburton.
Ridiculous.
Black Adam on November 7, 2007 at 2:52 AM
Bryan,
An acceptable level of paranoia is necessary for any intelligence gathering agency, just for the margin of security it provides. And when you say “this war”, if you mean the GWOT, we aren’t so much blind, as wearing blinders. If you mean Iraq in particular, please remember that there is no war happening in Iraq. We won that very quickly, and are the occupying force working with the nascent Iraqi government to craft a better future for themselves. That we continue to be opposed by those who want Iraq to remain a dictatorship under tyrannical rule, is not war per se.
Just saying.
RE: misinformation and psyops, wouldn’t the CIA always want heir enemies to believe that they are incompetent? So they have made an art of allowing information into the media that shows them to be incompetent. That some of it is true merely enhances the believability of the rest. They might not always have all their stuff in one sock, but they are by far the best around.
Freelancer on November 7, 2007 at 4:32 PM