I burned my authentic Persian rugs last night, so now for SURE I’m not a dhimmi.

lol. Thanks for the laugh, Rushbaby:)

That’s not true “escape” or “peace”.

Any form of religious obedience gives a sense of peace. Heck, some people like literal self-flaggulation for mental peace and a sense of closeness to God. If Muslim women wear the veil because they believe that they are doing the will of A*, then certainly obedience to their faith gives them peace of mind. Also, I was noting that there is for some people a peace of mind that they feel by not being objectified. (Reported in UK, not SA).

It still isn’t relevant to the discussion of what the veil symbolizes.
1. We can’t possibly know her opinion.
2. She has no control over how the photo op will be used.
3. She has no control over what the scarf symbolizes.

I already brought the 2nd point in response to AP. No addition comment needed there. And yes, she has no control of what the scarf symbolizes to you. As to it’s relevance: That statement is true insomuch as we are talking about your perspective – the symbolism you have given to it because you appear to connect it culturally without reference to the religious component. And of course we can know her opinion, all she has to do is comment on it and moreover it may very well be asked by the press corp.

What you’re not seeing in my and others’ posts is that so many women do not have that choice. The default is to not have the choice to not wear it. Even the women who say they enjoy wearing it, that it makes them comfortable, many of them have never been given the option of not wearing it.

Why is it that people tend to default to these presumptive statements – ‘you are not seeing’. Of course I understand some women don’t have a choice, I clearly express that in my 7:03 response to PRCalDude. But again, I support freedom of religious expression as a basic human right.

Yes the culture coerces submissive behavior. And yet some women find escape and mental peace by wearing a covering.

Because if they don’t, they’ll be treated like uncovered meat. That’s not true “escape” or “peace”.

Laura’s opinion is very relevant to me. She is the one that made the decision.

Spirit of 1776 on October 25, 2007 at 7:03 PM

It still isn’t relavant to the discussion of what the veil symbolizes.

1. We can’t possibly know her opinion.
2. She has no control over how the photo op will be used.
3. She has no control over what the scarf symbolizes.

Those women who are beaten for not wearing one might have deluded themselves into believing something positive about the scarf, but their opinion, just like Laura’s here, does nothing to change what the scarf is, a form of oppression.

I do not stereotype the wearing of that (or any covering) because to do so I have to prejudice religious expression.

What you’re not seeing in my and others’ posts is that so many women do not have that choice. The default is to not have the choice to not wear it. Even the women who say they enjoy wearing it, that it makes them comfortable, many of them have never been given the option of not wearing it.

Next time, use a /sarc tag.

Splashman on October 26, 2007 at 3:02 AM

Good advice – sarc tags will prevent us from being mocked by those meanies over at HuffPo.

What would they do if we weren’t an ally? Not sell oil to us? Would they just dance around their oil and sing songs and rely on their exports of dates and goat’s milk?
PRCalDude on October 25, 2007 at 6:02 PM

Heh, that’s a good one. Almost had me going for a second there. Then I realized you couldn’t possibly be that dense.

Next time, use a /sarc tag.

In a culture that misogynistic, there’s simply no way to divorce the veil from its oppressive element.

Why is the word “veil” being used to describe a headscarf? Her hair isn’t even completely covered (emitting evil rays that apparently can bewitch Muslim men) much less her face. When I was a kid, my Catholic friends told me that was normal dress for a woman in a church (we didn’t have such rules) but I understand things are a bit looser now.

I’m consistent on this; I didn’t see it as a big deal when Pelosi wore a scarf either. I was more concerned that she was trying to run her own foreign policy out of the Legislative Branch, which was arguably a violation of US law.

Did I just say that? What are those helocopters doing over my house?

Boy, you guys really go in the tank for this sort of thing when there’s no (D) after the person’s name, huh?

Allahpundit on October 25, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Too many comments to read them all, sorry.

I for one am steammed. This would be like giving a collar to an Ambassador from an African Nation back in 1860.

which left her little choice but to wear it out of simple politeness (break) Any of that make you feel better?

No. It isn’t as if she were offered goat to eat or something like that. This is a symbol of oppression and servitude.

In the 1970s if Nixon Visited South Africa, would black Secret Service be required to stay on the plane?!!

- The Cat

There’s never been a time that I didn’t think Bush was an idiot. I’ve never liked the guy, although I don’t have BDS, but I’ve always liked Laura. She always seemed like a very classy lady to me, but not anymore. I think that this picture and the pictures from the other day are destined to appear in our history books representative of the confusion America experienced in the early years of this war and how our own leadership failed us in our time of need.

Why put into functional use any religious symbols of any foreign state?

Just say “Thanks, awfully!” for the scarf, and pass it to a bodyguard to secure, and move on with the tour.

They have no respect for her or her faith.

Return the exact same level of favor.

Christian/Jewish women traveling to Saudi Arabia have to cover their heads; on the other hand, Muslim women traveling to America don’t get to take off their burkas.

Christians/Jews traveling to Saudia Arabia can’t take Bibles or build churches/synagogues; Muslims traveling to America let us touch their Korans only if we wear gloves, and they get to build mosques.

Sounds like a fair compromise all around.

And since you said so, I’m going to take off this stupid, medieval rag right now.” She yanked off her chador.

I think I’m in love.

the scarf is similar to a yarmulka – protection from the burning eye of god or whatever.

The nutrootsiest blog o’ them all, linking to an old Hot Air post, wonders if the right will have the same problem with Laura Bush’s hijab as Nancy Pelosi’s.

fair ball, i think.

They ambushed her with the “gift” of an abaya, which, for reasons unknown to us, she felt obligated to wear. I doubt that the choice of the “gift” was the decision of the women giving it.
Mrs. Bush donning that symbol of female oppression and being photographed wearing it gave the Saudi press a big propaganda victory. It also sent the message to Saudi women that far from ever escaping their portable prisons, the Western women they look to to assist them in their emancipation will willingly submit to the oppressors.

The whole photo-op was masterfully engineered by the Saudi government to further the aim of spreading fundamentalist Islam and eventually making sharia the law around the globe.