that is not what you said originally:

Meanwhile, same sex attraction is dealt with as a sin in Catholicism for the laity,

tizzidale on October 27, 2007

Isn’t it funny how people that read things into a post that they want to believe follow that up with taking a part of the post and taking it out of context?

Read the entire portion of my post (below) regarding Catholic priests who are homosexual and sin by having sex with other men (sometimes other priests), and then add the part how same sex attraction is considered a sin for the laity. Would “same sex attraction including anal sex” make it clearer for you tizzie?

I am not using same sex attraction as in the buzz phrase (as in “I am attracted to my same sex, but am working on not offending God and humiliating myself by letting that passion lead me to sins of the flesh”). I am using it like in the topic of this thread which is men having sex with other men. Men having sex with other men is a sin in most Christian denominations including the Catholic Church. Using the term “same sex attraction” for men ramming man parts into other men seemed to be a less harsh way of describing it.

— Original point
There seems to be a bizarre dogma in the CC that you can’t have a wife, but keep the homosexual activity downplayed. Rape little boys and see the world. It would seem not allowing married men to be ordained attracts some real screwballs that are tolerated.

Meanwhile, same sex attraction is dealt with as a sin in Catholicism for the laity

Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin, but acting upon that attraction is in the Catholic Church.

that is not what you said originally:

Meanwhile, same sex attraction is dealt with as a sin in Catholicism for the laity,

Donohue is a belligerent moron that is fodder for people who try to compare Islamic violence with Catholic dogma. He only hurts his own cause.

I totally disagree! The man is taking a stand against real evil and law breakers! He is also displaying some real courage! The gay defender was flinching! I am not going to be so quick to pick apart every little word of a man that has chosen to actually get into the battle and pay a price. The homosexual movement is dangerous to America and the tactics they use against average Americans is pure Fascist! If more people stepped out and were as willing to take a stand as this man is we would be a lot better off!

Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin, but acting upon that attraction is in the Catholic Church.
Hening on October 27, 2007 at 7:02 AM

Thanks, Hening, for that clarification, and for mentioning that group. The national ministry for this is called Courage (maybe the one in your area is a local of this, or maybe they have another name). Here’s Courage’s site if anyone’s interested (they have a Wiki page too):

http://couragerc.net/

That’s biggest pile of crap I’ve seen on this board in a while. The Church has spoken doctrinely on the issue of homosexuality, and same-sex attraction is not treated as a sin. You have no idea what the Catholic teaching on sin is apparently. . . And this idea that celibacy is a cause of depravity – have you read the news about sexual predators in the nation’s schools . . . if only we let them marry! Geesh. Hot Air pisses me off sometimes.

tizzidale on October 26, 2007 at 4:45 PM

Some people read into posts what they wish to get pissed off about.

While attending a retreat at a Trappist monastery, I ran into a group of priests that are part of a Catholic organization designed to help people with same sex attraction. Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin, but acting upon that attraction is in the Catholic Church.

Nowhere in my post did I say that celibacy is the cause of depravity. My point was that by turning away men that are married or wish to be married and raise a family from the prieshood, you open the door to men that don’t wish to marry since they are homosexual, and have sexual relations while priests. The homosexual porno ring in Maine that was being run by local priests is an example of this culture in the church.

You might want to read over something to make sure you understand it before flying off the handle.

Why do Catholics call themselves “Catholics”? Why do Presbyterians call themselves “Presbyterians”? Protestants love to act all high-and-mighty when it comes to “were all Christians,” but give me a break…since the Reformation you folks have splintered off into about zillion different One True Churches. Hate to break it to you, but it’s true. The simple fact of the matter is we are all Christians (if you accept the Nicene Creed), but some of us think that OUR brand of Christianity is more correct than others. This is all the Pope was saying when he released that document a little while ago about Protestant Churches not being “true” churches that caused such an unecessary uproar…because their understanding of the sacraments was incorrect. He still viewed them as Christians, just not Catholic, and in the Pope’s opinion, not fully part of what Christ instituted on earth.

I don’t understand why Catholics are not also ‘evangelical’. Evangelical means one who preaches the Gospel. Don’t Catholics preach the Gospel from the same Christian Bible? Again, I’m just trying to explain where the ‘anti-Catholic’ crap comes from. Elitism doesn’t go over well with most people, much less Christians.

Christian unity needs to be under CHRIST. Until people recognize CHRIST as the center of the universal Faith, the CHRISTIAN church will not be unified. All Christians will never be Catholic. When you get a Pope who recognizes that, maybe there will be hope in unifying the Christian Church under Christ.

ThackerAgency on October 26, 2007 at 5:54 PM

By my understanding the “Evangelical” tag is given to socially conservative Protestants. Catholics are generally united as a voting block, and take seperate issues more seriously (for instance Abortion is above the War… if you listen to the Pope). Why call the Eastern Church Orthodox if all Christian Churches are Orthodox? Has to do with convenience really.

And the Catholics use a slightly different Bible which includes the Apocrypha!

As for Unity under Christ, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ. He is here in his place, and the Roman Catholic Church was divinely instituted by Christ himself. Installing Peter as the first Pope. So to the Catholic unity in Christ means joining the Church. Another argument to be made is that Catholics only accept Catholic Eucharist (unless it’s Lutheran in extreme circumstances, apparently). Because only they and a few others realize that it is really Jesus in his full body, blood, and divinity in the Eucharist. Can’t very well have much unity in Christ if you aren’t eating him with everyone else.

There’s a lot of doctrinal differences. Say one thing to a Catholic and a Protestant and they’ll agree, find out what they mean and then they’ll disagree. And for the record I went to a Catholic High School but consider myself Methodist.

Buy Danish on October 26, 2007 at 9:06 PM

The love (read: sex) that dare not speak its name has become the love (read: sex) that nobody ever shuts up about, lest they be called a bigot.

When my parents got married, they were both Catholic. When he became a born again Christian, my mother was LIVID. She wanted my brother and I to make our first communion, just because it was “tradition” and she had no idea why it was done. My dad has been questioning the church for a long time, but when I was 3 he finally took the leap. My mother had little respect for my father after that. Took her almost 30 years later before she decided that she did not love him anymore and divorced him. Five months after the divorce was finalized, she marries a Muslim from Jordan.

The rest of the family is no better — a good portion of that side of the family is racist, everyone is in everyone else’s business, etc. They all identify themselves as Catholics.

My dad’s family was Catholic. All of his brothers and sisters (except my uncle Dick) became born again. My grandparents became born again, even though they still attended Catholic church because that was what they knew. They are all very, very good people.

Until 1982, Most Holy Redeemer was a reasonably normal Catholic Parish in San Francisco . But, as Fr. Donald Godfrey, SJ writes in his book Gays and Grays: The Story of the Inclusion of the Gay Community at Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Parish: “Under Father Anthony McGuire–Fr. Tony–the parish was reborn…. Anthony McGuire became the ninth pastor of Most Holy Redeemer parish in 1982.” (p27.) According to Fr. Godfrey’s book, Fr. McGuire was specifically sent by the Archdiocese to Most Holy Redeemer to minister to the gay community.

Fine! What was the result?

That was 25 years ago. And after 25 years of “ministry” to the gay community in the Castro, what do we have? Transvestite bingo (sponsored by the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence), participation in the San Francisco Gay Pride Parade, gay religious services broadcast worldwide, Drag Queen beauty pageants, Young Adult Group outings to the “San Francisco Transgender Cotillion.” The “culture” of the Castro has not been evangelized–instead, Most Holy Redeemer has been turned from a Catholic Parish to a gay parish.

Isn’t it more on topic to ask:

Why is it that people “self-identify” as homosexuals?

Okay, for the last time. I asked why Catholics first identify themselves as “Catholics,” instead of as “Christians”?

It’s like if you ask someone where they live, and they say “Philadelphia” instead of “Pennsylvania”. It’s just a matter of how specific they want to be.

I agree that the point is this festival is CHRISTIAN bashing. My problem with this guy was he considered it to be ‘Catholic bashing’.

ThackerAgency on October 26, 2007 at 7:26 PM

Perhaps because there has been a lot of Catholic bashing going on, such as this.

The Catholic League will get a lot more allies if they begin to champion the cause of CHRISTIANS rather than just Catholics.
ThackerAgency on October 26, 2007 at 7:26 PM

This is a very good point regarding the culture wars, and many Catholic Christians agree with you. The Catholic League sometimes takes your advice in its public statements, but not always, and I think they should. Many Catholic Christian commentators and bloggers make a point of including all Christians (and some include devout Jews and moderate Muslims too) in the culture war topics. Several columnists on Townhall, for example, do this, and one TV commentator (just off the top of my head; I’m sure there are others) who includes all Christians in these topics is Fr. Jonathan Morris, mentioned above, of Fox News.

Where is your proof of this?

PappaMac on October 26, 2007 at 6:05 PM

The Pope actually said that. I don’t expect Catholics to pay attention to the Pope though.

Anyway, I agree that the point is this festival is CHRISTIAN bashing. My problem with this guy was he considered it to be ‘Catholic bashing’. As a Christian I was offended too. The Catholic League will get a lot more allies if they begin to champion the cause of CHRISTIANS rather than just Catholics. They’ll hear a lot more AMEN’s than anything if they begin to refer to themselves as Christians.

I understand that it doesn’t matter. I understand that the problem is the anti-Christian climate in this country. . . no matter how it is characterized (anti-Catholic).

OK, I went out for dinner and came back to find a Catholic vs. Christian bash fest. Do any of you realize that our similarities are greater than our differences? We are fighting a cultural as well as ideological war here in the U.S. (and Europoe). This kind of dissention only divides us, it doesn’t unite us.
Can we all all, Christians of every stripe, agree that the Folsom St. Fest threatens all of us and only serves to weaken us in the face of what is truly threatening us?
After all, this did not start out as a Christian ideological war. Funny how you all decided to morph it into one.

Babs on October 26, 2007 at 6:53 PM

Total ditto!

This is my last post, regarding this matter.

My simple question, alas, is left unanswered.

OhEssYouCowboys on October 26, 2007 at 5:54 PM

It did get answered. I’m sorry that you didn’t like the answer. But here’s another anyway though: For the same reason that Christians use the words “Incarnation” and “Trinity” and the phrase “accept Jesus as your Savior” and all of these are Christian teachings even though NONE of them appears in the text of the Bible.
And while I’m on the subject…

Tizzidale!

Your posts are AWESOME, sir or ma’am. For lack of a bettah word, I *venerate* your apologetics ability.

Lets attack the scum, not those who battle the scum.

Because they are militant gays and they have an agenda that they are attempting to further.

Oh and as far as everyone’s always equating the Church with pedophilia, it’s the homosexual culture that was accepted in years past that was the perpetrator.

Are you arguing that Catholic priests read about the Stonewall riots and, then, decided to start raping children?

I don’t think the scandal takes away from the grandeur of the church, but the abuses predate the gay rights movement and have more to do with the recruits who came into the priesthood seeking celibacy as a way of escaping their sexual desires.