Open thread: The “everyone nukes Hillary” debate! Video: Richardson sucks up to Hillary; Video: Obama raps Hillary over archive secrecy

posted at 8:37 pm on October 30, 2007 by Allahpundit

9 p.m. ET on MSNBC. “For the second presidential debate in a row, Hillary Rodham Clinton can expect to be everyone’s punching bag,” writes the AP, which is reason enough to watch. Obama’s been promising to go on the offensive; if he ducks her this time, his supporters will be exasperated and the perception will be that he’s soft. What’s more interesting is how she fends him off. Does she play the damsel in distress by intoning about how his campaign is supposed to be about hope, not attacks? Or does she surprise everyone by showing a little steel for the fence-sitters leery of a woman as C-in-C and go on the offensive herself by nailing him on his “semi-gay” semi-celebrity supporter, Donnie McClurkin? That would be a shrewd, easy way to get to his left on a hot-button issue for the benefit of the base.

If you’re watching, you know what to do. E-mail us if you see something clipworthy, please.

Update: Something to chew on while you wait.

So I was down in DC this past weekend and happened to run into a well-connected media person, who told me flatly, unequivocally that “everyone knows” The LA Times was sitting on a story, all wrapped up and ready to go about what is a potentially devastating sexual scandal involving a leading Presidential candidate. “Everyone knows” meaning everyone in the DC mainstream media political reporting world. “Sitting on it” because the paper couldn’t decide the complex ethics of whether and when to run it. The way I heard it they’d had it for a while but don’t know what to do. The person who told me )not an LAT person) knows I write and didn’t say “don’t write about this”.

More (Bryan): Chris Roberts, a frequent commenter here at Hot Air, is on the scene at Drexel U and is liveblogging the debate. He’s sitting a couple of rows in front of The New Republic’s rep, fwiw. I asked him to ask TNR why Franklin Foer never returns my phone calls.

Update: Hi, I’m Bill Richardson and I’d really, really like to be Hillary’s vice president.

Update: Obama’s best Hillary-themed answer of the night. The bit at the end when he addresses her directly made me sit up and take notice. He and Silky are right, too.


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Two America’s is back!

geez, these guys are one trick ponies.

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:39 PM

How did a question about hedge funds consistently turn into an answer about how bad the Iraq War is?

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:35 PM

Easy; they’re all clones of Paul-Nut.

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM

Where’s Gravel by the way?

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:36 PM

He was voted the weakest link by PMSNBC and kicked off Fantasy Island.

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:38 PM

Pre-K seems to have become a mandatory talking point too. Can’t start that government indoctrination too early I guess.

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:41 PM

A national teaching university? Are you serious? And who sets the teaching standards?

Also, haven’t they noticed that in relation to higher education and math/sciences, students FROM other countries come here and that’s a large portion of these engineers and scientists being created in the world?

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:41 PM

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM

Survivor-Philadelphia?

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:43 PM

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:41 PM

I bet all the pre-K classes would watch An Inconvenient Truth too. It would be part of the federal funding guidelines….

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:43 PM

Pre-K seems to have become a mandatory talking point too. Can’t start that government indoctrination too early I guess.

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:41 PM

The earlier you get them, the more-committed they’ll be (in more ways than one).

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:44 PM

You could say that.

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:44 PM

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:43 PM

It would probably have to use cartoon characters. Kucinich could play Gores part. At least until nap time when they could let Al’s voice come through.

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 10:46 PM

I wonder how Edwards is going to answer this medical question…

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:46 PM

The DC scandal has to be more salacious than just an affair. And from Rosenbaum’s characterization, it seems like it’s got to be a frontrunner (or it wouldn’t be so relevant to the race’s outcome) and it’s got to be a Democrat (or the lid would have slipped off by now). What are some of the most salacious possible aggravating circumstances for each candidate that might inspire such media trepidation? Clinton: it’s a woman. Obama: It’s a white woman. Edwards: it’s someone involved in the care of his wife. Or a man. /fevered speculation>

flip on October 30, 2007 at 10:48 PM

SHOCK: Edwards did not say make a mint off of ambulance chasing

Also, Hillary! said a problem in medicine is that private insurance burdens doctors through bureaucracy… and universal health care will do what exactly towards that end?

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:49 PM

I haven’t seen all of this, but basically every answer starts with:

“Government should take this over! Private companies are corrupt! Only trust government! Government will protect you! Go Government!”

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 10:50 PM

“Airlines have done it on the backs of consumers”

Hey Barack… ummm, if consumers felt exploited, they’d use a different airline.

Seriously, you can get a $100 ticket cross country, and Barack thinks this is exploitation. These people do not live in reality.

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 10:52 PM

I haven’t seen all of this, but basically every answer starts with:

“Government should take this over! Private companies are corrupt! Only trust government! Government will protect you! Go Government!”

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 10:50 PM

That basic truth about the ‘Rats is why I simply followed this lovefest between the ‘Rats and MSNBC through various live/open threads.

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Wow, Russert nailing them down on DL’s for illegal immigrants. Hillary equivocating!!!

DCA on October 30, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Oooh! Catfight, catfight!

FireFly on October 30, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Hillary!: Illegals drive on our roads, its just a probability that there will be an accident. So it’s better to draw them out to give them a license…

And how does a license change that probability? Especially since a license doesn’t equate to INSURANCE, which is what you really want to see in an accident.

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:54 PM

HRC is on the record now for wanting 3 different DL’s.

DCA on October 30, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Chris Dodd may be the only reasonable Dem up there.

He should throw in the towel right now. He’s doomed.

And Hillary dodges, LOL. BLAME BUSH!

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Dogpile on Hillary XD.

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 10:55 PM

flip on October 30, 2007 at 10:48 PM

It’s Bill. If I was a betting person, I’d bet money on it. He is the only one they (MSM) would protect.

Sue on October 30, 2007 at 10:56 PM

Ooh, Obama is on board for the NY license plan. Huz-zah!

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:57 PM

Kucinich admitting for the dozen viewers he has seen multiple UFOs.

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 10:57 PM

Dennis…proud UFO spotter!

Drew on October 30, 2007 at 10:58 PM

Obama may be pro illegal alien, but is is anti alien. A fine line, my friend…

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 10:59 PM

Kucinich just got owned.

14% means more people believe in UFOs than the U.S. Congress. Bush currently has double the UFO site rating.

And seriously “Is there life on other planets?”

What kind of question is that.

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 10:59 PM

Does everyone see now why democrats won’t go on Fox to debate?

Sue on October 30, 2007 at 10:59 PM

It’s all Booooosh’s fault!

FireFly on October 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM

flip on October 30, 2007 at 10:48 PM

The Rielle Hunter thing?

JiangxiDad on October 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM

It must be getting close to the end, the questions are getting quite soft.

Weebork on October 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM

Seems Bush is to blame for everything.

DCA on October 30, 2007 at 11:02 PM

Thank God it’s over. What a nightmare.

FireFly on October 30, 2007 at 11:03 PM

If it weren’t for Bush:

-American children would be more intelligent, yet use this power peacefully
-medical cures to various diseases would be abundant
-we would have tons of easy cash to spend on shiny new programs
-we would be energy independent
-illegal immigration would not exist in the shadows, or something

Wineaholic on October 30, 2007 at 11:05 PM

There should be a “BING!” noise that’s sounded every time certain words are said.

Among them, BING! words shall include at least the following:

Bush
Halliburton
Children
oil companies
corporations
Walmart
Bush!
progressive
comprehensive

Weebork on October 30, 2007 at 11:06 PM

Add carrot, stick, saber.

benrand on October 30, 2007 at 11:08 PM

Thank God it’s over. What a nightmare.

FireFly on October 30, 2007 at 11:03 PM

Comment of the night!

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 11:09 PM

Ron Paul signs in the back LOL

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 11:11 PM

The big winner in the debate tonight goes to:

Everyone who was smart enough to watch/listen/read something else!

A request though, since Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are essentially the same, short, conspiracy-laden nutjob with a cult following: Dennis Kucinich is not as shrill sounding as Ron Paul, so is it OK if we just switch out Ron Paul with Kucinich in GOP debates?

Weebork on October 30, 2007 at 11:12 PM

Oh no…..Tweety Bird just said they were going to have a poll to say who won.

Want to bet it’s Ron Paul?

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 11:12 PM

Sheesh Chris, do you think it’s because Richardson wants the VP slot?

RW_theoriginal on October 30, 2007 at 11:14 PM

Any recap thread created over this debate should definitely include the ZZzzzzz at the bottom.

For the most part, the Democrat candidates are running against president Bush. Only in a few instances was any GOP candidate mentioned.

How nice that the best part for the whole debate revolved around a triangle-shaped UFO.

Weebork on October 30, 2007 at 11:16 PM

He trusts her. Ahh ! ! Those famous Clinton words.

Texyank on October 30, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Ron Paul signs in the back LOL

BKennedy on October 30, 2007 at 11:11 PM

I’m shocked, SHOCKED!

Oh, and put those winnings in the usual place.

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 11:16 PM

The Rielle Hunter thing?

JiangxiDad on October 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM

Rosenbaum says it’s not that.

flip on October 30, 2007 at 11:17 PM

The big winner in the debate tonight goes to:

Everyone who was smart enough to watch/listen/read something else!…

Weebork on October 30, 2007 at 11:12 PM

How about those of us who watched something else while using various live threads/blogs to keep an eye on the madness?

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 11:18 PM

steveegg,

Bing!

Weebork on October 30, 2007 at 11:20 PM

Final talk-o-meter update (thank you, Michelle, for putting it up on your open thread so I don’t have to go too far to find it):

Clinton 22:01
Obama 19:09
MSNBC 18:26 (at least I’m presuming that’s an “8″ instead of the listed “0″ because the chart shows them ahead of the rest of the pack)
Edwards 16:32
Dodd 9:36
Richardson 7:50
Kucinich 7:25
Biden 6:07

steveegg on October 30, 2007 at 11:26 PM

Dennis supports giving licenses to aliens.

dont taze me bro on October 30, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Ohhhhh baby!!!! Watching Hillary squirm in the second clip was delicious!

Yeah, Hillary, that’s what happens when you can’t manage the crowds for clever clean sound bites.

csdeven on October 30, 2007 at 11:57 PM

I couldn’t tell where Richardson’s lips ended and Hillary’s a$$ began.

csdeven on October 31, 2007 at 12:00 AM

a potentially devastating sexual scandal involving a leading Presidential candidate.

Sounds like “What’s a dollar?” has secretly released some information about his vaunted playboy days in Washington DC.

Man that $8 million must be burning a hole in his wifes pocket!

csdeven on October 31, 2007 at 12:03 AM

Ohhhhh baby!!!! Watching Hillary squirm in the second clip was delicious!

Yeah, Hillary, that’s what happens when you can’t manage the crowds for clever clean sound bites.

csdeven on October 30, 2007 at 11:57 PM

Yea ! ! Obama better make sure his Secret Service guys
are alert tonight

Texyank on October 31, 2007 at 12:08 AM

Wow, that Richardson clip is just amazing. He’s pretty much acknowledged that he’s in it to place well enough to be useful but non-threatening, hasn’t he?

Obama looks a little weird — who does his TV makeup? he looks like he’s wearing Herman Munster lipliner — but I think presentation is still his big problem. The performance that put him on the map in 2004 at the Democratic National Convention is a high-water mark, but he’s not even close to his best form. He seems nervous and uncomfortable now that he’s not actually being received as the Messiah the way his press of a year ago would have it.

Well-Armed Lamb on October 31, 2007 at 2:02 AM

If looks could kill, Obama would have been killt as soon as Hillary lifted that glass of water to drink.

abinitioadinfinitum on October 31, 2007 at 2:55 AM

JOhn Edwards is the only snake oil phony that makes Bill Clinton look like an honest guy.

What an fk’n snake.

mylegsareswollen on October 31, 2007 at 3:05 AM

Richardson is now Hillary’s fluffer.

A pathetic group running for President.

The Republicans far and away outclass this sorry Democratic field.

mylegsareswollen on October 31, 2007 at 3:10 AM

Richardson is now Hillary’s fluffer.

mylegsareswollen on October 31, 2007 at 3:10 AM

Let us not forget Richardson’s involvement in the Bill Clinton cover up effort during the Monica Lewinsky era.

Richardson was our UN representative at the time and, at the request of Bill Clinton, offered her a job at the UN to get her out of DC (i.e. pay her a big salary for doing nothing). I think this was a form of hush money to get her to shut her mouth (pun intended). She turned down the job offer. If I remember correctly Richardson then went on to lie about his involvement in the cover-up.

Maybe Hillary is going to pick him to be her VP as some kind of pay-back. Is this why he is trying to protect her from attacks by the other candidates?

Maybe someone out there can remember his involvement better than I do but he was definitely involved in the cover-up.

OBX Pete on October 31, 2007 at 4:03 AM

The Queen was not happy.

What happened to the cackle ?

stenwin77 on October 31, 2007 at 6:53 AM

It’s the “two cultures” issue in journalism that harkens back tothe days when insider journalists “protected” JFK, so they could remain part of the club.

Real republicans aren’t part of the club so this story the la times is sitting on is likely about a democrat and one of the front runners at that. A sex story about kucinich, biden or dodd would just make people roll their eyes. The msms is already ignoring everyone but clinton and obama and edwards is quickly slipping into irrelevance. If the subject of the story becomes the unbeatable ffrontrunner we will never see the story. They will release it about the also-ran as soon as they are certain so the frontrunner doesn’t chose him/her as the vp.

peacenprosperity on October 31, 2007 at 7:10 AM

I didn’t watch any of the debate. Did anything worthwhile happen? Meaning, did anything happen to change the current status of the democratic primary?

Darksean on October 31, 2007 at 8:06 AM

What happened to the cackle ?

stenwin77 on October 31, 2007 at 6:53 AM

The same advisors who told her to do it in the first place probably told her not to do it again. Hillary doesn’t make a move without advice and practicing which way to make the move. It was certainly ridiculous advice.

OBX Pete on October 31, 2007 at 8:54 AM

I’m struggling here to find a way to describe or explain Democrats, and the only thing I come up with, and I’m being serious here, is mental retardation. Seriously – what else could explain the utter lack of rational thinking on display every single time one of them opens their mouth? If someone has a better explanation, let me know.

Halley on October 31, 2007 at 12:41 PM

Poor little Hillary, picked on by two lightweights.
I know it takes a tough skin and XXL ego to run for President, but in the old days, when referring to themselves as the people’s “Humble servant”, the candidates at least bothered to fake humility. Now it’s seen as weakness. Now it’s, “I’m the strong horse.”
You know who actually seems to be a humble servant? George Bush. The anti-Democrat so hated by these blowhards. The one re-elected when his opponent was the very posterchild of disdainful Pride.
I think he’s a better man than Hillary will ever be.

Doug on October 31, 2007 at 2:13 PM

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