Schism: Conservative podcast team fractures over European right-wing party

posted at 8:15 pm on October 30, 2007 by Allahpundit

If you haven’t followed my posts about what’s going on at LGF, catch up now. Lines are being drawn within the right-wing blogosphere, and indeed even within certain right-wing blogs. Charles Johnson’s written several items lately on the right-wing Belgian party Vlaams Belang and how their dream of a jihad-free Europe seems to imagine a Europe free of a few other things as well. Shire Network News decided to interview VB leader Filip DeWinter and get to the bottom of things. Another crypto-Nazi party masquerading as “conservative”? Or a genuine conservative party getting a bad rap from jihadist apologists? “Tom Paine” of SNN concluded it’s the former; his partner, “Brian of London,” evidently disagreed. Sharply, too, as it sounds for all the world in the aftermath like they won’t be working together in the future.

I encourage you to listen to the full interview at the link (or here at LGF if SNN won’t load for you), but if you’re pressed for time skip ahead to 31:24 near the end and listen to Tom’s final question to DeWinter followed by his own concluding remarks. Well worth your time.


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Lines are being drawn within the right-wing blogosphere, and indeed even within certain right-wing blogs.

Seriously??? There are some of us supporting these morons? Ugh.

Free Constitution on October 30, 2007 at 8:25 PM

And thusly, the legitimate anti-jihad movement in Europe is doomed to failure. The parliamentary system combined with Europe’s long and sordid history of extremist political parties (both left and right) guarantees that any legitimate political movement to counter Jihad in Europe will carry with it the parasites of racist organizations.

Either the Jihadists will win outright, through open Jihad and demographics, or there will be a rise from reactionaries and it will get bloody. Either way, it’s not pretty.

Nessuno on October 30, 2007 at 8:42 PM

Does anyone believe this precious, pompous ass ever took a knife to breathing sushi let alone a Nazi collaborator?

He lost all credibility with that puffy utterance.

Stephen M on October 30, 2007 at 8:46 PM

Dancing on the head of a pin with that answer.

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Does anyone believe this precious, pompous ass ever took a knife to breathing sushi let alone a Nazi collaborator?

He lost all credibility with that puffy utterance.

A prime example of losing credibility yourself there Stephen M.

The problem with the European right is a cultural one. Europe is not and has never been a collection of immigrant states. They are ethnic and tribal states. France is not an idea in the way America is, nor is Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Italy or the rest. The racialist tendencies of European conservatives will never go away. The Brits are the exception. We’ll always find a few allies in European populations, but when Europe finally responds seriously to jihad in twenty years, we’ll be fighting Nazis again, not Muslims.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 9:32 PM

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 9:32 PM

Insightful. In your secenario, what happens to Europe’s Muslims? What will the “new Nazis” do to draw us in?

JiangxiDad on October 30, 2007 at 9:40 PM

Don’t count SNN out yet.

The boys are fighting because I’ve been too busy with life events to help out. I go away for a couple of weeks….

Hey, Stephen, that’s not what Tom meant. You should try listening to the podcast more often and maybe not making snap judgments over one sentence.

Meryl Yourish on October 30, 2007 at 9:41 PM

I thought it was unanimous. That we should get rid of the unsavory elements of the anti jihad movement. Well, this split says a lot about some people.

mram on October 30, 2007 at 9:48 PM

The problem with the European right is a cultural one. Europe is not and has never been a collection of immigrant states. They are ethnic and tribal states.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 9:32 PM

Exactly!

The racialist tendencies of European conservatives will never go away.

I think maybe you mean “tendencies of Europeans”, lest we forget the radical tendencies of hard-core Commies, and our favorite-to-despise national socialists the Nazis, both of which are born of secular socialist movements.

The term “conservative” does not automatically insinuate “extreme”. And the term “liberal” does not automatically mean “not hatefully racist”.

Lawrence on October 30, 2007 at 10:00 PM

What is a crypto-Nazi?

MB4 on October 30, 2007 at 10:01 PM

M. Steyn has written on this extensively, and I fear that we are whistling down this road. If reasonable people refuse to speak about the dangers of the creaping Islamization of society, than unreasonable people will fill the void.

sweeper on October 30, 2007 at 10:04 PM

Insightful. In your secenario, what happens to Europe’s Muslims? What will the “new Nazis” do to draw us in?

Dunno. It’s a least a decade away and that’s too far to determine specifics. Way too many variables among the three principal actors: Jihadists, Fascists, and the willfully blind Left. Two things you can count on are the instincts of Fascists and the willingness of the European population to turn their eyes from horror if they aren’t immediatly and personally threatened.

It’s a recipe for a repeat of European history. People seem to think WWII was an aberration in European history, but it was par for the course. The last 60 years of Pax Americana has been the abberation. And these days the seams are showing in the European peace in ways that we can’t really solve . It’s not imminent, but it is inevitable. At least, in my judgement it is.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:12 PM

We should refuse to bail out Europe for a 3rd time. They enabled a lot of this islamic crapola by letting it fester under the guise of political correctness. Let them lie in their bed, even it means aryans vs. muslims.

SouthernGent on October 30, 2007 at 10:13 PM

And now, even as our liberties are no longer threatened by Communism and we face a new threat from Islam, we still seem to have Nazis on the brain. Our liberties are contracting every day in the face of expansionist Islam, but it is still the specter of Nazism that distracts us–some of us, anyway.
I refer to the very upsetting and undeserved Internet attacks–mainly being lent credence by the blog Little Green Footballs–on Vlaams Belang, the Flemish secessionist party in Belgium. The attacks allege that Vlaams Belang has ties and allegiance to Nazi-type ideologies and organizations. I find these attacks both sloppy and unconvincing. Vlaams Belang is not only the most stalwart, resolutely anti-jihad party in Europe that I know of, but also–and, not at all incidentally–the most pro-Israel party in Europe that I know of. In other words, it is ridiculous to suggest that they are Nazis–neo-, South American, Religious Right, or Other.
Indeed, it is crucial to understand that Vlaams Belang’s political opponents in Europe are the Islamo-Socialist Left, which is where vicious anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism now finds its ideological home. Vlaams Belang is fighting, virtually alone, the Islamization of Europe. For that they deserve both our gratitude and our support.
- Diana West (BTW, Diana writes for Jewish World Review a well known anti semitic neo nazi organization.)

MB4 on October 30, 2007 at 10:14 PM

I think maybe you mean “tendencies of Europeans”,

Good point.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:14 PM

MB4 on October 30, 2007 at 10:14 PM

Diana is wrong. The neo-Nazi designation is meant to underline the racialist tendencies of Vlaams Belang’s leaders, not simple anti-semitism. And opposing jihadis isn’t enough to let you in my bed. Bin Laden hates the Saudi government and so do I, but I want democracy and he wants a more Islamist tyranny. We aren’t on the same side. I want a free Europe, but not a Europe for native ethnicities only. You should follow the links in Allahpundit’s post. These are Fascists in Anti-Jihad clothing. We don’t have to associate with them.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:22 PM

We should refuse to bail out Europe for a 3rd time. They enabled a lot of this islamic crapola by letting it fester under the guise of political correctness. Let them lie in their bed, even it means aryans vs. muslims.

We’re better than that. There will be many innocents under those sandals and bootheels. If we can help in that day we should.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:25 PM

What is a crypto-Nazi?

You call me that again and I’ll punch you in the goddamned head

JasonG on October 30, 2007 at 10:25 PM

Diana is wrong.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:22 PM

No offense but I think I’ll put “a little more weight” on Diana West’s analysis than I will on yours. Hey, maybe that’s just me.
BTW, Europe is not being taken over by Nazis or by the Ori either. That is ridiculously. Al Gore’s Global Warming is more credible.

MB4 on October 30, 2007 at 10:32 PM

No offense but I think I’ll put “a little more weight” on Diana West’s analysis than I will on yours.

That much is obvious MB4.

Europe is not being taken over by Nazis

Nobody said it was. The anti-jihadist movement in Europe is however in danger of being taken over by racist idiots and if you followed the links you’d see that. But you go ahead and put “a little more weight” on Daina’s analysis. Don’t bother listening to or watching the plainly racist speeches in the links. If Diana says so, it must be so, and damn your lying eyes and ears for testifying against her.

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:44 PM

The anti-jihadist movement in Europe is however in danger of being taken over by racist idiots

The Apologist on October 30, 2007 at 10:44 PM

How are the racist idiots going to take over? Do you think that they are in the majority? Of course if they get ray-guns from one of Dennis Kucinich’s UFO’s they could do it while still being in a small minority. That did not occur to me until just now, so maybe you are right. And of course if they have imprisoned Robert Spencer and replaced him with an evil clone that would help too. Oh no!!! They will be taking over in America soon too!!! I better build another moat around my house.

MB4 on October 30, 2007 at 10:57 PM

Sad news. I am a fan of SNN, of Tom, and of Brian.

In the words of Zaphod Beeblebrox: “Aw, BELGIUM, man!”

sulla on October 30, 2007 at 11:03 PM

“…I want a free Europe, but not a Europe for native ethnicities only…”

Why not?

It’s their land. Can’t they decide who comes in?

I’m sure the Native American’s regret their immigration policies.

The “ideological test” is more what I care about (e.g.: Islam being anti-Bill of Rights), but if people don’t want ANY immigrants, that’s their good right.

It’s their land.

Their ideas of “race” are scientifically absurd and historically / intellectually repellent.

But their wish to preserve their own lands is their good right.

They just need to frame their argument without the bile.

If they somply said:

We are full. We don’t need any immigrants.”

-that would be reasonable enough a rationale for me.

Just leave the neo-nazi/fascist crap out of the equation.

It’s not only irrelevant, it’s repulsive.

profitsbeard on October 30, 2007 at 11:04 PM

exactly. what “tom paine” said.

jummy on October 31, 2007 at 12:39 AM

But what if these “unsavory” parties are the only people with the b@lls to stand up and resist? Maybe they are to fascist Islam what chemo is to cancer.
Poisonous, sickening, and necessary.

dhimwit on October 31, 2007 at 9:04 AM

WoW! Thank you Allah and Hot Air for alerting me to this link and making it available. And I don’t mean that sarcastically even if I say, having listened, I am more confused than ever.

Nyog_of_the_Bog on October 31, 2007 at 9:52 AM

I listened to the statement at 31:24. Well, his original statement sounded horrible his explanation was perfectly understandable to me. I haven’t heard of these guys at all so I may be missing why some here are calling him racist… are there more quotes, actions, etc? Please link.

craig on October 31, 2007 at 10:34 AM

Thanks for the link to this one, AP. I have to say, that podcast was a model of excellent interview journalism — no ambushes, no nastiness, no emotional interjection by the interviewer. Just calm, strong questioning.

Very good points in the Apologist’s comments here, as well. Makes me dubious about what the future holds for Europe. But then, I’ve been dubious for a while.

Well-Armed Lamb on October 31, 2007 at 10:51 AM

I listened to the statement at 31:24. Well, his original statement sounded horrible his explanation was perfectly understandable to me.

Craig,

That’s the trap.

Krydor on October 31, 2007 at 11:13 AM

We should refuse to bail out Europe for a 3rd time. They enabled a lot of this islamic crapola by letting it fester under the guise of political correctness. Let them lie in their bed, even it means aryans vs. muslims.

SouthernGent on October 30, 2007 at 10:13 PM

3rd time? You guys bailed out half of Europe once and did it half assed after Hitler wrecked it and after you were attacked by a common enemy. Good job.

Darth Executor on October 31, 2007 at 11:19 AM

Krydor, the difference between a “trap” and a out-of-context quote is the history. I haven’t heard any history to bury him yet.

craig on October 31, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Craig,

When a guy says he would consider himself a failure if his daughter married outside her race/culture and manages to make an explanation that seems ok, then it is a trap. Nazis and their ilk have a knack for making the most insane pronouncements seem somewhat rational.

Would you accept that explanation from a guy like, I dunno, who is a political leader in North America… George W. Bush or Bill Clinton? Of course not. Yet it seems somehow plausible from some Danish dude with some sketchy ties?

Krydor on October 31, 2007 at 12:32 PM

Well as Leonard Cohen (I know, a damn marxist too) once said, “There is a War,” even “Between the ones who say there is a War and the ones who say that there isn’t.”

Be it race or a political blog, it should come as no great surprise to any one that human beings will find cause to coalesce around any manner of rational and in multiple ways.

Nyog_of_the_Bog on October 31, 2007 at 1:36 PM

Don’t count us out yet.

Tom and Brian are not going to let this argument kill SNN if I have anything to say about it.

And I do. Tom has recanted his “This is the end” post. SNN will continue after a short break.

Meryl Yourish on October 31, 2007 at 1:55 PM