Open thread: GOP debate, gloves off edition!

posted at 7:08 pm on October 21, 2007 by Allahpundit

8 p.m. ET on the Foxiest network in cable news. Desperate to drum up interest in another soundbite-go-round with a lackluster field in the midst of this interminable campaign, Chris Wallace took to hinting on Friday that this may be the debate where the bombs finally start to drop. He might be right: the “real Republican” brouhaha that began with Mitt and Rudy soon spilled over to McCain and then to Fred, so we’ll be seeing more skirmishes on that front tonight, I’m sure. Or rather, you’ll be seeing them: the big A’s priorities this evening lie elsewhere, but if you’re watching the debate and you see something clipworthy, I’d be grateful if you tipped us to it.

A few pre-game notes. First, remember how Rudy told the social cons that it’s better to be honest than pander by changing your positions? Well, forget it. Second, guess which candidate’s campaign will be liveblogging the debate tonight in Spanish. McCain’s, you say? Guess again. Third, Ron Paul’s quest to unite the dregs of American politics under one banner has taken an exciting new turn. Will Wallace or Brit Hume dare to ask him how and why he became the campaign’s resident freak magnet? All signs point to no. Finally, take heart in the fact that no matter how bad it gets, no matter how feebly the candidates perform, hope in this case does and will continue to spring eternal.

Sound off below if you’re tuned in. Or if you’re watching the game. Which is more important, really?


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Does Fox News have a stream link for this? My TV is a whole room away :|

mythicknight on October 21, 2007 at 7:12 PM

Desperate to drum up interest in another soundbite-go-round with a lackluster field in the midst of this interminable campaign

Allah
Sounds like you are supporting Hillary, or you may as well with your gloom and doom

KBird on October 21, 2007 at 7:14 PM

Go Steelers.

MikeZero on October 21, 2007 at 7:19 PM

Embrace the pessimism, baby. You’ll rarely go wrong.

Allahpundit on October 21, 2007 at 7:20 PM

Regardless of the intentions of voters, watch for this election to be the vote-fraud festival of all time.

bbz123 on October 21, 2007 at 7:21 PM

Anyone heard anything Huckabee’s had to say? He’s extremely well-spoken and has a lot of good things to say. Too bad he probably won’t make it past the primaries.

Le sigh.

flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 7:21 PM

…guess which candidate’s campaign will be liveblogging the debate tonight in Spanish. McCain’s, you say? Guess again.

dios mio.

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 7:21 PM

Well if its Fox news then its less likely we will Get Chrissy Matthews type questions and instead get real ones

William Amos on October 21, 2007 at 7:22 PM

Embrace the pessimism, baby. You’ll rarely go wrong.

Allahpundit on October 21, 2007 at 7:20 PM

Amen to that! Or whatever the atheists say.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on October 21, 2007 at 7:22 PM

Anyone heard anything Huckabee’s had to say?

Yes, he’s a nanny stater. In some ways he’s to the left of Giuliani.

Allahpundit on October 21, 2007 at 7:22 PM

And once again Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter will be by far the most conservative candidates on the stage but they’ll once again get ignored because they don’t fit the fancy MSM-driven template of what a ‘good’ Republican nominee ought to be. And the electorate will eat it all up.

2Brave2Bscared on October 21, 2007 at 7:22 PM

Huck isn’t raising a whole lotta cash lately either…

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 7:24 PM

Anyone heard anything Huckabee’s had to say?

Huckabee on Fox News Sunday

William Amos on October 21, 2007 at 7:24 PM

Anyone heard anything Huckabee’s had to say? He’s extremely well-spoken and has a lot of good things to say. Too bad he probably won’t make it past the primaries.

http://www.conservativesbetrayed.com/gw3/articles-latestnews/articles.php?CMSArticleID=2829&CMSCategoryID=19

http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/06/30/News/323746.html

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2006/05/mike_huckabee_is_a_liberal_a_c.php

2Brave2Bscared on October 21, 2007 at 7:27 PM

I suppose Rudy can promise to ban gay marriage in the Constitution all he wants, since the President has nothing to do with amending the Constitution. & given the success of Bush’s efforts to ban gay marriage, I’m not so sure that this anything proponents of gay marriage like myself should lose sleep over. I figure that the opponents of gay marriage have at most five years to get their filth into the Constitution before the younger voters with sane views overwhelm them. Right now, it doesn’t look real likely. Only a massive reaction to Democratic victory in 2008 would give it a chance, but the Senate would still be a tough obstacle.

thuja on October 21, 2007 at 7:27 PM

Man, I don’t want to miss the debate, but baseball man, baseball.

Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 7:27 PM

Tribe….oooops….this is the debate thread…

Headphones on debate, Samsung on the ALCS, wife sent shopping, fresh case in the fridge…..life is good.

Limerick on October 21, 2007 at 7:29 PM

Man, I don’t want to miss the debate, but baseball man, baseball.

Game 7 to boot.

2Brave2Bscared on October 21, 2007 at 7:30 PM

I think if Rudy or Mitt get the nod, Duncan Hunter will tie up the ‘far right’ that everyone claims won’t vote for a Romney or Giuliani ticket. I like Duncan a lot; originally I was interested in the Fair Tax, but reading more about it has turned me off. Flat tax it is. (No tax would be better, but how would the mil be able to buy its shiny bombs?)

Frontrunners on the whole have been a disappointment. I think there’s going to eventually be a backlash against anyone perceived as being too ‘polished’ or ‘political’; perhaps not this election, but the grassroots popularity of candidates like Tancredo and Hunter tell me that the general populace are a little tired of the mastubatory nature of politics today.

linlithgow on October 21, 2007 at 7:30 PM

Yes, he’s a nanny stater. In some ways he’s to the left of Giuliani.

Allahpundit on October 21, 2007 at 7:22 PM

Damn right he is, Huck seems like a nice guy, but his Nanny Statism and pro-Amnesty/Open Borders positions make him a no-go for Prez.

Bad Candy on October 21, 2007 at 7:30 PM

thuja on October 21, 2007 at 7:27 PM

Has Rudy actually said he would “ban” gay marriage? Or that he wouldn’t push for gay marriage?

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 7:31 PM

I’ll be watching Game 7 (GO SOX!) I jumped off the Fred! Wagon some time ago. Another Mitt and Rudy rumble. Same as it ever was.

kiakjones on October 21, 2007 at 7:35 PM

This is Fred’s chance to shine! He flubs this, it’s all downhill.

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 7:37 PM

mmmmm, that last link was delicious.

BadgerHawk on October 21, 2007 at 7:39 PM

Now that the family values straw poll is out, how much do you want to bet the dimocraps will try and convince the conservatives they are “Christian” and deserve the family value votes? Dimocraps are to family values as Murtha is to a Marine, a truther is to the truth, as Pelosi is “for the children”, as public schools are to education, as Reid is to Timothy, as Gerald-who is to journalism…… a joke.

On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 7:41 PM

And once again Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter will be by far the most conservative candidates on the stage but they’ll once again get ignored because they don’t fit the fancy MSM-driven template of what a ‘good’ Republican nominee ought to be. And the electorate will eat it all up.

Tancredo will be ignored because he’s a single-issue guy who sometimes seems afraid of the stage.

Hunter’s inability to find a base of support, on the other hand, is odd. He’s a well-spoken conservative. I hope should a Republican win next year, he be considered for Secretary of Defense or Homeland Security. Something to raise his visibility.

Slublog on October 21, 2007 at 7:42 PM

Oh, and COWBOYS!

Slublog on October 21, 2007 at 7:42 PM

ANy predictions…right now…exactly who will “win” the cell phone text vote of “who won the debate tonight?”

The Paul Patrol is at the ready I’m sure…

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Slublog on October 21, 2007 at 7:42 PM

I’ll agree with that, the only thing I can figure is that he doesn’t have a strong presence, he speaks well, he has okay energy, I think the fact that he’s isn’t high profile.

Bad Candy on October 21, 2007 at 7:45 PM

Wouldn’t that be funny – Ron Paul winning the test in vote? Like doing a YouTube debate.

On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 7:46 PM

Fraud! is going on Fox News?

Good Game, Fraud! You won’t be outwitting Brit Hume with your rapier southern folksisms like you did Sissy Chrissy Matthews.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 7:47 PM

Fred is the hands-down winner.

VolMagic on October 21, 2007 at 7:48 PM

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Well that’s not a fun wager…s’too easy.

I’d go with, what percent does Ron Paul win with, or will someone else win over him in the text vote, and who? I’ll guess RonPaul wins with 72% of the text/phone vote.

Bad Candy on October 21, 2007 at 7:48 PM

Allahpundit. Reading your post, for a minute I wasn’t sure if I was on Hot Air or the Daliy Kos . This must be an attempt by you to manufacture a controversy on what may you consider a slow day. Or maybe you are just doing your best impression of Joe Scarborough “the conservative”.
Then again, maybe your are just under the weather.
Get well soon.

RMR on October 21, 2007 at 7:49 PM

Whats with Frank Luntz?

Why is he always trapped in a small room with “representative voters”?

He couldn’t parlay his WH stint into something grander than a time-filler for Fox News debates?

VolMagic on October 21, 2007 at 7:50 PM

AP –

Who do you like in the game tonight?

It is going to be a tough game, either way.

nailinmyeye on October 21, 2007 at 7:51 PM

I’m sorry… is there some sort of sporting event going on?

Do people really watch baseball?

VolMagic on October 21, 2007 at 7:56 PM

Skelator does not think Ron Paul is insane or HillBilly is not a socialist. Should we expect different from the liberals? A whole room thinks she is but liberals will NOT listen – just deny!

On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 7:56 PM

Does Fox News have a stream link for this? My TV is a whole room away :|

mythicknight on October 21, 2007 at 7:12 PM

Stream link (though I can’t get it to work).

steveegg on October 21, 2007 at 7:56 PM

I’ll agree with others, I think this may be a make or break for Fred…note I say may, maybe he can keep a stable position, but I think this might have to be the one where he makes a big move.

Bad Candy on October 21, 2007 at 7:58 PM

Hmmm….

Option 1: Watch the Debate and still see half the Red Sox Game, watching Fred crumble and stutter against his intellectual superiors.

Option 2: Watch the entirety of the game and miss out on Fred’s crumbling.

Ima go with Option 1.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 7:59 PM

VolMagic on October 21, 2007 at 7:56 PM

Can’t stand sports on TV…

Bad Candy on October 21, 2007 at 7:59 PM

I’ll be watching Game 7 (GO SOX!)…

Another Mitt and Rudy rumble. Same as it ever was.

kiakjones on October 21, 2007 at 7:35 PM

Exactly

Game 7 of the 2007 ALCS only occurs once. Politicians arguing…that is an everyday thing.

F15Mech on October 21, 2007 at 8:00 PM

Here we go…

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:01 PM

Woot, woot Huckabee with the applause…

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:02 PM

Does Fox News have a stream link for this? My TV is a whole room away :|

mythicknight on October 21, 2007 at 7:12 PM

Yes , link is on foxnews.com main page.

“Getcha popcorn ready”

taterblade on October 21, 2007 at 8:03 PM

Oh Gawd, they are starting with the attack ads. This is going to be AWESOME.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:04 PM

Oh boy, Rudy’s doing his Mohamed Ali impersonation already, “I am the greatest executive ever!”

Drew on October 21, 2007 at 8:05 PM

Is George Will’s quote the only quote he can come up with, this is the 5th time I’ve heard him use it.

bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 8:05 PM

Fox has live streaming

http://www.foxnews.com/

William Amos on October 21, 2007 at 8:05 PM

Mitt’s trying out a ‘superman’ dangling lock of hair tonight. ;)

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:05 PM

Mitt’s got that superman curl…

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:05 PM

It’s 6 degrees of Fred tonight

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 8:05 PM

jinx techno

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:06 PM

@ Allah, etc…

Thanks for the links and the additional info. I only heard him briefly on Glenn Beck Friday evening. Will have to do a bit more research on this one, I suppose.

flyawaybird on October 21, 2007 at 8:06 PM

Mitt’s sporting the casual ‘doo – can’t look too polished.

taterblade on October 21, 2007 at 8:06 PM

Romney’s hair is not as perfect as it usually is. Was that planned?

Complete7 on October 21, 2007 at 8:06 PM

jinx techno

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:06 PM

Great minds and all that… ;)

Fred!’s first zinger.

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

Ron Paul for Siege Balloon warden!

Gotta trap those Fokker D-7′s, right Ron!

I think he’s wavering on The Age of Sail versus Steam, though.

profitsbeard on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

Fred…one liners ahoy!

CTDeLude on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

good crack by Fred

bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

Fred with the Ted Kennedy shot…always a crowd pleaser.

Drew on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

Nice jokin thar Fred, I can see it now: “Fred Thompson called Ted Kennedy a person of girth! HE’S FINISHED!”

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

OK, Fred’s already lookin’ good….much better than last time

JetBoy on October 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM

And Fred runs outta time.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:08 PM

Yep. Gloves are off.

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:08 PM

the hosts are going to have to get ahold of the crowd and get them to not clap

bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 8:08 PM

I agree bnelson44….

CTDeLude on October 21, 2007 at 8:09 PM

And Rudy turns it around.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:09 PM

tort reform or free abortions? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

sorry rudy…you lost this one

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:09 PM

Don’t ask Fred to talk fast, the drawl prevents him from doing so.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:09 PM

Fred’s doing well tonight.

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:10 PM

I agree sonny

On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 8:11 PM

Executive responsibility gauntlet thrown. SLAP!

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:11 PM

I know we’re just starting, but Rudy’s getting his ass kicked so far.

This one might be a slobber knocker

DwnSouthJukin on October 21, 2007 at 8:11 PM

Respect ya, John. Just not going to vote for you.

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:11 PM

Go Chris Wallace!………make em smack each other!

Limerick on October 21, 2007 at 8:11 PM

mccain’s not engaging

bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 8:12 PM

WAKE UP MCAIN! sounds like he’s on ‘ludes

taterblade on October 21, 2007 at 8:12 PM

Yeah, Chris always does a great job.

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:12 PM

Gloves are really off this time, at least so far.

P. James Moriarty on October 21, 2007 at 8:12 PM

I have led for patriotism

New McCain bumper sticker

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:12 PM

So far Fred is the only one to directly answer a question.

PHKing on October 21, 2007 at 8:13 PM

This debate is already more fun.

CTDeLude on October 21, 2007 at 8:13 PM

Whuups! Mitt’s superman lock is gone now. Where was the phone booth? ;)

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:13 PM

Oops – McCain

taterblade on October 21, 2007 at 8:13 PM

Mitt has major props for McCain, good call.

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:13 PM

Mitt seems squishy tonight

Limerick on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

Chris: Gov Romney, could you kick Ron Paul’s ass?

Mitt: I come from a liberal state, we don’t solve our problems in such a way

sunny on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

These is red meat so rare it’s still attached to the cow.

Drew on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

Oh Snap!!!!

McCain just gave Mitt the pimp hand…. way strong

VolMagic on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

I would like to point out that in only the first 10 minutes, Chris Wallace has shown himself to be the best interviewer (is that the right word?) Ive seen in any of these debates.

DwnSouthJukin on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

Whereas McCain is going all-out attack dog…

BKennedy on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

Nice line McCain. They are going after each other tonight!

Spirit of 1776 on October 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM

They seem to be ignoring all the lower tier candidates.

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:15 PM

Rudy should just go and watch the game. He is getting his hind end kicked all over the stage.

On-my-soap-box on October 21, 2007 at 8:15 PM

Whoa! Mitt stood up for W!

techno_barbarian on October 21, 2007 at 8:16 PM

Romney should drop it, he is losing this one.

bnelson44 on October 21, 2007 at 8:16 PM

I cant help but like McCain personally when I see him. He’s very grandfatherly and I respect the hell out of him for his service. I cant seem to see myself voting for him though.

Dash on October 21, 2007 at 8:16 PM

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