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Rasmussen: Hillary gained five points after Tuesday night’s debate? Update: New Edwards ad nukes Hillary for flip-flopping

posted at 1:13 pm on November 2, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Caveats apply: small sample, big margin of error, media dust hasn’t settled yet. But.

Tuesday night’s debate was not Hillary Clinton’s finest moment of the campaign season, but there has been little or no immediate damage to her standing in the national polls. In fact, if anything, support for Clinton has ticked up a bit since she stumbled on an answer to questions about drivers licenses for illegal aliens.

Data from the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll shows that on the two nights following the debate (Wednesday and Thursday) Clinton held a 45% to 18% lead over Barack Obama. For Clinton, that’s an improvement from Monday and Tuesday nights when her lead over Obama had been 40% to 24%

Separate survey data shows that political pundits and junkies are likely to overestimate the immediate impact of Clinton’s debate performance. Much of the nation was simply not paying attention. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of 800 Likely Voters nationwide found that just 56% knew that the Democrats were the party with a Presidential debate this week. Thirteen percent (13%) thought it was the GOP’s turn while 31% are not sure.

Just 38% could pick immigration from a list of four issues as the topic that caused Clinton to stumble near the end of the debate. Eleven percent (11%) picked the War in Iraq, 5% health care, 4% the economy, 6% “some other topic”, and 36% admitted they didn’t know.

The only thing I can think of to explain the bump is if people tuned in earlier in the evening and caught a few minutes. Obama and Edwards couldn’t lay a glove on her; even the boss was compelled to say, “She is looking solid and grown-up. The men are nervous, small, and nutty.” But how many people could we be talking about there? Surely not five percent. Either it’s simple statistical error or something else besides the debate is driving this. Er, but what? Any theories?

Meanwhile, the Republican “electability” beauty contest appears to be over. Note in particular the amazing results on page 2. Exit question: Everyone beats Fred?

Update: Silky’s latest spot is getting raves. The segment at the end with the illegal licenses is all fair game but the first two, on Iraq and social security, are sophistry. Her Iraq position is standard Baker-Hamilton: withdraw most combat troops but leave a small residual force behind for targeted missions against Al Qaeda and to protect military trainers. Her position on social security appears to be that she wants certain other economic measures taken before rolling out any measures to fix the program. Not really that “nuanced,” Silky.

That said, this is indeed the umpteen-thousandth case of Hillary being purposely vague so that she can’t be held to any position — a habit most recently identified by Krauthammer as the reason why Republicans ultimately could live with her as president. She has no principles. She’s a pragmatist of the highest order.


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WTF?

Wade on November 2, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Well, hopefully her stumble was saved for posterity and will live on in aggressively directed advertisements that portray her….poorly

Leonidas Hoplite on November 2, 2007 at 1:16 PM

Don’t believe it.

apostle53 on November 2, 2007 at 1:17 PM

If a tree falls in a forest and MSM doesn’t cover it, does it make a sound?

petefrt on November 2, 2007 at 1:17 PM

If a tree falls in a forest and MSM doesn’t cover it, does it make a sound?

Exactly.

Leonidas Hoplite on November 2, 2007 at 1:19 PM

Oh yea of little faith! Go Fred!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on November 2, 2007 at 1:20 PM

Public perception normally is a lagging indicator. Give it a couple of days…

bnelson44 on November 2, 2007 at 1:21 PM

Posted this on another thread but it is relavent here as well. Edwards came out with a great add on Hillary

bnelson44 on November 2, 2007 at 1:22 PM

Note in particular the amazing results on page 2.

I see it all in one page. Which particular amazing results?

peski on November 2, 2007 at 1:23 PM

Hillary always gets the best numbers when she plays the “Victim” card.

So its very possible that was what this bounce is all about

William Amos on November 2, 2007 at 1:25 PM

The Hillary numbers surprise me a little though I’d give it a few weeks to adjust. But the Fred-Thompson-loses-to-everyone conclusion doesn’t surprise me a bit. Thompson’s support was ‘Net oriented to begin with, and when that started to sour as he waited (too long) to make the plunge, his trump card — that is, his only hand — evaporated with it. I remember seeing him declare on Leno and thinking, is he really running or just going along with everyone else? When he ran off the stage before Leno had finished the transition to commercial, I realized he was pretty clearly a “Not Ready for Primetime Player.” His politics are fine, but he is not who people hoped he would be when they were seeing his video shorts and their companion pieces, and that’s a painful realization for those looking for the next “Ronald Reagan.”

Vizzini on November 2, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Someone’s cackling today.

JammieWearingFool on November 2, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Those Dem numbers are for likely primary voters, which are a different breed than normal people.

Nice to see that it didn’t take long for people to see through Fred. Looks like he just have waited until the week before the primary to enter the race.

pedestrian on November 2, 2007 at 1:26 PM

If a tree falls in a forest and MSM doesn’t cover it, does it make a sound?

petefrt on November 2, 2007 at 1:17 PM

Or, it could be that the MSM covered the story from a different angle, showing how the poor tree was picked on by some mean, old loggers (while not really focusing on all the facts).

Rick on November 2, 2007 at 1:29 PM

Vizzini on November 2, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Well said. That pretty much encapsulates the course of my support for Fred?

peski on November 2, 2007 at 1:31 PM

Update: New Edwards ad nukes Hillary for flip-flopping

Pot meet kettle.

Rick on November 2, 2007 at 1:34 PM

Update: New Edwards ad nukes Hillary for flip-flopping
Pot meet kettle.

Rick on November 2, 2007 at 1:34 PM

Well Edwards isnt a flip flopper hes just totally flipped his wig

William Amos on November 2, 2007 at 1:35 PM

That is a brilliant ad.

MikeZero on November 2, 2007 at 1:38 PM

she can’t be held to any position — a habit most recently identified by Krauthammer as the reason why Republicans ultimately could live with her as president. She has no principles. She’s a pragmatist of the highest order.

Does it mean that she has no principles — or that she’s not going to divulge her principles before the general election?

aunursa on November 2, 2007 at 1:42 PM

peski on November 2, 2007 at 1:23 PM

I’d assume this part:

Giuliani maintains at least a 40-point lead over the three other leading Republican candidates in these head-to-head comparisons — 77% to 20% against Thompson, 75% to 21% against Romney, and 69% to 29% against McCain. McCain fares the next best on this series of measures, outpolling both Thompson (61% to 36%) and Romney (57% to 39%). Romney edges out Thompson in their one-on-one matchup, 50% to 43%….

Now, however, fewer Americans say McCain has a better chance than Giuliani of being elected president than did so in February, and slightly more Americans say Romney has a better chance than Giuliani of being elected president.

amerpundit on November 2, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Look the dems know what they are getting with the clintons. And they dont care.

The Clintons turn on the money spigot and that is all the dems really care about. That is the one core issue that the have.

William Amos on November 2, 2007 at 1:46 PM

aunursa on November 2, 2007 at 1:42 PM

Both.

BacaDog on November 2, 2007 at 1:46 PM

I don’t think The Beasts drivers license position was any more nuanced than social security or Iraq. It’s just the tone of her delivery is consistently to belittle the listener for questioning her wisdom.

She’s already divulged her principle: she’s the smartest person on the planet and the rest of us should just get out of her way.

pedestrian on November 2, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Nice ad…nothing like a little girl on girl action

Edwards vs. Hilldawg what a choice.

sunny on November 2, 2007 at 1:50 PM

I knew it wouldn’t hurt her. Nothing ever does. People who plan to vote for her know darn good and well already that she’s an unprincipled, power-hungry socialist, and they still want her to be president. She could admit that she eats live puppies for breakfast and they’d still vote for her. Morons.

aero on November 2, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Wow, that was a very effective technique to have the two images play side-by-side in the ad.

Clark1 on November 2, 2007 at 1:55 PM

hillary is playing us all, she is a clinton, they are the political genius of our age, only matched by Rove. She knows what she is doing. Infact i think she wants the polls to tighten, because her being so far ahead leaves her open to take fire. I think they will tighten because the MSM have been all over the hillary story since the debate.

Michelle was right on the night the men looked petty and vindictive, she looked presidential imo.

zane on November 2, 2007 at 1:57 PM

Now that Hillary has developed her own brand of teflon (don’t gang up on the girl) let’s see how long it takes before Silky sends for his wife.

swami on November 2, 2007 at 1:58 PM

Great ad.

I could hear the collective “Lalalala not listening” from the great multitude of Hillary supporters out there.

aero on November 2, 2007 at 2:04 PM

Either it’s simple statistical error or something else besides the debate is driving this. Er, but what? Any theories?

It is simply that the “invincibility factor” has kicked in. Her only two serious contenders were found lacking, so she is the it girl. Of all the mistakes that were made by team Clinton they never came off track. The only thing that the Republican nominee can take from this is how not to fight this candidate.

sweeper on November 2, 2007 at 2:05 PM

Yeah I trust those numbers alright. Did we poll illegals too? Buyer beware! The Soro’s, Clinton mechanism has a stranglehold on our MSM,and emanates any spin they want anytime they they want. So whats not to say they have gravitated into polling numbers. I seem to remember all the premature celebration based on the exit polls from the 04 Presidential election. As for Rudy he couldn’t win the South, if he whistled dixie while wrapped in a confederate flag, that goes for Mitt as well. Although I have it from a reliable source that Rudy has already tapped Florida’s Gov. Crist for the VP slot, still could Rudy just be a red herring tool being used unknowingly by the left? People need to get a grip on our candidates motives and politics, then unite behind him. This one is for the whole enchilada!

sonnyspats1 on November 2, 2007 at 2:06 PM

From the article Allah linked regarding Republican electability:

Public: Giuliani Has Best Chance of Defeating Clinton

In the immortal words of Gunnery Sgt. Hartman: “Well…..no sh*t.”

Vyce on November 2, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Rasmussen must have the list of phone numbers from American Idol voters.

reaganaut on November 2, 2007 at 2:22 PM

It’s way too early to be doing polls on this particular debate. While people may have missed it as it occurred (as did I) this story is gaining steam in the media, and if nothing else Obama and Edwards are not going to let it go away – not to mention those of us on the Right.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 2:22 PM

The majority of people only know of 2 people running on the Dem ticket, Clinton and Obama, if they know that and that is simply because of the amount of exposure they get. Ask those same Democrat “voters” who Bill Richardson is and you most likely will get a blank stare.
It is the same thing on the Republican side. Besides Giuliana (somebody come up with a nickname cause I sure can’t spell his name) and Romney, maybe Thompson you would get the same reaction.
I am talking your normal run of the mill, man on the street type and not the political junkies who inhabit the blogs. The average American is only aware of who the mass market media wants them to be aware of.

LakeRuins on November 2, 2007 at 2:24 PM

Wow, Silky’s vestigal testicles just dropped.

Very effective side-by-side ad. Even more effective since the clips were from the same 2 hour debate, not over the course of a 2 year campaign.

Cuffy Meigs on November 2, 2007 at 2:28 PM

Oh yea of little faith! Go Fred!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on November 2, 2007 at 1:20 PM

Which faith are you referring to?

Perhaps you are referring to the Islamist faith of Fred Thompson’s campaign director, Spencer Abraham.

You might not have heard about him, considering that Fred lied about employing this radical jihadist as his campaign director.

Loundry on November 2, 2007 at 2:31 PM

Perhaps you are referring to the Islamist faith of Fred Thompson’s campaign director, Spencer Abraham.

You might not have heard about him, considering that Fred lied about employing this radical jihadist as his campaign director.

Loundry on November 2, 2007 at 2:31 PM

Dude, that is a smear from a small minded moron.

And I don’t even support Fred.

sweeper on November 2, 2007 at 2:37 PM

Perhaps you are referring to the Islamist faith of Fred Thompson’s campaign director, Spencer Abraham.

You might not have heard about him, considering that Fred lied about employing this radical jihadist as his campaign director.

Spence Abraham isn’t a radical jihadist… he isn’t even a muslim, you goddamned idiot. And he’s not the campaign director, either.

Watcher on November 2, 2007 at 2:40 PM

a habit most recently identified by Krauthammer as the reason why Republicans ultimately could live with her as president.

I like Mr. Krauthammer for his superior intellect, but his article on topic was a disappointment. His opposition should be without any doubt, and principled.

She has no principles. She’s a pragmatist of the highest order.

My number one reason for opposing her is because she’s an idealistic socialist political whore. Her scalawag husband stands for more than she does, and that’s some reference.

“Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.”
– Alexander Hamilton

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 2:41 PM

Imagine Golda Meir, Benazir Bhutto, Indira Gandhi or Margaret Thatcher playing the “…ganging up on ‘poor me little girl’” – puke!!!

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 2:46 PM

SUPREME COURT!

Any time Republicans start saying things like “we could live with Hillary” we must make them remember that the next President will very likely pick between 2 – 4 new Supreme Court Justices. This could remake the Court for one to two generations.

We CANNOT lose sight of the Supreme Court as the biggest reason we must defeat Hillary.

The other is socialized Medicine, which will be very likely to pass with Hillary and a Democrat Congress(and some weak Republicans) if she’s President. This will also essentially destroy Conservatism.

And then there’s immigration… No hope of getting anything done if she’s there, and we’ll likely creep closer to Republican party-killing amnesty.

But the SUPREME COURT should be scary enough to stop such dangerous complacent talk.

daviddunn on November 2, 2007 at 2:49 PM

Edwards vs. Hilldawg what a choice.

sunny on November 2, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Hmm, dawg and pony show.

Rick on November 2, 2007 at 3:00 PM

The Economist -
A year before polling day (and only two months before the first primary) the Republican nomination is wide open. Can Rudy Giuliani maintain his lead?


But many Republicans fall into a third category—they are simply unaware that Mr Giuliani is socially liberal. A recent Gallup poll found that only 37% knew he was pro-choice and only 18% knew he favoured civil unions for gays.

This makes the race for the Republican nomination extremely hard to predict. As the primaries draw near, will voters learn more about Mr Giuliani and reject him?

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:01 PM

The problem with these polls:

Hillary made herself a fool late in the debate, but there wasnt any immediate large damage in thepolls because…

There is nowhere else for the Dems to realistically go.

The bloom is off Obama’s rose… he has no passion or enthusiasm and seems like he is running for student council president instead of POTUS.

Edwards is a slimy craven slicker, who has already been on a losing ticket and is the darling of only the kos/moveon crowd who want to disband the US military.

So where is the “Hillary support” supposed to go… if she muffs a question who is going to STEP UP big time and take advantage.. as we saw the other night, the answer is NO ONE.

So she will continue to skate inthe Democrat polls… but how she does vs the GOP nominee is a whole ‘nuther ballgame.

Always Right on November 2, 2007 at 3:06 PM

You know, someone here at HA suggested this exact format for an ad by the reps. Great call whoever you are.

Dem or rep, it serves the purpose of hoisting her on her own petards.

Today is a good day. :-)

csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 3:09 PM

Any time Republicans start saying things like “we could live with Hillary” we must make them remember that the next President will very likely pick between 2 – 4 new Supreme Court Justices. This could remake the Court for one to two generations.

We CANNOT lose sight of the Supreme Court as the biggest reason we must defeat Hillary.

But the SUPREME COURT should be scary enough to stop such dangerous complacent talk.

daviddunn on November 2, 2007 at 2:49 PM

Even if a Republican wins the Presidency in 2008, which at this point seems at least fairly unlikely, he will not be able to nominate a Roberts or an Alito and get him confirmed. Period. The Democrats are in a majority in the Senate and given various factors are almost certain to increase their lead there and probably substantially. A Republican President might, just might, be able to get a Kennedy or O’Conner confirmed, maybe, but that’s about it. On the other hand if a President Clinton were to nominate a Ginsberg, the Republicans in the Senate would filibuster like their was no tomorrow.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:09 PM

Hillary=Hitlery=Totalitarian State that is governed by the United Nations.

1.Dismantle Capitalism

2.Dismantel Military

3. Confiscate guns

4. Confer with UN on national policy

5. The rest plays out like an Arnold Schwantzenberger movie!

sonnyspats1 on November 2, 2007 at 3:10 PM

On the other hand if a President Clinton were to nominate a Ginsberg, the Republicans in the Senate would filibuster like their was no tomorrow.

Right. Like they did with, say, Ginsberg?

Slublog on November 2, 2007 at 3:24 PM

Love that split screen stomp – every effective.

T J Green on November 2, 2007 at 3:24 PM

4. Confer with UN on national policy

sonnyspats1 on November 2, 2007 at 3:10 PM

You might well have that one right, to a fair degree anyway, but the others that’s so chicken little.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Right. Like they did with, say, Ginsberg?

Slublog on November 2, 2007 at 3:24 PM

Well if they have learned absolutely nothing from that mistake, then there is no hope for them anyway, none at all.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 2:41 PM

I agree with you about Krauthammer.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:09 PM

There is NO WAY that another Gingsburg or Kennedy will sit on the Supreme Court if we have a Republican President. NONE.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Nice to see a wealthy trial lawyer perfecting the GOP’s ads for next year.

fred5678 on November 2, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Well if they have learned absolutely nothing from that mistake, then there is no hope for them anyway, none at all.

I just don’t have any hope of them growing a spine.

Slublog on November 2, 2007 at 3:32 PM

Hillary=Hitlery=Totalitarian State that is governed by the United Nations.

sonnyspats1 on November 2, 2007 at 3:10 PM

OK then:
Rudolf=II Duce=Mafia like State that is run by control freak Rudy and his cronies serving only their capo.
*

Giuliani’s seemingly insatiable appetite for authority was evident, first and foremost, in the way he ran his administration. Obsessed, as always, with loyalty, he demanded that power be centralized in his hands and that he receive credit for any of the administration’s achievements. Even the Department of Environmental Protection’s daily reports on the water level in the reservoir had to be cleared through Giuliani’s press office before being released. He also replaced Dinkins-era officials with loyalists, some of whom had little preparation for their jobs. Tony Carbonetti, the grandson of Harold Giuliani’s friend, was put in charge of the Office of Appointments, even though his previous experience consisted mostly of running a bar in Boston. According to Kirtzman, “one agency estimated that, of patronage hires, 60 percent were qualified, 20 percent had no experience, and 20 percent were ‘dirtbags.’ ” Among these hires was Carbonetti’s father, who was named director of the Community Assistance Unit. He was forced to resign after admitting that he had two driver’s licenses and had failed to pay $156,000 in liens and judgments against one of his businesses.

The most important casualty of this process was Bratton, who, besides Giuliani himself, was most responsible for the administration’s early success. Whenever the press gave too much credit to Bratton, the police chief and his spokesman John Miller would be called into city hall to be bawled out by Giuliani loyalists. Miller was finally forced to quit. After Time put Bratton on its cover in January 1996, an enraged Giuliani had City Hall attorneys begin investigating his personal expenses. That was enough for Bratton. He quit two months later.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:42 PM

I just don’t have any hope of them growing a spine.

Slublog on November 2, 2007 at 3:32 PM

Then vote third party.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:43 PM

Then vote third party.

Voting third party to get the Republicans to pay attention to you is like divorcing your wife to get more ‘business time.’

No, thanks.

Slublog on November 2, 2007 at 3:47 PM

Slublog, agree – a third party is desperately needed in this country but a charming and competent strong leader needs to emerge to make it happen. Not there and at this time it would murder one of the two strong parties. That time, however, will come, just not in ‘08.

Off topic – Bratton is on my s-list more often than not. On the one hand he’s effective and on the other he’s a media whore who’s done more for PR and for illegal immigration and media stunts than just doing the right thing for LA and country.

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 3:50 PM

MB4 hopes we will vote for a third party. That in itself is enough reason not to do it, no matter how disenchanted one might be with our crop of candidates.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 3:51 PM

The poll or the report, or both are complete rubbish.

dogsoldier on November 2, 2007 at 3:51 PM

Don’t vote for or against what MB4 writes. Vote for what you believe in to be best for your country, and thus for you and yours. MB4 is a smart and playful cookie who can argue any point for or against. Play with him because it’s lots of fun but vote your beliefs.

If he wishes to retain his freedoms for all things good and beautiful he’ll also vote conservative in the end. If not, he’s a free man to do whatever he pleases. I for one will still like him becaue I enjoy differing banter. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t. That’s one of the beauties of HA. It’s not an ossified forum, leftie or rightie.

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 3:57 PM

There is NO WAY that another Gingsburg or Kennedy will sit on the Supreme Court if we have a Republican President. NONE.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 3:31 PM

So Ronald Reagan was not a Republican in your mind then?

MB4 hopes we will vote for a third party. That in itself is enough reason not to do it, no matter how disenchanted one might be with our crop of candidates.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 3:51 PM

That is a blatant falsehood. I am hoping that Tancredo or Hunter or Romney or Thompson gets the Republican nomination and people will vote for him.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 3:58 PM

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 3:57 PM

Entelechy,
You are a diamond in a bin of coal.
- Somebody or other

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Dear Somebody or other, thanks for the much needed smiles.

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Voting third party to get the Republicans to pay attention to you is like divorcing your wife to get more ‘business time.’

No, thanks.

Voting third party to get the Republicans to pay attention to you is like divorcing your wife that witch Hillary to get even more ‘business time. sack time with some more hot babes!

Yes, thanks, I’ll have another.

- Bill Clinton

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 4:16 PM

MB4

We have learned our lessons when it comes to the Supreme Court.

I’m glad to see that you are letting us know who you would support because I have to say that other than Fred, it has not been evident that anyone was acceptable to your exacting standards.

Obviously Tancredo or Hunter are not in the running. That leaves Romney and Guiliani, and possibly but not probably, Fred.

You have exactly 4 choice on election day:

You can vote for one of them (and with the help of people like you we can win), you can go with a Third Party and elect the Dem nominee by default, you can vote for the Dem nominee, or you can stay home.

Only one of those choices is of any immediate or lasting value to the Republican agenda. Guess which one that is!

I also wouldn’t be too sure the Dems will hold Congress. Bush is doing a great job right of chasing their sorry tails right now and this could turn on a dime.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 4:17 PM

I also wouldn’t be too sure the Dems will hold Congress. Bush is doing a great job right of chasing their sorry tails right now and this could turn on a dime.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Indeed – 2008 will be one of the most interesting years in a long time. And there will be many contra-media-assumed-and-desired outcomes.

Entelechy on November 2, 2007 at 4:27 PM

You can vote for one of them (and with the help of people like you we can win), you can go with a Third Party and elect the Dem nominee by default, you can vote for the Dem nominee, or you can stay home.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 4:17 PM

When Gore lost in 2000, many democrats blamed Ralph Nader, when the fault was with Gore and those who nominated him. Same rules apply now.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 4:41 PM

I also wouldn’t be too sure the Dems will hold Congress.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 4:17 PM

In 2008, the Republicans have almost twice as many seats up in the Senate as do the democrats, plus the Republicans have a number of retirements. There is almost no way that the democrats will not make further gains in the Senate, which they already have a majority in. Very best plausable case for Republicans is that the democrats only gain a couple of seats and the Republicans correspondingly only lose a couple. That is the very best, bar an “Act of God”.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 4:47 PM

That John Edwards ad is pretty good. That should knock Hillary down a peg.

SoulGlo on November 2, 2007 at 4:51 PM

It doesn’t seem to matter to Hillary supporters what she says or does, they’ll still support her. It’s some kind of blind faith thing I think. She could take up serial killing and they wouldn’t notice or if they did, find some way to excuse it. Truly formidable!!

jeanie on November 2, 2007 at 5:18 PM

When Gore lost in 2000, many democrats blamed Ralph Nader, when the fault was with Gore and those who nominated him. Same rules apply now.

MB4 on November 2, 2007 at 4:41 PM

Rules? It’s not about “rules”, it’s about handing the White House over to a Democrat who will do irreparable harm to this nation.

Al Gore was a poor candidate, and in comparison any one of ours (except for Ron Paul) are a thousand times better than that phony, clueless jackass.

It sounds like you (and others) are trying to blackmail voters. It is maddening, and it is particularly irritating when you insist on using Left wing magazines as a source to smear Rudy and make charges that he is a tyrant at heart who can’t wait to turn America into a totalitarian state.

If you can get your favorite nominee nominated, fine, all the power to you. If you can’t and stay home in a hissy fit then you should be willing to take some responsibility for the results.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 5:52 PM

Don’t believe it!

JellyToast on November 2, 2007 at 8:03 PM

It is maddening, and it is particularly irritating when you insist on using Left wing magazines as a source to smear Rudy and make charges that he is a tyrant at heart who can’t wait to turn America into a totalitarian state.

Buy Danish on November 2, 2007 at 5:52 PM

I make no effort to find “Left wing magazines” to quote. Much/most of what I read is linked to by RCP which is pretty middle of the road, maybe s bit to the right. I don’t tend toward “shooting the messenger”. Those stories had a lot of detail to be fabrications. “Poor lairs give lots of details, good ones don’t”. They gave a lot of details. If they were lying they would not have done that as there would be too much to trip them up. Maybe they are just stupid, but I doubt that.

MB4 on November 3, 2007 at 12:30 AM

MB4,

I found this at RCP, and I’d hate for you to miss it.

The Left Hates Rudy. .

Here’s an excerpt, and gosh what does it say:

Within the past month, the New Republic, the Nation, and the Washington Monthly have all run anti-Giuliani cover stories, with the latter one declaring that, “as president, Giuliani would grab even more executive power than Bush and Cheney.”

In an anti-Blackwater screed, you quoted someone who writes for The Nation and other hard Left publications. Here’s the thread.

Buy Danish on November 3, 2007 at 1:13 PM

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