Pew poll: Hillary leads Rudy by eight nationally, by 11 in the south
posted at 2:03 pm on November 1, 2007 by Allahpundit
Not every poll agrees but this one used an unusually large sample. The head-to-head breakdown is here; note the numbers for the south in the first poll at the top. I can only explain that as residual affection for Billy Jeff among southern independents. On the other hand, the numbers for Rudy among Hispanics are encouraging — 38 percent, which isn’t far off what Bush pulled in 2004 notwithstanding all the immigration sturm und drang that’s happened since.
This is the set I want to focus on, the for/against analysis:
In three elections — 1988, 1996, and 2004 — there was a gap between the candidate whose side was voting for him and the candidate whose side was voting against the other guy. In all three, “for” beat “against.” Which bodes very ominously indeed, especially with Rudy counting on Hillary-hatred for turnout among southern evangelicals who’d otherwise be squeamish about voting for him. Here’s why he has to pitch himself as not-a-Democrat as opposed to a Republican:
The Wash Times has a piece out today claiming that Republican strategists are keen on the idea of Bloomberg running now because they think he’ll swipe more votes from the Democrat than from them. Look again at that data and see the folly of that theory. If anyone’s looking for a protest vote, it’s Republicans, not Democrats, especially after the Nader debacle of 2000. (An early poll confirmed this phenomenon.) Don’t believe me?
44% willing to consider a third-party is no mean number, although the fact that that skews towards conservative Republicans bodes ill for Bloomberg and much better for a social con independent. (See the last poll at the bottom here to see the skew explained.)
The one bit of good news: Americans hate the Democratic Congress. The bad news: One reason why is because they’re not acting “Democratic” enough.
Blowback
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Rudy, at this point, is the strongest candidate to oppose Mrs. Clinton, and so there is an opportunity for those who despise Clintoninan liberalism to vote for someone who will be a better “conservative” than GW (God bless’m.), and Rudy will attract more of the “Reagan” middle to his candidacy.
To win, you need to defeat the grrrrl.
As for those conservatives whose loyalties lie with the Republic and the principles for which she stands…. You won’t vote for Rudy? or Mitt? or Fred? or Huck?
You might sit on your hands and allow Mrs. Clinton back into the White House?
I’m with El Rushbo. You wanna win or whine?
Randy
williars on November 1, 2007 at 5:43 PM
You sound like you’ve been stewing in your poopy pants too long. Time for mommy to change them.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 5:44 PM
Always to pause before hitting the “Submit” button.
Randy
Maybe “Preview” first. ;(
williars on November 1, 2007 at 5:48 PM
Rudy’s madre is back! Defending him like only a madre could defend her hijo. Isn’t a madre’s amor muy maravillosa! When it comes to amor for her hijo her ojos are truly ciegos.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 5:49 PM
Oh well….
Randy
williars on November 1, 2007 at 5:55 PM
Rudy has a very disturbed personality type. Worse than LBJ and Nixon and HilldaBeast put together. He is not fit to be the President of the United States of America. Maybe president of some tin pot third world country or sanctuary city mayor of New Yawk again, but not my country!
Giuliani’s seemingly insatiable appetite for authority was evident, first and foremost, in the way he ran his administration. Obsessed, as always, with loyalty, he demanded that power be centralized in his hands and that he receive credit for any of the administration’s achievements. Even the Department of Environmental Protection’s daily reports on the water level in the reservoir had to be cleared through Giuliani’s press office before being released. He also replaced Dinkins-era officials with loyalists, some of whom had little preparation for their jobs. Tony Carbonetti, the grandson of Harold Giuliani’s friend, was put in charge of the Office of Appointments, even though his previous experience consisted mostly of running a bar in Boston. According to Kirtzman, “one agency estimated that, of patronage hires, 60 percent were qualified, 20 percent had no experience, and 20 percent were ‘dirtbags.’ ” Among these hires was Carbonetti’s father, who was named director of the Community Assistance Unit. He was forced to resign after admitting that he had two driver’s licenses and had failed to pay $156,000 in liens and judgments against one of his businesses.
The most important casualty of this process was Bratton, who, besides Giuliani himself, was most responsible for the administration’s early success. Whenever the press gave too much credit to Bratton, the police chief and his spokesman John Miller would be called into city hall to be bawled out by Giuliani loyalists. Miller was finally forced to quit. After Time put Bratton on its cover in January 1996, an enraged Giuliani had City Hall attorneys begin investigating his personal expenses. That was enough for Bratton. He quit two months later.
This man is dangerous. He is the epitome of an anti-Reagan, an anti-Jefferson. He should run for President of some third world country. If he is the Republican nominee, I will not stay home, I will vote for Hillary as she is less dangerous to America than he is.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 5:56 PM
The RealClearPolitics average is actually FALLING for Mrs. Clinton. One poll, especially a PEW poll, means nothing. An average of different polls is the way to go.
SouthernGent on November 1, 2007 at 5:58 PM
Are you serious?
Reagan didn’t abandon the Republican base and try to lure liberal Dems. Reagan strengthened his conservative base and attracted conservative Dems in the process. There’s a big difference. In once scenario you build your base and in the other you abandon it.
No, I won’t vote for Rudy. I can’t believe that any patriotic, conservative American would, but obviously I’m in the minority as far as I know, albeit not a small minority.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 6:00 PM
I agree entirely.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 6:02 PM
You are paranoid as FloatingRock and I do not even know each other. We are just both Americans first and not RINO Rudybots and you are becoming more and more unhinged.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:03 PM
That ranking is the biggest chunk of horse dung that I have seen in a long time. This is what it says about fred:
LOL!!! Please Fredheads, one and all, please, explain to me Fred’s thinking on the following votes. And as you review this list, please note how many of his open border votes were cast for his La Raza lovin’ buddy and co-campaign managing crony Abraham.
Fred is a scumbag. I say that with all seriousness. Rudy recognizes his past positions. He has changed some over time. But he addresses them, points out were we agree and tries to explain his reasoning. Mitt recognizes his past and promises he has changed. He does not deny his prior positions, just denies that he still holds them. Fred on the other hand, just lies. “What you see is what you get” “Consistent conservative” My but. He was pro-choice, lobbied for an abortion group, defended terrorists, lobbied for dictators and against those poisoned by asbestos. He voted time and time again to help open the borders for his buddy Abraham. BUT HE PRETENDS LIKE HIS PAST DOES NOT EXISTS. “Just close your eyes and imagine your perfect candidate. That’s me, that what I’ve always stood for.” NONSENSE, and you Fredheads should be embarassed. Fred is the worst candidate I have ever seen.
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 6:05 PM
Sorry I don’t spreken Deutsche…
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 6:08 PM
Well then just close your ojos along with your mente and gritar silencio, silencio, silencio, silencio, no quiero escucharlo!!!
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:13 PM
Usted no entiende mucho en Aleman, Espanol o Ingles.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:16 PM
Why do you always say that? Do you know the etymology for the word? Do you have a lot of experience with scumbags?
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 6:19 PM
Well if he is Rudy’s mom as I suspect, then the answer would be yes.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:24 PM
LOL!
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 6:27 PM
Adios Rudy.
What a “scumbag” to profit off of 9-11.
Once his stance on immigration is out, he’s toast.
omnipotent on November 1, 2007 at 6:29 PM
Oh sorry I forgot the translation for Rudy’s mom:
Sheeit if him done be Rudy’s mommah as ah’ do be suspectin, den de answa’ would be right on fer shure!!!
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:29 PM
Famously loyal, Giuliani chose as his partners longtime associates, including a former police commissioner later convicted of corruption, a former FBI executive who admitted taking artifacts from Ground Zero and a former Roman Catholic priest accused of covering up sexual abuse in the church.
Sounds like Rudy “Birds of a Feather” Giuliani alright.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:36 PM
I see that the Fredheads are doing the avoidance dance again. Anyone else reading this thread, please note how they completely disregarded the specific and lengthy history that I provided of Fred’s open border votes for his crony Abraham. Rather, they concentrate on the playful smack that I inserted into my post.
Come on Fredheads, explain those votes…. tick tock
…………………………crickets………………………………..
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 6:41 PM
I doubt even most Rudy supporters give your anti-Fred screeds much weight, Tommylotto. Frankly, you probably do a lot more harm than good.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 6:47 PM
Have you been sleeping en la clase again Rudy’s madre?
The subject of this thread was Rudy, not Fred.
I can see why you want to change the subject though as you have done such a muy pobres job of supporting your hijo Rudy.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:53 PM
Rudy spends most of his life battling the liberal establishment and the liberal media and infuriates them time and again by always besting them. That is bound to stir up some resentment and motivate some smear jobs by some less than subjective journalist quoting disgruntled former associates. With all the motivation to smear Rudy out there, if that is the best they can do — to cast some shadows on a few of the people he once knew — that’s a pretty pathetic attempt at smearing.
And so what if a few liberal journalists think Rudy is too authoritarian. Most Romans thought Caesar showed great leadership qualities. A few dead-enders in the Senate thought he wanted to be king, but he turned down that crown offered to him by Marc Anthony … three times. I don’t see a crown on Rudy’s head either.
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 6:57 PM
Sorry
Madretommylotto you’re Fired!!!- Amorevole tuo figlio, Rudy pooh
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 6:59 PM
The problem is that your BS/Truth ratio is just so far out of kilter that your credibility is shot.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 7:02 PM
So now Rudy’s madre, you are comparing your hijo Rudy to Ceasar.
First rule of holes – When in one, first stop digging.
- Murphy
Seriously, you really aren’t helping him.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 7:03 PM
I am begining to feel so sorry for Rudy’s mom tommylotto that I don’t think that I can even watch any more.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 7:06 PM
1) There are ground rules you douche.
2) If I were MM, AP, or Bryan, I’d…oh wait a minute, I’m not so what you think don’t matter.
3) No, what is uncalled for is you and your ilk personally attacking the members here who rag you favorite candidate. They are politicians and are fair game to all of us. Groupies like you need to realize that you are not the candidate. When your precious scumbag Fred is skewered over his disgusting behavior, that is not the same as skewering you.
Grow up.
csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 7:37 PM
Anyone that engages tommyboy has to make sure they burn their clothes afterward. But the worst part is that they have to destroy their horse to keep the others from getting infected.
jaime on November 1, 2007 at 7:41 PM
Why is it that the anti-Fred groupies love “scumbag” so much? LOL
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 8:00 PM
Unhinged indeed.
So csd, you call FloatingRock a “douche” and in the same comment you say attacks on Fred aren’t skewering the “Fred-groupies”.
Must be a Mitt fan, talking out of both sides of your mouth like that.
omnipotent on November 1, 2007 at 8:18 PM
I think that Rudy will be as tough on The War on Terror, and more tough on the spending tendencies of Congress.
Regarding “Abortion”, the American people have clearly expressed their position time and again: Abortion is to be allowed under certain circumstances.
Rudy accepts this as political reality and intends to project his personal “unease” with abortion onto the Supreme Court.
But, I agree with you insofar that Rudy could use the “bully pulpit” to encourage life as an alternative.
Randy
williars on November 1, 2007 at 8:19 PM
Actually, I get contacted by readers thanking me for my efforts. They realize that I back up my assertion / smack with facts and reasonable arguments. You guys write songs or start babbling in a foriegn language
Nice side step, is that your final excuse for refusing to address Fred’s lengthy history of votes to open the border for his buddy and co-campaign chair Abraham?
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 8:32 PM
Delusions of grandeur……WOW.
omnipotent on November 1, 2007 at 8:58 PM
Exactly how does that pithy response explain Fred’s long list of open border votes for his crony / co-campaign chair Abraham?
You guys crap all over Rudy for being open boarder this, and sanctuary city that, but you just don’t get it. Rudy was a mayor of a city. He was never in a position to do anything but be a victim of illegal immigration. Freddie (that’s his real name by the way) was actually in a position to do something about immigration. He was a Senator for 8 wopping years. He was in a position where he actually could have sponsored legislation, deported people, funded a wall, etc. and did nothing to help poor Rudy out. In fact, he made the problem worse by consistently voting for bills and amendments cooked up by Abraham (what are they lovers?)
If you want to sit at the big boy table you need to explain Fred’s suport for an open border agenda, not just gobble up his current rhetoric.
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 9:25 PM
I’d bet that Ron Paul receives far more ‘thank you’ emails than you, and based on the exact same criteria. Besides, emails from CSD and BKennedy don’t count.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 9:33 PM
My b.s. detector is ringing loudly over these results.
A guy named RUDY in the South will always beats a gal named HILLARY.
Period.
profitsbeard on November 1, 2007 at 9:54 PM
What is it with you Fred turds that wont allow you to get through a single thread without initiating an attack on those of us who don’t worship the ground that scumbag walks on?
It’s very telling of your personality and the disorder that afflicts you.
csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 10:17 PM
Make sense why don’t ya? If you or her are so bothered by being called a douche, I suggest you stick to the discussion at hand and leave the personalities out of it. It doesn’t further your argument and it exposes you as the person who has a problem with projection, because you groupies always start with the personal insults toward the members of HA.
YOU ARE NOT FRED. Learn it, live it, love it.
csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 10:21 PM
I still don’t understand why you guys are so fascinated with scumbags. It’s almost embarrassing to watch.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 10:32 PM
OK, in the South, 30% of the votes are from black voters that go Democrat (why do you think she visits the Southern black churches?). That leaves Hillary to need only 20% of the remaining votes for her to win the state.
None of the current crop of candidates can keep that from happening. I’m not so much ‘for’ Thompson as much as I realize that Rudy won’t beat Hillary in the South. Mitt might, Fred might, but Rudy won’t (How many blacks voted for him in NY?).
I don’t know how to explain that to you Yankees in any more plain English so that you might understand the situation concerning the ELECTORAL COLLEGE outside of the primary.
ThackerAgency on November 1, 2007 at 10:39 PM
OK, uncle! Uncle! I admit it. Rudy and Mitt are both conservatives. Rudy is the toughest candidate against illegal immigration, by far! Mitt is the strongest social conservative, it’s true!
Can I at least keep my lunch money?
Speaking of BS/truth ratios, I don’t think you even have a gauge, CSD.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 10:39 PM
I’m still waiting Fredheads. You say Rudy is weak on immigration, but you still refuse to discuss Fred’s voting record mention in my previous post. I’m gonna eat dinner with my wife, maybe even get lucky, fall asleep, wake-up in the middle of the night to pee. Then I check back here. I bet not one of you will have picked up the gauntlet.
tommylotto on November 1, 2007 at 10:51 PM
I’m not a Fredhead. Never have been. At most I was a Fred!? but that was before Spencer Abraham.
Now that Fred has the strongest platform against illegal immigration it mitigates some of my concerns about Spencer Abrahams influence, so now that I think about it, I guess I’m a Fred!? again. I think I’ll just call myself a Fred supporter.
I’m sorry, but other than that simple qualification, well…
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 11:25 PM
tommylotto, aka Rudy’s madre, I see you are still trying to change the subject of this thread to Fred. Good move of desperation on your part as you have done such a piss poor job of defending your hijo Rudy. With amigos like you he needs no enemies.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 11:27 PM
What is the difference betwen Hillary and tommylotto?
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 11:31 PM
Hillary doesn’t really believe her man, she belives her “lying” eyes. Tommylotto on the other hand.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 11:34 PM
OK, we’re douches and turds……..you are God.
Feel better now little one?
omnipotent on November 1, 2007 at 11:34 PM
Oh, please. Hillary’s Billbo-baggage and socialist agenda can be defeated decisively by Rudy because he has the personal and political pedigree….
Maybe Mitt, ’cause it ain’t braggin’ when you been there, but the Clintonistas are akin to a political mafia.
I think America’s Mayor is ready for duty to be her next President.
Randy
williars on November 1, 2007 at 11:42 PM
OK, we’re douches and turds……..you are God.
omnipotent on November 1, 2007 at 11:34 PM
csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 11:45 PM
For the record, I didn’t initiate any attacks on anybody.
I’d like to remark that your comment above reveals one of your more interesting tactics. It reminds me of Palestinian propaganda techniques, although I’m sure they didn’t invent it either. I think I’ll try it out in my next comment just below. (Wait for it…)
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 11:47 PM
No, not true. That fool floatingrock changed the subject to Fred.
csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 11:50 PM
Where do you frapping morons come from? Your moms basement?
Jeeze! You are one stupid son of a 8itch, ya know?
csdeven on November 1, 2007 at 11:54 PM
Well I am not sure who changed the subject as that was a very brief in passing reference, but whomever did tommyloto sure jumped on it with all fours which was a wise move on his part as he was digging his hijo Rudolf a very deep hole. If Rudy is paying him he needs to get all his money back and a whole lot more.
MB4 on November 1, 2007 at 11:59 PM
Oh, poor me. I was just engaging in an honest discussion regarding the topic of this thread but these terrible Mitt and Rudy fanboys refuse to play fair. They’re always initiating attacks against those of us who disagree with them. I’m just an innocent bystander; a victim of haters like CSD and Tommylotto. Feel sorry for me everybody.
/sarc
OK, I’ve had my fun for the day… I’m going to watch a movie now.
FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:02 AM
Here’s the entire post quoted by CSD:
I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about this before, (this isn’t my blog), but you, Bkenedy and CSD really bring this place down. How old are you guys? You behave like schoolyard bullies. Are you even old enough to vote? If I’d been AP or Bryan I would have banned you long ago, or laid down some ground rules at least. Your vitriol is uncalled for.
FloatingRock on November 1, 2007 at 4:02 PM
FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:10 AM
OK, let’s talk about Rudy:
1. willingly profits from 9-11
2. was mayor of America’s largest sanctuary city
3. estranged from children
4. dumped his wife at a press conference
5. sued gun manufacturers
6. Made many major errors as mayor (selected WTC bldg 7 as command and control center AFTER 1st WTC attack, poor radios for responders, etc.)
7. Bailed out of the Iraq Study Group (to make $$$)
8. Supports civil unions
9. Opposes workplace enforcement of illegal aliens.
10. Supports federal funding for abortions.
OK, there you go, that’s why Rudy will lose against Hillary (if, God forbid, he wins the primary).
Refute all 10 of those points csd, tommyBoy, BKnights.
And remember, no mention of “those that shall remain unnamed” if you can help yourselves.
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:16 AM
It’s a rare event to find me attacking members of HA before they attack me. You started this and I finished it. So go ahead, run away. And while you’re doing that, reflect on whether or not you will start insulting people in the future. I don’t expect you to apologize for attacking me, but I will be watching you and the next time you do, I’m gonna call you on it, in an effort to change your attitude towards people who don’t lap up Fred’s crapola.
csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 12:23 AM
…and I stand by my response to tommylotto.
After that, in response to the same post of TLs, I called Rudy a fartface to demonstrate how immature Tommylotto’s reasoning was. Again, my comment was a response to TL.
Then TL wrote:
To which I responded:
And I stand by that comment as well.
FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:23 AM
Ignore them trolls my friend.
Their stunted vocabulary illustrates their maturity (and education) level. (douche, frapping moron, stupid son of a 8itch, turds, etc.) and that’s just on this one little thread.
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 12:28 AM
Get real. You and your red pickup phobia and your scumbag fetish isn’t fooling anybody.
If you expect me to apologize for your behavior and the behavior of Tommylotto and Bkenedy, you’re delusional. (Oh, no, I’ve attacked you again. Bad, bad me!)
FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:31 AM
Good advice. My movie is awaitin’.
FloatingRock on November 2, 2007 at 12:34 AM
You’re not getting it. You have directed your comments to members instead of dealing with Fred’s obviously troubling history. Your comment did nothing to encourage better debate, but rather lowered the level. When you attack people like that, you are going to get a response.
Even in this comment….
She partially gets it, yet then uses childish insults to peoples names. She, for some bizarre psychological reason, cannot help herself from insulting people. And she, just like you, will try to justify her insults because she was insulted, but refuses to accept the fact that YOU started with the insults.
csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 12:34 AM
You need to just go watch your movie. You’re digging yourself a deeper hole the more you try to ignore the fact that YOU STARTED THE INSULTS. Period. Everyone can see it and you are just making yourself look like a dishonest, jagoff fool. Admit your error and move on. It’s easy, once honesty, and not narcissism, is the driving force in your life.
csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 12:40 AM
I’m still waiting for someone to defend Rudy against my 10 accusations above.
Anyone………Bueller…………Bueller?!?
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 1:12 AM
Add “dishonest, jagoff fool” to the litany of intellectual debate here at Hot Air.
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 1:20 AM
I’m so lucky, lucky, lucky. Have I told you what a lucky man I am?
Back to this thread…
I have patiently and substantively defended Rudy from one scurrilous and unsubstantiated attack after another here, here, here and here.
FloatingRock was the first to interject Fred into this thread here.
I provided a lengthy list of specific votes by Senator Freddie wherein Freddie repeatedly voted infavor of the open borders agenda of his crony / co-campaign manager Abraham here.
Since then the Fredheads have been singing songs, hablaing in espanol, talking gibberish and generally acting the fool. They have done anything but act like an adult and recognize that their beloved Freddie boy has a past — a past filled with pro-choice memos, lobbying for abortion groups, giving legal advice to terrorists, and, yes, voting time and time again to give away our country to forgien nationals. You guys need to grow up, vett your candidate, and stop embarrasing yourselves.
tommylotto on November 2, 2007 at 4:16 AM
You refuse to use a members correct handle and you expect an honest debate?
When you are ready to humble yourself and cease the personal attacks on your fellow members, you will get a serious response. And I doubt you would have actually apologize. You could just simply ask a respectful question and you’d probably get a respectful response.
csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 7:58 AM
Very interesting. It was amusing to see Paul ranked way up there with Hunter and Tancredo. But since none of these guys seem to have a snowballs chance, I’ll have to go with #4… Fred.
Sorry, csd, et al., but your vitriol is a real turnoff. The points you continuously bring up, and the name-calling, are doing your candidates no good.
Texas Nick 77 on November 2, 2007 at 9:29 AM
tommylotto is a lawyer. He should have a lot of experience with them. Either defending them, or trying to take money from someone who probably earned it.
Texas Nick 77 on November 2, 2007 at 9:38 AM
BTW, tommy… does the court allow the frequent use of “scumbag” while in session?
Texas Nick 77 on November 2, 2007 at 9:39 AM
No one should be judging a candidate by the people who support them. It is entirely more logical to judge the people by the candidate they follow.
IE: Ron Paul does the damage to his reputation because of what he says. The people who follow him are judge harshly because they buy into his craziness.
And I have no favorite candidate other than the rep who has the best chance of beating the dem nominee. Hopefully I’ll be able to get a clear idea of those trends BEFORE I have to vote on primary day.
My goal is to vet these guys as stringently as possible in order to deny an October surprise from the dems. Looking at the three top, well I’ll include Fred since this is a Fred thread, only Rudy and Mitt have positions that are defensible and have the momentum and money to make a serious run.
McCain has no money and is saddled with the shamnesty fiasco. Fred has a history of connections with people who are virulently anti-American and anti-conservative. One mention of Fred giving legal advice to benefit terrorists and Fred is dead in the water unelectable. He just cannot be considered as a viable choice to represent the conservative party.
So, I’m not trying to help any one candidate by skewering Fred, I am trying to save this country from Hillary, Obama, or Edwards and their ilk.
csdeven on November 2, 2007 at 10:27 AM
As I am also, my friend. All I would like to see here is a little less vitriol.
I agree with you on several points, and I do have a very large problem with some of Fred’s history. As I do with Rudy’s and Mitt’s history. But, in all fairness, from what I have read and know about the “Big Three,” only one of them, Fred, seems to share my commitment to the Second Amendment, secure borders, balanced budget amendment with line item veto for POTUS, lower taxes (I still think we are overtaxed), etc. He seems to be the one of the three that has consistently been in the conservative camp. The other two need to prove to me they are not doing a 180 just to get elected. I suspect, if the Republicans were trying to get left of the democrats, Mitt and Rudy would be willing to say anything to prove their liberal credentials.
I just wish Duncan were showing a lot more support. He is the one we need to rally ’round.
Texas Nick 77 on November 2, 2007 at 10:49 AM
Oh lady, that was rich……..very rich.
I didn’t think you folks could defend Rudy and now it’s official.
C-ya.
omnipotent on November 2, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Okay, I certainly do not want you to think as this thread slips into oblivion that your silly illegitimate list was a valid excuse to avoid addressing the long list of open border voted made by Fred to support his crony / co-campaign manager Abraham.
Rudy did not profit from 9/11. The world watched Rudy on 9/11 in real time. There was no script and no spin doctors, just Rudy reacting to terrible events and giving the people of NYC, the nation and the world the courage and strength needed to grieve for the loss but more forward. Rudy became a national and international hero. He may have profited from his hero status that he EARNED on 9/11, but that is called capitalism. If you become a hero guiding a city of 8 million through a tragedy, you too can make a buck.
I have already addressed this point here.
First, that is an exaggeration. second, that not fair in that children often side with their mommy in a divorce or go through rebellion periods. Finally, if it is true then it is because he has committed so much of his life serving the public good. You can even say that he sacrificed his own family for the well being of the 8 million souls in NYC.
Same as above.
Has nothing to do with 2nd Amendment. Gun manufacturer were making, marketing and selling guns that were being bought legal in the jurisdiction that they were being sold but under circumstance that they knew the guns would be brought into NYC in violation of its gun laws. The gun manufacturers were making and selling guns which they knew were flooding NYC with illegal guns. That is an unfair business practice and gives rise to civil liability. The gun manufactures were also negligent in failing to adopt simple and inexpensive safety precautions to make their products less dangerous. Rudy was doing his job in enforcing its laws, reducing crime and representing the best interests of his city.
He has however, recognized that the 2nd does protect an individual’s right to bear arms that can only be limited by a compelling state interest — such as a big city deemed the murder capital of the US. The same restrictions would not apply in rural Texas.
The only perfect man was nailed to a cross 2000 years ago. Those faults are over blown. They bought radios digital radios, but they had to be returned — was that Rudy’s fault? I think it makes sense to put a crisis center near where a crisis might develop. Who thought all the buildings would fall down?
Withdrew because it was becoming politicized and would conflict with his candidacy.
Opposes gay marriage, is not a homophobe. Are you?
Has never said that. See here.
No, supports the Hyde Amendment.
Now its your turn. Explain those votes…
tommylotto on November 2, 2007 at 12:30 PM
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