1. willingly profits from 9-11

Rudy did not profit from 9/11. The world watched Rudy on 9/11 in real time. There was no script and no spin doctors, just Rudy reacting to terrible events and giving the people of NYC, the nation and the world the courage and strength needed to grieve for the loss but more forward. Rudy became a national and international hero. He may have profited from his hero status that he EARNED on 9/11, but that is called capitalism. If you become a hero guiding a city of 8 million through a tragedy, you too can make a buck.


2. was mayor of America’s largest sanctuary city

I have already addressed this point here.


3. estranged from children

First, that is an exaggeration. second, that not fair in that children often side with their mommy in a divorce or go through rebellion periods. Finally, if it is true then it is because he has committed so much of his life serving the public good. You can even say that he sacrificed his own family for the well being of the 8 million souls in NYC. 


4. dumped his wife at a press conference

Same as above.


5. sued gun manufacturers

Has nothing to do with 2nd Amendment. Gun manufacturer were making, marketing and selling guns that were being bought legal in the jurisdiction that they were being sold but under circumstance that they knew the guns would be brought into NYC in violation of its gun laws. The gun manufacturers were making and selling guns which they knew were flooding NYC with illegal guns. That is an unfair business practice and gives rise to civil liability. The gun manufactures were also negligent in failing to adopt simple and inexpensive safety precautions to make their products less dangerous. Rudy was doing his job in enforcing its laws, reducing crime and representing the best interests of his city.

He has however, recognized that the 2nd does protect an individual’s right to bear arms that can only be limited by a compelling state interest — such as a big city deemed the murder capital of the US. The same restrictions would not apply in rural Texas.


6. Made many major errors as mayor (selected WTC bldg 7 as command and control center AFTER 1st WTC attack, poor radios for responders, etc.)

The only perfect man was nailed to a cross 2000 years ago. Those faults are over blown. They bought radios digital radios, but they had to be returned — was that Rudy’s fault? I think it makes sense to put a crisis center near where a crisis might develop. Who thought all the buildings would fall down?


7. Bailed out of the Iraq Study Group (to make $$$)

Withdrew because it was becoming politicized and would conflict with his candidacy.


8. Supports civil unions

Opposes gay marriage, is not a homophobe. Are you?


9. Opposes workplace enforcement of illegal aliens.

Has never said that. See here.


10. Supports federal funding for abortions.

No, supports the Hyde Amendment.

Now its your turn. Explain those votes…

csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 7:58 AM

Oh lady, that was rich……..very rich.

omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:16 AM

I didn’t think you folks could defend Rudy and now it’s official.

C-ya.

So, I’m not trying to help any one candidate by skewering Fred, I am trying to save this country from Hillary, Obama, or Edwards and their ilk.

csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 10:27 AM

As I am also, my friend. All I would like to see here is a little less vitriol.

I agree with you on several points, and I do have a very large problem with some of Fred’s history. As I do with Rudy’s and Mitt’s history. But, in all fairness, from what I have read and know about the “Big Three,” only one of them, Fred, seems to share my commitment to the Second Amendment, secure borders, balanced budget amendment with line item veto for POTUS, lower taxes (I still think we are overtaxed), etc. He seems to be the one of the three that has consistently been in the conservative camp. The other two need to prove to me they are not doing a 180 just to get elected. I suspect, if the Republicans were trying to get left of the democrats, Mitt and Rudy would be willing to say anything to prove their liberal credentials.

I just wish Duncan were showing a lot more support. He is the one we need to rally ’round.

Texas Nick 77 on November 2, 2007 at 9:29 AM

No one should be judging a candidate by the people who support them. It is entirely more logical to judge the people by the candidate they follow.

IE: Ron Paul does the damage to his reputation because of what he says. The people who follow him are judge harshly because they buy into his craziness.

And I have no favorite candidate other than the rep who has the best chance of beating the dem nominee. Hopefully I’ll be able to get a clear idea of those trends BEFORE I have to vote on primary day.

My goal is to vet these guys as stringently as possible in order to deny an October surprise from the dems. Looking at the three top, well I’ll include Fred since this is a Fred thread, only Rudy and Mitt have positions that are defensible and have the momentum and money to make a serious run.

McCain has no money and is saddled with the shamnesty fiasco. Fred has a history of connections with people who are virulently anti-American and anti-conservative. One mention of Fred giving legal advice to benefit terrorists and Fred is dead in the water unelectable. He just cannot be considered as a viable choice to represent the conservative party.

So, I’m not trying to help any one candidate by skewering Fred, I am trying to save this country from Hillary, Obama, or Edwards and their ilk.

Why do you always say that? Do you know the etymology for the word? Do you have a lot of experience with scumbags?

FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 6:19 PM

tommylotto is a lawyer. He should have a lot of experience with them. Either defending them, or trying to take money from someone who probably earned it.

Ranking The 2008 Republican Contenders On The Illegal Immigration Issue

MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 5:29 PM

Very interesting. It was amusing to see Paul ranked way up there with Hunter and Tancredo. But since none of these guys seem to have a snowballs chance, I’ll have to go with #4… Fred.

Sorry, csd, et al., but your vitriol is a real turnoff. The points you continuously bring up, and the name-calling, are doing your candidates no good.

Refute all 10 of those points csd, tommyBoy, BKnights.
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:16 AM

I’m still waiting for someone to defend Rudy against my 10 accusations above.
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 1:12 AM

You refuse to use a members correct handle and you expect an honest debate?

When you are ready to humble yourself and cease the personal attacks on your fellow members, you will get a serious response. And I doubt you would have actually apologize. You could just simply ask a respectful question and you’d probably get a respectful response.

Back to this thread…

I have patiently and substantively defended Rudy from one scurrilous and unsubstantiated attack after another here, here, here and here.

FloatingRock was the first to interject Fred into this thread here.

I provided a lengthy list of specific votes by Senator Freddie wherein Freddie repeatedly voted infavor of the open borders agenda of his crony / co-campaign manager Abraham here.

Since then the Fredheads have been singing songs, hablaing in espanol, talking gibberish and generally acting the fool. They have done anything but act like an adult and recognize that their beloved Freddie boy has a past — a past filled with pro-choice memos, lobbying for abortion groups, giving legal advice to terrorists, and, yes, voting time and time again to give away our country to forgien nationals. You guys need to grow up, vett your candidate, and stop embarrasing yourselves.

Their stunted vocabulary illustrates their maturity (and education) level. (douche, frapping moron, stupid son of a 8itch, turds, etc.) and that’s just on this one little thread.

omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:28 AM

Add “dishonest, jagoff fool” to the litany of intellectual debate here at Hot Air.

Anyone………Bueller…………Bueller?!?

FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:31 AM

You need to just go watch your movie. You’re digging yourself a deeper hole the more you try to ignore the fact that YOU STARTED THE INSULTS. Period. Everyone can see it and you are just making yourself look like a dishonest, jagoff fool. Admit your error and move on. It’s easy, once honesty, and not narcissism, is the driving force in your life.

FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:10 AM

You’re not getting it. You have directed your comments to members instead of dealing with Fred’s obviously troubling history. Your comment did nothing to encourage better debate, but rather lowered the level. When you attack people like that, you are going to get a response.

Even in this comment….

omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:16 AM

She partially gets it, yet then uses childish insults to peoples names. She, for some bizarre psychological reason, cannot help herself from insulting people. And she, just like you, will try to justify her insults because she was insulted, but refuses to accept the fact that YOU started with the insults.

Ignore them trolls my friend.

omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:28 AM

Good advice. My movie is awaitin’.

I don’t expect you to apologize for attacking me, but I will be watching you and the next time you do, I’m gonna call you on it, in an effort to change your attitude towards people who don’t lap up Fred’s crapola.

csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 12:23 AM

Get real. You and your red pickup phobia and your scumbag fetish isn’t fooling anybody.

If you expect me to apologize for your behavior and the behavior of Tommylotto and Bkenedy, you’re delusional. (Oh, no, I’ve attacked you again. Bad, bad me!)

FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:23 AM

Ignore them trolls my friend.

Their stunted vocabulary illustrates their maturity (and education) level. (douche, frapping moron, stupid son of a 8itch, turds, etc.) and that’s just on this one little thread.

After that, in response to the same post of TLs, I called Rudy a fartface to demonstrate how immature Tommylotto’s reasoning was. Again, my comment was a response to TL.

Then TL wrote:

Grow-up. You sound like my autistic 5 year old. Whaaaa!!!

tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 5:39 PM

To which I responded:

You sound like you’ve been stewing in your poopy pants too long. Time for mommy to change them.

FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 5:44 PM

And I stand by that comment as well.

They’re always initiating attacks against those of us who disagree with them.
FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:02 AM

It’s a rare event to find me attacking members of HA before they attack me. You started this and I finished it. So go ahead, run away. And while you’re doing that, reflect on whether or not you will start insulting people in the future. I don’t expect you to apologize for attacking me, but I will be watching you and the next time you do, I’m gonna call you on it, in an effort to change your attitude towards people who don’t lap up Fred’s crapola.

1. willingly profits from 9-11
2. was mayor of America’s largest sanctuary city
3. estranged from children
4. dumped his wife at a press conference
5. sued gun manufacturers
6. Made many major errors as mayor (selected WTC bldg 7 as command and control center AFTER 1st WTC attack, poor radios for responders, etc.)
7. Bailed out of the Iraq Study Group (to make $$$)
8. Supports civil unions
9. Opposes workplace enforcement of illegal aliens.
10. Supports federal funding for abortions.

OK, there you go, that’s why Rudy will lose against Hillary (if, God forbid, he wins the primary).

Refute all 10 of those points csd, tommyBoy, BKnights.

And remember, no mention of “those that shall remain unnamed” if you can help yourselves.

I agree. Fred is a scumbag.

tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 3:40 PM

I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about this before, (this isn’t my blog), but you, Bkenedy and CSD really bring this place down. How old are you guys? You behave like schoolyard bullies. Are you even old enough to vote? If I’d been AP or Bryan I would have banned you long ago, or laid down some ground rules at least. Your vitriol is uncalled for.

FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 4:02 PM

What is it with you Fred turds that wont allow you to get through a single thread without initiating an attack on those of us who don’t worship the ground that scumbag walks on?

csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 10:17 PM

Oh, poor me. I was just engaging in an honest discussion regarding the topic of this thread but these terrible Mitt and Rudy fanboys refuse to play fair. They’re always initiating attacks against those of us who disagree with them. I’m just an innocent bystander; a victim of haters like CSD and Tommylotto. Feel sorry for me everybody.

/sarc

OK, I’ve had my fun for the day… I’m going to watch a movie now.

csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 11:50 PM

Well I am not sure who changed the subject as that was a very brief in passing reference, but whomever did tommyloto sure jumped on it with all fours which was a wise move on his part as he was digging his hijo Rudolf a very deep hole. If Rudy is paying him he needs to get all his money back and a whole lot more.

For the record, I didn’t initiate any attacks on anybody.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 11:47 PM

Where do you frapping morons come from? Your moms basement?

I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about this before, (this isn’t my blog), but you, Bkenedy and CSD really bring this place down. How old are you guys? You behave like schoolyard bullies. Are you even old enough to vote? If I’d been AP or Bryan I would have banned you long ago, or laid down some ground rules at least. Your vitriol is uncalled for.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 4:02 PM

Jeeze! You are one stupid son of a 8itch, ya know?

tommylotto, aka Rudy’s madre, I see you are still trying to change the subject of this thread to Fred.

No, not true. That fool floatingrock changed the subject to Fred.

What I’m wondering is, what ever happened to Fred? Has he fallen in the polls? Does Rudy already have this thing wrapped up?
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 2:11 PM