Open thread: GOP debate, gloves off edition!
posted at 7:08 pm on October 21, 2007 by Allahpundit
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8 p.m. ET on the Foxiest network in cable news. Desperate to drum up interest in another soundbite-go-round with a lackluster field in the midst of this interminable campaign, Chris Wallace took to hinting on Friday that this may be the debate where the bombs finally start to drop. He might be right: the “real Republican” brouhaha that began with Mitt and Rudy soon spilled over to McCain and then to Fred, so we’ll be seeing more skirmishes on that front tonight, I’m sure. Or rather, you’ll be seeing them: the big A’s priorities this evening lie elsewhere, but if you’re watching the debate and you see something clipworthy, I’d be grateful if you tipped us to it.
A few pre-game notes. First, remember how Rudy told the social cons that it’s better to be honest than pander by changing your positions? Well, forget it. Second, guess which candidate’s campaign will be liveblogging the debate tonight in Spanish. McCain’s, you say? Guess again. Third, Ron Paul’s quest to unite the dregs of American politics under one banner has taken an exciting new turn. Will Wallace or Brit Hume dare to ask him how and why he became the campaign’s resident freak magnet? All signs point to no. Finally, take heart in the fact that no matter how bad it gets, no matter how feebly the candidates perform, hope in this case does and will continue to spring eternal.
Sound off below if you’re tuned in. Or if you’re watching the game. Which is more important, really?
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Oh absolutely. But I wouldn’t mind a bit of Old-time pulpit-pounding passion from Fred either.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:58 PM
So funny, you saying this…
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 9:58 PM
Ron Paul – 39%
LOL
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM
Sounds like way too much government to me.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM
SHOCKA! Paul-nuts spamming the FoxNews IM “poll”, and Colmes can’t contain himself.
steveegg on October 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM
HOW THE CRAP DID RON PAUL WIN THE FNC POLL???
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM
Oh God. the Paulites are already spiking the poll. UGH.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM
Skelator thinks Ron Paul won.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:59 PM
They REALLY have to stop the text/online polling for these things. The Paul Patrol is gonna ruin it every time. It’s pathetic.
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 10:00 PM
That’s just not his style. I take ‘em as they come.
Hey look! Paul once again won the phone poll, but none of the focus group is buying it. Colmes did, though. No surprise there.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:00 PM
The way they win every not-exactly-secure poll – SPAM!
steveegg on October 21, 2007 at 10:00 PM
why are they wasting their time and money on these polls that Paulites continuously hack
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 10:00 PM
That is just not his way, I personally prefer substance to style. Of course I think Fred’d style is fine myself.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:01 PM
Honestly…only because I know a few of the Paulnuts…they mass email each other, meet up online, whatever…and tell everyone they know to be ready to vote for PAul…whether or not they even watched the debate.
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 10:01 PM
John McCain won again with Rudy Guiliani coming in a good second. It is time for all to look again at John McCain. He is the most knowledgeable on national security and military matters. A McCain-Guiliani ticket beats Hillary and whomever her running mate is.
Phil Byler on October 21, 2007 at 10:01 PM
Yeah, I got a giggle out of that too. Hang in there, BK!
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:02 PM
Paulbots, screwing up the voting again.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:02 PM
hey only call it the spin room because Skelator is in there.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:02 PM
Rudy will get the Republican nomination because it will go down to who can beat Clinton.
Huck has no chance of winning the general election, so there is no point in nominating him.
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 10:02 PM
Exactly! And that BK is why Mitt is full of it. This is a big government answer to a problem that is not really a problem except in the eyes of Libs and the MSM. Not the guy I want for Commander and Chief.
The real answer to the problem of afforable health care is to remove all government influince and tort reform. That is the only answer to the question I want!
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 10:03 PM
Steveegg -
Ron Paul supporters may as well join up with the MoveOn/Media Matters nutjobs. How incredibly, unbelievably dishonest.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 10:03 PM
That’s beside the point, he’s parading this reform around as his great accomplishment, he’s asking for it to be criticized. And if, as president, he’s going to buckle down to congress and force an individual mandage on me, a 19 year old college student to purchase health insurance then I don’t want him as my president.
And what part of the bill did Romney support? The part that subsidises insurance companies?
The Mass. Universal Health Care plan is not something a CONSERVATIVE should be boasting about. If indeed we are for more open markets and individual freedom and choice. While not being so bat shit insane like Ron Paul.
Keljeck on October 21, 2007 at 10:03 PM
I dont agree at all with Huck as a strong debate. He spoke in nothing but platitudes. I didnt hear one step, one plan that he would bring to deal with any issues. Sorry thats a democrat strategy to hit the points with no backing. (no Im not calling him a dem, even though he does strike me as a nanny stater) which is why I think he does speak in platitudes, If we really knew how he would deal with the problems he proposes we would be very dissapointed
CaptainObvious on October 21, 2007 at 10:04 PM
Because conservnut, health insurance is not a problem that can be 100% solved by GO FREE MARKET, OUR PERSONAL SAVIOR! There still needs to be some kind of coverage for the poor and those on small wages, which will generally be in the form of medicare and medicaid. If you keep those entitlements solely to the working poor and have a market driven system for the middle class and high-income, you can get everyone insured at a reasonable rate.
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 10:04 PM
You’d think but it won’t happen. He’s great on spending and defense (the one exception being Gitmo but personally, I am not going to argue that point with him).
Amnesty, campaign spending and his desire to be the maverick and court the press has just alienated the base.
I would love to vote for the guy but unless it comes down to him and Hillary! I won’t do it.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 10:05 PM
Sorry Phil, gotta respectfully disagree with you. He’s a fine man and a hero, but I couldn’t vote for him unless he was the last choice possible.
He’s on now supporting fixing immigration and saying he got the message, but I just don’t believe it. I’m not forgetting what he said at the time. He dissed us all.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:05 PM
Something tells me they’re already travelling in the same circles.
steveegg on October 21, 2007 at 10:06 PM
And the Paul Patrol really does not believe what they’re doing is dishonest. Any one of ‘em I ask about this stuff, they come back with the “one vote per person” thing, and they really believe Paul will win.
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 10:06 PM
McCain said he got the message, but I wouldn’t trust him to follow through. I would only vote for him if he’s the Republican nominee.
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 10:07 PM
He SAYS that but his record says differently, as does Rudy’s record on illehals, and gun rights. I agree, I would vote for them IFthey were the nominee but I prefer someone with a solid record, not a change of mind.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:09 PM
I actually saw a “Ron Paul for President” bumper sticker on the back of a car the other day. They are so glad I do not have my jeep with the big push bar on the front any longer.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:10 PM
3-2 Sox in the 5th
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:11 PM
That and “the gang of 14″ and McCain-Feingold
Sorry McCain has 3 strikes against him
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 10:12 PM
Agreed.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:12 PM
Agreed.
But his joke and the standing O were awesome.
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 10:13 PM
Come on Sox – don’t blow it.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:13 PM
Huckabee is nuts if he thinks being Governor of Arkansas is more impressive experience than being Mayor of NY. You can have your issues with Rudy (I do) but please, we don’t need another Arkansas governor as President.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 10:13 PM
Yep the Sox offense really needs to score some runs, to provide Dice K some “wiggle room”.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 10:15 PM
Why is it I think Huckabee is a tad bit of a “nanny-stater”? He just gives me that impression
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:15 PM
Here we go – Ron Paul up next. There are going to be some boo’s in the back ground.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Is Huckabee from Hope as well?
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Colmes is seriously carrying the water for witch tonight.
“Aw, don’t pick on Hillary!”
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Ron Paul is next on H&C, I can hardly wait
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Ron Paul supporters have a penchant for dishonesty. I don’t even understand why Fox News does these Text polls anymore. They know the Ronbots are going to vote feverishly without any consideration of what happened at the debate. Just leave it to the Luntz’s focus group to decide who won.
Complete7 on October 21, 2007 at 10:17 PM
Come on, he is NOT a Clinton. Clinton won because Perot ran.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:18 PM
Get ready. Paul’s coming up next on H&C. Insanities galore!
Huck did pretty good on the hillary stuff. Gotta make some phone calls tomorrow about that ‘treaty of the seas’ thing. BAD idea, that.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:18 PM
Ron Paul, like that cranky uncle you HAVE to see on holidays.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:22 PM
LOL – America is agreeing with HIM?
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:22 PM
And yet that FREE MARKET SYSTEM worked great for decades without your BIG GOVERNMENT SYSTEM to mandate the rules. It was not until government got involved that the system turned to crap. The way you talk you should really support Hillary for Prez.
You do not speak as a conservative my friend. WAKE THE HELL UP and quit trying to sell Mitt to us while ignoring the fact that he is just another version of Bush Light.
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 10:22 PM
Dream on Paul, in an election you would finish 8th
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:23 PM
The problem with that is it won’t stay flat unless AMENDED legislation changes the Income tax to say it will be a flat rate across the board, and not have the progressive brackets it now has. Otherwise, lobbyists and legislators will toy with the code to start raising additional revenue for their pet projects and buy votes.
eanax on October 21, 2007 at 10:23 PM
War mongering President.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:24 PM
Well said
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:24 PM
Paul thinks the voting is legit. Insane.
We’re winning this war. And there’s a still a LONG way to go. Islamofascists are at war with us, whether we want them to be or not. Accept it. You can’t hide and survive.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:24 PM
Ron Paul = just as dishonest as his followers.
He knows damn well his followers are skewing these votes.
Imagine the voter fraud these loons will try to commit next Fall. Dear God.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 10:25 PM
I think most of the candidates did well. The top runners (Mitt, Rudy, John,) got asked the easy questions and the bottom tiers got asked the hard questions. I noticed no one was asked anything about illegal immigration, the number one topic of voters in America. I did notice that Tom Tancredo tried to bring it up on the topic of illegals receiving social security but it was quickly shot down.
The reason our social security will be bankrupt in a matter of months is that we are giving benefits to illegals. The public doesn’t know this and the government doesn’t want them to know this. This is part of the Equalization Treaty with Mexico that Bush signed that gives all Mexican nationals working in the US a part of our Social Security System.
Neocon Peg on October 21, 2007 at 10:25 PM
In a six person election
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:25 PM
You nailed it. We did not start this war. BUT we damned well better be prepared to finish it.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:26 PM
Paul’s ranking on the poll I’ll happily throw out. But what about Huckabee’s current 2nd place with 23%?
Skywise on October 21, 2007 at 10:26 PM
I wouldn’t have minded hearing more on immigration.
On the other hand, at least social security is being discussed again.
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 10:27 PM
He might be the one that shocks us all.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 10:27 PM
Huck has no shot in the general election.
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 10:28 PM
Oh no, not a “focus-group” What a waste of time
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:28 PM
Ron Paul is going 3rd party in the general
Now who will he pull votes from?
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 10:29 PM
But how, conservnut, do you get people who are not insured, car insurance?
BTW, health care will never be a fully free market, because there is already a federal law that says a patient going into an emergency room MUST be treated. That is a great, moral law, but a law nonetheless. Which means we have to have a way to counter balance that by making sure as many people as are able will be able to pay by themselves for the care through private insurance.
sweetlipsbutterhoney on October 21, 2007 at 10:31 PM
There was a lot of support in the earlier focus group segment for Huck. I think it was more his direct attack on cankles. At the beginning that group was looking for a fighter. Can’t say I blame them.
I’m sick and tired of the GOP rolling over. I want them to stand up and ram the dem lies right back down their throats and then do an end-zone dance to let us know about it. Just like Rush did this past week.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:31 PM
He won’t pull many from anybody.
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 10:31 PM
Ron Paul likes to pretend the poll results are accurate and not a result of his 12 supporters calling over and over again (probably at Paul’s expense). And the ONLY one who had the b@lls to comment on it was Hannity. Skelator acted like the poll is accurate and no big surprise. Disgusting. American politics has become a case of “who can lie the best.”
speed911 on October 21, 2007 at 10:31 PM
Hannity just interviewed Paul, he must be living in a dream world.
SIJ6141 on October 21, 2007 at 10:31 PM
I mean A$#@ Colmes.
SIJ6141 on October 21, 2007 at 10:32 PM
Ever been to San Francisco?
eanax on October 21, 2007 at 10:32 PM
With Huck coming in FIRST, I will repeat what I said at the beginning of this thread. Who wants to bet the dimocraps will try and convince the conservatives they are “Christian” and deserve the family value votes? Dimocraps are to family values as Murtha is to a Marine, a truther is to the truth, as Pelosi is “for the children”, as public schools are to education, as Reid is to Timothy, as Gerald-who is to journalism…… a joke.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:33 PM
So Sweetlips, (love your handle, by the way) the answer to too much government is more government?
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM
Oh really, the free market system worked so well decades ago? Was that in the 1920’s? 1930’s? 1940’s? which decades are you talking about where the free market system worked so well for making sure people were insured?
Don’t you ever question my conservatism conservnut. Mitt Romney is the ONLY one on that stage who hasn’t just TALKED about health care. Conservnut and his merry band of angry keyboarders can only complain about what they don’t want. No one else has any ideas at all. Any idiot what calls himself conservative can go on an angry rant.
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM
He said he’d sign a national smoking ban for one thing. The Club for Growth is not a big fan. Mostly because he raised taxes and spending (65% in 8 years)
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 10:35 PM
Here’s why I’m not voting for Huckabee. Not only is he a liar about being strong on the border, he is a hypocrite. He is no Christian, in my opinion: From MB4 at Hotair.com
Neocon Peg on October 21, 2007 at 10:35 PM
Score anybody?
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:37 PM
3-2 still
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:38 PM
3-2 Boston mid 6th
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 10:38 PM
3-2 Boston in the sixth
RW_theoriginal on October 21, 2007 at 10:39 PM
uh actually Rudy has a very good plan and has talked about it in length just not at the debates, its pretty detailed and most would not understand it in a one minute answer. I say that as someone that is in Hunters corner till the end.
CaptainObvious on October 21, 2007 at 10:39 PM
Thanks
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:39 PM
I liked Rudy and Mitt–and thought they both did well. I thought Huckabee made some good points but did not win. so did McCain. I’m going to have a hard time with the NH primary. Fred sounded honest and sincere but not presidential.
jeanie on October 21, 2007 at 10:40 PM
Mitt is still the only one who has tried to implement one. Even so, you can bet conservnut is going to go RUDY IS A RINO! HIS PLAN IS THE SAME AS HILLARY’S!
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 10:40 PM
There’s a lot to like about Hunter.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 10:40 PM
Or possibly 28-14 Denver in the 4th quarter depending on what the question really was.
RW_theoriginal on October 21, 2007 at 10:41 PM
Implementing government health care is not a Conservative act IMO.
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:43 PM
On-my-soap-box
Click on the gamecast link to see the play by plays if you like.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 10:43 PM
Denver winning also works for me.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 10:45 PM
The rant is yours. The point here is that government is not the answer, it is the problem. The fact is that after the depresson era that you point to, during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s our health care system was the envy of the world, without government influence. And the system acually grew and developed new innovations without government influence.
The fact is that if we address Immigration, tort reform and removing government regulation our system will self correct
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 10:45 PM
Yes. That’s Brooklyn-ese for Commie.
Best Lines of the Night:
1. McCain: I was tied up. — No contest.
2. Rudy: I care more about the kids. – Red Meat
3. McCain: When I look into Putin’s eyes I see three letters: K – G – B. — Reality
4. Rudy: Hillary, American can’t afford YOU. – Challenge
5. Fred: If you can do all that and be lazy, then I recommend it. – Cute, and avoided the question.
Winners tonight: just about everyone did well… except
Losers tonight: Third tier, Paul, Tanc, Dunc. All one trick ponies — no govt, immigration, trade. Time to send all three to the showers.
Let Rudy, John, Mitt, Fred and Huck fight it out.
Always Right on October 21, 2007 at 10:46 PM
Gatordoug,
I agree. It’s still government health care, either way you look at it.
Neocon Peg on October 21, 2007 at 10:46 PM
Huh? I can think of TWO presidential elections within the past 30 years that were about economics — 1980 and 1992.
eanax on October 21, 2007 at 10:46 PM
28-21 Denver now go Steelers!
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:46 PM
Thanks F15
Done
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 10:48 PM
Always Right on October 21, 2007 at 10:46 PM
I thought it was a great response to an inane criticism
Gatordoug on October 21, 2007 at 10:49 PM
If people dont vote for a president for economy issues maybe they should. the US economy is what has made this country what it is. NOT feelgood platitudes and social issues. that is what states are for. that thing we used to stand for federalism, heard of it?
CaptainObvious on October 21, 2007 at 10:52 PM
I would stream the game to you live however I don’t have the upload bandwidth needed to do that from my house.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 10:53 PM
Feder-wha?
Keljeck on October 21, 2007 at 10:53 PM
OK, so who has a link to video of the debate, I missed it due to being more worried about the wildfire that is roaring down on me.
doriangrey on October 21, 2007 at 10:53 PM
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