Conservative student group invites racist Holocaust denier to speak on Islam

posted at 8:49 pm on October 27, 2007 by Allahpundit

They call themselves YAF but that stands for Young Americans for Freedom, not Jason Mattera’s group, the Young America’s Foundation. (I did a double take the first time I saw it.) An abject disgrace, and not the first time this particular chapter has “distinguished itself” by its tactics. Here’s the Wikipedia entry on BNP leader Nick Griffin. Like I said about Ron Paul accepting that donation from Don Black, he can’t be blamed if he didn’t know whom he was dealing with. Did YAF know whom it was dealing with in Griffin? A-yup:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn’t believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

I’m guessing that the prevalence of Holocaust denial throughout the Middle East wasn’t part of Griffin’s critique. Charles advises the group to repent and apologize; given their culpability, I’d say it’s already too late for that.

The left will enjoy this story, of course, presenting as it does an opportunity to spin some lazy Olbermannesque “Larger Truths” about conservatism out of the fiasco. That’ll be a neat trick in one sense, as their usual complaint about us vis-a-vis those “New York money people” Wes Clark worries so much about is that we’re too cozy with them, not that we’re too antagonistic. Do savor the irony, though, that it’s LGF — the blog to which they so often maliciously attribute BNP-ish attitudes — that was the first to post on this. It’s of a piece with some of Charles’s other posts lately chronicling the slimier aspects of certain European critics of Islam, starting with this and more recently here. Read them both. These turds may sound like Ayaan Hirsi Ali in one sense, but whether they’d even be willing to receive her given her skin color is an open question. Shamefully, like YAF with Griffin, at least one righty blogger knocked Charles for writing those posts. All movements, political and otherwise, eventually face the temptation of “enemy of my enemy” logic. It’s seductive; it’s human nature. Resist it at every turn.

Update: The “conservatives” at MSU-YAF have pronounced LGF a “pro-Muslim, left-wing, politically correct” blog. Perfect.


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Comments

Resist it at every turn.

Agreed. It’s all too easy to cozy up with those who, on the surface, appear to share your sentiments. But when you’re that close, it’s just as easy to get painted with the same brush.

flipflop on October 27, 2007 at 8:59 PM

The BNP is the only political party in Britain to stand up to Islam, Muslims and Shariah: none of the others – Labour, Tories, LDP or anybody are doing it. If one is a Brit, and are looking for an outlet to express one’s outrage over the creeping Islamization of Britain, where does one go? Or do they just roll over and start donning their kaffiyas and jilbabs?

infidelpride on October 27, 2007 at 9:01 PM

Sure, one would prefer that non-racist alternatives exist, but when they don’t, guess who’d get picked

infidelpride on October 27, 2007 at 9:02 PM

For a moment there, I thought this “YAF” might be a serious group, albeit horribly misguided. Then I saw Charles’ update on the topic and now I feel much better.

After all, no one supports racist crazies quite like The Only Man Who Can Save America.

Wanderlust on October 27, 2007 at 9:05 PM

Why am I getting an Amtrak ad in Spanish over in the sidebar?

Bob's Kid on October 27, 2007 at 9:05 PM

If one is a Brit, and are looking for an outlet to express one’s outrage over the creeping Islamization of Britain, where does one go?

Start your own party.

Allahpundit on October 27, 2007 at 9:06 PM

It’s of a piece with some of Charles’s other posts lately chronicling the slimier aspects of certain European critics of Islam, starting with this and more recently here. Read them both.

I was so hoping you’d avoid this. Did you read Gates of Vienna’s material on Vlaams Belang?

Charles went on an ideological purge last week and banned a lot of long time posters on his site for practically nothing. I respect you a lot, AP. Please don’t start down Charles’ road on this one. He was even browbeating Fjordman in the comments and others who were actually at the latest SIOE rally and put their butts on the line for their cause.

Charles does not have all the facts on this one. Conservative Swede and Gates of Vienna are good reads before you just take his side.

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 9:06 PM

infelpride-

…where does one go?

You start a sane party that does the same thing.

Hiring the Mob for muscle ends up with you getting muscled, too.

All fascists, Islamic or homegrown, are scum.

profitsbeard on October 27, 2007 at 9:08 PM

This appears to be nothing more than a direct attack on Jason Mattera’s group. It’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing kind of thing.

It was no accident that this new group named itself YAF and then proceeded to do disgraceful things. Jason’s group just needs to come out strong that there is NO connection between his group and the smear tactic group that is trying to defame the original YAF and conservative in general.

Maxx on October 27, 2007 at 9:14 PM

I’m skeptical of the Wiki entry on Griffin (to say the least). I’ll try to track down some articles but I believe Griffin has recanted his ‘youthful indiscretions’ as far as the Holocaust goes.

Regardless, the BNP is perhaps the 4th largest party in the UK and with each election it gains more votes and more seats, especially at the local level. I think that alone means that Griffin, as head of the BNP, as the man who has organized these wins, deserves to be heard.

Look, if Griffin had denied the Holocaust last week that would be one thing. But if we’re talking about things he said 20 years ago then I think we are heading down the wrong path. We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Why am I getting an Amtrak ad in Spanish over in the sidebar?

Bob’s Kid on October 27, 2007 at 9:05 PM

See… the NAU has arrived. :-)

Maxx on October 27, 2007 at 9:17 PM

We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I think better allies can be found than repentant asshats.

profitsbeard on October 27, 2007 at 9:21 PM

Geez. Every time I think the battle lines are drawn, up pops another enemy. I don’t think Bass Pro even has enough ammo.

RedWinged Blackbird on October 27, 2007 at 9:22 PM

From the BNP site.

Your leader is on record denying the Holocaust ever happened and claiming that Jews control the media – you are clearly an anti-Semitic party.

Not at all. Dredging up quotes from 10, 15, 20 years ago is really pathetic and, in a sense, rather fascist. Everyone knows that people’s political philosophies evolve and change as they develop – at least three Labour ministers were previously Communist Party members, for instance – and Nick Griffin has repeatedly stated that he has changed his views since then. The BNP is in no way anti-Semitic nor do we deny the Holocaust. We have many Jewish members and are pleased to have a Jewish councillor in Epping, who is, indeed, the group leader there.

This probably won’t settle any arguments but to so clearly state that they do not deny the Holocaust on their own site should count for something.

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 9:24 PM

No one here has heard of Young Americans for Freedom? Seriously?

Granted, their heyday is likely long past, but Y.A.F.’s provenance and conservation credentials were, at least at one time, fairly well respected.

The Sharon Statement is the founding statement of principles of the Young Americans for Freedom.

Written by M. Stanton Evans with the assistance of Annette Kirk, wife of the late Russell Kirk, [1] and adopted on September 11, 1960, the statement is named for the location of the inaugural meeting of Young Americans for Freedom, held at William F. Buckley, Jr.’s estate in Sharon, Connecticut.

The composition of their national advisory board could best be described as illustrious, as the link below, a jpeg of a letter written, on official stationary, by the national organization to the Michigan State chapter, can well attest.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_f_UMP3iQDAI/Rh_ENsqQAFI/AAAAAAAAAH8/kEvTm4JIvy4/s1600-h/Picture.JPG

tad on October 27, 2007 at 9:27 PM

it was no accident that this new group named itself YAF and then proceeded to do disgraceful things.

Young Americans for Freedom have been around since 1960.

tad on October 27, 2007 at 9:29 PM

i suggest you read the transcript of what Griffin said at the speech, its been printed at LGF in the comments section i will find it.

zane on October 27, 2007 at 9:30 PM

LiveBlog: Nick Griffin speech at MSU Friday night


After a march across campus, about 60 students opposed to Nick Griffin have entered the speaking location at the MSU Vet Med Clinic.

In attendance with Griffin who has just begun speaking is flanked by white supremacist Preston Wiginton.

Protesters are disrupting the speech from Griffin. Protesters are demanding to know about Griffin’s “terrorist activities.”
Nick Griffin just told protesters that he would “shove homosexuals back in the closet and kill them.”

“If we had American or Britain threatened by radical Christians I would speak against that too. There is not a clear and present danger,” Griffin said.

Nick accused protesters of being “bused in from Detroit.”

“I want to explain why people like you see me as a racist pig.”

His explanation,”We don’t believe we are better.”

“We don’t believe in integration. Integration is extermination.”

“I have in the past said very rude things about the holocaust,” Griffin said. “I have never denied it, and I do not doubt so many Jews were killed by the Nazis and the Allies.”

“My credentials are I have a degree in history and law. I am significantly older than most of you are here, and I have spoken with many many Muslims,” Griffin told the crowd to explain why he was qualified to talk about Muslims.

“Muslims gang rape women in Norway and other cultures. Only Muslims do this,” Griffin said.

“I am not a Nazi,” said Preston Wiginton when asked who he was. “I am just a person who loves my people. You are the ones being the fascists!”

“There’s too much propaganda going on here, we need to end this,” growled one protester.

“You seek to deny the white people of the world the right to collect in their own community and self determinations; then you are a racist,” Griffin said.

“I have not been to Stormfront in a year,” said Preston Wiginton to questions about his ties to the white supremacy website.

“People are genetically programmed to fight people who do not look like them,” Griffin said.

The fire alarm has gone off; the university is not evacuating the building, nor have fire department personnel arrived on site. The speech continues over the sound of the fire alarm.

As Griffin finished speaking the fire alarm stopped. There was an orderly exit from the building; however, when four YAF members attempted to go to their car, they were chased by protesters who screamed, “Go get them!”

MSU police are searching the campus for these alleged assailants who were seen chasing YAF members into a parking ramp. Among the YAF members was Tyler Whitney, former chair of YAF’s Western Michigan University chapter. No injuries are reported at this time. MSU police are escorting YAF members off campus.

zane on October 27, 2007 at 9:34 PM

i am a long time critic of charles johnson, but i absoloutly salute him for his recent denunciations of all these parties.

zane on October 27, 2007 at 9:36 PM

this is terrible. they’ve permanently stained a legacy.

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 9:36 PM

The composition of their national advisory board could best be described as illustrious, as the link below, a jpeg of a letter written, on official stationary, by the national organization to the Michigan State chapter, can well attest.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_f_UMP3iQDAI/Rh_ENsqQAFI/AAAAAAAAAH8/kEvTm4JIvy4/s1600-h/Picture.JPG

tad on October 27, 2007 at 9:27 PM

I looked at your link and given the point you are making its almost unfair to bring this up. But I noticed that Senator Larry Craig, of toe tapping fame, is listed as one of their advisers.

I was under the impression this was a new group but by the looks of things, Young Americans for Freedom has been around perhaps longer than Jason Mattera’s group.

Maybe Young Americans for Freedom just had a brain dead moment.

Maxx on October 27, 2007 at 9:40 PM

They just seem misguided. They shouldn’t give legitimacy to these people. But they may think that they will shout them down once they get him to appear and speak. It is a bad idea though. Hopefully they’ll reconsider.

ThackerAgency on October 27, 2007 at 9:42 PM

zane on October 27, 2007 at 9:34 PM

zane, thanks, that wraps up Mr Griffin as far as I’m concerned. One hates to condemn based solely on Wikipedia, but his own words do that just fine.

Splunge on October 27, 2007 at 9:44 PM

there have for a long time been a number of posters at lgf who let their anti-jihadism cross over into really vile bigotry. i’m glad to hear that charles has finally gotten around to cleaning house.

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 9:45 PM

yaf and yaf are two parts of the same organization:

http://www.yaf.org/faq/index.cfm#YAF

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 9:51 PM

there have for a long time been a number of posters at lgf who let their anti-jihadism cross over into really vile bigotry. i’m glad to hear that charles has finally gotten around to cleaning house.

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 9:45 PM

What about fjordman? Getting crushed. Is there a reason why a country shouldn’t be majority white and christian?

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 9:56 PM

blockquote>Look, if Griffin had denied the Holocaust last week that would be one thing. But if we’re talking about things he said 20 years ago then I think we are heading down the wrong path. We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 9:16 PM

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 9:57 PM

I looked at your link and given the point you are making its almost unfair to bring this up.

How, pray tell, would that be unfair? Jesus Christ. Facts are now unfair?

This from the guy who needn’t bother to use either Google or Wikipedia in order to find out that Y.A.F. has been in existence for almost 38 years.

But don’t worry: I’m sure Y.A.F. got Cheney, George Allen, et al., to sign up just in time to add credibility to Y.A.F.’s stealing the names of other people’s organizations, among them Young America’s Foundation, in the furtherance of their bid to “do disgraceful things.”

It’s hardly my intention to come off as a giant dick here, but you just found out the organization even exists.

tad on October 27, 2007 at 9:58 PM

All movements, political and otherwise, eventually face the temptation of “enemy of my enemy” logic. It’s seductive; it’s human nature. Resist it at every turn.

lol.
Except in Iraq apparently.

MB4 on October 27, 2007 at 10:00 PM

What about fjordman? Getting crushed. Is there a reason why a country shouldn’t be majority white and christian?

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 9:56 PM

This is the baffling thing to me.

Are the English not allowed to act in their own ethnic interests against the Muslim invaders? Aren’t most of teh counter-jihad protesters made up of various indigenous (there’s that word again) Europeans? Aren’t practically all of the jihadists non-European?

I understand not wanting Nazis and anti-semites in your group, definitely. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter a bit to the MSM whether or not there are any, and we could be sitting here across the pond hand-wringing that there’s Nazis at these SIOE rallies when that’s not the case and we don’t have the facts.

The Europeans need to act. Now. It will be an ideological struggle if they ever take it up en masse, but it will divide along ethnic lines. People really need to keep that in mind.

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 10:02 PM

Why am I getting an Amtrak ad in Spanish over in the sidebar?

Bob’s Kid on October 27, 2007 at 9:05 PM

Porque en otra generacion o por lo que sera el principal idioma hablado en los Estados Unidos de la Gran Mexico!

Hombre insensato.

MB4 on October 27, 2007 at 10:05 PM

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 10:02 PM

It just seemed to me that if these people are the vile racist, anti-semitic Nazis that some describe them as, that they sure haven’t been doing a very good job of it.

White European Christians have bent over backwards for half a century to atone for the sins of WWII. Now, after a decade or more of provocations, with their very culture, religion, and race at risk, we ask them to chill?

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 10:09 PM

Allahpundit said:

They call themselves YAF but that stands for Young Americans for Freedom, not Jason Mattera’s group, the Young America’s Foundation.

They’re sister organizations, actually.

Q. Are you the former Young Americans for Freedom (YAF) organization?
The two groups are totally separate organizations. They have separate Boards of Directors, separate offices, and separate staffs.

Young America’s Foundation is an educational organization that sponsors speakers on campus and in the community, provides activist resources and materials, holds conferences and seminars, and saved the Reagan Ranch. As an educational foundation, it engages in non-partisan and non-political activities; all contributions are completely tax deductible.

Young Americans for Freedom, on the other hand, engages in more activist programs such as political training and programs and more partisan activities such as demonstrations and conventions. As such, contributions to Young Americans for Freedom are not tax deductible.Young America’s Foundation’s leadership includes individuals who were or are active in Young Americans for Freedom including one chairman and three national executive directors. If you want your support to be tax deductible, you should support Young America’s Foundation.

http://www.yaf.org/faq/index.cfm#programs

tad on October 27, 2007 at 10:11 PM

Well if we are going to condemn the BNP then we’ll have to write off a substantial section of the British population. The number of Brits voting for the BNP has increased in every election for the last several years. The BNP site gets the most traffic of any political party site in the UK.

A website run by the far right British National Party is the most visited website of any UK political party, with more hits than all other parties put together, a survey has found. Hitwise, the online competitive intelligence service, said that more than seven times as many visitors click on to the BNP’s site as for the Labour Party and almost three times as many as for the Conservatives. … Young and well educated city dwellers are also over-represented amongst visitors to the BNP’s homepage.

And the BNP’s popularity among the ‘working class‘ is also growing.

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 10:17 PM

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 10:17 PM

Completely understandable.

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 10:32 PM

Porque en otra generacion o por lo que sera el principal idioma hablado en los Estados Unidos de la Gran Mexico!

Hombre insensato.

MB4 on October 27, 2007 at 10:05 PM

Yet another ethnic conflict heating up, brought on us by our wonderful big business overlords.

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 10:47 PM

Brits are overwhelmed by unlimited immigration and facing a hostile and growing (not to mention explosive) Muslim population. They are at the mercy of a spineless government who routinely lies about both issues as a matter of policy. The BNP may be distasteful to us, warm and cozy here in the US, but their growing support across broad sections of the indigenous British population indicates that what they are saying is resonating with real people, most of whom aren’t thugs, idiots or ‘racists’. We can ignore the BNP and its constituents or we can take this phenomenon seriously and try to understand what it means for the future of our relations with a very close ally.

Moreover, as the corrupt, dhimmi governments of Continental Europe continue to encourage the erosion of native cultures and the replacement of native peoples these rising rightists or neo-nationalists will gain ever more popularity. It is inevitable. Likewise it is just as inevitable that these movements, by the very nature of their populism, will be tainted with ‘racists’ and ‘bigots’ of various stripes. We can condemn these movements because of this and maintain out moral purity by standing aside, or we can engage these movements in dialogue., try to understand their domestic situation and the facts on the ground that drive their policies. The BNP, the VB, and the Northern League are only the most visible of a coming wave of popular neo-nationalist parties.

Despite LGF’s recent crusade against them, I cannot condemn the VB. It’s the largest party in Flanders and has been for some time. Are the Flemish an irredeemably racist people? I doubt it. I’m sure many of the members are disreputable people but their popularity is real and based on legitimate grievances.

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 10:48 PM

It just seemed to me that if these people are the vile racist, anti-semitic Nazis that some describe them as, that they sure haven’t been doing a very good job of it.

White European Christians have bent over backwards for half a century to atone for the sins of WWII. Now, after a decade or more of provocations, with their very culture, religion, and race at risk, we ask them to chill?

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 10:09 PM

Most conservatives are still living in the WWII era, it appears. We’ve got a new war this time, and a new enemy.

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Young America’s Foundation’s leadership includes individuals who were or are active in Young Americans for Freedom including one chairman and three national executive directors.

So what? A few people overlap. You do understand that only one college chapter is responsible for this incident with Griffin, yes?

Well if we are going to condemn the BNP then we’ll have to write off a substantial section of the British population.

Good. Consider them written off. Griffin is backing away from his Holocaust remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture voters disaffected by Islamists. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP — and please do see zane’s blockquote up here — then do so elsewhere.

Allahpundit on October 27, 2007 at 10:55 PM

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 10:48 PM

Agree. And it seems to me that political Islam is a far-right force. (The left will accommodate to it if lefty leaders can maintain positions of power.) I’m not only not surprised that a real challenge to Islam would come from the far right, but expect it to. What other philosophy is equipped to counter Islam with the Church so impotent and moribund?

None of this makes me happy, of course.

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 11:00 PM

Thomas the Wraith Makes good points. However, if not careful, it can become dangerous to your own political career saying anything that might sound similar to these guy’s “controversial” stances.

Why can’t we have a real conservative with NO checkered past just stand up and say, “If you move to America, expect American things. Don’t come here and get offended and try to file lawsuits because we don’t speak your language or demand you show your face for a photo ID.” “In our culture it is rude to go into someone’s home and try to make them change to accomodate you.” That is not racist, it is asking for common sense, tolerance, unserstanding, and respect for our already existing culture – which you chose to immigrate to.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:15 PM

It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP — and please do see zane’s blockquote up here — then do so elsewhere.

Allahpundit on October 27, 2007 at 10:55 PM

Fine. I found this on the BNP. Let everybody draw there own conclusions. I’m sure that won’t prevent us from internecine fighting and purges until the Islamists win.

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 11:19 PM

I’m not only not surprised that a real challenge to Islam would come from the far right, but expect it to. – JiangxiDad

This is because too many people want ot pander to the center out of fear of offending anyone. No wonder I see more and more panzies squeeking thru boot camp and elsewhere in the U.S. We are wussifying our nation and allowing problems to fester and expand exponentially by refusing ot address them and call them for what they are. Political Correctness in the name of trying to keep your job in office instead of standing up for something you believe in. Just as bad as the two-faced, back-stabbing co-worker.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:20 PM

If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP — and please do see zane’s blockquote up here — then do so elsewhere.

Allahpundit on October 27, 2007 at 10:55 PM

I certainly don’t want anyone to think I’m an apologist for the BNP (or any legal political party for that matter) and I’m sorry if I was unclear. I’m sure Griffin is a rather unlikeable chap and in his heart of hearts would probably scowl at me as a filthy race-mixer and damn me for miscongenation.

Nevertheless and despite out personal misgivings, the BNP, the VB and the Northern League in Italy (among others) gain support with each passing year. We will have to come to grips with this in the coming years and make an effort to understand and when possible engage these movements without necessarily endorsing them.

That said, this is obviously a sensitive topic. So, in a effort to avoid being banned, I wish you all a goodnight.

Thomas the Wraith on October 27, 2007 at 11:22 PM

*their

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 11:22 PM

The BNP is the only political party in Britain to stand up to Islam, Muslims and Shariah: none of the others – Labour, Tories, LDP or anybody are doing it. . . .

infidelpride on October 27, 2007 at 9:01 PM

You make an important point, infidelpride: The failure of the Tories to stand firm on what Brits call “the national question” created the political vacuum that has been filled by the BNP.

This is what our future may look like, if the GOP follows the path of John McCain/WSJ/GW Bush in betraying the taxpayers in order to appear “reasonable” on immigration.

Ali-Bubba on October 27, 2007 at 11:27 PM

Allahpundit I apologize for no one except for myself when I mess up. And I will not defend, but disagree, strongly, with this guest speaker. They could have very easily gotten the point across with another speaker, even if he wasn’t as well known. As a leader of a group like YAF, or YAF, I would use it as an oppertunity to stand out from the radical right and give someone new an oppertunity to shine.

It is possible to take a strong stance against people trying to change your country from the inside out (like some sneaky litigious(spelling?) muslims and associative organizations) without being racist. It is called enforcing your existing laws, and standing up for your country’s values and culture, while offering them assistance (like language lessons and other classes) and chances to assimilate and adapt. But we cant even find a politician willing to even 100% go thru with making English our national language.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:28 PM

I’m not only not surprised that a real challenge to Islam would come from the far right, but expect it to. What other philosophy is equipped to counter Islam with the Church so impotent and moribund?
JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 11:00 PM

umm, a strong but level headed conservative movement.?

This silly idea that you have to be some sort of racist of be cozy with people of that disposition in order to meet the rad islamic threat is really silly. Of course in Britain there has been nor real strong conservative movement to speak of in a while, Since William Hague and the torries lost their spine on basic conservative issues.

mainmann on October 27, 2007 at 11:29 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n2LQNNW2Cg&eurl=http://spartanspectator.blogspot.com/

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 11:23 PM

That was a typical left-wing hatchet-job. YAF has got a black man on their board, but they’re a race hate group?

You’re pretty much a leftist yourself, so I can see why a lecture like that would appeal to you.

This discussion has clarified a lot of things for me.

Bye all.

PRCalDude on October 27, 2007 at 11:33 PM

not only am i not interested in associating with blood-worshippers generally, i’m also not interested in the diminished credibility i’d have when opposing islamic blood-worshippers and similar phoney “nations”, let alone leftist death cults.

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 11:34 PM

The BNP is the only political party in Britain to stand up to Islam, Muslims and Shariah: none of the others – Labour, Tories, LDP or anybody are doing it. . . .

infidelpride

I re-iterate, the reason we don’t have more people stand up to these guys who aren’t radical right wingers is because they are afraid of being labeled as a radicala themselves by the MSM and the racist organizations like the ACLU (how ironic), Nation of Islam, CAIR, etc, thus ruining their political careers. It is not because they support Shariah. Although I am sure there are some liberals out there who might be tempted or turned on by the thought of Islamic subjugation of women.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:34 PM

bye nazi.

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 11:35 PM

Good. Consider them written off. Griffin is backing away from his Holocaust remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture voters disaffected by Islamists. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP — and please do see zane’s blockquote up here — then do so elsewhere.

Good. Consider him written off. Giuliania Il Duce™ is backing away from his partial birth abortion remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture Republican voters disaffected by HildaBeast the Antichrist™. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy man like Giuliania Il Duce™ — and please do see my and others quotes all over other threads — then do so elsewhere (or herewhere).

I like this game!

MB4 on October 27, 2007 at 11:40 PM

umm, a strong but level headed conservative movement.?

I was referring to Europe, not here. And as you yourself admitted, they don’t seem to have one. So I was not saying that far right racists are the only groups potentially capable of countering political Islam, but that it is no surprise that they will rise to counter this threat. If they are the only ones to do so, their numbers will grow.

Haven’t we seen this occur in Germany in the 30’s?

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 11:41 PM

MB4 on October 27, 2007 at 11:40 PM

i don’t think ap has ever been anything but skeptical in his coverage of guliani vis the theocons.

jummy on October 27, 2007 at 11:43 PM

MB4 LOL

Jummy Just who did you label “nazi”? You do realize that it is the radical muslims who are being violent or litigious and demanding we change to suit them in our own country, dont you? And it was Muslim leaders whom the Nazis sided with in WW2 with a shared agenda.

Standing up and defending your country’s customs and ideals makes you a nationalist, not a Nazi. Nazi’s had an evil world wide agenda. We just want to preserve our country.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:45 PM

Haven’t we seen this occur in Germany in the 30’s?

JiangxiDad

I would not use that example. Hitler used those grievences to his advantage to pave the way for his much bigger picture. He knew how to create villains, politically manipulate German’s perceptions of victimhood, and pass the blame.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:50 PM

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:50 PM

What I am saying is that a vacuum was created which allowed a monster like Hitler to come into power. No other more “reasonable” political party in Germany came up with an alternative that would meet the challenges that country was facing(depression, communism, liberalism.)

I fear that is what we are seeing in Europe. I am not for these far right parties. In better times, no one would give them the time of day. But there is a vacuum again, which is the non-response to radical Islam in the European body politic. So why be surprised if the far right element raises its face again?

JiangxiDad on October 27, 2007 at 11:55 PM

Standing up and defending your country’s customs and ideals makes you a nationalist, not a Nazi.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:45 PM

A few prime examples of American nationalists were and are:

George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Abraham Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Barry Goldwater
Ronald Reagan
Lou Dobbs
Tom Tancredo
Jeff Sessions

Pretty fair company.

MB4 on October 27, 2007 at 11:56 PM

The BNP site gets the most traffic of any political party site in the UK.

Ron Paul’s sites probably get the most traffic of any candidacy, visits don’t prove anything.

Good. Consider them written off. Griffin is backing away from his Holocaust remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture voters disaffected by Islamists. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP — and please do see zane’s blockquote up here — then do so elsewhere.

Allahpundit on October 27, 2007 at 10:55 PM

Damn straight Allah, I’m not about to ally with a bunch of white supremacists and fascists to get rid of the jihadists, there’s hardly a difference between the two, eff that.

Seriously, how is turning a blind eye to the wrongs and sick ideology of fascist groups in Europe any different than the what the left is doing now with the Jihadists? Answer: its isn’t.

Bad Candy on October 27, 2007 at 11:57 PM

JiangxiDad

my bad, I get your point now. Basically, since no one on the right or left are addressing the real issues, out of fear of the PC poolice or whatever, more and more people will eventually “have enough” and side with whoever will fix or solve their issue at that moment once it becomes intolerable to them. Thus how Hitler manipulated his way into dictatorship.

So, I still want to know who Jummy was calling a Nazi.

El Guapo on October 27, 2007 at 11:59 PM

Thus how Hitler manipulated his way into dictatorship.

Bingo

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 12:00 AM

Bingo

JiangxiDad

Maybe now that Trick or Treat is over, I should drink so I can think more clearly?

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:02 AM

GAZE

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 12:06 AM

I’m not about to ally with a bunch of white supremacists and fascists to get rid of the jihadists, there’s hardly a difference between the two, eff that.

Bad Candy on October 27, 2007 at 11:57 PM

I guess I missed the BNP bus bombings, assassinations and beheadings. I understand you don’t like the BNP but let’s not exaggerate the situation here. The jihadists have repeatedly killed and are now actively plotting to kill people throughout Europe. The BNP, while distasteful, is a legal party running candidates in elections. The two are hardly comparable.

Thomas the Wraith on October 28, 2007 at 12:08 AM

Thomas the Wraith

And in our political system, I highly doubt a congressman or President, even if he/she were a rightwing radical/racist and elected, our checks and balances would prevent a Hitler or David Duke from creating a tyrannical gov’t.

Moderates better speak out now. Before long, it could get so bad thet the other radicals will take over and openly fight back, either in office , or on the streets. Another reason to fix the problem now.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:13 AM

Thomas the Wraith on October 28, 2007 at 12:08 AM

Yeah, they don’t descend into that kind of overt savagery because they don’t get protection like the left gives jihadists, and we shouldn’t start giving that kind of protection to the dirtbags.

Bad Candy on October 28, 2007 at 12:14 AM

Bad Candy

I agree, but just because they have a history of racism, fascism, etc, that is not a reason to ignore the problem that they are exposing or addressing that others are too PC or afraid to address. I see it as more of a good reason to fix it before they do because you know how they want to fix it.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:18 AM

Moderates better speak out now. Before long, it could get so bad thet the other radicals will take over and openly fight back, either in office , or on the streets. Another reason to fix the problem now.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:13 AM

so, you’re holding us hostage now?

[yawn]

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 12:18 AM

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 12:18 AM

I have a minute, so I’ll play. Who’s “us”?

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 12:20 AM

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 12:20 AM

the people of the united states of america.

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 12:22 AM

Consider him written off. Giuliania Il Duce™ is backing away from his partial birth abortion remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture Republican voters disaffected by HildaBeast the Antichrist™. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy man like Giuliania Il Duce™ — and please do see my and others quotes all over other threads — then do so elsewhere (or herewhere).

I give you a racist Holocaust denier pretending to be mainstream to give nascent fascists cover to join his movement and you apologize for him by giving me a centrist conservative pretending to be a slightly less centrist conservative in return. Have a banana, MB.

This is one of the most valuable comment threads I’ve ever posted at HA. Nice to see where everyone stands.

Allahpundit on October 28, 2007 at 12:23 AM

so, you’re holding us hostage now?

[yawn]

jummy

Where did that come from? Are you a supporter of Shariah or just trying to instigate something?
I am all for fixing things and preserving national identiy and cultures before the extremists get fed up and take matters into their own hands. If we do it, it would only entail that immigrants follow already existing laws (and judges and law enforcement enforce them, and hopefully the creation of a national language). If radicals do it, it could mean bloodshed or outright unjust mass exportation and discrimination.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:24 AM

He’s not holding anyone hostage. He’s telling you your future, and he’s right.

Can’t play anymore. G’nite.

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 12:24 AM

Jummy, It is all about preventing one extreme from trying to counter another extreme. Which goes along the lines with the oath of office, “to protect my country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:25 AM

I give you a racist Holocaust denier pretending to be mainstream to give nascent fascists cover to join his movement and you apologize for him by giving me a centrist conservative pretending to be a slightly less centrist conservative in return. Have a banana, MB.

This is one of the most valuable comment threads I’ve ever posted at HA. Nice to see where everyone stands.

Allahpundit

Long live the USA and free speech! Otherwise we could never openly debate this. Maybe MB4 just hopes this wanker is a real convert from his intolerant and ignorant past. Everyone deserves a 2nd change. I say, actions are louder than words. Lets hear him comdemn and move against the radical right.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:29 AM

I agree, but just because they have a history of racism, fascism, etc, that is not a reason to ignore the problem that they are exposing or addressing that others are too PC or afraid to address. I see it as more of a good reason to fix it before they do because you know how they want to fix it.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:18 AM

Who’s ignoring the Jihadists? I’m not, most HotAir and LGF readers aren’t, there are plenty of decent Euros who aren’t, they need to grow a pair, and start a right or center right movement that abhors fascists and jihadists.

We can address the problem without resorting to allying with a bunch of fascist dirtbags who are cut from the same cloth as the Jihadists are.

Bad Candy on October 28, 2007 at 12:33 AM

We can address the problem without resorting to allying with a bunch of fascist dirtbags who are cut from the same cloth as the Jihadists are.

Bad Candy on

THANKS! I was trying to say that too but got side tracked. You got that Jummy? Excellent point.

Sorry Bad Candy. I thought you were incinuating that it would be evil on our part to recognize the points brought up by radical righties.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:38 AM

We can admit that the radical rightwingers have good issues that need addressed, but I would NOT agree with their prefered tactics in solving them.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:39 AM

We can address the problem without resorting to allying with a bunch of fascist dirtbags who are cut from the same cloth as the Jihadists are.

He is saying we must, or the fascist dirtbags will be the only ones doing it.

I hope you are right that we can address the problem, now, today, in a practical way, that makes a practical influence immediately. Otherwise, the handwriting is on the wall. I think one way to do that is to win in Iraq, Iran etc. so that the ties between the middle-east fanatics and their Euro copy-cats are weakened.

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 12:41 AM

But this whole, “White Christian Nation”, down with the Jews and “N”‘ers, etc. hate crap, That is BS!. I will, and have in the past, rat them out as I come across them.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:41 AM

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:41 AM

nobody believes you.

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 12:45 AM

JiangxiDad I think an even more important front is in our own country, which seems to be falling apart from the inside thanks to our legal system, racists using racism as a cover, and liberals falling for it and supporting them.

Once we can establish once again a proud national image all the while still welcoming immigrants and helping them to adjust instead of allowing them to force us to asjustto them, we can then once again be a model for the world. If we continue the path we are on now, we will end up like Europe, and cars will eventually set on fire evertime a Muslim or other minority is arrested.

But the GWOT is also a very important tool in dismantling radical Islam. There are Muslims “over there” grateful for our service. 99% of the time they suicide bomb us or try to is because Al Qaeda forces them to by holding a father or son’s family hostage…. but that can be a whole-nother topic.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:48 AM

Count me in with the BNP. When the disease is left-wing socialism and political correctness, the antidote is not moderation.

jihadwatcher on October 28, 2007 at 12:48 AM

He’s not holding anyone hostage. He’s telling you your future, and he’s right…

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 12:24 AM

What was that Jummy?

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:49 AM

The BNP, while distasteful, is a legal party running candidates in elections. The two are hardly comparable.

Thomas the Wraith

Well, I suppose that depends on what their ends are, and not the means to get there. Freaky racists taking over by force or freaky racists taking over via a free vote still means freaky racists in power.

Both groups mine the rich vein of bigotry and hatred.

Krydor on October 28, 2007 at 12:50 AM

Careful boys. I see in the headlines that the NYT has declared “illegal” is now a racist word.

And as a code word for racial and ethnic hatred, it is detestable.

Watch what you write or you’ll be forbidden from speaking on campus or running for office. Unless you work for the racist group La Raza, in which case all is forgiven.

This whole racism thing gets slipperier and slipperier.

Thomas the Wraith on October 28, 2007 at 12:51 AM

jihadwatcher Not modernation or centrist pandering as i call it. But conservatism without extremism. I call it enforcing existing laws and judges to wake up and tell the libs that enforcing existing laws is not racism or intolerance. However, for example, Muslims telling a bank in England to remove its logo of a piggy bank because pigs are unclean (it is fake and he can bank elsewhere if he doesnt like it) is a prime example of not bing tolerant to the customs of a country you chose to immigrate to.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:53 AM

Freaky racists taking over by force or freaky racists taking over via a free vote still means freaky racists in power.

Krydor on October 28, 2007 at 12:50 AM

Yes, well I’m of the opinion that the free vote is far, far better than force, in every way. Not that I’m aware of any legal political party in Britain calling for the violent overthrow of the government.

And be careful with that word, “freaky”. The NYT may declare that to be racist at any moment.

Thomas the Wraith on October 28, 2007 at 12:56 AM

jihadwatcher on October 28, 2007 at 12:48 AM

Doesn’t surprise that me you’d support BNP.

Bad Candy on October 28, 2007 at 12:56 AM

Both groups mine the rich vein of bigotry and hatred.

Krydor

My point exactly! Fix the problem before the other radicals get fed up and take matters into their own hands and create an even bigger mess.

Although I want to belive or hope that those veins arent that rich and supported by that many people anymore.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 12:58 AM

Krydor on October 28, 2007 at 12:50 AM

yes, and “tactics” are not the issue. it’s not as if nambla is a moral organization because it hasn’t flown any planes into buildings.

besides, political racialism, radical fantacy nations built on blood or apocalyptic illusions, historisist death cults and blood-worship are each encoded with the tactic of mass extermination, regardless of the number of layers of soft rhetoric they come wrapped in.

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 1:01 AM

historisist death cults and blood-worship are each encoded with the tactic of mass extermination

Maybe this will make sense in the morning.

I’m almost afraid to ask, Jum, but who does the blood worship?

JiangxiDad on October 28, 2007 at 1:03 AM

Oh come on. LGF a pro-Muslim and politically correct news site. That has to be the biggest laugh I’ve seen.

As for Griffin, he is a douche and so are his BNP cohorts.

Ryan Gandy on October 28, 2007 at 1:04 AM

Pretending that someone extremist is elected President worse case scenario, if he/she ordered the military to intervene and use force to shut down free speech (not violent protests or vandalism, liberals!), round up minorities, etc, the military is under obligation NOT to comply with those unlawful ordes. You would have a coupe in the military before you’d have a military coupe to overthrow a gov’t. And then that person would be instantly impeached.

What other country’s military has laws ordering you to not only disobey unlawful and unethical orders, but also to report them? sorry , i think i rambled a bit off topic. perhas not, since it does relate somewhat sicne Hitler was brought up.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 1:04 AM

Wow. I’m glad I was babysitting tonight.

Connie on October 28, 2007 at 1:08 AM

political racialism, radical fantacy nations built on blood or apocalyptic illusions, historisist death cults and blood-worship are each encoded with the tactic of mass extermination, regardless of the number of layers of soft rhetoric they come wrapped in.

jummy

So, how exactly were you disagreeing with me? I agree with that point you just made. But they need to be delt with when they surface, and not allowed to fester and gain strength resulting in either burning cars in France, or God, Allah, Mother Earth (whatever) forbid, other extremists attacking those extremists. That is what I want to prevent.

El Guapo on October 28, 2007 at 1:09 AM

i’m speaking derisively of ethnic pseudo-nations; e.g., the “ummah”, “indo-europeans”, “atzlan”, etc.

jummy on October 28, 2007 at 1:09 AM