Open thread: GOP debate, gloves off edition!
posted at 7:08 pm on October 21, 2007 by Allahpundit
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8 p.m. ET on the Foxiest network in cable news. Desperate to drum up interest in another soundbite-go-round with a lackluster field in the midst of this interminable campaign, Chris Wallace took to hinting on Friday that this may be the debate where the bombs finally start to drop. He might be right: the “real Republican” brouhaha that began with Mitt and Rudy soon spilled over to McCain and then to Fred, so we’ll be seeing more skirmishes on that front tonight, I’m sure. Or rather, you’ll be seeing them: the big A’s priorities this evening lie elsewhere, but if you’re watching the debate and you see something clipworthy, I’d be grateful if you tipped us to it.
A few pre-game notes. First, remember how Rudy told the social cons that it’s better to be honest than pander by changing your positions? Well, forget it. Second, guess which candidate’s campaign will be liveblogging the debate tonight in Spanish. McCain’s, you say? Guess again. Third, Ron Paul’s quest to unite the dregs of American politics under one banner has taken an exciting new turn. Will Wallace or Brit Hume dare to ask him how and why he became the campaign’s resident freak magnet? All signs point to no. Finally, take heart in the fact that no matter how bad it gets, no matter how feebly the candidates perform, hope in this case does and will continue to spring eternal.
Sound off below if you’re tuned in. Or if you’re watching the game. Which is more important, really?
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BK, what do you do the other 13 hours of every day you’re not bashing Fred!?
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 9:04 PM
Peoople don’t vote for a president over economics. Get off the topic
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 9:04 PM
Hume’s strong tonight.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:05 PM
Yeah, it does detract from his “stage presence” a bit. But at least he bothers to make notes. I’ve noticed too that his answers seem very UNrehearsed. It seems to me that he is just speaking right off the top of his head, rather than just spouting one-liners. I suppose that’s why he’s referring back to his notes, to prevent losing his train of thought. I’d probably do the same thing in his position. I kinda like that. It just seems more “real”.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:05 PM
Maybe he was checking to make sure his fly was closed. :)
FloatingRock on October 21, 2007 at 9:05 PM
Private SS accounts are what’s needed.
roninacreage on October 21, 2007 at 9:05 PM
Oh C’mon huck. Let’s not argue semantics now. Wait until AFTER the election and let the spinmeisters handle that.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:06 PM
Mitt’s doin’ good.
The man knows economics like the back of his hand. That’s something no other candidate can boast. He’s also avoiding the trap of “All Demos are evil!”
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:06 PM
Everyone takes notes. That bit where Fred was repeatedly looking, he was reading of a pre-written script. Which is fine, but it is what it is.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:06 PM
That’s what BK & CS do. I think its an official role of Fred bashing around the internet. Not sure who pays them however.
sunny on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Agreed. The notes don’t bother me at all. I’d definitely need them, and in fact I have to have them whenever I give seminars.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
I think Rudy’s doing well, Fred!’s doing well and McCain is getting some good ones in. Don’t know who will win yet though.
The others have some good answers, but by virtue of their place in the primaries, have no shot (a lot of that has to do with the fact they aren’t getting much time.
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Romney keeps citing Reagan- I wish Fred or someone else would bring up his quote where he distanced himself from Reagan and said he was an independant at the time. Same ol’ pandering Mitt.
Hollowpoint on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Exactly.
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Ron is like a broken clock…..
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Maybe but stage presence counts. I think part of the problem is that he’s relatively new at this. These other guys have been answering these questions for a year now. They’ve gone through trial and error and for the most part have honed their answers to understandable bites they are comfortable with.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Here comes the Straight-Talk Express again…
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 9:08 PM
I don’t care for Ron Paul, but he’s right – I’m 25 years old and might not have ANY Social Security when I retire.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:08 PM
Good point. I’d imagine that he’ll ease up on the notes use as the campaign goes along.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:09 PM
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:08 PM
Yeah, he should talk more about economics, less war.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:09 PM
Buddy, I’m 37 and I KNOW I won’t have any SS when I retire, particularly if the Dems get to run it.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:10 PM
I’m still liking Rudy..although have not made decision yet….well strike that definatly not Paul. We need to stay in Iraq and have a complete victory.
GREENTURTLE on October 21, 2007 at 9:10 PM
Duncan Hunter singing the siren song of protectionism. Oy.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 9:10 PM
A full time job and some part time on the weekends doing work that requires honesty and integrity, something Fred has never had to deal with, seeing as he’ll lobby for anyone and call it “private enterprise” if his clients might hurt his political campaign.
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:10 PM
@ Spirit –
If Ron Paul uses the phrase “illegal war” one more time in any public forum, I’ll lose my damn mind.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:11 PM
Ditto. I’m 35 and planning for retirement with the assumption it won’t be there.
Slublog on October 21, 2007 at 9:11 PM
I getting hungry I wish WHATABURGER delivered. :)
GREENTURTLE on October 21, 2007 at 9:11 PM
I have known it for a while and its hard to accept but Rudy knows how to run a business. To me thats all the government is a huge business. If only his social issues and IMMIGRATION didnt scare me on him. actually I could accept his social issues but he is a Bush III on Immigration there is no denying it.
CaptainObvious on October 21, 2007 at 9:11 PM
I’m 51 and I have absolutely no expectation that I will receive any of the lifetime’s worth of Social Security I’ve put into the system. I wish all that money had been put into an index fund. There’d be a good chunk of change at retirement from that investment. As it is, I’ll get nothing.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:11 PM
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:11 PM
It’s the d*mn empire line that pisses me off. I don’t like Fred’s hyperbole about more Americans died, etc. But we sure as h3ll ain’t no empire.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:12 PM
*psst
Glug, glug, AHHHHH!
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:12 PM
Wearyman –
In that case, maybe I should have listened to my father and gussied up to the rich boy who lived in the big house down the road from us as a child. Ha.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:12 PM
GREENTURTLE,
Rudy or McCain either would make good CICs
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 9:12 PM
Guliani/ Tancredo? huh? He had the Tanc bust a move on illegal immigration?
lsutiger on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
What is the score on the game? I can’t get it ergo, the debate.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
Hunter looked silly on the Social Security question- he totally dodged it, instead talking about trade policy again.
Hollowpoint on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
This debate is going pretty fast
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
I SO miss Whataburger!!
Darksean on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
Hollowpoint on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
He said we fix the economic concerns by closing the trade deficit.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:14 PM
Is it legally possible now to remove yourself from the SS system?
lsutiger on October 21, 2007 at 9:14 PM
Spirit -
There’s another one! “Evil Empire”! *shudder*
Every time he says that, a kitten dies somewhere in the world. I’m convinced of it.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:14 PM
2-0 boston
sunny on October 21, 2007 at 9:14 PM
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM
2-0 Boston up
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:14 PM
still 2-0 top 3rd 2 out cle has a runner on first.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
lol or some angel loses their wings.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
GO SOX!!!
D2Boston on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
That’s killing me too 1776. If that’s the case, I’m still waiting for my royalty checks from our empire in post-war Japan and Germany. Repetition does not a true statement make Mr. Paul!
The Sandbox on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
Paul cried, kittens died!
Good debate tonight.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
Isutiger -
If you can figure out a way, let me know. I’ve got a long way to go and will probably waste a LOT of money otherwise.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
*takes my kitten out of the room quick*
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
But it doesn’t solve the problem. It was a dodge.
Hollowpoint on October 21, 2007 at 9:15 PM
runner on 2nd rather
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 9:16 PM
Thanks for the score all!
KGB – LOL
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:16 PM
Not a dodge. You just don’t agree that it would fix the problem.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:16 PM
Techno-
“Paul Cried, Kittens Died” – I smell a t-shirt! Who’s gonna buy one?
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:16 PM
2-0 Red Sox. Top of the 3rd 2 Out.
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:17 PM
Nobody. Paul doesn’t have a chance in hell.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:17 PM
GREENTURTLE,
Rudy or McCain either would make good CICs
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 9:12 PM
McCain who be awesome but he F-ed himself on amnesty and mccaine fiengold. But is right onj on the military and foreign policy. Good navy guy although an aairedale. :)
GREENTURTLE on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Johnny Mac is kicking some ass tonight.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
actually it could that was his point 100 billion trade deficit turned around would add to the revenue that is behind by less
CaptainObvious on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
I don’t follow baseball, but I heard that they paid a pretty penny getting that Japanese player pitching for Boston. He should win this game
lsutiger on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Got Him!!!!
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
That may be the only place he has a chance…
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
aegis freaking rock! although amphibs rule!
GREENTURTLE on October 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
How about dump the UN?
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:19 PM
He has not been performing all that well this season so their is a cause for concern.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 9:19 PM
Rudy wants to energize NATO by including Australia and Japan? Umm, okay whatever.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 9:19 PM
Second that!
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:19 PM
I want us to engage Russia. Russia is working against us in some places, but they do have some common interests with us…they’ve had their troubles with terrorism too.
Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 9:20 PM
Rudy: “Russher”
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 9:20 PM
Thank God for Australia! EXCELLENT ally!
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:20 PM
Hey, F15Mech:
I’m down in flight school right now to be a backseater (WSO) in the F15-E. You work on the E models at all?
The Sandbox on October 21, 2007 at 9:21 PM
Nailed Pelosi!
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Smack pelosi, Fred! Excellent!
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
A little late on the Pelosi tie-in, Fraud!
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Weak Fred, good jab at San Fran Nan though
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Woot Tanc!
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
My F5 button is getting abused tonight in this tread!
lsutiger on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Tom Tancredo hits a bullseye.
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Better Jab Tanc
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 9:22 PM
they shouldn’t ask Paul a question in this segment, since he tried to bring foreign policy in every other answer
jp on October 21, 2007 at 9:23 PM
Ron Paul: IMMEDIATE SURRENDER!
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:23 PM
Aaaaand they go to the loonie.
wearyman on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Notice he’s not referred to as “Dr. Paul”….
JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Oh God. Here goes Ron Paul. Hide your kittens.
flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Paul is an idiot.
jdkchem on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
you knew that was going to happen
CaptainObvious on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Invaded this country – ugh – would someone biotch slap that fool.
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
We need to talk with people and trade with them? Jebus this guy is an ass.
Drew on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
No the twit is getting booed – GOOD
jdkchem on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Hey Paul, the war has only just begun. Anyone that thinks it’s just going to go away isn’t paying attention.
More well-deserved boos. Idiot.
techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
And the BOOOOOOOS roll in!
This audience rocks.
BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 9:24 PM
More booo’s for Ron – HAHA
On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 9:25 PM
Ohh, boos for Ron. ha
conservnut on October 21, 2007 at 9:25 PM
Ron Paul: Run away!
bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 9:25 PM
The Turkey problem was foreseen by Powell and Cheney after the first Gulf War.
dedalus on October 21, 2007 at 9:25 PM
I was trained on them but never worked with them (sad to say).
The only time I touched an F15-E was when one IFE’ed into our base at Saudi.
The only thing similar between an F-15C and an F-15E is the name.
F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 9:26 PM
An asstwit? Sounds tweety birdish.
jdkchem on October 21, 2007 at 9:26 PM
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