Was there something in my comments that makes you think I’m gay, if so what? Or are you just being a jerk.

tommylotto on October 24, 2007 at 3:48 PM

Nope. Figured since you were going to ask me a totally absurd and unrelated question intended to associate me with a negative sterotype … I might as well return the favor.

So is this how it’s done? Ridicule all those against Rudy by labeling them “Truthers?” Where have we seen this method before?

No. Are you gay?

Gregor on October 24, 2007 at 12:33 PM

Nice…

Truthers tend to question Rudy’s role on 9/11, as you did. That was why I asked — it was related to the substance of your comments. Was there something in my comments that makes you think I’m gay, if so what? Or are you just being a jerk.

New Yorkers were sick of him and didn’t seem to see all those successes that you claim.

I didn’t make a case for Rudy’s successes as mayor, though one could. On 9/10 most New Yorkers saw him as a successful mayor but complicated man and had mostly grown tired of his confrontational manner and nasty divorce.

My point isn’t that you should vote for Rudy–decide that on the issues. Being mayor of NYC on 9/11 doesn’t immediately qualify you for the White House.

However, you underestimate the importance of inspiration to leadership. As much as anything Churchill’s words got Londoners through the bombings and even 60+ years later still resonate. Rhetorically Churchill was among the best who ever lived to lead. I wouldn’t put Rudy on that level but on 9/11 he did find a way to eloquently balance pain, loss, compassion and strength.

repeating is that he “held the city together.”

Hold a city together that is larger than many small countries is doing something in anyones book who has a desire to be intellectually honest. You are not interested in intellectual honesty.

I bet that if Rudy stood up and gave a speech in favor of terrorists, you scream to the heavens that he “did something”, when all he really did was give a motivational speech.

Gregor, I’d stay away from the whole “what did he do” argument. Rudy’s list of life accomplishments is far more impressive than any of the other candidates. Fred is a joke. He’s an old man and has not accomplished anything but CFR, voting for Clinton on impeachment, letting Clinton off on campaign finance crimes, lining his pocket lobbying for dictators, abortion groups and terrorists, and bad acting. Fred has accomplished nothing. Rudy defeated the mafia, saved the city from crime, run away spending, high taxes, a welfare crisis, and a liberal run socialist state generally.

tommylotto on October 24, 2007 at 12:15 PM

That’s not what history says, unless you’re listening to Rudy’s version of it. As dedalus admitted above …

We were fed up with him on 9/10/2001.

dedalus on October 24, 2007 at 9:37 AM

New Yorkers were sick of him and didn’t seem to see all those successes that you claim.

Are you a truther???

No. Are you gay?

We were fed up with him on 9/10/2001. But for a few days after an unimaginable attack the guy provided leadership to millions of people who were devastated. I don’t know if I want him as president, but I’m really glad he was our mayor on 9/11.

dedalus on October 24, 2007 at 9:37 AM

So, let’s elect a man who will do a really crappy job as President, won’t protect us, will fight for liberal causes, drive us crazy, and then AFTER we get attacked again and the world is falling apart, we can all feel comfortable knowing that our President has the ability to make us FEEL good with real fine speeches.

Wonderful.

You think that because you can sit there behind your computer playing Monday morning quarterback that what Rudy did was nothing?

csdeven on October 24, 2007 at 3:09 AM

Um … I keep asking you to point out WHAT HE DID and you can’t do it. All you keep repeating is that he “held the city together.”

HE DID NOTHING but GIVE SPEECHES! That’s it!

If that qualifies him for U.S. President, than 2/3rds of the population is qualified for the Presidency.

Rudy was in charge of NYC. He put the people in place to effect the recovery.

csdeven on October 24, 2007 at 3:18 AM

Did he? Is that why there’s still a giant hole in the ground at ground zero and why NY City voted overwhelmingly for John Kerry AFTER being the target for the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history?

Fine job he did of that.

You’re going to elect a liberal to be President based on nothing more than motivating speeches.

dedalus on October 24, 2007 at 9:37 AM

That sounds like the fairest assessment I read.

He went from block to block, stood in front of a camera, and TALKED! No government actions. No government crackdowns. No major arrests. And no attacks thwarted.

I lived in NYC through the Rudy years and am not sold on him. He’s a really sharp guy, with no national experience, and significant personality flaws. I’m also turned off at the way he’s co-opted 9/11 as part of the “Rudy” brand.

That said, you underestimate what talking can achieve. Having your country attacked is one thing. Having your city attacked and your friends killed or missing throws your everyday existence and faith in the future into turmoil. Rudy did more than talk, he found the right words and he was able to bravely convey his pain and serve as a focal point for a city of people who didn’t know if life in Manhattan would ever be the same.

He’s a liberal guy who’s views are out of line with social conservatives. If you don’t like him, don’t vote for him. We were fed up with him on 9/10/2001. But for a few days after an unimaginable attack the guy provided leadership to millions of people who were devastated. I don’t know if I want him as president, but I’m really glad he was our mayor on 9/11.

First off The Party is not here to serve them or any of you, we are all here to serve The Party.

AprilOrit on October 24, 2007 at 12:16 AM

WOW! I can’t believe someone actually said that. I knew the Republican party was headed left, but I didn’t realize they had already become Socialists. WOW!

One thing I will give the Democrats credit for, they serve their Party, or they seem to.

AprilOrit on October 24, 2007 at 1:04 AM

Might it be because they are Socialists?

My brother-in-law, a Democrat, told me in 2000 that he was going to vote for GW because Gore would take his guns.

I think illegal immigration is just such an issue. If the Republicans play it correctly it will be a winner for them. And not just in the Presidential selection. It could also prevent Democrat gains in congress. I think at least some of the Democrats know this. Look at McCaskill in MO.

jaime on October 23, 2007 at 8:26 PM

I agree, which is one of the big reasons I won’t vote for Rudy.

Rudy was the right man, in the right place, at the right time and we, and especially the people of NYC are blessed to have had in charge on that day.

Gregor on October 24, 2007 at 2:33 AM

You refuse to give the guy credit for his extraordinary accomplishments. You think that because you can sit there behind your computer playing Monday morning quarterback that what Rudy did was nothing? You obviously have no clue the awesome responsibility resting on his shoulders during that time in history. Rudy was up to the challenge. The challenge of not acting like Nagin. Did Nagin hurt or help the issue of city preparedness? (As an example of what NOT to do, he has helped) But he would have been credit for being a great leader in the face of a terrible event had he saved the people of his city and led them to recovery.

You apparently think that unless you are killing a terrorist that you are not part of the process of fighting terrorism. Tell that to the people who grew victory gardens and bought war bonds etc during WWII.

There are many ways to fight the war against islamo-fascism and Rudy did everything that could be expected from ANYONE in his position. And for you to refuse to acknowledge that because of partisan politics is exactly what is wrong with political discourse in this country and you can’t build any credibility when you engage in such.

Showing the country how to deal with such a horrific event IS fighting terrorism.

csdeven on October 24, 2007 at 2:17 AM

LOL! You’re not grasping it. He “walked around and talked tough.” THAT’S IT! That’s the extent of his actions!

HE DID NOTHING!

There’s no credit to give. There’s nothing to credit.

Zero. Nada. Zilch.

He went from block to block, stood in front of a camera, and TALKED! No government actions. No government crackdowns. No major arrests. And no attacks thwarted.

You’re making him to be the God of fighting terror because he gave a few rah-rah speeches. He’s a fraud.

what does Giuliani waltzing around ground zero talking tough have to do with fighting terror? I ask again …

what has he actually DONE to fight terror? He’s done absolutely ZERO!

Gregor on October 24, 2007 at 1:51 AM

Everyone has seen the IAFF’s video criticizing Rudy. They have always been partisan, and without the context of Rudy’s side of the story, it can’t really stand on it’s own.

Rudy did not cave to PCness, he didn’t lock up and panic, etc. Showing the country how to deal with such a horrific event IS fighting terrorism. It was a resolve not to allow them to cower us. Rudy did all that a mayor could do. He couldn’t pick up a gun because he had a responsibility to his city. He fulfilled that responsibility. You can attempt to minimize it all you want, but there really wasn’t much more one man could do. We all know how Nagin dealt with it. He blamed everyone else and did nothing to prepare his people nor did he follow the plan that was decided upon in just such an emergency. Nagin TOTALLY failed and Rudy could have done so also. He did not. I know you can’t stand it and perhaps you should rethink your politics. Hoping that Rudy would have failed in a misguided attempt to make your candidate look better isn’t credible in the least. If you want credibility you MUST give credit where credit is due.

Homey the Clown from Chocolate Town

csdeven on October 24, 2007 at 1:30 AM

LOL. Good. I hadn’t heard that one before. That sharp CSDeven wit.

Compare how Rudy dealt with 9/11 verses the way “Homey the Clown from Chocolate Town” handled Katrina.

csdeven on October 24, 2007 at 1:30 AM

Okay, let’s do that.

And while we’re at it …

what does Giuliani waltzing around ground zero talking tough have to do with fighting terror? I ask again …

what has he actually DONE to fight terror? He’s done absolutely ZERO!

Why’d he go on Alex Jones’ show if he’s trying to gain mass appeal? I mean, it’s not the thing to do if you’re trying to avoid guilt by association.

Support is support. Why do other Republicans hang out with bigots like Falwell? As Dr. Paul said, if politicians only appears on shows that 100% espoused their views, they’d get no airtime!

Something other than “talk.”

Gregor on October 24, 2007 at 12:27 AM

Compare how Rudy dealt with 9/11 verses the way “Homey the Clown from Chocolate Town” handled Katrina.

THAT is how Rudy could have reacted. He did not. He lead his city and arguable was an example to this country how to buck up and put a shoulder to the wheel and recover from the worst terrorist attack in this country’s history.

And that is just for starters.

One thing I will give the Democrats credit for, they serve their Party, or they seem to.

AprilOrit on October 24, 2007 at 1:04 AM

Hey April! I hear Chavez is looking for you, lol. He wants some tips on how to convince the people to serve him, rather than him having to serve the people.

Do you want the Republican Party to win another election?
Or do you consider being a jerk to your allies until the muslims kill us all a good option?

thuja on October 23, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Doesn’t Bush have a bunch of Islamists over for Eid dinner every year? Both parties are sleeping with the devil there.